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2014 Oakland Raiders Regular Season Thread (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Raiderfan32904
- Start date
LawFitz
Footballguy
IF Watson can play LT and they intend to use Saffold at LG and Howard at RT, then the OL has improved, despite the loss of the hulk. Couple that with front loaded contracts and we'll be able to add more pieces in the next few years as these two controversial deals ease their burden on the cap. On the surface, what Reggie & Co. have done so far looks like crap. But deeper analysis reveals a grander scheme (hopefully) that makes a little more sense, except that I read at least one rumor that the coaching staff thinks Watson might be a bust. If that's true, then this is all for naught, but if he can play effectively at LT, then all of this falls into place, since his uber cheap salary the next three years will offset paying top dollar for LG and RT.
massraider
Footballguy
The O-line will be improved either way. If Saffold is at LT, and Howard at RT, that's already better.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Damn right it was. He waited till the 11th hour to have serious contract negotiations with Veldheer. Veldheer let him know it didn't sit right with his camp. Then Veldheer's bro steps in (the clueless lawyer) and starts asking for ridiculous money as things got personal since Reggie was lowballing. Veldheer screwed up big time firing his agent and hiring his bro. He left money on the table when talks got heated. Sometimes all that it takes is for people to get really pissed off to make irrational decisions. Reggie should not have lowballed, and then come back up to slightly above fair market value. He took a chance he could get Veldheer cheap and lost that gamble. Veldheer tucked tail and ran to Arizona moreso out of pride than anything else, but don't think Reggie's ego or bullheadedness didn't help push him out the door. In a negotiation like this, you need a professional agent to step in and clear the air of personal differences and go over the facts and the money. I still blame Reggie for not tagging Veldheer or being up front with contract negotiations at an earlier stage. I also blame Veldheer's brother who likely will never handle another pro sports negotiation in his life.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Regarding Saffold, when you look at pro bowl LT Jason Peters ($19 mil), top 10 LT by PFF rankings Eugene Monroe ($19 mil), and Jared Veldheer ($17 mil), how does a guard negotiate a $21 mil salary? How is that not ridiculous? Even if you buy the argument of Saffold's upside. Don't you get a buyers market discount since he was playing last year as a guard? Why pay him as an LT if his most recent experience is at guard?
I smell damage control by the Raiders organization. Old school propaganda at its finest.
ICON211
Footballguy
<script language='javascript'> </script>
Are you of the mind that Reggie has done a good job in FA so far?
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
http://cover32.com/raiders/2014/03/12/oakland-raiders-jared-veldheer-nfl-free-agency/
More on the botched JV negotiation here.
More on the botched JV negotiation here.
massraider
Footballguy
For sure. Any story that is not negative-Raider must be propaganda.
Especially because this Oakland front office has shown a propensity for just that kind of chicanery.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
It all could have been avoided with the franchise tag early
massraider
Footballguy
I think Saffold was paid too much. But I am not mad at getting the player.
I think Veldheer and Houston both signed reasonable deals, and I personally, would have given them those deals. I also saw Robert Ayers eat Veldheers lunch, so it's not like I think he is Walter Jones or anything.
No, I am not a fan of what they have done in free agency. I would have loved to see Talib and Veldheer and Houston all at a press conference in Oakland. I also realize that free agency isn't just one day.
But I also predicted this a few days ago, that I wouldn't have been surprised if the Raiders sat out the initial wave of big money guys. The Raiders need SO many new players, that instead of three 10 mill per year players, maybe they get 6 5 mill per year players.
I posted a list of all the big money deals from last year, and asked which of those contracts people would like to take on. That post was ignored because, frankly, so many of those deals look awful only a year later, it's laughable. Mike Wallace, Jared Cook, on and on. Jumping in with both feet on the first day of free agency has proven, almost every single year, to be a major mistake.
I think it's a make or break year for Reggie/Allen, but I am willing to let it play out. I am willing to see if Hayden/Watson/Bergstrom/Murray develop, etc. I am willing to see what they do with a clean slate, and some cap space.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
some asked up thread, what drama? well there's plenty of drama in the whole JV negotiation. you just had to wait for it all to come afloat.
massraider
Footballguy
http://grantland.com/the-triangle/the-perks-of-being-patient-in-nfl-free-agency/
The Perks of Being Patient in NFL Free AgencyNFL
MARCH 12, 2014by ROBERT MAYS
The start of spring is typically a healthy time for retailers. April is full of sales on clothes and shiny new electronics — really, any extravagance that would normally be outside a budget. It’s a way to take advantage of people who see their tax refunds as found money, a lump of cash not planned for and perfect for their annual treat-yo-self spending spree. Well, every NFL team just got its refund, and from the way money was tossed around yesterday, it wasn’t just burning a hole in pockets. It was apparently threatening to burn some GMs alive.
When the news came out last week that the league’s salary cap would settle at about $133 million, it meant the market would be much kinder than it was a year ago, but I don’t know if anyone imagined the dollars flying like they did. As Bill Barnwell mentioned, while the deals kept rolling in past midnight on the East Coast, NFL teams handed out more than $1 billion in the first day of free agency.
Every year, the same debate emerges about free agency. “Teams that throw money around in March never win in January,” say the people who hate fun. And to a point, they’re right. One of Vince Young’s lasting NFL moments will be him sitting in front of a microphone saying “Dream Team” and forever dampening any enthusiasm for huge free-agent hauls.
Still, what went on from 4 p.m. ET Tuesday until the early hours of this morning was undeniably exciting. By dinner, I was starting to wonder if ESPN had paid a sketchy Krieger-esque doctor to turn Adam Schefter into a cyborg. The Jairus Byrd and Aqib Talib signings were genuinely shocking (and somewhat dumbfounding). And imagining DeMarcus Ware in Denver or Darrelle Revis in New England was genuinely terrifying. In all, the whole thing was pretty damn fun. So much so, that by the time it all started to wind down, another yearly free-agent tradition began: beat writers for historically patient teams talking fans off the edge. With all the cash that was handed out, tossed in the air, or lit on fire, coming away with nothing was even more notable than usual. The good news for those fans is that free agency isn’t over. It’s barely started.
Teams that give out massive guarantees on the first couple of days don’t usually see a great return. Ask the Dolphins how Dannell Ellerbe and Mike Wallace have worked out so far. And while you do, it’s probably worth seeing how Ryan Grigson feels about Erik Walden after Year 1. Why? Well, players who hit the open market hit it for a reason. And if a team has a ton of money to throw away on outside players, it probably hasn’t had to spend a lot to retain its own. A lack of draft success often means a lack of winning, which is followed by trying to buy wins, which is followed by cap issues, and so on, and vicious cycle, and you get it.
This doesn’t mean free agency itself is a mug’s game. Teams just need to have the right philosophy in their approach. The Broncos are clearly all in this year while they know Peyton Manning still has all his limbs, but last year, the approach was a little different. Wes Welker and Louis Vasquez got paid, but Welker’s deal was relatively short-term and Vasquez didn’t break the bank. For the most part, Denver’s free agents were players who got one- or two-year deals when the market proved unkind: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, one year, $5 million; Shaun Phillips, one year, $1 million; Terrance Knighton, two years, $4 million; Kevin Vickerson, two years, $5 million. The first three all had notable contributions to a Super Bowl run, and Vickerson likely would have, had he not gotten hurt before the playoffs.
The Seahawks were no different. Michael Bennett came on for a year; Cliff Avril is aboard for two. Both were dominant at times in the playoffs, with Avril having a legitimate case for MVP of the Super Bowl. Elsewhere in the NFC West, Karlos Dansby, on a one-year deal with the Cardinals, was a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. His former team, the Dolphins, found its own short-term bargain in Brent Grimes. Everywhere you looked, the best signings of the offseason seemed to be players brought in on prove-it deals, and in a lot of cases, they did.
There’s also something to be said for finding players who can’t help but be motivated. Whether it’s the humbling experience of finding a barren market or knowing they have a single year to show they deserve a long-term deal, players on short contracts can be not only fiscally responsible, but competitively responsible, too.
All this is important to remember as some fans watch the dollar figures scroll by while the holes on their teams’ rosters remain unaddressed. Many of the teams that didn’t spend yesterday chose not to for real reasons. The Chiefs let three potential starters walk away because they didn’t have much choice, with only $9 million or so in cap room and $115 million in contracts already committed next year, without deals for Justin Houston and whoever’s playing quarterback. Seattle has contracts looming for Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas, both of whom, based on the deals handed out yesterday, are going to get paid an amount our current, human math can’t actually account for. Other teams, like the Packers, Jets, and Bengals, just seem to be waiting out the storm. The Jets have a ton of space, but look committed to not overspending. When right tackle Austin Howard signed with the Raiders, it was apparently after John Idzik had “drawn a line in the sand” he wasn’t willing to cross, even with some $38 million in room. Idzik isn’t in a hurry. And Green Bay’s Ted Thompson — well, he never is. The Packers paid big money to keep Sam Shields last week, but anyone expecting more huge checks for players like T.J. Ward or Byrd hasn’t been paying attention.
Green Bay has needs, especially on defense, but just because the Packers didn’t show anyone the money yesterday doesn’t mean they won’t. Chris Clemons, the Dolphins version, is still around. Antonio Smith has experience in a 3-4 and still has plenty left in the tank. Randy Starks is plenty versatile and still around, too. Anthony Spencer could probably be had on the cheap.
Signing free agents isn’t evil; stupidly signing undeserving ones is. At the combine last month, I asked Cardinals GM Steve Keim if all the stopgap deals he used last spring, Dansby’s in particular, were part of his team-building strategy, a way to fill needs while maintaining flexibility in the future. His answer made it sound simpler than that. For Arizona, free agency, like the draft, he explained, revolves around a board. A player is assigned a value, and if the market outpaces that value, that player falls off the board. The deals Arizona eventually made — for Dansby, Matt Shaughnessy, and John Abraham — lined up with its board. They were available for the right price.
This year is a little different, with more money to spend and more teams willing to spend it. But every year, there are the players the market forgets, and often, those players are the ones worth having.
The Perks of Being Patient in NFL Free AgencyNFL
MARCH 12, 2014by ROBERT MAYS
When the news came out last week that the league’s salary cap would settle at about $133 million, it meant the market would be much kinder than it was a year ago, but I don’t know if anyone imagined the dollars flying like they did. As Bill Barnwell mentioned, while the deals kept rolling in past midnight on the East Coast, NFL teams handed out more than $1 billion in the first day of free agency.
Every year, the same debate emerges about free agency. “Teams that throw money around in March never win in January,” say the people who hate fun. And to a point, they’re right. One of Vince Young’s lasting NFL moments will be him sitting in front of a microphone saying “Dream Team” and forever dampening any enthusiasm for huge free-agent hauls.
Still, what went on from 4 p.m. ET Tuesday until the early hours of this morning was undeniably exciting. By dinner, I was starting to wonder if ESPN had paid a sketchy Krieger-esque doctor to turn Adam Schefter into a cyborg. The Jairus Byrd and Aqib Talib signings were genuinely shocking (and somewhat dumbfounding). And imagining DeMarcus Ware in Denver or Darrelle Revis in New England was genuinely terrifying. In all, the whole thing was pretty damn fun. So much so, that by the time it all started to wind down, another yearly free-agent tradition began: beat writers for historically patient teams talking fans off the edge. With all the cash that was handed out, tossed in the air, or lit on fire, coming away with nothing was even more notable than usual. The good news for those fans is that free agency isn’t over. It’s barely started.
Teams that give out massive guarantees on the first couple of days don’t usually see a great return. Ask the Dolphins how Dannell Ellerbe and Mike Wallace have worked out so far. And while you do, it’s probably worth seeing how Ryan Grigson feels about Erik Walden after Year 1. Why? Well, players who hit the open market hit it for a reason. And if a team has a ton of money to throw away on outside players, it probably hasn’t had to spend a lot to retain its own. A lack of draft success often means a lack of winning, which is followed by trying to buy wins, which is followed by cap issues, and so on, and vicious cycle, and you get it.
This doesn’t mean free agency itself is a mug’s game. Teams just need to have the right philosophy in their approach. The Broncos are clearly all in this year while they know Peyton Manning still has all his limbs, but last year, the approach was a little different. Wes Welker and Louis Vasquez got paid, but Welker’s deal was relatively short-term and Vasquez didn’t break the bank. For the most part, Denver’s free agents were players who got one- or two-year deals when the market proved unkind: Dominique Rodgers-Cromartie, one year, $5 million; Shaun Phillips, one year, $1 million; Terrance Knighton, two years, $4 million; Kevin Vickerson, two years, $5 million. The first three all had notable contributions to a Super Bowl run, and Vickerson likely would have, had he not gotten hurt before the playoffs.
The Seahawks were no different. Michael Bennett came on for a year; Cliff Avril is aboard for two. Both were dominant at times in the playoffs, with Avril having a legitimate case for MVP of the Super Bowl. Elsewhere in the NFC West, Karlos Dansby, on a one-year deal with the Cardinals, was a Defensive Player of the Year candidate. His former team, the Dolphins, found its own short-term bargain in Brent Grimes. Everywhere you looked, the best signings of the offseason seemed to be players brought in on prove-it deals, and in a lot of cases, they did.
There’s also something to be said for finding players who can’t help but be motivated. Whether it’s the humbling experience of finding a barren market or knowing they have a single year to show they deserve a long-term deal, players on short contracts can be not only fiscally responsible, but competitively responsible, too.
All this is important to remember as some fans watch the dollar figures scroll by while the holes on their teams’ rosters remain unaddressed. Many of the teams that didn’t spend yesterday chose not to for real reasons. The Chiefs let three potential starters walk away because they didn’t have much choice, with only $9 million or so in cap room and $115 million in contracts already committed next year, without deals for Justin Houston and whoever’s playing quarterback. Seattle has contracts looming for Richard Sherman and Earl Thomas, both of whom, based on the deals handed out yesterday, are going to get paid an amount our current, human math can’t actually account for. Other teams, like the Packers, Jets, and Bengals, just seem to be waiting out the storm. The Jets have a ton of space, but look committed to not overspending. When right tackle Austin Howard signed with the Raiders, it was apparently after John Idzik had “drawn a line in the sand” he wasn’t willing to cross, even with some $38 million in room. Idzik isn’t in a hurry. And Green Bay’s Ted Thompson — well, he never is. The Packers paid big money to keep Sam Shields last week, but anyone expecting more huge checks for players like T.J. Ward or Byrd hasn’t been paying attention.
Green Bay has needs, especially on defense, but just because the Packers didn’t show anyone the money yesterday doesn’t mean they won’t. Chris Clemons, the Dolphins version, is still around. Antonio Smith has experience in a 3-4 and still has plenty left in the tank. Randy Starks is plenty versatile and still around, too. Anthony Spencer could probably be had on the cheap.
Signing free agents isn’t evil; stupidly signing undeserving ones is. At the combine last month, I asked Cardinals GM Steve Keim if all the stopgap deals he used last spring, Dansby’s in particular, were part of his team-building strategy, a way to fill needs while maintaining flexibility in the future. His answer made it sound simpler than that. For Arizona, free agency, like the draft, he explained, revolves around a board. A player is assigned a value, and if the market outpaces that value, that player falls off the board. The deals Arizona eventually made — for Dansby, Matt Shaughnessy, and John Abraham — lined up with its board. They were available for the right price.
This year is a little different, with more money to spend and more teams willing to spend it. But every year, there are the players the market forgets, and often, those players are the ones worth having.
massraider
Footballguy
Any interest in Revis?
ICON211
Footballguy
<script language='javascript'> </script>
If they do not have to trade for him and can sign him after he is released I think it is definitely worth exploring.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
RaiderBones
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Lamar Woodley saying goodbye to Pitt via Twitter.
Looking forward to seeing contract deal.
There's your replacement for Houston at LE, by the way.
Looking forward to seeing contract deal.
There's your replacement for Houston at LE, by the way.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
meh. better not be a huge contract. and pitt cut him straight up. he was leaving regardless
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I think it's way too soon to draw that conclusion. Ostensibly, we took a hit at LT and upgrade the RT. And let's just forget about the RT we drafted in the second round last year. Let's sweep that under the carpet. To your point, I sure hope the line is better. But that's just a bunch of hot air to say it got worse or better. We'll see.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
and all the feel good #### is just that, feel good ####.
we overpaid for both those linemen and could have kept JV with the tag. we'll see how the rest of the free agent period plays out
we overpaid for both those linemen and could have kept JV with the tag. we'll see how the rest of the free agent period plays out
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
I think Woodley offers versatility. No, they are not going to a 3-4. I thin k he is still a better pass rusher than Houston will ever be.
massraider
Footballguy
Pitt cut him because they have serious cap problems, not because he's done. Come on, man.
Last edited by a moderator:
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Right! I'm down with some versatility. Seems to be the catchphrase these days. I would really be happy if we got Tuck as well. But I'm greedy.
massraider
Footballguy
I think Tuck, Hatcher are both strong possibilities. We need two DEs. Tuck at RE makes sense.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
not what i meant, he's saying goodbye regardless. it doesn't mean he's sjgning with the raiders. he's a solid player, not exciting, but solid.
massraider
Footballguy
He's saying goodbye the 2nd day of free agency, in the midst of a visit in Oakland?
That would certainly be a weird Twitter choice. Although I guess they have happened before.
That would certainly be a weird Twitter choice. Although I guess they have happened before.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
both are too "high profile" for the trend i'm starting to see in mckenzie. he's trying too hard, imho, to find the diamonds in the rough. he seems to go for the midtier guys who have something to prove or the hurt players way too often.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
massraider
Footballguy
Was he just released today??
massraider
Footballguy
Tuck is in Oakland now, anmd hatcher is scheduled to visit. I am not pulling these names out of my bum.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
he was released yesterday smart ###.
i already capitulated and said he very well may be signing with the raiders. wasn't good enough for you, huh?
ICON211
Footballguy
<script language='javascript'> </script>
I don't think he is completely done, but he is on the downside. I think Houston at this point is clearly a better player. He has also played OLB his entire career and is injury prone.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i know that. hatcher was also in seattle. being in oakland is great and all, but until something is signed, it doesn't mean squadoosche
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I like the fact that a whole slew of DLine prospects are in Oakland at the same time & same place. Hoping the whole recruiting shpiel gets them excited about working together while distancing the more recent Raiders image of a woeful franchise. That they will consider the opportunity and jump at it while it's in front of them. Start to build something new.
massraider
Footballguy
I imagine you'll be able to find the bad in any signing the Raiders make.
We didn't franchise Veldheer, I get it. We definitely should have paid him 3 mill more than anyone else was willing to.
We didn't franchise Veldheer, I get it. We definitely should have paid him 3 mill more than anyone else was willing to.
massraider
Footballguy
I am still hoping for some DTs. Hatcher and Raji would be nice.
Like to see Raji in a 4-3 for once.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
from jerry mac
"Notice the Bucs confirm free agent visits The Raiders do not confirm. And not everyone reported to visit actually does. Plans change."
@ mass
"Notice the Bucs confirm free agent visits The Raiders do not confirm. And not everyone reported to visit actually does. Plans change."
@ mass
massraider
Footballguy
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
I'm not a big Raji fan. I used to be one back in the day when he was drafted. I remember scouting reports of him being a huge space eating NT with Teddy Washington upside for sacks. And maybe some of it is scheme, but I can't understand how he never got pressure on the QB and hasn't had a sack in like 30 or so games? Recent scouting reports on Raji say he's just another guy and a bust compared to where he was picked. Now he might be ok to sign on the cheap and rotate in, but I'm not going to get too excited about Raji.
massraider
Footballguy
Revis released. I don't think we will be players for him, seems like a LOT of other teams are after him.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
Personally, I don't want him. Too much money and we aren't a Darelle Revis away from the playoffs anyway. Look at the moves the Broncos made today. If I thought Revis could put us over the top, I'd co-sign. But he's nothing more than a one year stop gap mercenary. Pass....Hope Cleveland takes him.
massraider
Footballguy
We aren't any one player away from the playoffs. We aren't a Teddy Bridegewater away from the playoffs either. But I would draft him.
Revis is better than any player that was on the market. If he signs for 11 mill, or about the same as franchising Veldheer, I don't get why you wouldn't go after the best player available.
Raiderfan32904
Footballguy
One, most important is that I do not think that Darelle Revis makes himself available to the Oakland Raiders for just $11 million. He might to a contender like New England, but to Oakland? Nahh! Two, I think drafting a Teddy B is waaay different than renting an aging corner. Revis the year after next is a memory if he comes to Oakland. Not a guy you could count on as a core player. And all I hear out of Oakland HQ is that they are really trying to build a core around a handful of special players. Revis is special, but he'll never be about the core of any team.
massraider
Footballguy
I think he'll find plenty of suitors paying the same, so I agree with you.
Revis is only 28, isn't he?
Revis is only 28, isn't he?
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I wanted to use the TRANSITION tag on Veldheer. Issue solve. Reggie would have sent a message to JV's bother to pound sand and take his emotional baggage elsewhere for a deal. The Raiders would then have had the choice to match or decline the offer without getting emotional. I was pretty pissed when they lost JV.
The signings of Howard is an upgrade at RT over Barnes /Pathos. Saffold is penciled in at LT for now, but it would not surprise me if Watson wins the job. Watson will only be a bust if he remains injury prone. He has a great feet and explosion. Saffold provides vesitilty as he can play guard ( maybe his strongest position). I don't know much about Howard but if the Jets were trying hard to re-sign him it indicates he has some ability. Did Reggie botch Veldheer's negotiations? Yes. Did Reggie pay above market price for Saffold and Howard? Seems so. Did the Raiders get better across the oline after yesterday's flurry of activity? Quite possibly.
Sparano will be very busy this season.
Looks like the focus now turns to defense. Can Woodly and Tuck still play? I would be much happier signing Jared Allen than Tuck. Allen has a consistent track record of production and good health. I think he would also be a great mentor in teaching the young pups how to compete. Add in Revis, bring back Sims and this woould start to feel like a big step foward for the defense.
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