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2016-17 NBA Thread: Finals are over, please go away (3 Viewers)

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butcher boy said:
The refs tried to give game 3 to the Cavs and the Warriors ended up beating both the Cavs and the refs.  That's gotta make the refs back off a bit because the Warriors proved that it would take such an enormous amount of ref bias to beat them, that it wont be worth the risk of getting their intentions caught.  The refs will let the Warriors take it and just go back to steering games their way in future years.
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I basically said this Wed night and had people disagreeing the refs were giving it to them. It was blatant already and if they go even more blatant then it doesn't look good for the NBA at all. They are just better off backing off it now and letting the Cavs get swept. This is already a terrible playoffs for the NBA no need to make it worse at least in the leagues opinion then bringing back a topic they've clearly sweated under the rug and won't go near again at all. 

 
Max Power said:
Bulter and Lopez for the first and Rozier..  I wont lose sleep over that.
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I'd really want more then that for Butler. I mean he's a great two way player in the league and a top 5 at his position in those standards. I'd want Smart and the 1st plus another player and pick. I'm giving up my Best player. If they Lopez then by all means sure but I don't know how Lopez fits in unless Horford plays PF and he's more a C

 
Bobcat10 said:
I bet you would have said the same thing if someone speculated on the Cousins to NO deal, right?  Save the, well we're talking about Sacramento hot take.  You also downplay a 3rd or 4th team being involved.  You're really not a good GM, I hope you know that.  And I'm not saying I am.
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Lol, the funny part is you comparing the Cousins deal to a George deal. The market for centers is horrible, the market for all NBA caliber wings that can do it all isn't. Plus Indiana doesn't want Love and isn't going to help a division rival without them overpaying out the nose. If George went to Cleveland it would have to be for Love +++  

 
wikkidpissah said:
Bulls lost dibs on anything but the pick for Butler when they wouldnt deal at the trade deadline
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Rumor was Ainge backed out of a deal. Butler was all but gone. Reports said Ainge wouldn't give up the pick or Crowder in the deal so Bulls said thanks but no thanks. Other reports like David Aldridge said picks would work itself out but AInge wouldn't give up Crowder

Butler deal hinges on Crowder per Aldriige

Nick Friedel said the pick was never in play while other reports said it was for George. That's good on the Bulls part not taking a trade without the pick if the Cs made it available for George and they knew about it. 

WoJ said picks maybe in play but protected. 

No Butler trade

If I was the Bulls yeah I'd want rotation players and picks at that time to. Now if I'm the Bulls I want that pick if not more. Maybe Bos still loses to the Cavs in the ECF but maybe they aren't embarrassed having a great two way player who LeBron himself has said Jimmy Butler is the hardest guy for me the play against in the League. Heck if Rondo hadn't gotten hurt Boston may have lost in the first round and Butler was really good in the first 2 games. Rondo was like having our own spygate for the exception it was done legally and Rondo knew the Celtics plays having run them for yrs. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
No, it is a fair comparison. 
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How so? Totally different playing styles, completely different eras, one had to jump ship to win titles and todays rules some have said MJ would score 70 in this era. Plus The Stats ages and all like I said aren't a fair comparison as MJ was gone from the league for a 1 1/2yrs and went to college for 3. LeBron had a leg up already being drafted out of HS and IMHO played softer competition in the East. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Sure, but the point is he wasn't "jumping from stacked teams to stacked team." If they were stacked they would have won more than 47 and 33 games. He was building a stacked team around him, in each case by recruiting a top 20-ish PF along with a couple old vet friends to join him and forcing his new team to drop other assets as a result. 

Bottom line none of the seven teams makes the Finals without him, and I'm not sure any of them even makes the ECF despite the down years, so it's a stretch to refer to any of them as stacked.
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They were stacked teams, just because those guys weren't on the team the year before is irrelevant.

Miami has Bosh, Wade and LeBron. 3 of the top 20ish players in the league at the time. Cleveland had Kyrie, LeBron, and then traded the top overall pick for Love. 

You mean the Miami team that almost made the conference finals last year without Lebron?

 
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msudaisy26 said:
They were stacked teams, just because those guys weren't on the team the year before is irrelevant.

Miami has Noah, Wade and LeBron. 3 of the top 20ish players in the league at the time. Cleveland had Kyrie, LeBron, and then traded the top overall pick for Love. 
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Think you mean Bosh. Noah with James one of them would've killed the other. Those two don't like each other at all. 

 
DJackson10 said:
How so? Totally different playing styles, completely different eras, one had to jump ship to win titles and todays rules some have said MJ would score 70 in this era. Plus The Stats ages and all like I said aren't a fair comparison as MJ was gone from the league for a 1 1/2yrs and went to college for 3. LeBron had a leg up already being drafted out of HS and IMHO played softer competition in the East. 
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Because you are comparing 2 of the all time best players and they are in the same ball park regardless of who you like. It can and should be discussed. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
Not til the KD/LBJ comps stop, too. Switch those two out in this series and they already woulda called the softball rule.
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That's true. Forget which show it was or who said it. Maybe FS1 and it wasn't Skip but they said if LeBron loses tonight all MJ/Lebron comparisons should stop. I think Micheal Rappoport said there should be an hour delay in between mention MJ and LBJ which I found a bit funny but also a bit over the top. 

 
DJackson10 said:
Rumor was Ainge backed out of a deal. Butler was all but gone. Reports said Ainge wouldn't give up the pick or Crowder in the deal so Bulls said thanks but no thanks. Other reports like David Aldridge said picks would work itself out but AInge wouldn't give up Crowder

Butler deal hinges on Crowder per Aldriige

Nick Friedel said the pick was never in play while other reports said it was for George. That's good on the Bulls part not taking a trade without the pick if the Cs made it available for George and they knew about it. 

WoJ said picks maybe in play but protected. 

No Butler trade

If I was the Bulls yeah I'd want rotation players and picks at that time to. Now if I'm the Bulls I want that pick if not more. Maybe Bos still loses to the Cavs in the ECF but maybe they aren't embarrassed having a great two way player who LeBron himself has said Jimmy Butler is the hardest guy for me the play against in the League. Heck if Rondo hadn't gotten hurt Boston may have lost in the first round and Butler was really good in the first 2 games. Rondo was like having our own spygate for the exception it was done legally and Rondo knew the Celtics plays having run them for yrs. 
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As i said here after the trade deadline passed, my feeling on Ainge and the picks is that they were never seriously offered cuz ownership thinks they can build sumn with em without having to pay luxury tax

 
msudaisy26 said:
Yeah my phone hates me sometimes. Thanks. 
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We've all been there. I've written some crazy things my phone loved to change. I put something really bad posted on another forum once do to a phone auto correct. Luckily I saw it right away and just deleted the whole post and made a new one. 

 
wikkidpissah said:
As i said here after the trade deadline passed, my feeling on Ainge and the picks is that they were never seriously offered cuz ownership thinks they can build sumn with em without having to pay luxury tax
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Could be never know with that guy. I wasn't here when the deadline happened either. My thinking always was Ainge is trying to pull a fast one in a similar type deal he acquired original big 3. The problem with that is Minny if I'm not mistaken had no choice and KG wanted to leave and Mil Couldn't keep Allen or something? I don't remember the whole details there but I remember KG wanting out or not wanting to resign with Minny. 

 
DJackson10 said:
That's true. Forget which show it was or who said it. Maybe FS1 and it wasn't Skip but they said if LeBron loses tonight all MJ/Lebron comparisons should stop. I think Micheal Rappoport said there should be an hour delay in between mention MJ and LBJ which I found a bit funny but also a bit over the top. 
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Even tho i still have LBJ behind Magic, Mike & Russell (due mostly to his lack of game savvy) in all-time chooseup, it's pretty damn close thru those 4.

 
DJackson10 said:
Could be never know with that guy. I wasn't here when the deadline happened either. My thinking always was Ainge is trying to pull a fast one in a similar type deal he acquired original big 3. The problem with that is Minny if I'm not mistaken had no choice and KG wanted to leave and Mil Couldn't keep Allen or something? I don't remember the whole details there but I remember KG wanting out or not wanting to resign with Minny. 
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Danny calls a local radio show every Thurs morning inseason and talks more frankly than pretty much any major sports exec. That's where i get the sense that Wyc Grossbeck thinks he can cheap the process.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Even tho i still have LBJ behind Magic, Mike & Russell (due mostly to his lack of game savvy) in all-time chooseup, it's pretty damn close thru those 4.
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No Wilt? Boy you're lucky my Neighbor doesn't know this board. He give you the riot act how Wilt is the #1 overall and no if and or buts about it. Then again he watched the guy play I think LeBron is outside of the top but close Wilt, Jordan, Russel, Magic. Wilt literally had rules changed because of him and like I stated the other day Jordan was really good and helped globalize the game. 

 
I was at the Gaaaahden every home Sunday for the Russ/Wilt era. Amazed yes, impressed no. Russ always beat him to his spot when it mattered. Stoppin will always be bigger than scorin in my world o ball.

 
tjnc09 said:
This is a good article before the finals about TT.  He was one of those x factor types I thought would help Cleveland compete more: http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/19491943/zach-lowe-cleveland-cavaliers-tristan-thompson-becoming-elite-role-player-nba)

But GS has certainly made it a point of emphasis to lock him down.  He was such an integral part of their success against GS.  Zaza doesn't do anything fancy, but he's done a great job locating TT and boxing him out.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2017/06/how_golden_state_warriors_have.html

https://bballbreakdown.com/2017/06/07/cavaliers-warriors-tristan-thompson/
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During last season's Finals, one tactical error Kerr kept making that the thread identified was sending TThompson's man up to screen on high PnRs.  TThompson defends high PnRs really well, and GSW doesn't need to call 40 high PnRs to get the shots they want.  It was an unforced error Kerr kept making.

This Finals, whether by design or luck, GSW hasn't let TThompson muck things up on high PnRs.  They have done an excellent job keeping him away from the ball, so well it's affected how much CLE has played TThompson.  If he's not blowing up high screens or pulling down rebounds, what's the point of playing him at all?

 
wikkidpissah said:
I was at the Gaaaahden every home Sunday for the Russ/Wilt era. Amazed yes, impressed no. Russ always beat him to his spot when it mattered. Stoppin will always be bigger than scorin in my world o ball.
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Fair enough and I almost looked that word up then I remembered that's how Boston people say Garden.  :wall:

 
Ok so we talked about this the other day. Chris Broussard said on Undisputed today LeBron has faced more HoFers in his career. MJ 9 (Counted Stockton/Malone Twice) compared to Lebron's 26 guys. yes you read that 26. Somehow I think that number is really sugar coated and he included guys not in the HoF yet or assumed guys who aren't really dead on HoFers either and included guys twice. I'm having a hard time figuring all these HoFers out. Plus I just think it makes LeBron look bad this defense by a blatant lebron apologist in Brossard. MJ beat all those HoFers where LeBron might go 3-8 in Finals appearances. 

 
God TT is so bad. He got in Kyrie's way on a alley-op and Kyrie has to pull it down and misses, then TT with the Reb and misses. TT is just clogging up space this finals. 

 
Frostillicus said:
Shocker.
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How so. I just can't imagine it's that many guys unless his perimeters is including guys like Duncan, Dirk, and others who are first ballot HoFers not in yet and he also never played Kobe and I don't believe he played against Shaq as well as naming guys twice. 

 
1.  Curry

2.  Durant

3.  Curry

4.  Curry

5.  Duncan

6.  Ginobilli

7.  Kawhi

8.  Duncan

9.  Ginobilii

10.  Kawhi

11.  Durant

12.  Westbrook

13.  Dirk

14.  Kidd

15.  Duncan

16.  Ginobilli

Maybes:  Klay, (x3)  Draymond (x3), Tony Parker (x2), Peja, 

 
Frostillicus said:
1.  Curry

2.  Durant

3.  Curry

4.  Curry

5.  Duncan

6.  Ginobilli

7.  Kawhi

8.  Duncan

9.  Ginobilii

10.  Kawhi

11.  Durant

12.  Westbrook

13.  Dirk

14.  Kidd

15.  Duncan

16.  Ginobilli

Maybes:  Klay, (x3)  Draymond (x3), Tony Parker (x2), Peja, 
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Like I said he named guys twice and put a lot of guys who aren't even in the HoF yet. The only good thing he did was he did say he included Malone/Stockton twice so he did the same with LeBron. It's also not MJ's fault he played less HoFers. Guys weren't teaming up to make SuperTeams then and MJ beat all the HoFers he played against in the finals where LeBron still has a losing record. 

 
Frostillicus said:
1.  Curry

2.  Durant

3.  Curry

4.  Curry

5.  Duncan

6.  Ginobilli

7.  Kawhi

8.  Duncan

9.  Ginobilii

10.  Kawhi

11.  Durant

12.  Westbrook

13.  Dirk

14.  Kidd

15.  Duncan

16.  Ginobilli

Maybes:  Klay, (x3)  Draymond (x3), Tony Parker (x2), Peja, 
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Excellent list.  Not a sure thing, but I'd be comfortable adding Harden to the Maybes.

 
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