2013 Hot Stove & Capella's Fabulous Cornhole Thread (1 Viewer)

[shadyridr]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

 

[the moops]

I wouldve rather signed beltran at less money and years. Hes simply better than ellsbury and somehow less injury prone.

Not sure how in the world you can justify Beltran better than Ellsbury - and if you are concerned about injuries, since 2008, Beltran has played 583 games with 2,429 plate appearances. Over that same span Ellsbury has 537 games with 2,468 plate appearances.

Of course Beltran was less money, he'll be 37 before the season starts. Ellsbury is 7 years younger.

Over the past three seasons, Ellsbury as posted WAR's of 8.1 and 5.8 (2011 was basically a wasted year for him).

Beltrans last two seasons (which he has been healthy) he's posted WAR's of 3.8 and 2.4

If you compare apples to apples, a healthy Ellsbury at his best right now at 30 years old is much, much better than a healthy 37 year old Carlos Beltran.

I'm not saying if I were a Yankee fan I would be thrilled with the kind of money tied up with Ellsbury though. For a leadoff man he is not the greatest at getting on base (granted once he is on base he is a terror on the basepaths). The bigger issue is you're giving a 7 year contract to a guy that does rely on his legs quite a bit, so the back end of the contract has a good chance of looking not so good.

Yeah I guess when you take into account defense and base running Ellsbury surpasses Beltran. I guess I just meant Beltran is a better hitter and someone I trust in the playoffs. Of course the contract comes into play and Beltran can also play some DH ro rest his legs.

Beltran has obviously been ridiculous in the playoffs, but Elsbury has hit 301/361/414 in 38 game sin the postseason

 

[the moops]

Beltran to KC?

Seems as though he has a 3/48 deal from them on the table

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

So I guess that's why you said this: "low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark," ####stain

 

[shadyridr]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

So I guess that's why you said this: "low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark," ####stain

which one of thoses arent true penis breath

 

[Doctor Detroit]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

So I guess that's why you said this: "low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark," ####stain

which one of thoses arent true penis breath

Hey Vinny, go take your lithium and leave logic to the adults.

 

[shadyridr]

I never understood using first name shtick as some kind of insult

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Plus if Cano stayed in NY and made it to the Hall of Fame, you'd never get to see his plaque anyway because you'd be in too much of a hurry.

 

[Doctor Detroit]

Love you shady.

Why would the Mets sign Granderson? Face of franchise type player for sure but they already have David Wright and Granderson's power doesn't translate well to that big park they have. I guess his triples would go back up but his homers would go down to the mid 20s you'd think. I thought he'd go back home to Chicago, guess neither of those teams are interested.

Speaking of Chicago, Konerko back the White Sux.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Stephen A was pretty funny this morning saying if you are going to sign a Red Sock to 22 million over 7 you better find a way to sign Cano, who's better and homegrown to boot. Be a travesty if they sign a rival and let their own guy (who's better) walk. Gotta agree with him there.

 

[the moops]

Not sure which I enjoy more. the Doc/Shady baseball feud or the cappy/gunz basketball feud

 

[shadyridr]

Plus if Cano stayed in NY and made it to the Hall of Fame, you'd never get to see his plaque anyway because you'd be in too much of a hurry.

 

[TobiasFunke]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

It reads like you're saying that he's less likely to get to the Hall because of the lower profile of the team and the fewer playoff appearances as well as the park effects.

The point is that the first two don't really matter that much any more- the first one barely matters at all, and the second is marginal at best. The third is a reasonable point, although they moved the fences in and Seattle came in 15th in 2013 while Yankee Stadium was 7th, so it's not really a big deal.

The idea that moving from New York to Seattle "ruins" his chances because it would negatively impact his "legacy" comes across as more than a little smug. Especially for a player like Cano, who's already a Hall lock barring disaster. It makes it sound like you think he'll be forgotten by the baseball world if he leaves for the remote, irrelevant baseball outpost of Seattle, where nobody ever gets voted into the All-Star game or picked in a fantasy league or profiled on Baseball Tonight.

 

[shadyridr]

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contendor every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF). If he goes to Seattle (low profile team, lower playoff odds, pitchers ballpark) he pretty much ruins any chance of getting into the Hall. I know money is important but isnt legacy also a factor?

Ichiro won an MVP and will be getting into the HOF in Seattle Ken Griffey Jr too

Felix Hernandez won a Cy Young out there too.

It's not the 1960s any more. Most baseball fans and members of the media know exactly what every single all-star caliber player in the league is doing all the time. And even if they don't have Extra Innings and check Fangraphs regularly or play fantasy baseball, interleague play forces every fan and beat writer in the country to learn about the player at least once every three years.

I think Cano's well on his way to the Hall. He'd have to fall apart completely or commit a felony to miss it.

Shady lives on Staten Island, it's still 1955 there.

It was more an indictment on the difference in ballparks between Yankee Stadium and Safeco numbnuts

It reads like you're saying that he's less likely to get to the Hall because of the lower profile of the team and the fewer playoff appearances as well as the park effects.

The point is that the first two don't really matter that much any more- the first one barely matters at all, and the second is marginal at best. The third is a reasonable point, although they moved the fences in and Seattle came in 15th in 2013 while Yankee Stadium was 7th, so it's not really a big deal.

The idea that moving from New York to Seattle "ruins" his chances because it would negatively impact his "legacy" comes across as more than a little smug. Especially for a player like Cano, who's already a Hall lock barring disaster. It makes it sound like you think he'll be forgotten by the baseball world if he leaves for the remote, irrelevant baseball outpost of Seattle, where nobody ever gets voted into the All-Star game or picked in a fantasy league or profiled on Baseball Tonight.

Im saying all 3 are a factor with park factor being the biggest and profile of the team being the lowest. I didnt think I had to rank them. People said for years "what if Jeter played on the Pirates" and Yankee fans like myself would get all up in arms. Now I say something similar and I come off as a little smug?

 

[Don Quixote]

It's a good thing Randy Johnson spent those two years with the Yankees. Otherwise, he'd have spent his prime in Canada, Seattle, and the desert, and no one would have heard of him.

 

[Michael Brown]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Cano should worry more about Seattle being able to put a viable team around him, esp. in such a competitive division. He can't get them there on his own.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

Cano is way, way better than Ortiz. He might have a better case than Ortiz if he quit baseball tomorrow.

Schilling would have a shot at the Hall regardless of his postseason feats, although they obviously help just like they help Ortiz. But last I checked Seattle is eligible for the postseason. They're not as likely to make it as NY, but on the flip side Cano would get a LOT more credit if he starred for a Seattle postseason team or a World Series team than if he did the same for the New York Jeters.

May I humbly suggest that maybe there's a reason that the two guys who the rest of us think are overselling this angle are both Yankee fans? You guys see the game differently than the rest of the baseball world. You've admitted as much in the past, I think this is another instance of it.

Also, Shady- you didn't just ask the question, and you cited park factor as only one of the relevant considerations from which you concluded that he would "pretty much ruin any chance of getting into the Hall." Your words, not mine. That's incredibly smug. Nobody ever ruined their chances of making the Hall due to park factors alone, or even affected them significantly, so you were obviously implying that the reduced spotlight would play a hueg part.

 

[TobiasFunke]

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps. You know how many guys are in the Hall wearing Mets caps? One. There are more Milwaukee Brewers (founded 1970) and Montreal Expos (founded 1969) than New York Mets.

And it's a huge jump from "staying with the Yankees would help his bid" to "going to Seattle would ruin his chances."

 

[Don Quixote]

If you move Cano from the Yankees to the M's, I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the M's could potentially have a better team than the Yankees in the next few years.

 

[the moops]

Surprised that salty was only able to get 3/21 in this market

 

[pollardsvision]

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps.

And I'm not sure being with the Yankees makes that part feel all that safe anymore.

They make some pretty awful decisions, and that's starting to matter.

Smaller market teams locking up their young stars a little longer combined with players starting to follow a more natural career arc means the Yankees money will often mean they just get the opportunity to pay for players' declining 30's.

The future of the post-George Yankees is about as bright as the post-Jerry Lakers.

Of course, in Cano's case, it doesn't matter much. Whichever team is dumb enough to give him $200+ mill probably isn't smart enough to keep a consistent contender around him anyway.

 

[Eephus]

I don't think future HoF implications are anywhere in Cano and Jay-Z's thought process.

 

[Eephus]

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps.

And I'm not sure being with the Yankees makes that part feel all that safe anymore.

They make some pretty awful decisions, and that's starting to matter.

Smaller market teams locking up their young stars a little longer combined with players starting to follow a more natural career arc means the Yankees money will often mean they just get the opportunity to pay for players' declining 30's.

The future of the post-George Yankees is about as bright as the post-Jerry Lakers.

Of course, in Cano's case, it doesn't matter much. Whichever team is dumb enough to give him $200+ mill probably isn't smart enough to keep a consistent contender around him anyway.

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps.

And I'm not sure being with the Yankees makes that part feel all that safe anymore.

They make some pretty awful decisions, and that's starting to matter.

Smaller market teams locking up their young stars a little longer combined with players starting to follow a more natural career arc means the Yankees money will often mean they just get the opportunity to pay for players' declining 30's.

The future of the post-George Yankees is about as bright as the post-Jerry Lakers.

Of course, in Cano's case, it doesn't matter much. Whichever team is dumb enough to give him $200+ mill probably isn't smart enough to keep a consistent contender around him anyway.

Money may not necessarily buy championships but it can buy perennial playoff contention. High payroll teams will continue to have bad years (or longer in the case of the Phillies) but they will generally outperform small market clubs over time.

 

[shadyridr]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

Cano is way, way better than Ortiz. He might have a better case than Ortiz if he quit baseball tomorrow.

Schilling would have a shot at the Hall regardless of his postseason feats, although they obviously help just like they help Ortiz. But last I checked Seattle is eligible for the postseason. They're not as likely to make it as NY, but on the flip side Cano would get a LOT more credit if he starred for a Seattle postseason team or a World Series team than if he did the same for the New York Jeters.

May I humbly suggest that maybe there's a reason that the two guys who the rest of us think are overselling this angle are both Yankee fans? You guys see the game differently than the rest of the baseball world. You've admitted as much in the past, I think this is another instance of it.

Also, Shady- you didn't just ask the question, and you cited park factor as only one of the relevant considerations from which you concluded that he would "pretty much ruin any chance of getting into the Hall." Your words, not mine. That's incredibly smug. Nobody ever ruined their chances of making the Hall due to park factors alone, or even affected them significantly, so you were obviously implying that the reduced spotlight would play a hueg part.

OK lets ignore park factor completely. Lets say Cano signs and plays for 7 more years. Lets say for arguments sake he puts up the same exact regular season #s for both the Ms and the Yankees in those 7 years. Lets say he also has a number of postseasons with the Yankees and puts up good to great #s in those postseasons. Lets also say he plays less postseasons with the Ms and puts up similar stats in those lesser games.

I dont know how anybody with half a brain would say the chances of Cano making the HOF in the Yankee scenario isnt > then the chances of making the HOF in the Mariner scenario even if that chance is 1% greater.

 

[shadyridr]

If you move Cano from the Yankees to the M's, I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the M's could potentially have a better team than the Yankees in the next few years.

Its a HUGE stretch

Felix, Cano & Seager and nothing else is not a good team especially in that division.

 

[pollardsvision]

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps.

And I'm not sure being with the Yankees makes that part feel all that safe anymore.

They make some pretty awful decisions, and that's starting to matter.

Smaller market teams locking up their young stars a little longer combined with players starting to follow a more natural career arc means the Yankees money will often mean they just get the opportunity to pay for players' declining 30's.

The future of the post-George Yankees is about as bright as the post-Jerry Lakers.

Of course, in Cano's case, it doesn't matter much. Whichever team is dumb enough to give him $200+ mill probably isn't smart enough to keep a consistent contender around him anyway.

Of course being in NY helps a HOF bid, crazy to think it doesn't.

No, playing for a perennial contender helps.

And I'm not sure being with the Yankees makes that part feel all that safe anymore.

They make some pretty awful decisions, and that's starting to matter.

Smaller market teams locking up their young stars a little longer combined with players starting to follow a more natural career arc means the Yankees money will often mean they just get the opportunity to pay for players' declining 30's.

The future of the post-George Yankees is about as bright as the post-Jerry Lakers.

Of course, in Cano's case, it doesn't matter much. Whichever team is dumb enough to give him $200+ mill probably isn't smart enough to keep a consistent contender around him anyway.

Money may not necessarily buy championships but it can buy perennial playoff contention. High payroll teams will continue to have bad years (or longer in the case of the Phillies) but they will generally outperform small market clubs over time.

True, and I'm exaggerating a bit.

It's just there are there's a growing list of teams with the money to compete that also make good decisions and develop quality players.

They Yankees will likely be able to spend their way into competing most years, but I'm totally convinced of that. They keep doing things we know don't really work all that well and failing to do the thing we know is a must (acquire and develop great young arms).

 

[Anarchy99]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

 

[Eephus]

The Konerko $2.5M contract consists of $1.5M in 2014 and $1M in 2021. Somebody with more financial acumen can calculate the NPV of the deferred money but it's gotta be pretty low.

I guess that's low cost insurance against Jose Abreu and/or Dunn failing. Konerko looked done last year but is one year removed from .298/.371/.486 so there's some chance of a dead cat bounce.

It's only a bad deal if the Sox feel obliged to give Konerko too many of Abreu's ABs. Abreu will be 27 next month, the team's only real option is to throw him in the deep end.

 

[fruity pebbles]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

I think Salty overplayed his hand. He was reportedly looking for 4 years at around 36 million. When the Sox pulled out after getting AJ, his market dropped significantly.

 

[Hilts]

Cano should worry more about Seattle being able to put a viable team around him, esp. in such a competitive division. He can't get them there on his own.

If they're really opening the wallet, could become a good team soon. Lots of good arms close to coming up.

 

[Don Quixote]

If you move Cano from the Yankees to the M's, I don't think it is a big stretch to say that the M's could potentially have a better team than the Yankees in the next few years.

Its a HUGE stretch

Felix, Cano & Seager and nothing else is not a good team especially in that division.

They've got Walker coming up, who has the making of another elite starter. They'd still have money left to burn on an OF. They could trade Franklin, and maybe throw in another one of their young arms (such as Maurer or Ramirez) for help too.

The Yankees were 14 games better than the Mariners last year. Cano's averaging about 8 WAR the past few years, and he'd be replacing a 1 WAR player in the M's lineup (I realize a bit of a flawed comparison, but Cano himself would make up a big chunk of ground).

 

[Michael Brown]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

May I humbly suggest that maybe there's a reason that the two guys who the rest of us think are overselling this angle are both Yankee fans?

I didn't say that, and I didn't even say I agreed with Shady. I just said I can see people attributing his big stats to Yankee Stadium if he leaves and goes to Seattle and his numbers decline.

Like I said, Cano is on a HOF track right now. If his numbers tumble over the next few years though, he may not be. He's got 16 less HR and 64 less RBI on the road over his career despite despite 156 more ABs over that time. If you prorate his home stats to give him an equal number of ABs, it's equivalent to having 23 more HR and 91 more RBI at home than on the road. Over a 9-year career, that's 2-3 less HR and 10 less RBI per year. Not the worst thing in the world and his stats would still be excellent (and in fairness, his road OPS is better than at home so maybe I cherry-picked the power stats...but they will be taken into account by voters so I think they are valid). But then if you take him off a team with Jeter, Teixeira, Granderson, ARod and put him on a team with guys like Smoak, Seager, etc, and I think you can see those numbers dwindle further.

Basically, I'm not actually saying leaving NY will hurt him. I'm saying going to Seattle will hurt him. If he left the Yankees and went to the Tigers or Cardinals or Rangers, he'd be totally fine and this wouldn't even be a conversation. Contending teams whose stadiums and lineups wouldn't suppress his value, well that would be the same thing he has now. But no, I don't think there's any sort of "benefit" gained just by being a Yankee. All things being equal, having a sterling postseason resume certainly helps a guy who is on the border for HOF and he would appear to have a much smaller chance of being in the postseason with the M's over the next 7 years. It's not saying he CAN'T get into the HOF as a Mariner; it's just saying his chances would be BETTER as a Yankee (or a Tiger, or a Cardinal, or a Ranger, etc), which I don't think can really be disputed.

 

[shadyridr]

^This

 

[Raider Nation]

Mccann, ellsbury, johnson... The yankees do realize righty bats exist, right?

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contender every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF).

Contradictory posts.

I'll take every left-handed bat I can get.

 

[shadyridr]

Mccann, ellsbury, johnson... The yankees do realize righty bats exist, right?

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contender every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF).

Contradictory posts.

I'll take every left-handed bat I can get.

Not really. Ill take MORE lefties in Yankee Stadium but its nice to have a few righties to sprinkle in to break up the lefties when they face a lefty or when another team brings in a lefty specialist.

 

[Michael Brown]

Mccann, ellsbury, johnson... The yankees do realize righty bats exist, right?

So if Cano stayed with the Yankees hed have a legit shot of being a HOF one day (high profile team, playoff contender every year, bandbox home stadium with a short porch in RF).

Contradictory posts.

I'll take every left-handed bat I can get.

Not really. Ill take MORE lefties in Yankee Stadium but its nice to have a few righties to sprinkle in to break up the lefties when they face a lefty or when another team brings in a lefty specialist.

Tex, Jeter, Arod, Soriano is potentially a very good foursome of righties. Of course aside from Sori, they could all combine for 12 ABs next season.

 

[Brady Marino]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

Salty is from the Miami area, so I wonder if he gave them a bit of a hometown discount.

 

[Eephus]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

Salty is from the Miami area, so I wonder if he gave them a bit of a hometown discount.

Maybe he's enochlophobic

 

[Brady Marino]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

Salty is from the Miami area, so I wonder if he gave them a bit of a hometown discount.

Maybe he's enochlophobic

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

Salty is from the Miami area, so I wonder if he gave them a bit of a hometown discount.

Maybe he's enochlophobic

Or maybe he really likes Cuban sangwiches.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Something doesn't add up with Salty. It's been reported that the Sox offered him 2 years for a total of $18 million. He took one more year for essentially $3 million more from Miami. With the finally year basically only costing $3 million more, you would think the Sox would have matched the Marlins offer and worse case he was a back up the last year or trade bait.

Unless the Sox are preparing to bring in someone with a big contract either as a free agent or in a trade, they seem to be able to afford a few extra million to spend.

I think Boston 1) is counting on having their prospects up in possibly a year, making Saltalablahblah an albatross and 2) Christo could steal off Saltalamacchia.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

A's were rumored to have been shopping Yoenis to the D-bags for potentially Skaggs and Pollock. Fell apart, but I could def. see Cespedes hitting the road.

 

[Good Posting Judge]

Pretty interesting stuff going on with the NPB. It looks like they might change the posting system so the maximum posting fee is $20mm, and if multiple teams post it, they can all vie for the player's services. Good for the players themselves, good for MLB teams, bad for NPB teams.

As such, Rakuten is considering NOT posting Tanaka this year, as he'd be worth more to them pitching than traded for a massive American check.

 

[Hilts]

A's were rumored to have been shopping Yoenis to the D-bags for potentially Skaggs and Pollock. Fell apart, but I could def. see Cespedes hitting the road.

Arizona is looking for a slugger. If only they had a Justin Upton type...

 

[TobiasFunke]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

May I humbly suggest that maybe there's a reason that the two guys who the rest of us think are overselling this angle are both Yankee fans?

I didn't say that, and I didn't even say I agreed with Shady. I just said I can see people attributing his big stats to Yankee Stadium if he leaves and goes to Seattle and his numbers decline.

Like I said, Cano is on a HOF track right now. If his numbers tumble over the next few years though, he may not be. He's got 16 less HR and 64 less RBI on the road over his career despite despite 156 more ABs over that time. If you prorate his home stats to give him an equal number of ABs, it's equivalent to having 23 more HR and 91 more RBI at home than on the road. Over a 9-year career, that's 2-3 less HR and 10 less RBI per year. Not the worst thing in the world and his stats would still be excellent (and in fairness, his road OPS is better than at home so maybe I cherry-picked the power stats...but they will be taken into account by voters so I think they are valid). But then if you take him off a team with Jeter, Teixeira, Granderson, ARod and put him on a team with guys like Smoak, Seager, etc, and I think you can see those numbers dwindle further.

Basically, I'm not actually saying leaving NY will hurt him. I'm saying going to Seattle will hurt him. If he left the Yankees and went to the Tigers or Cardinals or Rangers, he'd be totally fine and this wouldn't even be a conversation. Contending teams whose stadiums and lineups wouldn't suppress his value, well that would be the same thing he has now. But no, I don't think there's any sort of "benefit" gained just by being a Yankee. All things being equal, having a sterling postseason resume certainly helps a guy who is on the border for HOF and he would appear to have a much smaller chance of being in the postseason with the M's over the next 7 years. It's not saying he CAN'T get into the HOF as a Mariner; it's just saying his chances would be BETTER as a Yankee (or a Tiger, or a Cardinal, or a Ranger, etc), which I don't think can really be disputed.

Like I said, it's not the sixties any more. Many voters are already dismissing contextual stats like RBIs in favor of much better metrics. You think that trend is gonna reverse itself over the next 15 years? Not a chance. By the time Cano is up for the Hall, fans and writers will be laughing the Murray Chasses and Mitch Alboms of the world out of the room.

Would it hurt him? Maybe, although who knows what the Mariners will look like even three years from now. But it certainly wouldn't "ruin his chances" like shady said.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that there will be four Mariners that post better offensive numbers over the next several years than Jeter, Teixeira, Granderson, ARod. Hell I'd bet that there will be four that outperform them next season.

 

[Michael Brown]

Guys like Schilling and Ortiz ONLY have a shot at the hall because of big playoff moments with a high profile team like Boston. Put them on seattle their whole careers with no postseason experience, and they're outside looking in.

Cano's numbers are on a HOF track but if he goes to seattle and puts up a series of 280-22-80 seasons with little lineup protection and the natural decline in his 30's, i can see people attributing a helton-type of coors field effect against him and saying his big numbers were a product of yankee stadium.

May I humbly suggest that maybe there's a reason that the two guys who the rest of us think are overselling this angle are both Yankee fans?

I didn't say that, and I didn't even say I agreed with Shady. I just said I can see people attributing his big stats to Yankee Stadium if he leaves and goes to Seattle and his numbers decline.

Like I said, Cano is on a HOF track right now. If his numbers tumble over the next few years though, he may not be. He's got 16 less HR and 64 less RBI on the road over his career despite despite 156 more ABs over that time. If you prorate his home stats to give him an equal number of ABs, it's equivalent to having 23 more HR and 91 more RBI at home than on the road. Over a 9-year career, that's 2-3 less HR and 10 less RBI per year. Not the worst thing in the world and his stats would still be excellent (and in fairness, his road OPS is better than at home so maybe I cherry-picked the power stats...but they will be taken into account by voters so I think they are valid). But then if you take him off a team with Jeter, Teixeira, Granderson, ARod and put him on a team with guys like Smoak, Seager, etc, and I think you can see those numbers dwindle further.

Basically, I'm not actually saying leaving NY will hurt him. I'm saying going to Seattle will hurt him. If he left the Yankees and went to the Tigers or Cardinals or Rangers, he'd be totally fine and this wouldn't even be a conversation. Contending teams whose stadiums and lineups wouldn't suppress his value, well that would be the same thing he has now. But no, I don't think there's any sort of "benefit" gained just by being a Yankee. All things being equal, having a sterling postseason resume certainly helps a guy who is on the border for HOF and he would appear to have a much smaller chance of being in the postseason with the M's over the next 7 years. It's not saying he CAN'T get into the HOF as a Mariner; it's just saying his chances would be BETTER as a Yankee (or a Tiger, or a Cardinal, or a Ranger, etc), which I don't think can really be disputed.

Like I said, it's not the sixties any more. Many voters are already dismissing contextual stats like RBIs in favor of much better metrics. You think that trend is gonna reverse itself over the next 15 years? Not a chance. By the time Cano is up for the Hall, fans and writers will be laughing the Murray Chasses and Mitch Alboms of the world out of the room.

Would it hurt him? Maybe, although who knows what the Mariners will look like even three years from now. But it certainly wouldn't "ruin his chances" like shady said.

Also, I'd be willing to bet that there will be four Mariners that post better offensive numbers over the next several years than Jeter, Teixeira, Granderson, ARod. Hell I'd bet that there will be four that outperform them next season.

Although I was referencing the last few years of Jeter, Tex, Grandy, and ARod. At least one of those guys won't be on the team this year, and probably none of them will play key roles over the next several years. But I used them instead of guys like Ellsbury and McCann, because Cano may never play with them.

 

[TobiasFunke]

By the way, the Yankees fans talking about Cano's potential Seattle move here sound pretty much exactly like the Phillies fans after Werth left for Washington in free agency three years ago, except for the HOF part. He's leaving a perennial contender for a cellar dweller, he's ruining his legacy, he'll never get to play in the postseason, etc. Pretty sure he's OK with the move at this point. Seven years is a long time.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

A's were rumored to have been shopping Yoenis to the D-bags for potentially Skaggs and Pollock. Fell apart, but I could def. see Cespedes hitting the road.

Local scuttlebutt is that they pushed for Archie Bradley, and the D-backs told them to pound sand. And that that was pretty much the same response Towers got from the Rays when they inquired about Price and refused to include Bradley.

 

[Bob Sacamano]

A's were rumored to have been shopping Yoenis to the D-bags for potentially Skaggs and Pollock. Fell apart, but I could def. see Cespedes hitting the road.

Arizona is looking for a slugger. If only they had a Justin Upton type...

Except they're going to be asked to trade from an area of weakness to acquire one. Shopping for both a #3 hitter and a #1 starter in the trade market when you're not willing to move your top prospect is going to make for interesting conversations. Good luck moving a second-baseman to get a #1.