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2015 NBA Thread: I felt a great disturbance in the trolls, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror and were suddenly silenced. (2 Viewers)

Apparently Green hit James in the nuts in their altercation.  

Great job by James to provoke him with the game out of hand if he gets suspended like an idiot.

 
GOB said:
I think they gassed. 

I want to know who made the decision to play LeBron and Kyrie the entire 2h.
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I'm so sick of hearing this crap.  MJ had only one game in the finals from 95-98 where he played less than 40 minutes.  And that's because they won by 40 points in the game so they rested all their starters.

 
I was not in favor of suspension when he was sack attacking to defeat the terrorists, but am in favor of suspension now so we can extend the finals. 

 
Kev4029 said:
Because he isn't very good?

If Jeff Green has never been worth more than $9 million a year, I'm not sure why Harrison Barnes would be. Their careers are remarkably similar.

I'm really excited for somebody to max him out to be a capable 5th man.
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Can Jeff Green defend the five?

Also not sure what you think they can get as a replacement.  If they don't exercise the Bird rights of Barnes out Ezeli they will be working against a hard cap this off season. Barnes is an above average floor stretcher (39% since joining the starters) on offense and fits there defensive scheme perfectly. They will be several lesser players getting similar money and with the escalating cap his number will seen more than reasonable IMO.  As somebody else has already mentioned he if only 23 and been steadily improving. 

 
Kev4029 said:
Because he isn't very good?

If Jeff Green has never been worth more than $9 million a year, I'm not sure why Harrison Barnes would be. Their careers are remarkably similar.

I'm really excited for somebody to max him out to be a capable 5th man.
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Because the cap in 2016 and the cap in 2013 have nothing to do with each other. You're nuts if you think Barnes is getting 9 a year. Or if any NBA starter will ever see single digits ever again. 

 
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the moops said:
GS can't match a max offer to Barnes though, can they?
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They can as long as Lacob is willing to pay the luxury tax and it sounds like he is.

With Curry's extension next year, the Dubs will be over the cap for the foreseeable future so we won't have much wiggle room. I've come around to keeping Barnes because it seems like Lacob won't allow the luxury tax to affect roster moves like OKC did. Dubs will overpay for Barnes but unless we get Durant there's not much more we can replace him with if cost is not factored in.

 
Capella said:
Because the cap in 2016 and the cap in 2013 have nothing to do with each other. You're nuts if you think Barnes is getting 9 a year. Or if any NBA starter will ever see single digits ever again. 
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I think that the average starter is projected to get about 15 mil per year starting next year?  Something like that.

 
Capella said:
Because the cap in 2016 and the cap in 2013 have nothing to do with each other. You're nuts if you think Barnes is getting 9 a year. Or if any NBA starter will ever see single digits ever again. 
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I don't think he'll only get 9 a year and that wasn't my point. To make it apples to apples, Barnes first year of his post-rookie contract will be 25% of the cap if he gets a max deal, Green's first year of his post-rookie contract was 14.4% of the cap. A max deal for Barnes next year will pay him approximately 22.5 million in his first year (his max contract would be for 5/130). That takes their team salary to near $103 million with 5 more roster spots to fill. That probably wouldn't be a problem in 16-17, but in 17-18 they are going to have Curry's salary near $30 million, Barnes at 24, Thompson at 18, and Green at 16 with only Kevin Looney and this years first round pick on the roster plus whoever they resign this year or pick up with the MLE.

 
Short Corner said:
Can Jeff Green defend the five?

Also not sure what you think they can get as a replacement.  If they don't exercise the Bird rights of Barnes out Ezeli they will be working against a hard cap this off season. Barnes is an above average floor stretcher (39% since joining the starters) on offense and fits there defensive scheme perfectly. They will be several lesser players getting similar money and with the escalating cap his number will seen more than reasonable IMO.  As somebody else has already mentioned he if only 23 and been steadily improving. 
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He really hasn't improved significantly since his rookie year. His shooting percentage is also the result of him being left wide open quite often. Nearly all of his threes come wide open. 63% of his threes come when he is completely unguarded (closest defender further than 6 feet away), 30% of his threes were taken with a defender between 4-6 feet of him. The previous two years have a similar result. Hitting 40% of your open 3s in the NBA is a good thing, but not even remotely unreplaceable.

Here is a list of other forwards who they could potentially sign for the mid-level exception this offseason:

Jared Dudley has hit 48%, 38%, 38% of his wide open threes the last 3 years, plays similar defense on 3s and 4s and has a little more play making ability.

Luol Deng has hit 36%, 37%, 36% of his wide open threes, probably can't hang defensively with the 3s like he used to, but very capable against 4s, and also offers more offensively.

Jeff Green has hit 36%, 38%, and 39 % of his wide open threes, and as I mentioned earlier is Barnes' statistical doppelganger.

Marvin Williams has hit 42%, 39%, and 39% of his wide open threes, probably not the defender that Barnes is and is more of a legit 4 than a tweener.

Darrell Arthur hit 40% of his open threes last year and is an elite PF defender but shouldn't be guarding SFs full time even though Denver used him against 3s often.

He'll get more money than those players, and he deserves more as he is only 24 and still has time to improve. But, if you compare him to the other guys that I anticipate getting a max contract this offseason (Conley, DeRozan, Beal, Durant, James, Parsons, Horford, Batum, Drummond, Whiteside, Howard), he hasn't accomplished much in the NBA. Somebody is going to pay him nearly 100 million (130 in GSW's case) to be a decent to good 3-D player. He's only been as successful as he is because he never has to create his own shot (because he can't), and always gets the easiest defensive matchup on the court (partially because Thompson and Green are terrific defenders, partially because he's not a great defender).

ETA: I think that Darrell Arthur would be a ideal signing for them regardless of if they keep Barnes. He fits today's NBA as he can guard the pick and roll at an elite level and switch onto smaller players effectively plus he can hit open jump shots. I don't think he is really a 39% three point shooter like he showed this year, but he's always been a capable mid range shooter, and in the Warriors' system he would get boatloads of wide open looks and take some of the defensive pressure off Green.

 
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Do you think that the Warriors will actually be a better team with any of these guys vs. keeping Barnes?  I understand what you are saying about it from a value perspective, but they obviously have a great thing going and maybe the league will adapt more, but I think there is definitely an argument for simply keeping what is working for as long as possible if it is this great.  Which probably means being forced in to overpaying for Barnes based on what he is likely going to be offered by other teams.

How do you see them using the money savings from signing someone at a lesser amount than Barnes?  

 
Long Ball Larry said:
Do you think that the Warriors will actually be a better team with any of these guys vs. keeping Barnes?  I understand what you are saying about it from a value perspective, but they obviously have a great thing going and maybe the league will adapt more, but I think there is definitely an argument for simply keeping what is working for as long as possible if it is this great.  Which probably means being forced in to overpaying for Barnes based on what he is likely going to be offered by other teams.

How do you see them using the money savings from signing someone at a lesser amount than Barnes?  
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I don't think they would be better in 2016, but I also don't think they would be significantly worse. After Curry is signed in 17-18 they are going to go from an ideal cap situation with the most underpaid star since mid-90s Jordan to a capped out team with no center. If they signed Dudley to a 3 year deal, I think they would get 90% of the production they were expecting from Barnes with an extra 10-15 million dollars in cap room in 2017 to find a center to replace Bogut. This is all assuming they don't resign Ezeli this offseason to an equally terrible deal.

 
Kev4029 said:
I don't think they would be better in 2016, but I also don't think they would be significantly worse. After Curry is signed in 17-18 they are going to go from an ideal cap situation with the most underpaid star since mid-90s Jordan to a capped out team with no center. If they signed Dudley to a 3 year deal, I think they would get 90% of the production they were expecting from Barnes with an extra 10-15 million dollars in cap room in 2017 to find a center to replace Bogut. This is all assuming they don't resign Ezeli this offseason to an equally terrible deal.
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Agree with this thinking...the thing is when you become a winning franchise like Golden State (i.e. rings with their window still wide open) you can get quality veterans at team-friendly contracts...Barnes is a good but not great player (and fits their system well) but my guess is they can get someone at a lot less money who can get into the ballpark of what he does...one of the keys to sustained success is knowing when to to let good players walk...it hurts but you just gotta do it sometimes...I have seen the Pats do it for years and that is a big reason they have maintained their high-level of play...I saw the Bruins do the opposite...they won a Cup and overpaid a ton of guys from that team and paid the price for it a few years later...they are now a mess... 

 
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In the offseason next year they are only going to have Thompson, Green, and Looney on the books, plus their 1st round this year and whatever they do this offseason. They'll also have the cap holds for Bogut (who they should/could renounce at a 17 million cap hold), Iggy (He'll be 33.5, not worth his 17 million cap hold), Curry (his cap hold will be 18 million, compared to his potential salary of something like 32 million), and Livingston (with a 9 million dollar cap hold).

If GS holds off on wasting money this offseason on their own free agents, signs some vets on cheap deals to fill out their bench, renounces everybody other than Curry at the start of the offseason, and replaces Barnes with somebody like Dudley at $8m/year, they'll have nearly $50 million in cap room next offseason. Next season has a much stronger FA class, especially if some of this years free agents sign 1 year deals as expected (Durant/Lebron, possibly Drummond/Horford).

 
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A year from now they could be throwing their money at Durant rather than Harrison Barnes this year. And maybe something like Gobert or Adams rather than Ezeli.

ETA:

The cap is expected to approach 110 million a year from now. You could see the Warriors end up with:

PG: Curry

SG: Thompson, Iggy (very team friendly deal)

SF: Durant

PF: Green, Looney

C: Ibaka, Bogut (very team friendly deal)

Or they could keep the same team for a couple years and hope that Barnes and Ezeli improve as their role players either price themselves out of a job with GS (Livingston) or start to fade as they get older (Iggy, Bogut).

 
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I think the Warriors are more important to Barnes than Barnes is to the Warriors.  The game is so much easier when you are constantly the 4th or 5th option offensively and defensively on the floor.

If the Warriors let him walk, I think some team is going to way overpay him.  

 
Kev4029 said:
A year from now they could be throwing their money at Durant rather than Harrison Barnes this year. And maybe something like Gobert or Adams rather than Ezeli.

ETA:

The cap is expected to approach 110 million a year from now. You could see the Warriors end up with:

PG: Curry

SG: Thompson, Iggy (very team friendly deal)

SF: Durant

PF: Green, Looney

C: Ibaka, Bogut (very team friendly deal)

Or they could keep the same team for a couple years and hope that Barnes and Ezeli improve as their role players either price themselves out of a job with GS (Livingston) or start to fade as they get older (Iggy, Bogut).
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If the Warriors had Adams grabbing OREB for them, Curry might make 1000 3s.  Run down, shoot a 3, OREB, shoot a 3, OREB, shoot a 3, rinse repeat.  

 
tommyboy said:
I don't see the warriors making any major deals. They could win 4-5 titles with this team
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I don't know about this.  I still think people are underestimating how good/difficult of a matchup the Thunder were for the Warriors.  That size and rebounding advantage made everything so difficult for them.  If the Thunder would have had 1-2 (even 1) better role player who could score open 3s better than Roberson with a similar style of defense, I think the Thunder advance instead.  If they keep Adams, Ibaka, KD, Westbrook and sign a couple of solid role players, it will be a battle again.

The Spurs are always scary in the postseason, but I think Father Time is catching up to them.  

Nobody in the East right now is even worth talking about.

 
tommyboy said:
I thought was interesting that Love got big crowd support when he was in the game. He also played well I thought 
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It will be interesting to see if they actively shop him after they get eliminated. Or even Kyrie (which would be plain stupid considering how young he is and to me the future of he team beyond Lebron). But who wants that contact and that defense?

I have to think they stick with this core one more season. The window for Lebron and this team is closing fast. 

6 straight finals for Lebron.....that is what....equivalent to 7.5 seasons instead of 6 (I did not bother to look up the additional games played above and beyond his last 6 regular seasons)? That is some serious wear and tear.

 
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The book on love for two seasons has been that he is most successful getting the ball in the same places Lebron needs the ball.  And he's had at defense. Nothing has changed in that regard so I imagine a lot of teams think he is "fixable". Simmons or someone had an interesting Idea of shipping him to New York for Melo.  Gives Lebron a dynamic scorer who can move without the ball and puts love on a team with a center that can move around to and cover his defensive errors. The cavs have too many big men and need outside players. There will definitely be a market. 

 
Abraham said:
The book on love for two seasons has been that he is most successful getting the ball in the same places Lebron needs the ball.  And he's had at defense. Nothing has changed in that regard so I imagine a lot of teams think he is "fixable". Simmons or someone had an interesting Idea of shipping him to New York for Melo.  Gives Lebron a dynamic scorer who can move without the ball and puts love on a team with a center that can move around to and cover his defensive errors. The cavs have too many big men and need outside players. There will definitely be a market. 
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NY is a really interesting place indeed. Melo and Lebron along with Kyrie.....mmmmmmm. Hebron being even more of a facilitator (not that he is not already) could allow Melo to have maybe the career year of career years. That could work really well for both of them.

 
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