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2013 Broncos, Best Offense Ever? (1 Viewer)

fantasycurse42

fantasycurse42

Footballguy Jr.
I know, we are only 3 games into the season, but this should be addressed...

I mean, I thought the 19-0 Pats had the best offense of all time, but this Bronco team is even more stacked...

Brady/Manning = scratch

Moss/Thomas = Moss

Wes/welker = scratch

Sammy Morris, maroney, kFaulk/moreno, Hillman, ball = scratch

D stallworth / Decker = Decker

B Watson / Thomas = Thomas

I'm not a Bronco fan by any means, but I don't think anyone can stop this offense. Talent everywhere and one of the best QBs of all time leading the charge... Maybe a rainy day in Seattle, but that's not where the SB will be.

 
they might be in the conversation by the time this is all over.

But for right now, that 19-0 Pats team at their absolute peak played more dominant football than I've ever seen. Moss was so filthy that year... Brady was just sick.

But we'll see how Peyton makes this thing go.

You are looking at a team that without a fluke Baltimore play probably would be the defending super bowl champions.

 
Did it to the defending SB champs too - The Raiders defense isn't awful either, middle of the pack... There is just no stopping this offense.

We'll revisit in like weeks 7-9.

No question that Peyton breaks just about every single season QB record this year.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Did it to the defending SB champs too - The Raiders defense isn't awful either, middle of the pack... There is just no stopping this offense.

We'll revisit in like weeks 7-9.

No question that Peyton breaks just about every single season QB record this year.
Click to expand...
well of course there's a question... Brady and Brees have set those marks high, and any player is one hit away from missing time, or dying

 
Dentist said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Did it to the defending SB champs too - The Raiders defense isn't awful either, middle of the pack... There is just no stopping this offense.

We'll revisit in like weeks 7-9.

No question that Peyton breaks just about every single season QB record this year.
Click to expand...
well of course there's a question... Brady and Brees have set those marks high, and any player is one hit away from missing time, or dying
Click to expand...
Okay, agreed... But the odds have to be even money on 50 TDs at best & a little under even for like 5500 yards. There is just too much talent around him.

 
I actually think the Rams had a better offense: Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Proehl and Az-Hakim or 2005 Colts with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark were superior..

 
Records are there to be broken, so there's no harm anticipating things imo. This Broncos O is pretty insane and a lot of fun to watch.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
Dentist said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Did it to the defending SB champs too - The Raiders defense isn't awful either, middle of the pack... There is just no stopping this offense.

We'll revisit in like weeks 7-9.

No question that Peyton breaks just about every single season QB record this year.
Click to expand...
well of course there's a question... Brady and Brees have set those marks high, and any player is one hit away from missing time, or dying
Click to expand...
Okay, agreed... But the odds have to be even money on 50 TDs at best & a little under even for like 5500 yards. There is just too much talent around him.
Click to expand...
i'm interested in that action

 
Dentist said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Dentist said:
fantasycurse42 said:
Did it to the defending SB champs too - The Raiders defense isn't awful either, middle of the pack... There is just no stopping this offense.

We'll revisit in like weeks 7-9.

No question that Peyton breaks just about every single season QB record this year.
Click to expand...
well of course there's a question... Brady and Brees have set those marks high, and any player is one hit away from missing time, or dying
Click to expand...
Okay, agreed... But the odds have to be even money on 50 TDs at best & a little under even for like 5500 yards. There is just too much talent around him.
Click to expand...
i'm interested in that action
Click to expand...
Ill take the over on 50 TDs - deep down inside he wants that one too...

 
Ilov80s said:
I actually think the Rams had a better offense: Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Proehl and Az-Hakim or 2005 Colts with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark were superior..
Click to expand...
the Rams were better. So were the '84 Dolphins.

But the rules have softened up the passing game CONSIDERABLY over the years... and are protecting QB's from injury a lot more... so the stats rise.

This is doing to passing statistics what the steroid era did to HR totals in baseball.

Dan Marino would ejaculate in his pants if he could have his prime during this era of passing.... you really think these modern guys are really better than Dan or Joe? They aren't.. but the era is SOFT

 
The rules have so completely changed that I wouldn't even begin to put them in the category of best ever for these 3 games.

The 1996 Packers were scoring just like this back when the rules were different and the league was not seeing these kind of passing numbers. Actually they were more dominant and impressive after the first 3 games. 2007 Patriots and Rams w/Warner are clearly better.

At the end of the season maybe they'll be in the conversation. They are very fun to watch. But they haven't come close to proving that they are historically special.

 
Johnny Blood said:
The rules have so completely changed that I wouldn't even begin to put them in the category of best ever for these 3 games.

The 1996 Packers were scoring just like this back when the rules were different and the league was not seeing these kind of passing numbers. Actually they were more dominant and impressive after the first 3 games. 2007 Patriots and Rams w/Warner are clearly better.

At the end of the season maybe they'll be in the conversation. They are very fun to watch. But they haven't come close to proving that they are historically special.
Click to expand...
Manning through 3, pretty amazing...

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I know, we are only 3 games into the season, but this should be addressed...

I mean, I thought the 19-0 Pats had the best offense of all time, but this Bronco team is even more stacked...

Brady/Manning = scratch

Moss/Thomas = Moss

Wes/welker = scratch

Sammy Morris, maroney, kFaulk/moreno, Hillman, ball = scratch

D stallworth / Decker = Decker

B Watson / Thomas = Thomas

I'm not a Bronco fan by any means, but I don't think anyone can stop this offense. Talent everywhere and one of the best QBs of all time leading the charge... Maybe a rainy day in Seattle, but that's not where the SB will be.
Click to expand...
3 games in, it appears the difference between 2013 Broncos and 2005 Patriots is defense - 2013 Broncos have allowed more points. if there is a ***** in the armor, it's letting teams scratch their way back in and keeping games closer than they need to be - not that a 16 point lead is close, but this really should have been 37-7.

Of course, I expect that to tighten up when the Broncos best two defensive players are on the field.

 
The question for Defensove coordinators is how do you stop them? You can't double everybody and Manning will exploit the mismatch....

 
They look great.

Just don't forget that Forehead can't win outside in the cold in January. Another great regular season, another choke job in the playoffs for Forehand. Bank on it.

 
Too early to tell, but they will be in the conversation.

However, if I am the 4th WR for any team in history, this is the one I'd want to play for.

 
KingPrawn said:
ImTheScientist said:
Stop it. The Raiders make everyone look like the best ever. Its week 3.
Click to expand...
Choosing to ignore week 1 & 2?
Click to expand...
Week 3 was a different situation. Weeks 1 & 2, they were the Denver Broncos with their best offensive lineman, and the one who protects the franchise from competent defenders, on the field. Week 3, they didn't have him -- and won't moving forward -- but didn't play against competent defenders. They're about to enter uncharted territory.

Happily, next week they play the Eagles. :)

But they've got two games coming up against KC with Houston and Hali blowing up O's right now...against Belichick, who is going to gameplan around Clady's absence...against Houston...against Dallas, who at a minimum, has some aggressive pass rushers.

They've definitely got the weapons to be in this conversation, but I'm not sure they've got the protection to see it through. Nothing's going to take away the start they've had, but this team moving forward isn't going to be the same team that set those records, except when they play bottom feeders.

I don't think they'll be bumblers against the KC's of the world, I just don't think the sledding will look nearly as smooth, crippled as they are with Clady's absence. Especially when you take into consideration that the full D is going to be healthy/on the field for the first time soon. Once that happens, I don't think they'll put Peyton in harm's way often enough to challenge any records. I think they'd be foolish to do so.

 
It is a bit of an oranges and apples comparison because the rules are so different right now.

At the time, I thought the "greatest show on turf" was the most brilliant thing I had ever seen because it was truly revolutionary in what they were doing under the existing OLD rules. That cast of players in todays game would be better than the Broncos today simply because Faulk trumps anything the Broncos have, sans Manning.

The Patriots were electric, but also played in that slightly different era.

I can't imagine what guys like Marino, Randall Cunningham, Joe Montana, etc would have done in today's game. Can your mind even begin to grasp what Montana, JERRY RICE, Taylor, Craig, etc would have done in their prime? Jerry Rice would probably have broken Fantasy football models and rules because of the advantage gap.

Anyway, I enjoy what we have, now and in the present and its pretty brilliant. One thing is for certain: fantasy owners with Broncos players have a distinct advantage this year. Hopefully you have those players on contending teams.

 
On Sportscenter after the game last night, Dilfer had a fascinating insight. On the TD to Welker, Peyton started going through his audibles and gestured out to Welker by smashing his wrists together 4 or 5 times. According to Dilfer, that's the universal signal for a corner route.

Woodson sees it, gestures to his teammates that he's playing the corner route. Welker starts his route, fakes the corner route and then cuts it to the post where he's totally uncovered for an uncontested TD.

They intentionally tricked Woodson into abandoning his underneath coverage responsibility, knowing he would see the hand signal and probably play a corner route.

That's some real next level stuff - doing a fake hand signal that you want to be intercepted to open up the play you really want to run. I was impressed.

 
fantasycurse42 said:
I know, we are only 3 games into the season, but this should be addressed...

I mean, I thought the 19-0 Pats had the best offense of all time, but this Bronco team is even more stacked...

Brady/Manning = scratch

Moss/Thomas = Moss

Wes/welker = scratch

Sammy Morris, maroney, kFaulk/moreno, Hillman, ball = scratch

D stallworth / Decker = Decker

B Watson / Thomas = Thomas

I'm not a Bronco fan by any means, but I don't think anyone can stop this offense. Talent everywhere and one of the best QBs of all time leading the charge... Maybe a rainy day in Seattle, but that's not where the SB will be.
Click to expand...
are you kidding me.. Not the best offense ever good lord this is funny stuff man.

 
Manning is the greatest Regular season, dome qb of all time.... playoffs... that's another story my friends....I would take the 99 rams, 04 colts, 07 pats and 11 saints, Packers over this den team goin now but they are still special for sure...

 
T with T said:
Manning is the greatest Regular season, dome qb of all time.... playoffs... that's another story my friends....I would take the 99 rams, 04 colts, 07 pats and 11 saints, Packers over this den team goin now but they are still special for sure...
Click to expand...
99 Rams played 5 games outside, none in the postseason, and lost 2 of them

04 Colts played 7 games outside, lost 4 of them, including playoffs

11 Saints played 6 games outside, lost 3 of them, including playoffs

My point is only that a lot of the "best offenses" played most of their games in a gym. Makes what Rodgers and Brady do look all the more amazing.

Matt Ryan is another guy who looks like an All-Pro, except for the 1 or 2 games a year when he has to play in any kind of elements. Even his regular season games at Carolina and TB are not exactly in bad weather.

 
They'll certainly look that way up until the bye week, given the schedule (Philly, Dallas, Jax, Indy and Skins looks pretty tasty).

Post-bye might be some rough sledding though:

at SD

KC

at NE

at KC

Tenn

That's a potentially tough 5 week stretch against some improved defenses.

 
massraider said:
Whatever the best offense ever is, it's not going to have that left tackle and those RBs on it.
Click to expand...
The left tackle thing is a concern; the loss of Clady will be felt. In fact, it already was last night on the play where Clark got beat and the pass rusher caused Peyton to fumble. The Broncos won't move the ball so effortlessly against teams that can generate a pass rush. They will still be highly effective, but they won't be going down the field on possession after possession against those teams.

 
Kool-Aid Larry said:
I'm not saying manning won't break the record, but after 8 weeks 2007 brady was on pace for 64 td.
Click to expand...
For some perspective, Manning needs to average 3 TDs per game the rest of the way to break the record. I'd say he has about a 40% chance of that, personally.

 
Dentist said:
But for right now, that 19-0 Pats team at their absolute peak played more dominant football than I've ever seen. Moss was so filthy that year... Brady was just sick.
Click to expand...
The what? Is this an inside joke or something?

 
massraider said:
Whatever the best offense ever is, it's not going to have that left tackle and those RBs on it.
Click to expand...
This.

Don't get me wrong, I think this may be one of the best passing offenses in a long time - primarily because you have one of the best QBs of all time with some extremely talented players at each receiving position. If he and his o-line can hold up, the passing numbers should be record breaking this season.

For those stating the defenses will adjust, I really can't see a way for them to stop this offense. Which WR do you double? Manning simply notices the coverages and goes to someone else with the ball. The issue isn't that there haven't been teams with as talented #1 or #2 receiving options - it's that Denver's #3 and #4 options are as good as some teams top options. Welker is a great example - on NE, he was, if not their #1 receiving option, than their second behind Gronk. But Manning has D. Thomas, Decker and J. Thomas. Even if you shut down 2 or even 3 of their options, the 4th (whoever it is) is still a great, if not elite talent at their respective position. Not too many passing offense can say that.

 
DoubleG said:
massraider said:
Whatever the best offense ever is, it's not going to have that left tackle and those RBs on it.
Click to expand...
This.

Don't get me wrong, I think this may be one of the best passing offenses in a long time - primarily because you have one of the best QBs of all time with some extremely talented players at each receiving position. If he and his o-line can hold up, the passing numbers should be record breaking this season.

For those stating the defenses will adjust, I really can't see a way for them to stop this offense. Which WR do you double? Manning simply notices the coverages and goes to someone else with the ball. The issue isn't that there haven't been teams with as talented #1 or #2 receiving options - it's that Denver's #3 and #4 options are as good as some teams top options. Welker is a great example - on NE, he was, if not their #1 receiving option, than their second behind Gronk. But Manning has D. Thomas, Decker and J. Thomas. Even if you shut down 2 or even 3 of their options, the 4th (whoever it is) is still a great, if not elite talent at their respective position. Not too many passing offense can say that.
Click to expand...
This is my exact point... There is too much talent and a guy who will identify the mismatch - It almost seems unstoppable.

 
Dentist said:
Ilov80s said:
I actually think the Rams had a better offense: Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Proehl and Az-Hakim or 2005 Colts with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark were superior..
Click to expand...
the Rams were better. So were the '84 Dolphins.

But the rules have softened up the passing game CONSIDERABLY over the years... and are protecting QB's from injury a lot more... so the stats rise.

This is doing to passing statistics what the steroid era did to HR totals in baseball.

Dan Marino would ejaculate in his pants if he could have his prime during this era of passing.... you really think these modern guys are really better than Dan or Joe? They aren't.. but the era is SOFT
Click to expand...
I don't think the era is soft, these guys play as hard or are in better shape than ever. The rules had to change because guys are so in shape they'll kill each other under the same rules. You are correct, the passing stats have gone way up and that is due to rule changes...Dan Marino would pass for 5500 yards in his prime with 50 tds. Joe Montana would....win, the only stat that really matters.

I don't look at it as a soft era, they're all just crazy strong and changes needed to be made. I don't agree with all of the rule changes, only the ones that impact player safety.

 
massraider said:
Whatever the best offense ever is, it's not going to have that left tackle and those RBs on it.
Click to expand...
Absolutely. This Denver team may go on to be the best statistical team but come on.....the Rbs are average and those are pretty big pieces to the puzzle.

 
Rick James said:
99 Rams. Honestly I don't think it's close.
Click to expand...
Please unpack this - position to position. Outside of RB, I think almost every Bronco counterpart is a better talent.

Manning > Warner

WRs? D. Thomas, Decker and Welker VS. Bruce, Holt and Proehl. Thomas and Decker are easily both bigger than Bruce and Holt. Holt was the fastest of he and Bruce - but DT ran the same 40 time - and is 4" taller and 25 lbs bigger than Holt. Don't get me wrong Bruce and Holt are great WRs - but I think time will show that D. Thomas and Decker (to a lesser extent) is right there with them....if not better. Welker is one of the best slot receivers in the game right now - and obviously better than Proehl.

Obviously Faulk gets the nod over - well, anyone not named "LT2"

J. Thomas is obviously more of receiving threat than...Ernie Conwell? Chad Lewis? I don't even know who you want to go with here.

Granted, it's not fair to compare eras - Thomas and Decker are bigger - and just as fast because they have to be. That's how the game has changed. And TE is also a bigger part of the passing game. But I hardly think it's a given that it's the Rams. In fact I would suggest that it's not. The edge at TE and QB imho, outweighs the RB advantage - and I think WR is close to a wash.

 
I think the distance between Bruce and Decker is at least as big as the distance between Welker and Proehl. And I think the distance between Orlando Pace and Clady's backup is going to end up being significantly bigger than that.

 
Dentist said:
Ilov80s said:
I actually think the Rams had a better offense: Warner, Faulk, Bruce, Holt, Proehl and Az-Hakim or 2005 Colts with Manning, James, Harrison, Wayne, Stokely and Clark were superior..
Click to expand...
the Rams were better. So were the '84 Dolphins.

But the rules have softened up the passing game CONSIDERABLY over the years... and are protecting QB's from injury a lot more... so the stats rise.

This is doing to passing statistics what the steroid era did to HR totals in baseball.

Dan Marino would ejaculate in his pants if he could have his prime during this era of passing.... you really think these modern guys are really better than Dan or Joe? They aren't.. but the era is SOFT
Click to expand...
New Orleans Saints? They did break the Rams record after all with 7,474 yards of offense in regular season.

That record still belongs to the New Orleans Saints.

"The Greatest Show on Turf" was the nickname for the St. Louis Rams' record-breaking offense during the 1999, 2000, and 2001 National Football League seasons. The offense was designed by attack oriented offensive coordinator Mike Martz who advocated mixing both an aerial attack and run offense. The Rams' offense during these three seasons produced a largess of scoring, accrued yardage, threeNFL MVP honors, and one Super Bowl title for the 1999 season.
  • The offense was attuned to getting all five receivers out into patterns that stretched the field, setting up defensive backs with route technique, and the quarterback delivering to a spot on time where the receiver could make the catch and turn upfield. Frequent pre-snap motion and shifting were staples of the system, often including shifts to or from empty backfield formations or bunch formations. Pass protection was critical to its success. At least two of the five receivers would run a deep in, skinny post, comeback, speed out, or shallow cross pattern, and running backs would often run quick rail routes out of the backfield. Screens, draws, and play action passes were often used to slow the opponent's pass rush. Mike Martz credits the offensive system as being originally catalyzed by Sid Gillman and then refined at San Diego State by Don Coryell, who later transmitted his system to the NFL. Martz learned the Coryell 3-digit system from offensive coordinator Ernie Zampese when both coached for the Rams under Chuck Knox from 1994-96. Using this offense, the Rams set a new NFL record for total offensive yards in 2000, with an astonishing 7,335 yards (since broken by the New Orleans Saints with 7,474). Of those, 5,492 were passing yards, also a new NFL team record.
Click to expand...
 
Last edited by a moderator:
fantasycurse42 said:
I know, we are only 3 games into the season, but this should be addressed...

I mean, I thought the 19-0 Pats had the best offense of all time, but this Bronco team is even more stacked...

Brady/Manning = scratch

Moss/Thomas = Moss

Wes/welker = scratch

Sammy Morris, maroney, kFaulk/moreno, Hillman, ball = scratch

D stallworth / Decker = Decker

B Watson / Thomas = Thomas

I'm not a Bronco fan by any means, but I don't think anyone can stop this offense. Talent everywhere and one of the best QBs of all time leading the charge... Maybe a rainy day in Seattle, but that's not where the SB will be.
Click to expand...
offensive line - NE

Younger Welker / Older Welker - Younger Welker

 
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