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2013 Broncos, Best Offense Ever? (1 Viewer)

I know, we are only 3 games into the season, but this should be addressed...

I mean, I thought the 19-0 Pats had the best offense of all time, but this Bronco team is even more stacked...

Brady/Manning = scratch

Moss/Thomas = Moss

Wes/welker = scratch

Sammy Morris, maroney, kFaulk/moreno, Hillman, ball = scratch

D stallworth / Decker = Decker

B Watson / Thomas = Thomas

I'm not a Bronco fan by any means, but I don't think anyone can stop this offense. Talent everywhere and one of the best QBs of all time leading the charge... Maybe a rainy day in Seattle, but that's not where the SB will be.
offensive line - NEYounger Welker / Older Welker - Younger Welker
I'd almost say older Welker with all the RZ targets.

 
To be fair they played the Ravens, Giants, Raiders and Eagles. Not exactly the strongest schedule. Whats their combined record? 4-12?
Have you seen the rest of the schedule? I see 1 loss, maybe 2, and that's just because they may bench Peyton at the end of the season.
The thread title is "best offense ever" not "very good offense with the weakest schedule ever"

 
To be fair they played the Ravens, Giants, Raiders and Eagles. Not exactly the strongest schedule. Whats their combined record? 4-12?
Have you seen the rest of the schedule? I see 1 loss, maybe 2, and that's just because they may bench Peyton at the end of the season.
The thread title is "best offense ever" not "very good offense with the weakest schedule ever"
Yeah, they are just "very good". Lol. They demolish everything in their path and put up 40 plus every week.

 
best. offense. ever.
Not that hard when you are playing the worst defense ever.
It's amazing how lucky Denver is... To get to play the worst defense ever... every week. So unfair.
Agreed. To take anything away from what manning and the broncos are doing this season BC of schedule is ludicrous.

Baltimore d is actually really good. Look at what they've done since game 1.

Oakland d is no pushover either. Philly and the giants are bad.

But still? It really doesn't matter who the defense is. There is not a single defense in the nfl (even the Seahawks) that can cover demaryius thomas, decker, welker, and Julius thomas and keep all of them quiet all game. With Peyton and his weapons carving up defenses like a surgeon and with how fast he gets the ball out of his hands, they are literally unstoppable.

 
To be fair they played the Ravens, Giants, Raiders and Eagles. Not exactly the strongest schedule. Whats their combined record? 4-12?
Have you seen the rest of the schedule? I see 1 loss, maybe 2, and that's just because they may bench Peyton at the end of the season.
The thread title is "best offense ever" not "very good offense with the weakest schedule ever"
Yeah, they are just "very good". Lol. They demolish everything in their path and put up 40 plus every week.
And they are far from one dimensional as originally thought after week 1. Their run game has come together really nicely. Drop back and try to cover the receivers and they have proven that they'll hash you on the ground.

The most potent offense I've ever watched. More than the 2007 pats. More talent.

I'd take demaryius over moss any day. Moss was a one trick pony. Speed, height, great hands...a deep ball specialist.

Thomas is a specimen. Deep ball specialist, tremendous athlete, powerful, boxes out defenders, high points catches, rear hands, the ability to consistently turn simple wr screens into huge gains. Ability to consistently beat double teams. Just a monster.

Welker might e the best slot receiver the nfl has ever seen.

Decker could be a wr1 on most nfl teams.

Julius thomas is a beast of a te.

It's just awe inspiring to watch. It's not even fair. It's like college kids playing backyard football with their 5 year old kid cousins.

 
Arwald said:
ang12 said:
Arwald said:
To be fair they played the Ravens, Giants, Raiders and Eagles. Not exactly the strongest schedule. Whats their combined record? 4-12?
Have you seen the rest of the schedule? I see 1 loss, maybe 2, and that's just because they may bench Peyton at the end of the season.
The thread title is "best offense ever" not "very good offense with the weakest schedule ever"
Short of TD coming out of retirement, I don't know how you could improve it.

 
I would say that they have a shot at being the best offenses ever. their punter will be most rested player on the team come playoff time.

 
It's funny how at least one of Denver's beat writers was calling it "trouble" after watching the Broncos trail early 14-0. It's clear he hasn't watched Manning for 14 years.

 
No love for the '98 Vikings??

QB - Cunningham - what Kaep is supposed to be

RB - Robert Smith - better than Moreno, Dillon, not as great as Marshall Faulk

WRs - Randy, Cris Carter, Jake Reed - I'd take this trio over any ever.

TE - weak here

O-line - numerous greats. Birk, McDaniel, Stringer, Steussie, Christy, Dixon - I'd take them over any

K - Gary Anderson - one of the best ever, only missed once that year

Never scored less than 24 pts. 50 plus plays >25 yards.

Yes, some of their records were broken, but they gotta be in the discussion.

 
PFT: Many records will fall if Broncos continue torrid pace

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2013/10/07/many-records-will-fall-if-broncos-continue-torrid-pace/

Its not exactly breaking news that Peyton Manning and the Broncos are piling up the yards and lighting up the scoreboard. But the Broncos are doing more than just playing good offense. Theyre racking up yards and points at a pace thats completely unprecedented in NFL history.

Weve gone through the NFL Record and Fact Book and identified six different offensive records that the Broncos are on pace to break this season, for points, touchdowns, first downs, passing first downs, total yards gained and fewest interceptions:

Points

Record: 589, Patriots, 2007

Broncos now: 230

Broncos pace: 736

Touchdowns

Record: 75, Patriots, 2007

Broncos now: 29

Broncos pace: 93

First downs

Record: 444, Patriots, 2012

Broncos now: 147

Broncos pace: 470

Passing first downs

Record: 280, Saints, 2011

Broncos now: 97

Broncos pace: 310

Yards gained

Record: 7,474, Saints, 2011

Broncos now: 2,449

Broncos pace: 7,837

Fewest interceptions

Record: 5, 1960 Browns, 1966 Packers, 1990 Chiefs, 1990 Giants, 2010 Patriots, 2011 49ers (six-way tie)

Broncos now: 1

Broncos pace: 3

Peyton Manning is also on pace to break the single-season records for passer rating, completions, completion percentage, passing yards, passing touchdowns, four-touchdown games, 400-yard games and 300-yard games:

Highest passer rating

Record: 122.5, Aaron Rodgers, 2011

Peyton Manning now: 136.4

Completions

Record: 468, Drew Brees, 2011

Peyton Manning now: 150

Peyton Manning pace: 480

Completion percentage

Record: 71.23, Drew Brees, 2011

Peyton Manning now: 75.8

Passing yards

Record: 5,476, Drew Brees, 2011

Peyton Manning now: 1,884

Peyton Manning pace: 6,029

Passing touchdowns

Record: 50, Tom Brady, 2007

Peyton Manning now: 20

Peyton Manning pace: 64

Most games, four or more touchdown passes

Record: 6, Dan Marino, 1984 and Peyton Manning, 2004 (tie)

Peyton Manning now: 3

Peyton Manning pace: 10

Most games, 400 or more yards passing

Record: 4, Dan Marino, 1984

Peyton Manning now: 2

Peyton Manning pace: 6

Most games, 300 or more yards passing

Record: 13, Drew Brees, 2011

Peyton Manning now: 5

Peyton Manning pace: 16

And the Broncos return man and kicker are on pace for a couple of special teams records:

Combined kick return touchdowns

Record: 6, Devin Hester, 2007

Trindon Holliday now: 2

Trindon Holliday pace: 6

Most extra points, season

Record: 74, Stephen Gostkowski, 2007

Matt Prater now: 29

Matt Prater pace: 93

It may not be realistic to think the Broncos will keep up this pace for a full season. Theyll face some good defenses, play some games in bad weather, and maybe rest their starters late in the season if they wrap up home-field advantage throughout the playoffs. But through five games, the Broncos arent just looking like a great offense. Theyre looking like the greatest offense in NFL history.

 
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.

 
Greatest I ever saw was the Rams from '99 to '01. I'm a Bronco fan, and I love our offense, but those Rams were amazing - for 3 straight years. On a good field I don't think they could be stopped in today's game, with today's rules. And when I say they could never be stopped - I almost mean it literally.

*Edited to add - when I say "a good field" I mean the Rams were very speedy and excelled on turf. On grass they were still great, but it wasn't quite the same as watching them on that rubber grass (turf sucked back in the day).

 
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after 13 games: 39.6 PPG, on pace for 634. 12 points ahead of '07 Patriots thru 13 games.

Broncos need to average 25 points per game over their next three games to set the all time NFL scoring record.

Denvers D seems to have regressed due to injuries. KC and NE are both in hot pursuit, so no reason for Broncos to take the foot off the gas.

 
Forgot about this thread - I don't know how to really "judge" best ever, but they're ducking awesome.

If we are going off of points, TDs, or longest field goal :lol: , I think they get there.

Certainly fun to watch & def in the debate.

 
I don't need to see any more. The answer is yes. They are getting better every week. Just awesome to watch.

 
Greatest I ever saw was the Rams from '99 to '01. I'm a Bronco fan, and I love our offense, but those Rams were amazing - for 3 straight years. On a good field I don't think they could be stopped in today's game, with today's rules. And when I say they could never be stopped - I almost mean it literally.

*Edited to add - when I say "a good field" I mean the Rams were very speedy and excelled on turf. On grass they were still great, but it wasn't quite the same as watching them on that rubber grass (turf sucked back in the day).
Truth

 
From 1960 to 2012, Denver scored 50 points just once (a 50-34 win back in 1964).

In 2013, Denver has scored 50+ points three times (52-20, 51-48, and 51-28).

 
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year

 
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Not real sure scoring the most points makes you the best offense ever with the rule changes. It helps, but unless they completely blow the doors off anyone else in history, it's only a small part of it.

That said, I would not say any other offense I have ever seen is better. I don't think this offense can be gameplanned for like some of the great offenses in the past could (to some degree, I don't mean those other great offenses could be stopped).

I don't remember any other team with as many excellent redzone threats, and obviously not to mention ####### Manning. Sure you can say Moreno is a weakness I guess, but the passing game is so strong that it really doesn't even matter.

 
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
I know you are fishing as usual, but to set the records straight, even though there is no such thing as running up the score in the NFL (I said the same thing back in 2007), the Broncos have not "ran up the score" on a single team this year. In their wins by more than two scores:

49-27 over the Ravens: they led by 15 when Peyton threw a WR screen to Demaryius Thomas that went for a long score to salt the game away. And the Ravens had scored 10 straight points prior to that to cut the lead to two scores, so the Broncos did not have the game won by any means until Thomas took that pass for a touchdown.

41-23 over the Giants: a punt return early in the 4th quarter stretched the Broncos lead from 15 to 22, and when the Giants cut it back to 15 with four minutes left, a FG shortly thereafter gave us the 18-point lead that held up as the final score.

52-20 over the Eagles: after going up by 29 late in the 3rd (and only an idiot thinks that pouring it on while still in the 3rd Q is running the score up), the Broncos only 4th quarter scores were a blocked punt for a score and a FG. In the 4th quarter, the Broncos ran the ball on 12 of their 16 offensive plays, and Peyton Manning didn't play a single snap in the 4th quarter.

45-21 over the Redskins: After going up by 17 with 6 1/2 minutes left, the Broncos only score after that was an INT return.

51-28 over the Titans: the Broncos never led by more than two scores until a Montee Ball score with three minutes that gave them a 23-point lead.

So, where exactly did they run the score up? That's what I thought.

 
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Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
When this year has Denver run up the score?

Edit: Ghost Rider beat me to it. Going for a touchdown with a 2-score lead is not running up the score in today's NFL. Teams can and frequently will score twice in a 5-minute span. And Denver has called off the dogs each and every time they've found themselves with a 3-score lead in the 4th.

 
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Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...

 
best. offense. ever.
Not that hard when you are playing the worst defense ever.
It's amazing how lucky Denver is... To get to play the worst defense ever... every week. So unfair.
Agreed. To take anything away from what manning and the broncos are doing this season BC of schedule is ludicrous.

Baltimore d is actually really good. Look at what they've done since game 1.

Oakland d is no pushover either. Philly and the giants are bad.

But still? It really doesn't matter who the defense is. There is not a single defense in the nfl (even the Seahawks) that can cover demaryius thomas, decker, welker, and Julius thomas and keep all of them quiet all game. With Peyton and his weapons carving up defenses like a surgeon and with how fast he gets the ball out of his hands, they are literally unstoppable.
Yet somehow the Colts and Patriots, two teams with lackluster defenses held them in check. Just for reference.

Are they the best offense ever? THe numbers seem to support it and I can tell you that the final 4 in my FF league is littered with Broncos players so you won't get an arguement from me.

 
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.

 
Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
Manning only has 1 game where he has multiple TD's in the 4th and that was week 1 when Thomas took a 2yd pass for like 80. He does have almost just as many pass attempts in the 4th as the 1st though. Most of their games are a lot closer going into the 4th then you might think.

ETA: Sorry I missed the Washington game where they were losing going into the 4th....He did have 3 that game

 
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I remember an old Rams team scoring crazy points. After checking, it was the 1959 Rams. They put up 466 points. The next highest was the New York Yanks, who scored 366. The Rams scored 27% more points than the next highest offense. I thought that was quite impressive. This Broncos team so far is eclipsing that. Has any other historical team outscored their next highest competitor as much as the 2013 Broncos?

 
Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
As I said, a 2-score lead is never safe in the NFL. Just look at Patriots/Browns from this past weekend for an extreme example- Cleveland scored to go up 26-14 with under 3 minutes remaining, and they still lost. So no, going for a touchdown when you've got a two-score lead is never "running up the score".

With that in mind, find me an example of a time Peyton Manning has thrown in the 4th quarter with a 3+ score lead, with the exception of short passes on 3rd down designed simply to convert and keep the clock running. Denver's modus operandi has been pretty clear this year- stake a 17+ point lead and then ride out the clock.

 
I remember an old Rams team scoring crazy points. After checking, it was the 1959 Rams. They put up 466 points. The next highest was the New York Yanks, who scored 366. The Rams scored 27% more points than the next highest offense. I thought that was quite impressive. This Broncos team so far is eclipsing that. Has any other historical team outscored their next highest competitor as much as the 2013 Broncos?
I'm not sure, but I do know that Denver has scored more points than the Jets and Jaguars combined. I also know that the difference between Denver and the #2 scoring offense (Seattle) is greater than the difference between Seattle and the #32 scoring offense (Jacksonville).

 
Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum......
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
Manning only has 1 game where he has multiple TD's in the 4th and that was week 1 when Thomas took a 2yd pass for like 80. He does have almost just as many pass attempts in the 4th as the 1st though. Most of their games are a lot closer going into the 4th then you might think.ETA: Sorry I missed the Washington game where they were losing going into the 4th....He did have 3 that game
to put a finer point on it, here's the data:

1. vs BAL: 2 TD passes in Q4

2. @ NYG: 1 TD pass early in Q4.

3. vs oak: 0 TD passes in Q4.

4. vs PHI: 0 TD passes in Q4.

5. @ DAL: 0 TD passes in Q4.

6. vs JAX: 0 TD passes in Q4.

7. @ IND: 1 TD pass in Q4.

8. vs WAS: 3 TD pass in Q4. (note: 1st TD pass was first play of Q4)

9. @ SD: 0 TD passes in Q4.

10: vs KC: 0 TD passes in Q4.

11: @ NE: 1 TD pass in Q4.

12. @ KC: 1 TD pass in Q4.

13: vs TEN: 1 TD pass in Q4.

so 10 TD passes in the 4th quarter, or 22%. it would actually be fair to claim Manning throws fewer TD passes in the 4th quarter than average.

We should also note that the Broncos were trailing at the time of 4 of these Q4 TD passes - 1 vs IND, 2 vs WAS and 1 vs NE. so really, only 6 of 45 TD passes were thrown while the Broncos had a 4th quarter lead.

 
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Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
As I said, a 2-score lead is never safe in the NFL. Just look at Patriots/Browns from this past weekend for an extreme example- Cleveland scored to go up 26-14 with under 3 minutes remaining, and they still lost. So no, going for a touchdown when you've got a two-score lead is never "running up the score".

With that in mind, find me an example of a time Peyton Manning has thrown in the 4th quarter with a 3+ score lead, with the exception of short passes on 3rd down designed simply to convert and keep the clock running. Denver's modus operandi has been pretty clear this year- stake a 17+ point lead and then ride out the clock.
As recently as last week, upp 44-28 with less than 8 minutes left in the game, in clear FG range and he attempts passes 7 times during the drive until they get down to the 5 and they hand it to Ball.

I'm not going to get into the analytical splitting of hairs on the intent of every play because there will be some of us that see it one way and others that see it another but if you are watching these games, from end to end, not just reading stats and compiling them, you get the sense that the Broncos are doing much more than just trying to end a game they are clearly in control of. You're up 16 with 7 and change. You are in FG range. Yet, you are throwing 13 and 16 and 18 yards down the field and stopping the clock on incompletions versus running (and your running game and kicking game are red hot) and allowing big chunks of time to come off the clock? Ok, we disagree but I grew up watching football when teams knew how to get the ball with 6-7 minutes left and that was it; game over.

But that's enough of that. Maybe Peyton is so smart that teams play the run at that point and he decides to check into the pass. If that's the case, the only thing I quesiton is the entire opposition's ability to do anything and Peyton's desire to throw in the intermediate range vs. very short passes that don't kill the clock.

At the end of the day, as much as I have watched Peyton Manning over the years I'll just say this: Don't let the Andy Griffith persona fool you. This guy is hyper-competitive and I know that in that head of his, he has an agenda for stats.

 
As recently as last week, upp 44-28 with less than 8 minutes left in the game, in clear FG range and he attempts passes 7 times during the drive until they get down to the 5 and they hand it to Ball.


I'm not going to get into the analytical splitting of hairs on the intent of every play because there will be some of us that see it one way and others that see it another but if you are watching these games, from end to end, not just reading stats and compiling them, you get the sense that the Broncos are doing much more than just trying to end a game they are clearly in control of. You're up 16 with 7 and change. You are in FG range. Yet, you are throwing 13 and 16 and 18 yards down the field and stopping the clock on incompletions versus running (and your running game and kicking game are red hot) and allowing big chunks of time to come off the clock? Ok, we disagree but I grew up watching football when teams knew how to get the ball with 6-7 minutes left and that was it; game over.

But that's enough of that. Maybe Peyton is so smart that teams play the run at that point and he decides to check into the pass. If that's the case, the only thing I quesiton is the entire opposition's ability to do anything and Peyton's desire to throw in the intermediate range vs. very short passes that don't kill the clock.

At the end of the day, as much as I have watched Peyton Manning over the years I'll just say this: Don't let the Andy Griffith persona fool you. This guy is hyper-competitive and I know that in that head of his, he has an agenda for stats.
:rolleyes:

Edit: You are absolutely right that Peyton was going for blood when up 44-28. He wanted to score there, not run out the clock. Which contradicts my claim that Peyton Manning goes for TDs when it's a two-score game and then lets off the gas when it's a three-score game... how, exactly? When last I checked, 44-28 is still a two-score game.

 
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Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
As I said, a 2-score lead is never safe in the NFL. Just look at Patriots/Browns from this past weekend for an extreme example- Cleveland scored to go up 26-14 with under 3 minutes remaining, and they still lost. So no, going for a touchdown when you've got a two-score lead is never "running up the score".

With that in mind, find me an example of a time Peyton Manning has thrown in the 4th quarter with a 3+ score lead, with the exception of short passes on 3rd down designed simply to convert and keep the clock running. Denver's modus operandi has been pretty clear this year- stake a 17+ point lead and then ride out the clock.
As recently as last week, upp 44-28 with less than 8 minutes left in the game, in clear FG range and he attempts passes 7 times during the drive until they get down to the 5 and they hand it to Ball.

I'm not going to get into the analytical splitting of hairs on the intent of every play because there will be some of us that see it one way and others that see it another but if you are watching these games, from end to end, not just reading stats and compiling them, you get the sense that the Broncos are doing much more than just trying to end a game they are clearly in control of. You're up 16 with 7 and change. You are in FG range. Yet, you are throwing 13 and 16 and 18 yards down the field and stopping the clock on incompletions versus running (and your running game and kicking game are red hot) and allowing big chunks of time to come off the clock? Ok, we disagree but I grew up watching football when teams knew how to get the ball with 6-7 minutes left and that was it; game over.

But that's enough of that. Maybe Peyton is so smart that teams play the run at that point and he decides to check into the pass. If that's the case, the only thing I quesiton is the entire opposition's ability to do anything and Peyton's desire to throw in the intermediate range vs. very short passes that don't kill the clock.

At the end of the day, as much as I have watched Peyton Manning over the years I'll just say this: Don't let the Andy Griffith persona fool you. This guy is hyper-competitive and I know that in that head of his, he has an agenda for stats.
really? The drive you are complaining about was a 10 play, 5 minute drive covering just 49 yards and ending on a 5 yard TD run. 5 runs, 5 passes.

There are other threads in this forum where Manning is criticized for handing the ball off too much, specifically the NE game. I have been critical of Fox-ball in the past, specifically the end of the Ravens playoff game, for not throwing the ball to close out the win. And now you are critical of throwing too much here...kind of damned if you do, damned if you don't.

I personally think the way to close out games is to keep a measured amount of aggression...maybe you don't need to take a ton of risks and throw, throw, throw, but shutting down the passing game isn't the answer either.

 
Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
As I said, a 2-score lead is never safe in the NFL. Just look at Patriots/Browns from this past weekend for an extreme example- Cleveland scored to go up 26-14 with under 3 minutes remaining, and they still lost. So no, going for a touchdown when you've got a two-score lead is never "running up the score".

With that in mind, find me an example of a time Peyton Manning has thrown in the 4th quarter with a 3+ score lead, with the exception of short passes on 3rd down designed simply to convert and keep the clock running. Denver's modus operandi has been pretty clear this year- stake a 17+ point lead and then ride out the clock.
As recently as last week, upp 44-28 with less than 8 minutes left in the game, in clear FG range and he attempts passes 7 times during the drive until they get down to the 5 and they hand it to Ball.

I'm not going to get into the analytical splitting of hairs on the intent of every play because there will be some of us that see it one way and others that see it another but if you are watching these games, from end to end, not just reading stats and compiling them, you get the sense that the Broncos are doing much more than just trying to end a game they are clearly in control of. You're up 16 with 7 and change. You are in FG range. Yet, you are throwing 13 and 16 and 18 yards down the field and stopping the clock on incompletions versus running (and your running game and kicking game are red hot) and allowing big chunks of time to come off the clock? Ok, we disagree but I grew up watching football when teams knew how to get the ball with 6-7 minutes left and that was it; game over.

But that's enough of that. Maybe Peyton is so smart that teams play the run at that point and he decides to check into the pass. If that's the case, the only thing I quesiton is the entire opposition's ability to do anything and Peyton's desire to throw in the intermediate range vs. very short passes that don't kill the clock.

At the end of the day, as much as I have watched Peyton Manning over the years I'll just say this: Don't let the Andy Griffith persona fool you. This guy is hyper-competitive and I know that in that head of his, he has an agenda for stats.
Very, very good post. You will find in here that people do NOT want to hear any intimations that Peyton is at all focused on padding his stats or going for any record. Such trivial pursuits are apparently beneath Mr. Manning. The Manning fanboys in here will come up with the most ridiculous arguments trying to show that what we are seeing is not what is actually happening.

The bottom line is this - Manning and the Broncos are very much aware of all the records that are within their reach, and though it is not their primary objective to attain these records, you better believe that if there is a way to get these records within the confines of winning the games they will do exactly that. Manning will break all the records - because he can and because he wants to. And the whole time his supporters will deny that he was ever trying to do so.

As to the topic - this is the best offensive team I have ever seen - even better than the 2007 Patriots. I just wish they would be upfront and acknowledge they are going for the records. If the rest of the NFL doesn't like it they are more than welcome to put a stop to it on the field of play.

 
Shutout said:
Hoss Style said:
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
As I said, a 2-score lead is never safe in the NFL. Just look at Patriots/Browns from this past weekend for an extreme example- Cleveland scored to go up 26-14 with under 3 minutes remaining, and they still lost. So no, going for a touchdown when you've got a two-score lead is never "running up the score".

With that in mind, find me an example of a time Peyton Manning has thrown in the 4th quarter with a 3+ score lead, with the exception of short passes on 3rd down designed simply to convert and keep the clock running. Denver's modus operandi has been pretty clear this year- stake a 17+ point lead and then ride out the clock.
As recently as last week, upp 44-28 with less than 8 minutes left in the game, in clear FG range and he attempts passes 7 times during the drive until they get down to the 5 and they hand it to Ball.

I'm not going to get into the analytical splitting of hairs on the intent of every play because there will be some of us that see it one way and others that see it another but if you are watching these games, from end to end, not just reading stats and compiling them, you get the sense that the Broncos are doing much more than just trying to end a game they are clearly in control of. You're up 16 with 7 and change. You are in FG range. Yet, you are throwing 13 and 16 and 18 yards down the field and stopping the clock on incompletions versus running (and your running game and kicking game are red hot) and allowing big chunks of time to come off the clock? Ok, we disagree but I grew up watching football when teams knew how to get the ball with 6-7 minutes left and that was it; game over.

But that's enough of that. Maybe Peyton is so smart that teams play the run at that point and he decides to check into the pass. If that's the case, the only thing I quesiton is the entire opposition's ability to do anything and Peyton's desire to throw in the intermediate range vs. very short passes that don't kill the clock.

At the end of the day, as much as I have watched Peyton Manning over the years I'll just say this: Don't let the Andy Griffith persona fool you. This guy is hyper-competitive and I know that in that head of his, he has an agenda for stats.
Very, very good post. You will find in here that people do NOT want to hear any intimations that Peyton is at all focused on padding his stats or going for any record. Such trivial pursuits are apparently beneath Mr. Manning. The Manning fanboys in here will come up with the most ridiculous arguments trying to show that what we are seeing is not what is actually happening.

The bottom line is this - Manning and the Broncos are very much aware of all the records that are within their reach, and though it is not their primary objective to attain these records, you better believe that if there is a way to get these records within the confines of winning the games they will do exactly that. Manning will break all the records - because he can and because he wants to. And the whole time his supporters will deny that he was ever trying to do so.

As to the topic - this is the best offensive team I have ever seen - even better than the 2007 Patriots. I just wish they would be upfront and acknowledge they are going for the records. If the rest of the NFL doesn't like it they are more than welcome to put a stop to it on the field of play.
I don't disagree with this in the slightest. Nor does anyone, ever. If you asked every NFL player in history "Would you rather win the game, or win the game by exactly the same margin and also set some records in the process", they're going to pick the second choice. If you're adding something good without adding anything bad to offset, then the outcome becomes more good.

If someone said "all else being equal, Manning would prefer to have the record", I wouldn't have a problem with that. I have a problem with the insinuation that Peyton Manning is making it so that all else ISN'T equal in his pursuit of the records- that he's doing things that are not in his team's best interest but which increase his chances of getting the record. He's not. He never has been. He audibles to runs at the goal line, even though it hurts his chances at the record. He sat out the 4th quarter against Philly, even though it hurt his chances at the record. He stops passing with a 3-score lead, even though it hurts his chances at the record. He had that bootleg TD against Dallas, even though it hurt his chances at the record. He handed off a bazillion times against New England, even though it hurt his chances at the record.

Speaking of New England, it's another example of the double-standard that Manning gets held to. Peyton Manning hands off a ton and he's a fool who let the defense trick him into taking himself out of the game. Peyton Manning passes a ton and he's a glory-hound stat whore who is just chasing records. Damned if he does, damned if he doesn't.

 
The Denver Broncos have thrown 11 passes in the 4th quarter with a 17+ lead this year. Three of them were by Brock Osweiler. Here were the other 8:

1st and 15 against Baltimore, 18 point lead, 14:46 to go

2nd and 9 against Baltimore, 18 point lead, 14:27 to go

1st and 10 against Baltimore, 18 point lead, 14:05 to go

3rd and 8 against Baltimore, 24 point lead, 13:19 to go

3rd and 8 against Baltimore, 22 point lead, 1:16 to go

3rd and 7 against New York, 22 point lead, 6:10 to go

2nd and 7 against Oakland, 23 point lead, 3:58 to go

3rd and 10 against Washington, 17 point lead, 4:17 to go

Only two of those throws have come when Denver was across midfield (both against Baltimore). Feel free to make the case that Denver has been running up the score.

 
Peyton Manning is tied for 6th in the NFL in pass attempts with a 3-score 4th-quarter lead. He ranks behind Brees, Newton, Rodgers, Palmer, and Kaepernick, in a tie with Russell Wilson and Tarvaris Jackson.

By far the worst offender in that category is Drew Brees. Brees is 19/25 for 257 yards and 3 TDs. He's the only guy in the NFL with more than 1 TD in that situation (the entire rest of the league combined only has 8). He also has by far the most attempts and yards. How often do you hear accusations of running up the score leveled his way? Because I can't recall any...

Edit: Denver's passes on 23.4% of plays in such situations rank below the league average. New Orleans passes on 34%, the third-highest rate in the league of any team with at least 4 such plays, behind only Arizona and Philadelphia.

 
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This has to be one of the dumbest arguments.
No kidding. I guess they should just cancel the rest of the game when you get up 16 in the 4th.

The funny part is if Manning just handed the ball off every time, punted (repeat) and the other team came back and won. Manning would be labeled a choker. (That's never happened). He keeps scoring, he is playing for records. Like Adam said, he can't win with some people.

 
Broncos sitting at 464 points in 12 games - 38.7 PPG. Currently on pace for 619 points this season (NFL record is 589). 2007 Patriots had 469 after 12 games so Broncos are slightly behind Pats pace. Those Patriots scores above 35 just once in their final 4 games. It will be interesting to see if Denver can maintain this pace or if they slow down as the season drags.

We should note that the Broncos don't play any team with a winning record the rest of the season so there is a chance they slow things down, not needing to outscore opponents. Of course, New England keeps winning so the pressure for home-field advantage remains.
what's the titans record?

they've been playing running up the score on teams with losing records all year
As much as I love Larry's posts in the IDP Forum...

...
I think this is true. When you see Manning stil in the game (and I don't mean physically in the game but "in TO the game) with 7 minutes left and a 20+ point lead and he's still throwing, throwing, throwing, yeah I can buy that they are padding stats. If they REALLY wanted to, when they get to that point, they could spread everyone out wide and give any of their RBs some garbage stats. But instead, we see, every week, two or three (read that again...2 or 3 TDs) passed in the 4th quarter. That's cool if you making a comeback, but if you're already winning by a couple of scores....Why not have one ground series and eat up half the quarter? Guess they want to be the Patriots.
I can't explain it any better than Ghost Rider did above. If anyone can break each game down, like GR did, and show more evidence towards the Broncos running up the score than GR did against it, then I'll pay attention.

Until then it's mostly people looking at the final score and saying "They ran it up!"

 

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