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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (2 Viewers)

TobiasFunke said:
I suppose. I think Steph was still struggling with his injury in the first few games of that OKC series though, which is really the only time they truly struggled. That OKC series was just weird- throw that one out and I think their run will ultimately end up looking like any other dominant run when it's all said and done. Obviously you can't just throw those things out in these comparisons, though, so :shrug: I guess I should have known better then to dip my toe into the sort of cross-era comparison discussions I usually avoid like the plague.
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Curry's health had very little do with his struggles against the Thunder in my opinion.  The Thunder's rotation included Adams (7'0" and 7'4" wingspan), Ibaka (6'10" and 7'4" wingspan), Durant (6'10" and 7'5" wingspan), Roberson (6'7" and 6'11" wingspan) and the most athletic guard in the league.  That is a giant lineup they were able to put on the floor.  It was an extremely difficult matchup for the Warriors.  Let's also not forget the Thunder knocked off a 67 win Spurs team the series before.  They were a very good team in the playoffs.

 
I think teams are more in tune with rest and try to get players to rest as much as they can. This leads to the bench clearing out and intensity of the game dropping earlier. More garbage time + more 3 pointers = larger blow outs.

 
bananafish said:
I'm a huge Golden State homer and even I don't think they're the Greatest Team Ever, far from it. Does Varejao even sniff the floor on those '96 Bulls, '86 Celtics or '87 Lakers teams? Case closed.

IMO it'll take 1-2 more rings with this core and a couple years of perspective before the discussion gets serious. And that's assuming they win this year.

I'll add that really the only reason I'm rooting for Durant to leave OKC is to go to the East (Celtics, probably) and generate a years-long East/West rivalry with the Warriors like the Celts/Lakers of the 80s. That would be awesome. The Cavaliers just don't seem up to the task.

Also, does anyone have any theories as to why we've seen all these blowouts back-and-forth, not just in the Finals but the conference championships (and I think earlier rounds as well)? Is it the unreliability/prevalence of the 3 pointer? That doesn't seem like enough. I'm actually surprised that I haven't heard any theories bandied about yet as it sure seems remarkable. I guess people will probably start talking about it now after last night's massacre.
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You're acting like Varejao has been eating up minutes. He has 65 for the entirety of the playoffs, well over half of them are coming in games that were decided by more than 20 points. He hasn't hardly played in games that were within 10 points (11 minutes total in 8 games). Each of those teams played somebody worse for at least 65 minutes of the playoffs.

 
bananafish said:
So does Lue start Love the next game? I would think not but what about his fragile psyche? Won't somebody think about the psyche?
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I would be surprised if he did especially since James isn't a big fan of Love.  

Love is a dream matchup for the Warriors offense.  I'm still not too concerned even with Jefferson in there.

 
No. 16 said:
I think teams are more in tune with rest and try to get players to rest as much as they can. This leads to the bench clearing out and intensity of the game dropping earlier. More garbage time + more 3 pointers = larger blow outs.
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I'm not sure about other teams, but the Warriors are huge on keeping track of their players health.  One of the big changes they made was flying the day after a game instead of late at night so their players could get a better sleep.  I do find it interesting that Kerr has performed so poorly in game 3, but it could just be random noise.  They are 0-4 this year with three blow out losses.  The goal is to win the series, not sweep.  

 
tjnc09 said:
I would be surprised if he did especially since James isn't a big fan of Love.  

Love is a dream matchup for the Warriors offense.  I'm still not too concerned even with Jefferson in there.
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How do you know James isn't a big fan of love?

 
Regarding the '96 Bulls vs the '16 Warriors and who is better, there is no doubt that the Warriors are deeper.  Imagine that Bulls team taking a 2-1 series lead with their two best players drastically underachieving.  Never would have happen.  Jordan and Pippen putting up numbers way under their normal averages in three consecutive finals would have equaled defeats, not a series lead.  That is how good this Warrior team is, that Curry and Thompson can both struggle and they can still won two of the three games so far without breaking a sweat in the 4th Q of each game. 

 
tjnc09 said:
Definitely not taking it personally.

There is no reason to take your basketball opinions seriously.
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Ah.. are we taking this serious now?

Nobody told me.  Regardless.. you are a being a little touchy here, kind of like the defense Cleveland used to shut Steph down.  

 
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^seriously. You seem like a smart dude, if you could stop being a ##### all the time that would be great. 

 
The Simmons/Gladwell podcast got me thinking.

Won't Lebron make more money if he took less and won titles in Cleveland?  Endorsement-wise.  Talking long-term.  Rest of his life.

Why can't Cleveland go after Durant?

With all the cap-space this offseason you could give Thompson away for a 2nd-rounder after this season.  Same with Frye and perhaps Shumpert.  Those contracts can be moved.

They talk of Ezeli getting 15/mill per this offeason.

Cleveland could gut their roster if they wanted too.

 
Ghost Rider said:
Regarding the '96 Bulls vs the '16 Warriors and who is better, there is no doubt that the Warriors are deeper.  Imagine that Bulls team taking a 2-1 series lead with their two best players drastically underachieving.  Never would have happen.  Jordan and Pippen putting up numbers way under their normal averages in three consecutive finals would have equaled defeats, not a series lead.  That is how good this Warrior team is, that Curry and Thompson can both struggle and they can still won two of the three games so far without breaking a sweat in the 4th Q of each game. 
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I can't imagine Jordan drastically underachieving in half of a playoff series.   Even while terribly sick, banged up, whatever the case may be.   And no matter who they decided to use to try and stop him.  That's the difference between him and guys like Lebron/Curry.   And the 96' Bulls and everyone else.

 
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Huge test for Steph tonight trying to get a Finals win in the new Curry II Lows. Yesterday might have been the internet highlight of the season.

 
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Apparently so -

The ratings across the slate of MLB games for Monday—a historically slow day of the week for MLB—saw 6 out of the 11 teams beat Game 4 by 100% or more in the ratings.
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My bet for this game - the refs call the touch fouls against Curry early, he gets to free throw line.  Cavs back off, we see Curr/Thompson again.

 
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DrJ said:
I can't imagine Jordan drastically underachieving in half of a playoff series.   Even while terribly sick, banged up, whatever the case may be.   And no matter who they decided to use to try and stop him.  That's the difference between him and guys like Lebron/Curry.   And the 96' Bulls and everyone else.
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The Spurs disagree with you.  They won five rings not giving a crap who scores.  

 
TobiasFunke said:
Huge test for Steph tonight trying to get a Finals win in the new Curry II Lows. Yesterday might have been the internet highlight of the season.
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Some of those names were spot on.  They are so plain looking - no clue what they were thinking with that design.

He was moving so weird in game 3.  I hope he doesn't have a contractual obligation with UA to wear them if it was messing with his comfort level.  

 
DrJ said:
I can't imagine Jordan drastically underachieving in half of a playoff series.   Even while terribly sick, banged up, whatever the case may be.   And no matter who they decided to use to try and stop him.  That's the difference between him and guys like Lebron/Curry.   And the 96' Bulls and everyone else.
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It's super weird that you can't even imagine Games 2, 4 and 5 and arguably even Game 1 of the 1989 Eastern Conference Finals, considering that they actually happened.  There's box scores and video and everything. 

He was particularly putrid (by Jordan standards) in Games 4 and 5, as Chicago's 2-1 series lead turned into a 3-2 deficit. Went 5 for 15 from the floor with only 2 rebounds and 4 assists to go with 5 fouls as the Bulls blew a chance to go up 3-1 at home in Game 4. Then he kinda disappeared in Game 5, taking only 8 shots and putting up an 18-5-9 line with four turnovers and three fouls despite 46 minutes on the floor. Oh, and don't tell me about how that doesn't count because it was early in his career either.  He was older than LeBron was in that famous Celtics-Cavs series, the same age as LeBron was in the Mavs-Heat Finals, and only a year younger than Curry is now.

I'm not trying to argue that Jordan was anything other than the greatest of all time.  Relative to his peers he almost certainly was the greatest of all time.  But one of the many problems with these comparisons is that people compare real people in real time to myths as we look back on their entire body of work.

 
Bulls didn't roll through all their NBA finals, either. Suns and Jazz (twice) played them tough, with very competitive games. After being blown out in game 1, Blazers were up 15 in the 4th quarter game 6 in Chicago, about to force game 7.

It wasn't inevitable that they would win all those titles. Wouldn't have taken too many different bounces for them to lose 2 or 3 of those series.

 
TobiasFunke said:
It's super weird that you can't even imagine Games 2, 4 and 5 and arguably even Game 1 of the 1989 Eastern Conference Finals, considering that they actually happened.  There's box scores and video and everything. 

He was particularly putrid (by Jordan standards) in Games 4 and 5, as Chicago's 2-1 series lead turned into a 3-2 deficit. Went 5 for 15 from the floor with only 2 rebounds and 4 assists to go with 5 fouls as the Bulls blew a chance to go up 3-1 at home in Game 4. Then he kinda disappeared in Game 5, taking only 8 shots and putting up an 18-5-9 line with four turnovers and three fouls despite 46 minutes on the floor. Oh, and don't tell me about how that doesn't count because it was early in his career either.  He was older than LeBron was in that famous Celtics-Cavs series, the same age as LeBron was in the Mavs-Heat Finals, and only a year younger than Curry is now.

I'm not trying to argue that Jordan was anything other than the greatest of all time.  Relative to his peers he almost certainly was the greatest of all time.  But one of the many problems with these comparisons is that people compare real people in real time to myths as we look back on their entire body of work.
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He was actually 2 years younger than Curry is now.   And there's also the fact he was  against a defense many consider to be among the all time greats that was constantly double teaming him while Curry's been locked down by...well...a defense that is considered not so all time great.   And Lebron...well, the Mavs.    It also helps that it was a series they really weren't even supposed to be in as they were a 6 seed that Jordan had already put on his back for 2 rounds.   They took out 3 seeded, 57 wins Cavs and the 2 seeded, 52 win Knicks (another top notch defense) with him averaging 37.5 PPG. 9.1 APG, 7.8 RPG, and 2.6 SPG along the way.    There's also the fact that those games came off the back of some nice games that included a ridiculous 46 point performance that put them up 2-1 in a series that again they weren't even supposed to be in.   It was more of a young Lebron vs Spurs moment than anything that can be credibly compared to the complete disappearing act put on by Lebron in a series where his team was heavily favored and made to look silly.  Or what Curry's done in these playoffs and especially Finals series thusfar, with the Warriors in the position of being the huge favorite. 

 
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DrJ said:
He was actually 2 years younger than Curry is now.   And there's also the fact he was  against a defense many consider to be among the all time greats that was constantly double teaming him while Curry's been locked down by...well...a defense that is considered not so all time great.   And Lebron...well, the Mavs.    It also helps that it was a series they really weren't even supposed to be in as they were a 6 seed that Jordan had already put on his back for 2 rounds.   They took out 3 seeded, 57 wins Cavs and the 2 seeded, 52 win Knicks (another top notch defense) with him averaging 37.5 PPG. 9.1 APG, 7.8 RPG, and 2.6 SPG along the way.    There's also the fact that those games came off the back of some nice games that included a ridiculous 46 point performance that put them up 2-1 in a series that again they weren't even supposed to be in.   It was more of a young Lebron vs Spurs moment than anything that can be credibly compared to the complete disappearing act put on by Lebron in a series where his team was heavily favored and made to look silly.  Or what Curry's done in these playoffs and especially Finals series thusfar, with the Warriors in the position of being the huge favorite. 
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You're moving the goalposts.  You said that you couldn't even imagine Jordan pooping the bed for half a playoff series. I was pointing out that he did. I didn't say it was worse than anything LeBron or Curry or Hezonja or any of the other current players in the mix for all-time greatness has done.

 
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