2013 Off Season Dynasty Trade Thread (for completed trades) (2 Viewers)

[menobrown]

Why is where someone drafted him relevant to his current value?

Do you really think this is giving him away? Things can change, but right now this looks like an early 2nd round pick in a pretty good draft class. Doesn't seem far off to me.

It's extremely relevant when you are drafting a position that requires patience. Why spend the high pick and than not be patient?

This class may be deeper than it's being given credit for but it's not what I'd be labeling a "pretty good draft class" either.

The guy was outplayed by his fellow rookie teammate who was drafted later by a decent amount. Patience or not, his value is a bit lower than it was going into the season, and it wasn't super high to begin with.

We're talking 2014 draft class, not this one.

Well it makes zero difference if he had teammate that you perceive out played him that was drafted later. This mindset is why Gronkowksi was on a lot of leagues waiver wires his rookie season. I also believe Allen to be an inferior player but he was healthy last year when Fleener was not so he outproduced him which to me is not the same as outplaying him. Either way this team took two TE's to build a TE centric offense but they had an OC last year who has never featured the TE a ton, which is why Heath Miller was mostly down during their years together. Now they've brought in a OC who likes to utilize the TE and Luck is only going to get better. Room for both of them IMO but I'd still prefer Fleener.

 

[Dez]

12 team PPR dynasty

Reggie Bush

for

Chris Wells

pick 12

2014 2nd (likely late)

2014 1st (probable playoff team)

I"ll take Reggie over that all day long.

I will take two 1sts and a 2nd all day over Reggie.

Depends on the rules of your league. This was an FFPC league trade where you have a 20 man roster and cut down to 14 position players every Feb 28th. Draft picks are worth a lot less in this type of league because you simply don't have the time to have these players sit on your roster if you want to try and win with a 20 man roster limit. Many times these guys are being drafted in May then waived in August especially if a team trading for those picks already has 10 picks this year. On the other hand a team that is already loaded as is the case here they are trading away picks that will never make their 14 man cut list next year most likely and they are getting a guy who is going to help them win a title.

Now if this was a league where you could roster 25 players, taxi 10-15 players or taxi rookies then things are going to be looked at a little differently but I still like Bush for this price in any format.

 

[ghostguy123]

12 team PPR dynasty

Reggie Bush

for

Chris Wells

pick 12

2014 2nd (likely late)

2014 1st (probable playoff team)

I"ll take Reggie over that all day long.

Me too.

This is the FFPC with smaller rosters, devaluing the picks a bit, so for people in leagues with mich bigger rosters, I can see taking the picks, but I still prefer Bush even with 25-30 man rosters

 

[humpback]

Why is where someone drafted him relevant to his current value?

Do you really think this is giving him away? Things can change, but right now this looks like an early 2nd round pick in a pretty good draft class. Doesn't seem far off to me.

It's extremely relevant when you are drafting a position that requires patience. Why spend the high pick and than not be patient?

This class may be deeper than it's being given credit for but it's not what I'd be labeling a "pretty good draft class" either.

The guy was outplayed by his fellow rookie teammate who was drafted later by a decent amount. Patience or not, his value is a bit lower than it was going into the season, and it wasn't super high to begin with.

We're talking 2014 draft class, not this one.

Well it makes zero difference if he had teammate that you perceive out played him that was drafted later. This mindset is why Gronkowksi was on a lot of leagues waiver wires his rookie season. I also believe Allen to be an inferior player but he was healthy last year when Fleener was not so he outproduced him which to me is not the same as outplaying him. Either way this team took two TE's to build a TE centric offense but they had an OC last year who has never featured the TE a ton, which is why Heath Miller was mostly down during their years together. Now they've brought in a OC who likes to utilize the TE and Luck is only going to get better. Room for both of them IMO but I'd still prefer Fleener.

That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with what draft pick you used on him? Value is value regardless of what you paid to acquire the asset.

When a guy goes into a season expected to be the #1 TE on his team but isn't, it's absurd to think that makes zero difference. His value has dropped some since last season, and where you drafted him is clearly irrelevant in evaluating this particular deal since he didn't spend any draft pick on him, he got a draft pick back in exchange for a mediocre TE. You also didn't address the fact that you had the draft classes wrong.

 

[floods]

12 team PPR dynasty, 30 man roster, QB/2RB/3WR/FLEX/TE/K/DST

Team A Gives:

Crabtree

4.11

5.11

Team B Gives:

McFadden

Taiwan

Michael Floyd

Team A starters after trade:

QB - Cam

RB - Foster, MJD

WR - Cruz, Jordy, VJax

Flex - McFadden/Garcon/Wright/Floyd

TE - Witten

Team B starters after trade:

QB - Luck

RB - BJGE, Moreno/Hillman

WR - Crabs, Bowe, Jennings/Stevie

Flex - Jennings/Stevie/VDavis/Finley

TE - VDavis/Finley

Team B also owns 1.01, 1.02, 1.04, 1.05, 1.06, 2.04, 2.05 and some later picks.

 

[cstu]

Why is where someone drafted him relevant to his current value?

Do you really think this is giving him away? Things can change, but right now this looks like an early 2nd round pick in a pretty good draft class. Doesn't seem far off to me.

It's extremely relevant when you are drafting a position that requires patience. Why spend the high pick and than not be patient?

This class may be deeper than it's being given credit for but it's not what I'd be labeling a "pretty good draft class" either.

The guy was outplayed by his fellow rookie teammate who was drafted later by a decent amount. Patience or not, his value is a bit lower than it was going into the season, and it wasn't super high to begin with.

We're talking 2014 draft class, not this one.

Well it makes zero difference if he had teammate that you perceive out played him that was drafted later. This mindset is why Gronkowksi was on a lot of leagues waiver wires his rookie season. I also believe Allen to be an inferior player but he was healthy last year when Fleener was not so he outproduced him which to me is not the same as outplaying him. Either way this team took two TE's to build a TE centric offense but they had an OC last year who has never featured the TE a ton, which is why Heath Miller was mostly down during their years together. Now they've brought in a OC who likes to utilize the TE and Luck is only going to get better. Room for both of them IMO but I'd still prefer Fleener.

That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with what draft pick you used on him? Value is value regardless of what you paid to acquire the asset.

When a guy goes into a season expected to be the #1 TE on his team but isn't, it's absurd to think that makes zero difference. His value has dropped some since last season, and where you drafted him is clearly irrelevant in evaluating this particular deal since he didn't spend any draft pick on him, he got a draft pick back in exchange for a mediocre TE. You also didn't address the fact that you had the draft classes wrong.

Fleener went before the 2.01 in my February startup. If someone is down on him and that was the best they could get then it's an ok trade but there are still people high on him. Next year's 2nd even from the team with this year's 1.02 could still be a middle or even late pick.

 

[SayWhat?]

My:

B. Pierce and two 2014 1st (mid to late)

for

His: Kap, Ivory and a 4th

Kap, RiversMJD, Morris, BJGE, Ballard, A. Brown, DuJuan Harris, Ivory, Pead/RichardsonAustin, Nelson, Steve Johnson, Michael Floyd, Hartline, K. WrightPettigrew

I think it's pretty high price to pay for Kaep

Assuming we call Pierce and Ivory a near wash right now, if I didn't have a reliable QB on my roster (his situation it appears) I wouldn't hesitate for one second to part with two late 2014 1sts for Kaepernick. That's nowhere near a high price IMO.

 

[ghostguy123]

My:

B. Pierce and two 2014 1st (mid to late)

for

His: Kap, Ivory and a 4th

Kap, RiversMJD, Morris, BJGE, Ballard, A. Brown, DuJuan Harris, Ivory, Pead/RichardsonAustin, Nelson, Steve Johnson, Michael Floyd, Hartline, K. WrightPettigrew

I think it's pretty high price to pay for Kaep

Assuming we call Pierce and Ivory a near wash right now, if I didn't have a reliable QB on my roster (his situation it appears) I wouldn't hesitate for one second to part with two late 2014 1sts for Kaepernick. That's nowhere near a high price IMO.

Even if one of those 1sts is like pick 2 or 3, two 1sts is fine for Kap. I would pay that easily.

However, I like Pierce WAYY more than Ivory actually as far as talent goes.

 

[SayWhat?]

My:

B. Pierce and two 2014 1st (mid to late)

for

His: Kap, Ivory and a 4th

Kap, RiversMJD, Morris, BJGE, Ballard, A. Brown, DuJuan Harris, Ivory, Pead/RichardsonAustin, Nelson, Steve Johnson, Michael Floyd, Hartline, K. WrightPettigrew

I think it's pretty high price to pay for Kaep

Assuming we call Pierce and Ivory a near wash right now, if I didn't have a reliable QB on my roster (his situation it appears) I wouldn't hesitate for one second to part with two late 2014 1sts for Kaepernick. That's nowhere near a high price IMO.

Even if one of those 1sts is like pick 2 or 3, two 1sts is fine for Kap. I would pay that easily.

However, I like Pierce WAYY more than Ivory actually as far as talent goes.

I would concur with this, though Ivory seems to have the potential to get more workload than Pierce over the next 3 years while Pierce sits behind Rice.

 

[ghostguy123]

I wil generally lean towards talent over situation for dynasty, seems to benefit my teams in the longrun that way, so Pierce over Ivory by a lot for me.

 

[humpback]

Why is where someone drafted him relevant to his current value?

Do you really think this is giving him away? Things can change, but right now this looks like an early 2nd round pick in a pretty good draft class. Doesn't seem far off to me.

It's extremely relevant when you are drafting a position that requires patience. Why spend the high pick and than not be patient?

This class may be deeper than it's being given credit for but it's not what I'd be labeling a "pretty good draft class" either.

The guy was outplayed by his fellow rookie teammate who was drafted later by a decent amount. Patience or not, his value is a bit lower than it was going into the season, and it wasn't super high to begin with.

We're talking 2014 draft class, not this one.

Well it makes zero difference if he had teammate that you perceive out played him that was drafted later. This mindset is why Gronkowksi was on a lot of leagues waiver wires his rookie season. I also believe Allen to be an inferior player but he was healthy last year when Fleener was not so he outproduced him which to me is not the same as outplaying him. Either way this team took two TE's to build a TE centric offense but they had an OC last year who has never featured the TE a ton, which is why Heath Miller was mostly down during their years together. Now they've brought in a OC who likes to utilize the TE and Luck is only going to get better. Room for both of them IMO but I'd still prefer Fleener.

That's nice and all, but what does that have to do with what draft pick you used on him? Value is value regardless of what you paid to acquire the asset.

When a guy goes into a season expected to be the #1 TE on his team but isn't, it's absurd to think that makes zero difference. His value has dropped some since last season, and where you drafted him is clearly irrelevant in evaluating this particular deal since he didn't spend any draft pick on him, he got a draft pick back in exchange for a mediocre TE. You also didn't address the fact that you had the draft classes wrong.

Fleener went before the 2.01 in my February startup. If someone is down on him and that was the best they could get then it's an ok trade but there are still people high on him. Next year's 2nd even from the team with this year's 1.02 could still be a middle or even late pick.

Again, nice and all, but every league is different. He could have gone higher or lower in others, there could be many or no people still high on him, etc.

Yes, it could be a middle or even late pick, but that still could possibly be worth as much as Fleener. It's also possible that it's an early pick which is worth more than Fleener will be. All depends on what happens, but it still doesn't matter where he was drafted.

I wasn't commenting so much because it was a great or terrible trade (I think it's reasonable), I was commenting on the idea that it's a terrible trade because he was drafted with a higher pick than he was traded for. Value is value, it doesn't matter what price you paid for them.

 

[ghostguy123]

Again, nice and all, but every league is different. He could have gone higher or lower in others, there could be many or no people still high on him, etc.

Yes, it could be a middle or even late pick, but that still could possibly be worth as much as Fleener. It's also possible that it's an early pick which is worth more than Fleener will be. All depends on what happens, but it still doesn't matter where he was drafted.

I wasn't commenting so much because it was a great or terrible trade (I think it's reasonable), I was commenting on the idea that it's a terrible trade because he was drafted with a higher pick than he was traded for. Value is value, it doesn't matter what price you paid for them.

My guess is this. It DOES matter that he was traded for a worse pick than where he was drafted, because he hasn't done anything to HURT his value.

At least if I had him and was going to trade him, I would not deal him for less than what I paid to get him because of this. I would never draft a TE and expect production for 1, or even 2 years. And even in year 1, Fleener did enough to show he can play, and very realistically can be a TE-1 for fantasy.

If you are not willing to wait on a guy for a year or two, I suggest not drafting tigth ends high then.

 

[loose circuits]

Finley for Rube Randle

 

[Ernol]

I wasn't commenting so much because it was a great or terrible trade (I think it's reasonable), I was commenting on the idea that it's a terrible trade because he was drafted with a higher pick than he was traded for. Value is value, it doesn't matter what price you paid for them.

I think we're in the minority, but I agree with you. Where you draft someone should mean little other than a psychological impediment to trading. Being able to admit a mistake is a good thing (if you’re good at identifying your mistakes of course).

 

[SieteCinco]

12 Team, 1PPR, 2QB-2RB-2WR-1TE-1FL (QB/Superflex league, so basically 2QB's)

Team A gave - 4.05

Team B gave - Cedric Benson

Team A gave - Ray Rice, Michael Vick, Danario Alexander, Vincent Brown

Team B gave - AJ Green, Josh Freeman, Michael Bush, Roy Helu

Team A's starting lineup now (was strong at RB but needed a WR badly):

QB: Aaron Rodgers

QB: Colin Kaepernick - Josh Freeman

RB: Trent Richardson

RB: Jamaal Charles - Moreno/McGahee - Leshoure - Bryce Brown

WR: AJ Green

WR: Greg Jennings - Santonio Holmes - Ryan Broyles - James Jones

TE: Greg Olsen - Fred Davis - Coby Fleener

Team B's starting lineup now (was strong at WR but needed an RB badly):

QB: Robert Griffin lll - Kirk Cousins

QB: Michael Vick - Christian Ponder

RB: Ray Rice

RB: Rashard Mendenhall/Ryan Williams - Shane Vereen - Tate

WR: Demaryius Thomas

WR: Justin Blackmon - DX - Vincent Brown

TE: Aaron Hernandez - Jared Cook

 

[ghostguy123]

I wasn't commenting so much because it was a great or terrible trade (I think it's reasonable), I was commenting on the idea that it's a terrible trade because he was drafted with a higher pick than he was traded for. Value is value, it doesn't matter what price you paid for them.

I think we're in the minority, but I agree with you. Where you draft someone should mean little other than a psychological impediment to trading. Being able to admit a mistake is a good thing (if you’re good at identifying your mistakes of course).

Agreed for sure, previous value means nothing.

However in this particular case, IF you are willing to cut bait on a guy after one year, dont draft a tight end with a high pick.

 

[menobrown]

I wasn't commenting so much because it was a great or terrible trade (I think it's reasonable), I was commenting on the idea that it's a terrible trade because he was drafted with a higher pick than he was traded for. Value is value, it doesn't matter what price you paid for them.

I think we're in the minority, but I agree with you. Where you draft someone should mean little other than a psychological impediment to trading. Being able to admit a mistake is a good thing (if you’re good at identifying your mistakes of course).

Agreed for sure, previous value means nothing.

However in this particular case, IF you are willing to cut bait on a guy after one year, dont draft a tight end with a high pick.

That pretty much sums it up. This is not about holding onto a guy out of some need to justify the original pick. It's a position specific discussion that the TE position in particular requires patience so you don't use a high pick on them and give up on them for less what you paid a year later. (In this case not sure that's how it went down).

There is an exception to every rule. Situations change. Teams could replace coach, scheme, QB, etc The player could suffer a massive injury. Maybe he just looks absolutely awful and fails every imaginable eye test. So certainly even for TE's there can be reason to want to cut bait in a year after making a big investment. In Fleener's case I just don't see any of these negatives at play.

Now in terms of the trade that was posted in here I'm not sure any of this is applicable. If I'm reading the trade right it looks like Fleener was acquired this off season at an already discounted price. So someone did give up on Fleener to soon but it was the guy who sent JohnW Fleener as that's the team that probably spent a high pick on a position/player that requires patience and than they failed to show any. Still if I was JohnW I'd have kept Fleener and cut Tamme but that's another discussion.

 

[Kree]

12 Team, 1PPR, 2QB-2RB-2WR-1TE-1FL (QB/Superflex league, so basically 2QB's)

Team A gave - 4.05

Team B gave - Cedric Benson

Team A gave - Ray Rice, Michael Vick, Danario Alexander, Vincent Brown

Team B gave - AJ Green, Josh Freeman, Michael Bush, Roy Helu

Team A's starting lineup now (was strong at RB but needed a WR badly):

QB: Aaron Rodgers

QB: Colin Kaepernick - Josh Freeman

RB: Trent Richardson

RB: Jamaal Charles - Moreno/McGahee - Leshoure - Bryce Brown

WR: AJ Green

WR: Greg Jennings - Santonio Holmes - Ryan Broyles - James Jones

TE: Greg Olsen - Fred Davis - Coby Fleener

Team B's starting lineup now (was strong at WR but needed an RB badly):

QB: Robert Griffin lll - Kirk Cousins

QB: Michael Vick - Christian Ponder

RB: Ray Rice

RB: Rashard Mendenhall/Ryan Williams - Shane Vereen - Tate

WR: Demaryius Thomas

WR: Justin Blackmon - DX - Vincent Brown

TE: Aaron Hernandez - Jared Cook

Very good move for B based on his RB corp, and considering he still has Demy as a WR1 with upsides behind him in Blackmon/Brown, it was a move that probably had to be made. I'm not really a Freeman fan, but he still has upside. Team A in turn gets a stud WR to tide him over until he uncovers a long term WR2.

Great move both ways based on rosters. In a vacuum I would prefer Green/Freeman due to being a SuperFlex, but no real complaints.

Also a big fan of Vincent, hoping he gets his chance this year.

 

[gianmarco]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

 

[ghostguy123]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

 

[Evil G]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

Give me the Torrey and Maclin side. Everyone is ga-ga for Blackmon, yet he plays in Jacksonsville. Mediocre QB play at best, and I don't see them finding a replacement for Gabbert or Henne anytime soon. Torrey equals Blackmon's production for what, the next two years...maybe three? That's a lifetime in Dynasty.

 

[Concept Coop]

That pretty much sums it up. This is not about holding onto a guy out of some need to justify the original pick. It's a position specific discussion that the TE position in particular requires patience so you don't use a high pick on them and give up on them for less what you paid a year later. (In this case not sure that's how it went down).

I agree with this. Also, why does it matter that Allen played better last year? The Colts didn't draft both guys to have a competition in which the winner would be in a position to produce, and the loser would not. Both guys are in their plans. And, as you have pointed out, it takes a year for most TEs to start producing fantasy points.

 

[Evil G]

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

For no good reason.

 

[Concept Coop]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

Give me the Torrey and Maclin side. Everyone is ga-ga for Blackmon, yet he plays in Jacksonsville. Mediocre QB play at best, and I don't see them finding a replacement for Gabbert or Henne anytime soon. Torrey equals Blackmon's production for what, the next two years...maybe three? That's a lifetime in Dynasty.

I would likely take Blackmon, but it's close and would require some thought on my part. But I don't think Torrey equal's Blackmon in PPR leagues, starting this year. Shorts and Blackmon both had top 15 second halves of the season's with Henne at QB. Torrey hasn't shown that he can be a high reception guy, yet. He could, but I was hoping he'd take that step last year.

If you think Blackmon is a future top 5-6 guy, it shouldn't matter who his starting QB is today, in my opinion.

 

[Concept Coop]

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

For no good reason.

Have you looked at his second half season numbers? He started late due to contract issues and suffered through Gabbert. But once he got going, he had a great rookie season. I think there is plenty of reason for the Blackmon hype.

 

[Sabertooth]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

 

[Scooby]

Gave pick 2.5

Got Mikel Leshoure, pick 3.6

Tean getting Leshoure has bush

 

[ghostguy123]

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

For no good reason.

Have you looked at his second half season numbers? He started late due to contract issues and suffered through Gabbert. But once he got going, he had a great rookie season. I think there is plenty of reason for the Blackmon hype.

One minor issue is that MJD was gone that entire time, and they threw way more than they will if they had a competent RB. It's at least something to consider.

 

[Evil G]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

I did a very similar deal, receiving the 1. I flipped the 1.06 later, evidently not caring to have any picks in this year's Draft.

I am hoping my new 2014 1st turns into someone so much better than Lacy. Maybe I am dreaming, as Fantasy Footballers often do.

 

[ghostguy123]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

I like the move a lot

 

[matttyl]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

Depending on what happens tonight, I think I like it. If, though, Lacy ends up in a terrific situation - I might feel otherwise.

 

[ghostguy123]

Gave pick 2.5

Got Mikel Leshoure, pick 3.6

Tean getting Leshoure has bush

I will gladly take Leshoure for that

 

[Scooby]

Gave Jason Witten, Brandon Gibson

Got Denarious Moore, Jermaine Gresham.

PPR, Wr's get 1 pre catch, TE's get 1.25

 

[ghostguy123]

Gave Jason Witten, Brandon Gibson

Got Denarious Moore, Jermaine Gresham.

PPR, Wr's get 1 pre catch, TE's get 1.25

Gotta take Witten there unless I didnt think I was competing for a year or two

 

[Evil G]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

Give me the Torrey and Maclin side. Everyone is ga-ga for Blackmon, yet he plays in Jacksonsville. Mediocre QB play at best, and I don't see them finding a replacement for Gabbert or Henne anytime soon. Torrey equals Blackmon's production for what, the next two years...maybe three? That's a lifetime in Dynasty.

If you think Blackmon is a future top 5-6 guy, it shouldn't matter who his starting QB is today, in my opinion.

Man, I cannot agree. First, I think QB play must be factored in. How do you become a top 5-6 guy without a decent guy throwing you the ball (or stay as such, if your 'decent guy' goes away, eh Fitz?).

 

[ghostguy123]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

Give me the Torrey and Maclin side. Everyone is ga-ga for Blackmon, yet he plays in Jacksonsville. Mediocre QB play at best, and I don't see them finding a replacement for Gabbert or Henne anytime soon. Torrey equals Blackmon's production for what, the next two years...maybe three? That's a lifetime in Dynasty.

If you think Blackmon is a future top 5-6 guy, it shouldn't matter who his starting QB is today, in my opinion.

Man, I cannot agree. First, I think QB play must be factored in. How do you become a top 5-6 guy without a decent guy throwing you the ball (or stay as such, if your 'decent guy' goes away, eh Fitz?).

If you think Blackmon will never play with a good QB, I guess you are right. But that would be one heck of a crystal ball speculation.

I would take the Smith/Maclin side of this one, but not a slam dunk

 

[Concept Coop]

Man, I cannot agree. First, I think QB play must be factored in. How do you become a top 5-6 guy without a decent guy throwing you the ball (or stay as such, if your 'decent guy' goes away, eh Fitz?).

Don't get me wrong Coop, I respect your opinion, but based on what we know today, how can we project him as top 5-6 in the next two years?

I don’t know that I expect top 5-6 in the next 1-2 years. I would say he's a future top 7-9 guy, eventually. Perhaps top 15 this year.

I think different philosophies can work, especially in dynasty formats. Mine would lead me to bet on talent. Even Henne is a major upgrade from what Larry had in Arizona this year, so not all bad situations are created equal. As we saw last season, Blackmon can put up some numbers with Henne.

I do admit that the deal is close. I really like targeting Maclin right now, actually. But looking at the 3 parts, Blackmon is the one guy I see as a potential top asset. That’s why I am likely to lean that way.

 

[jmo87usc]

Gave pick 2.5

Got Mikel Leshoure, pick 3.6

Tean getting Leshoure has bush

I will gladly take Leshoure for that

I agree. I gave the 1.07 for Leshoure straight up a month ago. Sounds crazy, but I think he is more talented than any RB I would have taken at 7 and I'm not that worried about Bush impinging on his carries. I expect similar production to last year which was good for RB2 in my ppr league.

 

[Sabertooth]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

Depending on what happens tonight, I think I like it. If, though, Lacy ends up in a terrific situation - I might feel otherwise.

Perhaps. But that's exactly why I did it now. I don't want to talk myself into using the pick on fool's gold later thereby losing that 1st next season.

 

[SayWhat?]

Gave pick 2.5

Got Mikel Leshoure, pick 3.6

Tean getting Leshoure has bush

I will gladly take Leshoure for that

I agree. I gave the 1.07 for Leshoure straight up a month ago. Sounds crazy, but I think he is more talented than any RB I would have taken at 7 and I'm not that worried about Bush impinging on his carries. I expect similar production to last year which was good for RB2 in my ppr league.

I'm just wondering what would lead you to believe this? On top of how mediocre Leshoure looked last year, I'm not quite sure I can get on board with what amounts to the thought process that the Lions spent $16MM on Bush with a $4.5MM signing bonus for him to simply replace Joique Bell's role in the offense.

 

[thriftyrocker]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

I like the trade regardless, but if it's a PPR league it's a homerun.

 

[Spin]

A few over the last 2 weeks, if I've posted one in here before forgive me, I searched back a few pages and can't find any.

All from same league, Start 1 qb/2rb/3wr/1te/1flex(any)/idp ppr + return yards. Owners get 75 "snotes" each year, used for blind bids and FA acquisition:

B.S. Inc gave up Freeman, Josh TBB QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 3.01; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty Hunters

RRRRARMSTRONG gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.09;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.10

Comments: Rrarmstrong to give bs inc 7 s notes

Turd Ferguson gave up

.Spin gave up Lindley, Ryan ARI QB;Pryor, Terrelle OAK QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 4.10

Comments: Turd to give 14 snotes

--I was likely to cut Lindley/Pryor anyhow as my DTS is full and with my picks this year, the 4.10 was likely not going to make my roster/DTS anyhow.

B.S. Inc gave up Johnson, Chris TEN RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.06;Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.07

The Bounty Hunters gave up Tate, Ben HOU RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.06; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty Hunters

The Bounty Hunters gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.07;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.03

The Notorious B.I.Goz gave up Brady, Tom NEP QB

.Spin gave up Welker, Wes DEN WR;Witten, Jason DAL TE

Drunken Midgets gave up Hernandez, Aaron NEP TE

-- Was stacked at WR, and liked nabbing Hernandez to pair with Coby Fleener/Vernon Davis to anchor my TE for a few years.

 

[JPeso]

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

For no good reason.

Have you looked at his second half season numbers? He started late due to contract issues and suffered through Gabbert. But once he got going, he had a great rookie season. I think there is plenty of reason for the Blackmon hype.

One minor issue is that MJD was gone that entire time, and they threw way more than they will if they had a competent RB. It's at least something to consider.

You are reaching, ghostguy. MJD back will only be a positive for that offense. Less pass attempts? Sure. More openings down the field? Most certainly.

 

[gianmarco]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

Give me the Torrey and Maclin side. Everyone is ga-ga for Blackmon, yet he plays in Jacksonsville. Mediocre QB play at best, and I don't see them finding a replacement for Gabbert or Henne anytime soon. Torrey equals Blackmon's production for what, the next two years...maybe three? That's a lifetime in Dynasty.

You realize there is strong buzz about Geno Smith going to Jax, right? Anytime soon could happen in as little as 9 hours.

 

[jmo87usc]

Gave pick 2.5

Got Mikel Leshoure, pick 3.6

Tean getting Leshoure has bush

I will gladly take Leshoure for that

I agree. I gave the 1.07 for Leshoure straight up a month ago. Sounds crazy, but I think he is more talented than any RB I would have taken at 7 and I'm not that worried about Bush impinging on his carries. I expect similar production to last year which was good for RB2 in my ppr league.

I'm just wondering what would lead you to believe this? On top of how mediocre Leshoure looked last year, I'm not quite sure I can get on board with what amounts to the thought process that the Lions spent $16MM on Bush with a $4.5MM signing bonus for him to simply replace Joique Bell's role in the offense.

I can certainly understand why the majority would agree with you on the money spent vs usage. I feel Bush was brought in more so to be the difference maker in all that open space the passing game creates. Sure they are calling him the starter, and he'll probably amass 150-200 carries in addition to his catches. But Leshoure remains the short yardage/goaline back. He looked fine to me having only been a year removed from achilles surgery.

I could be totally wrong, but even so, Leshoure will only be 25 when his contract runs out and will have low mileage. I just felt he was a better option than say Christine Michael going to the Bears or something like that.

 

[jonboltz]

A few over the last 2 weeks, if I've posted one in here before forgive me, I searched back a few pages and can't find any. All from same league, Start 1 qb/2rb/3wr/1te/1flex(any)/idp ppr + return yards. Owners get 75 "snotes" each year, used for blind bids and FA acquisition: B.S. Inc gave up Freeman, Josh TBB QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 3.01; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty HuntersRRRRARMSTRONG gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.09;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.10Comments: Rrarmstrong to give bs inc 7 s notes Turd Ferguson gave up.Spin gave up Lindley, Ryan ARI QB;Pryor, Terrelle OAK QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 4.10Comments: Turd to give 14 snotes --I was likely to cut Lindley/Pryor anyhow as my DTS is full and with my picks this year, the 4.10 was likely not going to make my roster/DTS anyhow. B.S. Inc gave up Johnson, Chris TEN RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.06;Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.07The Bounty Hunters gave up Tate, Ben HOU RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.06; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty Hunters The Bounty Hunters gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.07;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.03The Notorious B.I.Goz gave up Brady, Tom NEP QB .Spin gave up Welker, Wes DEN WR;Witten, Jason DAL TEDrunken Midgets gave up Hernandez, Aaron NEP TE -- Was stacked at WR, and liked nabbing Hernandez to pair with Coby Fleener/Vernon Davis to anchor my TE for a few years.

Assuming I'm reading this right (superflex league?), I absolutely hate the deals for the teams giving up Freeman and Brady.

 

[humpback]

I think we're in the minority, but I agree with you. Where you draft someone should mean little other than a psychological impediment to trading. Being able to admit a mistake is a good thing (if you’re good at identifying your mistakes of course).

Agreed, although it's not so much about admitting a mistake in this case. It's more admitting that his value isn't quite as high as it was before the season.

Agreed for sure, previous value means nothing.

However in this particular case, IF you are willing to cut bait on a guy after one year, dont draft a tight end with a high pick.

It's been pointed out, but in this particular case, he didn't draft a TE with a high pick, he traded for him cheaply.

That pretty much sums it up. This is not about holding onto a guy out of some need to justify the original pick. It's a position specific discussion that the TE position in particular requires patience so you don't use a high pick on them and give up on them for less what you paid a year later. (In this case not sure that's how it went down).

There is an exception to every rule. Situations change. Teams could replace coach, scheme, QB, etc The player could suffer a massive injury. Maybe he just looks absolutely awful and fails every imaginable eye test. So certainly even for TE's there can be reason to want to cut bait in a year after making a big investment. In Fleener's case I just don't see any of these negatives at play.

Now in terms of the trade that was posted in here I'm not sure any of this is applicable. If I'm reading the trade right it looks like Fleener was acquired this off season at an already discounted price. So someone did give up on Fleener to soon but it was the guy who sent JohnW Fleener as that's the team that probably spent a high pick on a position/player that requires patience and than they failed to show any. Still if I was JohnW I'd have kept Fleener and cut Tamme but that's another discussion.

We don't even know what pick was used (by the original owner). What if he was the #12 rookie pick? Factoring in the somewhat disappointing season, the roster restrictions in his league, etc, the values could be fairly close. No one is saying give up on Fleener because he'll never be able to be a #1 TE based on one season, but he also wasn't given away for nothing. He got a #2 pick in next year's draft (from the 2nd worst team in his league last year, would have been #14), and freed up a roster spot.

I agree with this. Also, why does it matter that Allen played better last year? The Colts didn't draft both guys to have a competition in which the winner would be in a position to produce, and the loser would not. Both guys are in their plans. And, as you have pointed out, it takes a year for most TEs to start producing fantasy points.

How does it not matter? Fleener's value last season was established with the expectation of receiving the lion's share of the TE production in Indy. If Allen gets a bigger piece of that pie than originally expected, Fleener's value should reflect that. Of course we don't know how it's going to be split in the future, but I think it has to be considered. Again, no one is saying Fleener is garbage and he wen't from TE 10 to TE 20. We're talking a slight decrease in value, I don't think we just ignore what happened last season because he's a TE.

 

[Spin]

A few over the last 2 weeks, if I've posted one in here before forgive me, I searched back a few pages and can't find any. All from same league, Start 1 qb/2rb/3wr/1te/1flex(any)/idp ppr + return yards. Owners get 75 "snotes" each year, used for blind bids and FA acquisition: B.S. Inc gave up Freeman, Josh TBB QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 3.01; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty HuntersRRRRARMSTRONG gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.09;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.10Comments: Rrarmstrong to give bs inc 7 s notes Turd Ferguson gave up.Spin gave up Lindley, Ryan ARI QB;Pryor, Terrelle OAK QB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 4.10Comments: Turd to give 14 snotes --I was likely to cut Lindley/Pryor anyhow as my DTS is full and with my picks this year, the 4.10 was likely not going to make my roster/DTS anyhow. B.S. Inc gave up Johnson, Chris TEN RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.06;Year 2013 Draft Pick 7.07The Bounty Hunters gave up Tate, Ben HOU RB; Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.06; Year 2014 Round 1 Draft Pick from The Bounty Hunters The Bounty Hunters gave up Year 2013 Draft Pick 1.07;Year 2013 Draft Pick 2.03The Notorious B.I.Goz gave up Brady, Tom NEP QB .Spin gave up Welker, Wes DEN WR;Witten, Jason DAL TEDrunken Midgets gave up Hernandez, Aaron NEP TE -- Was stacked at WR, and liked nabbing Hernandez to pair with Coby Fleener/Vernon Davis to anchor my TE for a few years.

Assuming I'm reading this right (superflex league?), I absolutely hate the deals for the teams giving up Freeman and Brady.

Yah, it's a superflex.

Goz has Kaep/Flacco and would lose Brady at end of season. I still think he could have gotten more, he didn't do a very good job shopping him around, as he never approached me. It's essentially 1.07/2.4 for one year of Brady, not sure Bounty Hunters will be able to keep him either as he also has Peyton, AP and McCoy on 1 year deals. Guess he's going all in to try to win this year.

Same with BS Inc. He has Stafford, Tannenhill, and Freeman had a 1 year contract. Still, not sure why he felt the need to add a future first as well...

 

[humpback]

Gave 2013 1.01

Got: 2013 1.05 and 2014 1st rounder (should be top 4 I think)

Depending on what happens tonight, I think I like it. If, though, Lacy ends up in a terrific situation - I might feel otherwise.

I believe this is a 2 QB league, and if so, I think it's a great trade. I think it's very good even if it's not (if he's not way off on his top 4 assumption).

 

[cstu]

1 ppr

Team A receives: Blackmon

Team B receives: Torrey/Maclin

wow. Not saying wow as in it's too much to give for Blackmon, just saying wow as in WOW Blackmon's value seems to be skyrocketing based on a lot of deals I have seen with him

And I think the team getting Blackmon got the better end of it. I view Blackmon's upside as much higher than Torrey or Maclin.