What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (4 Viewers)

Status
Not open for further replies.
Vanilla Guerrilla said:
I think someone who isn't screwing up the team would be a great first step.  It's a huge market for endorsements, I think you just need an above average front office and coach to attract players.
Click to expand...
Well I can agree with that. I live in Philly as a Bulls fan but root for every other Philly team. I'm the type who didn't like the Sixers tanking and believed great teams can draft well no matter where they are positioned. I don't think it's as impactful as what type of FA signings you have and who you bring in through trade or let go via trade or walk when contract expires. the University of UCONN did a great study on how impactful tanking is in the nBA and competitive balance. Their conclusion was Tanking doesn't impact the team as much as people think and it comes down to luck as well as teams making the right moves. Conclusion great teams ran well stayed great while the bad teams who were run poorly stay bad. Bad teams that were run well but were bad do to injuries or other issues would become good again with the right moves. So for me the teams tanking who are poorly run I just laugh anymore at. 

 
Dez said:
Did you watch last night ?  Tell me again how Cleveland wins the East without LeBron.  Like I said 0-6 without him this year and 4-18 without him since he came back.  It isn't a fluke.  They are a terrible team without their leader and it showed last night.
Click to expand...
Cleveland isn't a well put together team if LeBron was out for a long time. Maybe they make the playoffs depending when he got hurt if he was out for a whole regular season comeback for post season but I've always thought Love was extremely overrated. People think he's great because he's a big man who can shoot and a big name. He's poor down low and for yrs people have complained he's not physical enough and too soft doesn't use his size like he should. I love Kyrie but he's not enough to keep that team going without LeBron. There's no question lebron makes that team way better. They are still poorly run and it's only because the NBA gave them Kyrie and LeBron Came back and they got Love they are even a great team. 

 
DJackson10 said:
I was going back before that but even now I still don't think he has it. He's got other guys around him now. He IMHO never seemed like the guy who would say when the teams down I'll put the team on my back and take us through a tough stretch. With him it was always someone else fault why things didn't go his or the team way. Look I've never denied the guys talent. I just can't put him ahead of Wilt or MJ for reasons I believed made them way different and better then everyone else. I honestly question Lebron's motivation and if he never had the opportunity to leave Cleveland like he was able to would he have just thrown in the towel and stop trying? I never got that with Kobe with the bad Lakers he had his last few yrs in the league. Always seemed t want to go out and compete still. LeBron comes off as the type of player if he's on a losing team enough he'd pack it in. 
Click to expand...
Who let Bayless in?

 
DJackson10 said:
Cleveland isn't a well put together team if LeBron was out for a long time. 
Click to expand...
This is a strange statement to make about a basketball team. They tend to be built around their best player(s) - at least if they're managed well - so it would logically follow that the team wouldn't function so well when that player isn't available.

 
Gr00vus said:
This will end well.
Click to expand...
You honestly expect this to ever end? it's been going on since LeBron got in the league. I also think it's dumb for people say LeBron got these stats at age X when MJ got them at AGE Z. No **** sherlock MJ went to North Carolina for 4 yrs and lost a year to retirement and another to injury. I think that's just moving the goal post around argument for people to try and argue LeBron being better. Common sense comes in and you realize LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. MJ spent 4 in college lost a year to retirement and most of another do to injury. You're looking at least 6 yrs he lost of NBA action there. Hey good for LeBron if he passes him but he's had a leg up on MJ and given a 4 yr head start plus 2 other seasons lost. 

 
DJackson10 said:
You honestly expect this to ever end? it's been going on since LeBron got in the league. I also think it's dumb for people say LeBron got these stats at age X when MJ got them at AGE Z. No **** sherlock MJ went to North Carolina for 4 yrs and lost a year to retirement and another to injury. I think that's just moving the goal post around argument for people to try and argue LeBron being better. Common sense comes in and you realize LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. MJ spent 4 in college lost a year to retirement and most of another do to injury. You're looking at least 6 yrs he lost of NBA action there. Hey good for LeBron if he passes him but he's had a leg up on MJ and given a 4 yr head start plus 2 other seasons lost. 
Click to expand...
Well, firstly, I'm one of the weirdos who think spending a lot of time trying to "prove" who the best player of all time is/was, or who the definitive top five is/was, or anything similar to that is a really big waste of time. And secondly, my comment was mainly about your take on Kobe's attitude when stuck with a losing team (which I thought I had narrowed the context to by snipping your original quote). You're going to get some opinions that differ from your own about Kobe's aplomb in that situation from the "cool kids" in this thread. And me - look up his quotes about Andrew Bynum circa 2006/2007 for a starting place.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DJackson10 said:
You honestly expect this to ever end? it's been going on since LeBron got in the league. I also think it's dumb for people say LeBron got these stats at age X when MJ got them at AGE Z. No **** sherlock MJ went to North Carolina for 4 yrs and lost a year to retirement and another to injury. I think that's just moving the goal post around argument for people to try and argue LeBron being better. Common sense comes in and you realize LeBron has been in the NBA since he was 18. MJ spent 4 in college lost a year to retirement and most of another do to injury. You're looking at least 6 yrs he lost of NBA action there. Hey good for LeBron if he passes him but he's had a leg up on MJ and given a 4 yr head start plus 2 other seasons lost. 
Click to expand...
FYI MJ was only at UNC for three years.

 
Gr00vus said:
Well, firstly, I'm one of the weirdos who think spending a lot of time trying to "prove" who the best player of all time is/was, or who the definitive top five is/was, or anything similar to that is a really big waste of time. And secondly, my comment was mainly about your take on Kobe's attitude when stuck with a losing team (which I thought I had narrowed the context to by snipping your original quote). You're going to get some opinions that differ from your own about Kobe's aplomb in that situation from the "cool kids" in this thread. And me - look up his quotes about Andrew Bynum circa 2006/2007 for a starting place.
Click to expand...
I kind of agree with you there on players. Especially from two totally different eras rules wise. I know I'm gonna get different views and yeah I've dealt with the "cool kids" before. I have posted on two separate Baseball boards with people like that. however I'm kind of newer here so not trying to attempt to get involved with anyone I really don't know yet. It's just nice to finally talk actual basketball again with some people online because the board I go to is mostly Sixers talk and no one seems to care about the rest of the league. 

 
DJackson10 said:
 the board I go to is mostly Sixers talk and no one seems to care about the rest of the league. 
Click to expand...
Somehow there's a decent amount of 76ers representation in this thread too. Probably second only to the Wolves.

Also, I said "cool kids" in jest. Pretty much everyone who posts here is good people and contributes solid insight, even if we don't all agree on stuff all the time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DJackson10 said:
Whoops that's my goof. So really he missed 5 yrs. Point is on that LBJ had a head start when covering those age stats and such. I just think it's an incredible dumb way to try and prove your argument on that part. 
Click to expand...
I mean yeah, sure, but its better than arbitrary feelings about clutchiness, so ...

Nobody here is really into the LeBron/MJ comparison in my experience. They played in different eras and have two very different styles. They're the two best players of most of our lifetimes by a country mile. I'd bet you'd get near universal agreement on that (except from the really old dudes who maybe remember Wilt and Russell and Oscar Robertson and @Eephus might put in a good word for George Mikan). Dissecting it beyond that kinda seems like a waste of time to me :shrug:  

 
Gr00vus said:
Somehow there's a decent amount of 76ers representation in this thread too. Probably second only to the Wolves.

Also, I said "cool kids" in jest. Pretty much everyone who posts here is good people and contributes solid insight, even if we don't all agree on stuff all the time.
Click to expand...
I hope that's true. I could go on all evening about the issues I've had with posters on other boards. One poster belittled me after the Bynum trade happened after I said the Sixers would regret it. I didn't say anything like I hope the Sixers stink or any type of trollish behavior. Just went after stupid things about me. A lot of posters stayed out of it besides one guy who basically said he was being a total d bag and there was no reason for his behavior and only did it because I didn't agree with his opinion and in fact this poster who defended me even agreed on an extent with me. I never even rubbed that in I was right about that trade. Another poster on that same board is just a whole circle jerk and will start a debate even on semantics. Dude literally would troll looking for posts to go after someone just to argue. Over the years i created some friends and many of those friends left the board and emailed me one of the reasons they left was said poster. Overall it's nice to know most here aren't like those guys. i've had some terrible experiences on forums where people just belittle anyone who doesn't agree with them. I haven't gotten into the political discussions if there are in there as i do like politics but how are those?  

 
TobiasFunke said:
I mean yeah, sure, but its better than arbitrary feelings about clutchiness, so ...

Nobody here is really into the LeBron/MJ comparison in my experience. They played in different eras and have two very different styles. They're the two best players of most of our lifetimes by a country mile. I'd bet you'd get near universal agreement on that (except from the really old dudes who maybe remember Wilt and Russell and Oscar Robertson and @Eephus might put in a good word for George Mikan). Dissecting it beyond that kinda seems like a waste of time to me :shrug:  
Click to expand...
Honestly I'm a huge MJ fan but I'd put Wilt over both LeBron and MJ. Having grown up in Philly you get to see as a youngster growing up in sports a lot of stuff on Wilt especially considering he was a Philly native. 

 
DJackson10 said:
So that's a no or no comment? I've been using my better judgement and staying out of them. 
Click to expand...
The political threads here can get abusive and non-substantive. Shamefully, I have meted out a bit of abuse myself in them from time to time.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DJackson10 said:
Who would Philly trade for the #1 pick and I'm gonna laugh if you say Okafor because that dude has zero trade value in todays NBA. 
Click to expand...
rumor from Simmons podcast for a bit has been #3, Lakers pick next year, and Saric. I think that is a bit much, i would much rather part with the Sixers pick next year. seems a lot to go from 3 to 1 

 
modogg said:
rumor from Simmons podcast for a bit has been #3, Lakers pick next year, and Saric. I think that is a bit much, i would much rather part with the Sixers pick next year. seems a lot to go from 3 to 1 
Click to expand...
If you're certain the guy you get at 1 this year is a once in a generational talent, it's worth it. Problem is, if the Celtics think the same, getting that #1 pick probably isn't going to happen.

 
modogg said:
rumor from Simmons podcast for a bit has been #3, Lakers pick next year, and Saric. I think that is a bit much, i would much rather part with the Sixers pick next year. seems a lot to go from 3 to 1 
Click to expand...
That's not a bad trade. And as you know I'm not a huge believer in Saric. I know he's popular but his big numbers being the only legit scoring option kind of scare me. Too similar to MCW production when there was no other option. Not saying he's a terrible player just i don't expect him to keep consistently putting up those #s and scouting reports have always said consistency is an issue of his. Sixers need a legit PG. You can't do anything in todays NBA without a legit PG and if I'm the Sixers and have to give up 2 picks and Saric to get a PG I'd jump at it. 

 
Gr00vus said:
If you're certain the guy you get at 1 this year is a once in a generational talent, it's worth it. Problem is, if the Celtics think the same, getting that #1 pick probably isn't going to happen.
Click to expand...
Yup. Really comes down to how the organizations value the prospects. i have heard some dissenting stuff with Fultz, making it more like a top 3 then Fultz alone at the top. Some even throw Taytum in that talk too. One good thing with Boston is that they are ok going on their own, they did with Brown last year. I would objectively say, with the current Celtics team, that Taytum or Jackson are a better immediate fit. Probably depends on what Celtics want to do with IT, etc. 

I also have to think Boston would feel they won't be in such a position again in a long time with #1 overall. 

 
DJackson10 said:
That's not a bad trade. And as you know I'm not a huge believer in Saric. I know he's popular but his big numbers being the only legit scoring option kind of scare me. Too similar to MCW production when there was no other option. Not saying he's a terrible player just i don't expect him to keep consistently putting up those #s and scouting reports have always said consistency is an issue of his. Sixers need a legit PG. You can't do anything in todays NBA without a legit PG and if I'm the Sixers and have to give up 2 picks and Saric to get a PG I'd jump at it. 
Click to expand...
as for the Sixers in this scenario, it would have been real nice to Simmons play a bit of the point to see if he can be groomed there or not. They have Baylis coming back from his wrist injury, so they have some ok options (TJ is about average, probably little below). Agree Saric isn't going to be a 25 points/game kind of guy, but very well could be best 6th man in a year or 2, and he is multi-dimensional with under-rated passing/vision. 

i have to think with Celtics, salary cap and the next few years come into this equation. They seem to have to make a few tough decisions coming soon, getting a rookie contract with Saric and Taytum would be easy to work with the rest of their roster. 

 
So quality question here I saw posted on another forum I frequent. Which HoF'ers has LeBron beaten in the Eastern Conference playoffs since his Celtics rivalry? Paul George, and then what...Hall of Very Good Josh Smith and Joe Johnson?

 
ShamrockPride said:
So quality question here I saw posted on another forum I frequent. Which HoF'ers has LeBron beaten in the Eastern Conference playoffs since his Celtics rivalry? Paul George, and then what...Hall of Very Good Josh Smith and Joe Johnson?
Click to expand...
So we are just going to ignore finals?

 
modogg said:
as for the Sixers in this scenario, it would have been real nice to Simmons play a bit of the point to see if he can be groomed there or not. They have Baylis coming back from his wrist injury, so they have some ok options (TJ is about average, probably little below). Agree Saric isn't going to be a 25 points/game kind of guy, but very well could be best 6th man in a year or 2, and he is multi-dimensional with under-rated passing/vision. 

i have to think with Celtics, salary cap and the next few years come into this equation. They seem to have to make a few tough decisions coming soon, getting a rookie contract with Saric and Taytum would be easy to work with the rest of their roster. 
Click to expand...
Good point. Simmons at Point Forward isn't a problem for me it's Simmons playing the actual PG position guarding PGs as he doesn't seem to have really great defense and many people just overrate it based on stills/Blks which were gotten do to sheer volume. Teams weren't afraid to go after him on offense. Bayless fits well for now being a good shooter and good D at PG though. I've said more or less Saric ceiling for me is a 6th man and a really good one at that. I just don't like all this putting guys in the HoF type hype I've seen from people in the City especially Ben who hasn't played a game yet. However I do expect a team like the Sixers to be competing if not getting a playoff spot next year. 

 
ShamrockPride said:
So quality question here I saw posted on another forum I frequent. Which HoF'ers has LeBron beaten in the Eastern Conference playoffs since his Celtics rivalry? Paul George, and then what...Hall of Very Good Josh Smith and Joe Johnson?
Click to expand...
Did he ever run into Wade or Bosh in his 1st run with the Cavs? Did he every run into Detroit with Billups?

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Gr00vus said:
Did he ever run into Wade or Bosh in his 1st run with the Cavs? I know he beat Wade in these playoffs, but it's not prime Wade. Did he every run into Detroit with Billups?
Click to expand...
if Lebron is lucky enough to be in the playoffs he will go against future HOF'ers Embiid, Simmons, and maybe 1 or 2 others. that will be a good resume builder

 
modogg said:
if Lebron is lucky enough to be in the playoffs he will go against future HOF'ers Embiid, Simmons, and maybe 1 or 2 others. that will be a good resume builder
Click to expand...
Oh, were we talking about the reconstructive surgery hall of fame? My bad.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
LeBron reminds me so much of Phil Hellmuth, whose entry upon the poker scene i watched first hand. Such gifts, each of them, such love for their game, but soooo insecure it never gives them a moment's happiness. Why people with that much talent have to tell you how talented they are to reassure themselves they actually have it and how they can be put off what they do so beautifully by the pettiest things. Like Salieri with Mozart, i wonder why God gifted such #####es so.

 
Gr00vus said:
Did he ever run into Wade or Bosh in his 1st run with the Cavs? I know he beat Wade in these playoffs, but it's not prime Wade. Did he every run into Detroit with Billups?
Click to expand...
Knocked out in 2006 by Pistons. Came back to beat them in the ECFs in 2007. On the tail end of Detroit's run, but I'll be generous and give it to him. Beat Chauncey, Rip, and I think Wallace was still on that team.

 
Of course, a lot of what the Celts do this offseason has to do with how far the ownership is willing to go into luxury tax. I've had a sense since the trade deadline that Ainge is so reliant on the Jersey picks because Wyc & the boys might not want to go over to wrap up whoever they decide to keep in '18. If that's the way ownership feels and Stevens isn't married to getting his Butler boy Gordo in FA, Saric would give Boston a guy who can actually make a shot low AND give more cap flexibility.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Huh? Chicago played the Celtics. 
Click to expand...
Yeah, you're right. I've been so disinterested in these 1st 3 rounds all the series have kind of blended together. I really enjoyed the heck out of that Wolves/Bucks 1st round series though - some unforgettable stuff in that one.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
If we are talking insecure, MJ is about as insecure as they come.

He spent his entire HOF speech reminding everyone how badly he beat them all.

 
ShamrockPride said:
Yes. Since I think this was posed mainly as a question to belittle the Eastern conference.
Click to expand...
Billups, Garnett, Pierce, Pau Gasol, Carmelo, Tyson Chandler, Paul George, Ray Allen, Rondo, Deron Williams, Iso Joe, Terry, Butler, and Millsap to name a few. Sure I missed a bunch.

 
Jayrod said:
If we are talking insecure, MJ is about as insecure as they come.

He spent his entire HOF speech reminding everyone how badly he beat them all.
Click to expand...
That's my favorite thing about that speech. Classic. I don't think he meant it as much as a jab (which he did to a degree), but mostly I honestly think he is so into himself that he was just catching the feels over his own greatness. 

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

Yo Mama
**** OFFICIAL FFA 2025-2026 Fake NBA Draft **** - Draft Has Started
18 19 20
Replies
963
Views
10K
Juxtatarot
Juxtatarot
Yo Mama
NBA 2024 In-Season Tournament Challenge - Yo Mama Said Knock You Out Again!
2
Replies
79
Views
3K
Yo Mama
Yo Mama
kutta
***Official 2025 Footballguy T-Shirt Exchange - OCT 12 SHIPPING DEADLINE (extended 2 weeks)***
3 4 5
Replies
218
Views
5K
joker
joker

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 3 (members: 0, guests: 3)
Back
Top