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2014 Oakland Raiders Regular Season Thread (1 Viewer)

LawFitz said:
Not interested in signing an overrated malcontent for top-5 center money. If Whiz wants to sign a deal commensurate with his talent/production, fine. Otherwise, see ya later.

Suh is intriguing, but I think the guy is a character risk and considering it'll take a Mario Williams-type deal to get him, I'd pass.

Hardy I would take if the deal is low risk with outs for future seasons if he doesn't work out.

Focus on the draft, sign value free agents and save the blockbuster deals for true blue chip FAs with minimal/zero character concerns. Those types rarely hit the market, but sometimes they do because of salary cap issues.
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I don't disagree your take on Wiz, but at least tag him with a transition tag. That way his agent does the leg work and Raiders have the option to match it or not. In defense of Wiz he is generally ranked in the top at his position, and we all know this team is in dire need of keeping talent, not letting it go. I also do not want to disrupt the continuity of the OLine given Carr's early development. (Gotta be strong up the middle.)As for Suh, what the hell is wrong with a little character risk at that position? Geez, that fits right in with the great Raider teams of the past--Davidson, Alzedo, Sistrunk... I say break the bank, there is no question that he is a complete stud.

 
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32 Counter Pass said:
LawFitz said:
Not interested in signing an overrated malcontent for top-5 center money. If Whiz wants to sign a deal commensurate with his talent/production, fine. Otherwise, see ya later.

Suh is intriguing, but I think the guy is a character risk and considering it'll take a Mario Williams-type deal to get him, I'd pass.

Hardy I would take if the deal is low risk with outs for future seasons if he doesn't work out.

Focus on the draft, sign value free agents and save the blockbuster deals for true blue chip FAs with minimal/zero character concerns. Those types rarely hit the market, but sometimes they do because of salary cap issues.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree your take on Wiz, but at least tag him with a transition tag. That way his agent does the leg work and Raiders have the option to match it or not. In defense of Wiz he is generally ranked in the top at his position, and we all know this team is in dire need of keeping talent, not letting it go. I also do not want to disrupt the continuity of the OLine given Carr's early development. (Gotta be strong up the middle.)As for Suh, what the hell is wrong with a little character risk at that position? Geez, that fits right in with the great Raider teams of the past--Davidson, Alzedo, Sistrunk... I say break the bank, there is no question that he is a complete stud.
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Agreed on Suh, you don't get better players on the free agent market. They have the cap room, use it to get a stud.

 
Motivation after a big deal is always a question. And the really big deals don't ever seem to be worth it. Michael Johnson, anyone?

The sweet spot is those mid range deals,where guys don't get 20 mill in cash up front.

Suh has actually already made a ton of money, weight isn't a problem, unlike Fairley,who is also gonna be a free agent (potentially).

I think Suh will have similar offers from more attractive places. Word is, he wants a big city.

 
With $60 million in cap space, there is no reason we should be outbid for Suh's services. We had enough cap left over to absorb his cap number this year. $60 mill is a helluva bag of loot. No reason we can't get those value mid tier free agents as well as land Suh. Heck, landing Suh might help recruit some blue chippers to stop by for a visit. We can have our cake and eat it. We just need a GM without thrift shop tendencies.

 
massraider said:
Motivation after a big deal is always a question. And the really big deals don't ever seem to be worth it. Michael Johnson, anyone?

The sweet spot is those mid range deals,where guys don't get 20 mill in cash up front.

Suh has actually already made a ton of money, weight isn't a problem, unlike Fairley,who is also gonna be a free agent (potentially).

I think Suh will have similar offers from more attractive places. Word is, he wants a big city.
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There are a lot of big money FAs that don't work out, but there are some that do. Julius Peppers is one example. He may not want to come, but I would like them to at least give it a shot.

 
massraider said:
Motivation after a big deal is always a question. And the really big deals don't ever seem to be worth it. Michael Johnson, anyone?

The sweet spot is those mid range deals,where guys don't get 20 mill in cash up front.

Suh has actually already made a ton of money, weight isn't a problem, unlike Fairley,who is also gonna be a free agent (potentially).

I think Suh will have similar offers from more attractive places. Word is, he wants a big city.
Click to expand...
Agree. Suh worries me as a guy who will let his motor lapse more often then not after signing a big deal (freely admit I could be wrong) but a guy like Hardy seems like he would want to change his public narrative and the best way to do that is perform when given the opportunity. I think he is easily as disruptive to an opposing offense as Suh and he may come at a discount because of his baggage.

Reclamation projects were Al Davis's forte and Hardy fits that mold in a big way.

Again, I could be wrong but I like Hardy's potential for continued motivation after signing a deal more than Suh's.

 
Raiderfan32904 said:
With $60 million in cap space, there is no reason we should be outbid for Suh's services. We had enough cap left over to absorb his cap number this year. $60 mill is a helluva bag of loot. No reason we can't get those value mid tier free agents as well as land Suh. Heck, landing Suh might help recruit some blue chippers to stop by for a visit. We can have our cake and eat it. We just need a GM without thrift shop tendencies.
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Will we even be allowed to bid?

You don't think all teams are in on all players, do you?

 
massraider said:
Raiderfan32904 said:
With $60 million in cap space, there is no reason we should be outbid for Suh's services. We had enough cap left over to absorb his cap number this year. $60 mill is a helluva bag of loot. No reason we can't get those value mid tier free agents as well as land Suh. Heck, landing Suh might help recruit some blue chippers to stop by for a visit. We can have our cake and eat it. We just need a GM without thrift shop tendencies.
Click to expand...
Will we even be allowed to bid?

You don't think all teams are in on all players, do you?
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I think the game changer will be if we move to LA. Suh wants a big city market. As it stands now, I think we are a longshot even with the money. But if Mark gets the go-ahead to move south, well....

 
Agreed, I hadn't thought about that.

I think if this team winds up pitching Carr/Harbauagh, it'll be a lot more enticing. A lot moreso than other teams, which means OAK wouldn't be the least liked destination for free agents.

 
Chaka said:
massraider said:
Motivation after a big deal is always a question. And the really big deals don't ever seem to be worth it. Michael Johnson, anyone?

The sweet spot is those mid range deals,where guys don't get 20 mill in cash up front.

Suh has actually already made a ton of money, weight isn't a problem, unlike Fairley,who is also gonna be a free agent (potentially).

I think Suh will have similar offers from more attractive places. Word is, he wants a big city.
Click to expand...
Agree. Suh worries me as a guy who will let his motor lapse more often then not after signing a big deal (freely admit I could be wrong) but a guy like Hardy seems like he would want to change his public narrative and the best way to do that is perform when given the opportunity. I think he is easily as disruptive to an opposing offense as Suh and he may come at a discount because of his baggage.Reclamation projects were Al Davis's forte and Hardy fits that mold in a big way.

Again, I could be wrong but I like Hardy's potential for continued motivation after signing a deal more than Suh's.
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I say we go after both of them!
 
Thanks for the link, mass. I recall Kirwin making a very strong case for targeting players on their second contract. Historically these type of signs have a much higher success rate than the type of signings Reggie pursued this last offseason. These are generally players around 27 yo. Players that may be a fit for the Raiders (besides Suh):

* Ray Maualuga -- would fill a big need at MLB

** JPP -- young pass rushing DE

*** Dem Thomas -- instantly upgrades the WR position while weakening a divisional opponent

* Mike Lupati -- upgrade at G.

** Chris Harris -- upgrade at CB and hurts a divisional rival

* Mark Ingram -- RB depth and capable starter

For sentimental reasons I would like to see Woodson return and hope the Raiders send him out a winner.

 
Demaryius re-signs. Broncos have plenty of cap room, for what they need to do. More likely that Julius Thomas hits the market.

Yo wanna have some fun on that page, go look at cap space, and check those teams with no space next year, and look at their free agents. Saints/Cowboys/Cards/Fins, all those teams have some troubles.

Where it gets interesting is when the new coaching staff is in place. Any coaches that have history with any FAs, have a much more likely chance of arriving in Oakland.

 
massraider said:
Demaryius re-signs. Broncos have plenty of cap room, for what they need to do. More likely that Julius Thomas hits the market.

Yo wanna have some fun on that page, go look at cap space, and check those teams with no space next year, and look at their free agents. Saints/Cowboys/Cards/Fins, all those teams have some troubles.

Where it gets interesting is when the new coaching staff is in place. Any coaches that have history with any FAs, have a much more likely chance of arriving in Oakland.
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Will be very interesting to see what happens with Murray and Dez.

 
What is Giants defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul worth?


jason-pierre-pauljpg-1b1eba3cf0db4390.jpg

The Giants have a decision to make on defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul this offseason. (Andrew Mills | NJ Advance Media)
Print
By Jordan Raanan | NJ Advance Media for NJ.com Email the author | Follow on Twitter

on December 11, 2014 at 8:00 AM, updated December 11, 2014 at 3:44 PM




Defensive end Jason Pierre-Paul wants to be a"Giant for life." So did Justin Tuck.

Tuck, now in Oakland, could have been, if he was willing to return at the Giants price. Unfortunately, the team that drafted him wanted him back at bargain-basement value.

Tuck wasn't about to settle. The Giants had a fixed number in mind. It just wasn't a number that ever crossed Tuck's mind coming off an 11-sack season. He got $11 million for two years from the Raiders. He said he would have taken $8 million for two years from the Giants, who wouldn't even go there.

The moral of the story is that this is a business. It's almost always about the money. It was about the money with Tuck and will be about the money this offseason when Pierre-Paul hits free agency.

The tough part of this situation will be determining what Pierre-Paul is worth. He was a star-in-the-making in 2011 when he recorded 16.5 sacks, but hasn't come close to replicating that since. His value has diminished greatly.

"He's not that guy right now," said former NFL agent and current salary cap expertJoel Corry. "I just don't see him breaking the bank in free agency."

Injuries ruined the previous two seasons for Pierre-Paul, and this year has been an eye-opening experience. Pierre-Paul is one of the league's best run-stopping 4-3 defensive ends. Pro Football Focus has him as the top-ranked run stuffer (+17.0) by a wide margin.


But Pierre-Paul has been a pedestrian pass rusher (+1.2) and has 7.0 sacks in 13 games despite being relatively healthy. And 3.5 of those sacks came the past two weeks against Jacksonville's struggling young left tackle Luke Joeckel and Tennessee's third-stringer Will Svitek.

Pierre-Paul hasn't shown a wide array of pass-rushing moves. He's still heavily reliant on the bull rush. His power and agility, however, remain impressive.

So what is all this worth for a player that turns 26 next year?

The Ceiling: Mario Williams money

Williams received a six-year, $96 million with $50 million guaranteed from the Bills in 2012. That's $16 million per year. Williams was 27 at the time and coming off an injury that limited him to five games in 2011 with the Texans. The previous two seasons he had 8.5 and 9.0 sacks. Williams was four years removed from his last double-digit sack season when he signed with Buffalo.

Teams would have to consider Pierre-Paul a perennial double-digit sack guy moving forward to get anywhere near that $16 million per year number. They would have to think more years like 2011 are in his future. Pierre-Paul has a lot of work left to do in the final three weeks to make that happen.

"If he can put together a run of sacks towards the end, maybe some team will think they're getting the old JPP and then you pay him a premium," Corry said. "You pay guys who can get to the quarterback a premium, but he's not this now."

The Likely Scenario: Michael Johnson money

Michael Johnson was an excellent run-stuffing defensive end for the Cincinnati Bengals. He had one double-digit sack season under his belt when he hit free agency earlier this year.

Johnson had just turned 27 and received a five-year, $43 million deal ($8.6 million per year) with $23 million guaranteed from Tampa Bay Bucs. This is likely closer to where Pierre-Paul fits in at this point of his career.

"He's having what I call a Michael Johnson-type season, because Michael Johnson in 2013 was a force against the run, a mediocre player as a pass-rusher," Corry said.

Michael Bennett, 28, landed a deal in the same $8 million range with the Seahawks this year as well off 8.5 sacks and solid production against the run. Pierre-Paul's final 2014 production will likely be similar. The only difference is he'll be two years younger.

The $8-10 million range appears the most likely scenario for Pierre-Paul. The $12 million range could be an option if he finishes this season strong, especially some of the top pass-rushers on the market (Pierre-Paul, Washington's Brian Orakpo and Carolina's Greg Hardy) filled with question marks.

No Chance: The franchise tag

The Giants, who don't use the franchise tag, are expected to have somewhere slightly over $20 million to spend this offseason, if they so choose. They're not going to put $15 million of that into Pierre-Paul on the franchise tag.

You can pretty much rule this option out already.


 
If Tuck could convince JPP to come here, he'd be worth his contract with us. Love to offer him a big roster bonus up front, and make his salary cap numbers later on smaller.

Raiders can offer a lot of money up front, which is definitely an advantage.

 
krsone21 said:
T.J. Carrie Is Unheralded Star of Raiders' Rookie Class

By Christopher Hansen

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2297661-tj-carrie-is-unheralded-star-of-raiders-rookie-class

This is a good read.
Click to expand...
Yet another reason why I would like to see Reggie Mac retained. In nearly 30 years as a Raider fan, I can't recall seeing anything remotely close to this much draft success. The 2014 draft was arguably the best in the league and the 2014/2015 classes combined are shaping up to be top 5-10, at least.

RM clearly has a keen eye for talent. He deserves a second chance at finding the right coach to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he will get that chance and the checkbook needed to get the right coach.

 
LawFitz said:
krsone21 said:
T.J. Carrie Is Unheralded Star of Raiders' Rookie Class

By Christopher Hansen

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2297661-tj-carrie-is-unheralded-star-of-raiders-rookie-class

This is a good read.
Click to expand...
Yet another reason why I would like to see Reggie Mac retained. In nearly 30 years as a Raider fan, I can't recall seeing anything remotely close to this much draft success. The 2014 draft was arguably the best in the league and the 2014/2015 classes combined are shaping up to be top 5-10, at least.

RM clearly has a keen eye for talent. He deserves a second chance at finding the right coach to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he will get that chance and the checkbook needed to get the right coach.
Click to expand...
This is my line of thinking. He's whiffed in the draft when he had limited picks to work with, but everyone does. With a near complement of picks he's had a solid and an excellent draft. I'd give him one more draft to fill the talent pool and hopefully he can get the right coach for all this talent.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Thanks for the link, mass. I recall Kirwin making a very strong case for targeting players on their second contract. Historically these type of signs have a much higher success rate than the type of signings Reggie pursued this last offseason. These are generally players around 27 yo. Players that may be a fit for the Raiders (besides Suh):

* Ray Maualuga -- would fill a big need at MLB

** JPP -- young pass rushing DE

*** Dem Thomas -- instantly upgrades the WR position while weakening a divisional opponent

* Mike Lupati -- upgrade at G.

** Chris Harris -- upgrade at CB and hurts a divisional rival

* Mark Ingram -- RB depth and capable starter

For sentimental reasons I would like to see Woodson return and hope the Raiders send him out a winner.
Click to expand...
Harris just got an extension in Den. Does that make DT or JT less likely to be retained?

 
LawFitz said:
krsone21 said:
T.J. Carrie Is Unheralded Star of Raiders' Rookie Class

By Christopher Hansen

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2297661-tj-carrie-is-unheralded-star-of-raiders-rookie-class

This is a good read.
Click to expand...
Yet another reason why I would like to see Reggie Mac retained. In nearly 30 years as a Raider fan, I can't recall seeing anything remotely close to this much draft success. The 2014 draft was arguably the best in the league and the 2014/2015 classes combined are shaping up to be top 5-10, at least.

RM clearly has a keen eye for talent. He deserves a second chance at finding the right coach to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he will get that chance and the checkbook needed to get the right coach.
Click to expand...
Assuming RM gets another shot at drafting for the raiders next year. How does he go about improving his work in the FA market? and who do you think would be in his short list of potential guys for the HC position?

 
According to Wikipedia, Gruden was at GB from 92-94 and McKenzie was there 94-2011.

No clue if they overlapped in 94 or not.

 
You wouldn't at this point. It would likely be deemed as tampering if a specific team was in the convo. Since Harbaugh is still under contract it would b an odd convo for him to have anyways. But make no mistake, he will demand that type of control in his next job because of his experience with Baalke. BTW, this isn't some theory I am pulling outta of my rear, it was stated by Gannon and Kirwin this past week on Sirius.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Is this the sameTim Brown that said Callahan threw the Supr bowl: http://track.securebean.com/base.php?c=5&key=77481e28fab2eb4976341c97c56e9e71

No credibility at all. From what I am reading I get the impression Tommy boy really wants to stay in Oaktown.
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If you read the article Tim Brown says the preferred option is Oakland but if Oakland can't get it done that San Antonio is a viable option because they offered a GREAT package for the Raiders to move to San Antonio. I don't see the problem with what he said and I agree with him.

 
Good luck to us today.

If the Raiders can beat this KC team twice in a season, on the road, after we embarassed them 2 weeks ago, with their playoff hopes in the balance, THAT would be a very good sign of things to come.

 
LawFitz said:
krsone21 said:
T.J. Carrie Is Unheralded Star of Raiders' Rookie Class

By Christopher Hansen

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2297661-tj-carrie-is-unheralded-star-of-raiders-rookie-class

This is a good read.
Click to expand...
Yet another reason why I would like to see Reggie Mac retained. In nearly 30 years as a Raider fan, I can't recall seeing anything remotely close to this much draft success. The 2014 draft was arguably the best in the league and the 2014/2015 classes combined are shaping up to be top 5-10, at least.

RM clearly has a keen eye for talent. He deserves a second chance at finding the right coach to take this team to the next level. Hopefully he will get that chance and the checkbook needed to get the right coach.
Click to expand...
I don't see anything he's done to get fired. The team he inherited was a complete mess and there wasn't any way they were going to win many games this year no matter what he did.

 
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