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2016 Oakland Raiders thread (1 Viewer)

massraider said:
I am reading some stuff lately that mentions Mack as possibly the best defensive player in the league. 

To my mind,  you're talking Keuchly, Watt and Donald. 

But yeah maybe Mack was as good as any last year.  The one thing about Mack that I am starting to believe,  is that he might have the best speed to power ability in the league.  There are few that have his edge speed,  and of the ones that do,  none of them finish with power as often as Mack. I'm talking Miller, Houston, these guys.  Mack turns a speed edge rush into a devastating bull rush more than anyone.  Watt doesn't have that edge speed,  but is clearly stronger. 

I still think Watt is the next Howie Long,  and is the most disruptive force on defense. But there's an argument for Mack.
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Agree with a sentiment here that while Mack may have better aspects to the game, Watt is still the most dominant defensive player today. It's not just accounting for him on every play (usually with a double team), he can literally put the D on his shoulders and be the gamechanger. But Mack will be that guy shortly.

What I really love is using Howie Long as the standard. Yes, there's a Raider bias and Long is my favorite Raider (and player) of all time, but even as a lauded HOFer I still think Long is a little underrated in how dominant he was in his time. Other linemen like Reggie White and Richard Dent may have more accolades, but I feel guys like Bruce Smith, Randy White, Dan Hampton, and even Gastineau got more recognition -- then and potentially now.

As far as overall defensive dominance, I think Singletary and Lawrence Taylor still get the nod, but in terms of linemen, it is really hard to top Long in terms of sheer defensive force and impact.

:2cents:

 
Literally? That's a high standard.

I guess Mack only figuratively put the defense on his back when Oakland beat the Broncos in Denver last season.

 
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Amazing how a guy can get cut from one team then play his a$$ off and get $18 mil guaranteed the next year. Congrats David,  now keep it up!

 
I am surprised by the amount of Amerson's contract. It was reported as $38 mil over 4 seasons. Is he really worth $9+mil a season? I didn't see it from last season's play.

 
Well its fair to ask. He was cut last year. 

We need to see the details for sure, but it's important to note it was an extension, so they have an extra year to spread the money. We get him for the next 5 years for 39 mill.

I'm guessing he receives a signing bonus, and a guaranteed roster bonus next spring, and probably guaranteed salary next year.  That's my prediction.  If that's so, that can get to 17 mill pretty quick. 

The other option is to say Hey, prove it one more year. If so, and he plays the same as last year, he'd be a 25 year old free agent coming off two good years. That's 12 mill a year, next March.

17 mill in guaranteed money makes me think we can get out of it easily after two years. Just my guess.  

 
Toomuchnv said:
Is this sarcasm? He was one of the top 15 cb's last season when looking at advanced metrics for corners...
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No, not sarcasm. I am asking an honest question based on what I saw on the field last year, not statics. He played well, but at that price tag it struck me as a pretty big gamble. Hopefully it pays off.

 
32 Counter Pass said:
No, not sarcasm. I am asking an honest question based on what I saw on the field last year, not statics. He played well, but at that price tag it struck me as a pretty big gamble. Hopefully it pays off.
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From PFF:

The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season.

He was clearly our best CB last season and if he were to play this season at that same level and we hadnt resigned him, well he would probably be in a different uniform next year due to the outrageous free agent cb deals.  This is well worth the risk in my opinion.  If he continues to play well, we now have a really good cb tandem for years to come with Smith/Amerson.

 
Toomuchnv said:
From PFF:

The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season.

He was clearly our best CB last season and if he were to play this season at that same level and we hadnt resigned him, well he would probably be in a different uniform next year due to the outrageous free agent cb deals.  This is well worth the risk in my opinion.  If he continues to play well, we now have a really good cb tandem for years to come with Smith/Amerson.
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Good info. How reliable a predictor are those statistics to future performance? 

 
Toomuchnv said:
From PFF:

The former NC State standout posted a positive production grade in 2015, despite being targeted 104 times (sixth-most among NFL CBs). On those targets, he allowed just 58 completions and one touchdown. He tied for fifth overall with 13 passes defensed, and also picked off four passes. Last season, he allowed more completions (61) on fewer targets (91), and an NFL-high 10 touchdowns when targeted. Quarterbacks had a 140.2 rating when targeting Amerson in 2014; this season, that number has dropped to 62.7. His improvements have brought him up to an 83.4 overall grade, good for 15th out of all cornerbacks this season.

He was clearly our best CB last season and if he were to play this season at that same level and we hadnt resigned him, well he would probably be in a different uniform next year due to the outrageous free agent cb deals.  This is well worth the risk in my opinion.  If he continues to play well, we now have a really good cb tandem for years to come with Smith/Amerson.
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Amerson at 15th and Smith at 12th ranked QBs ill take that any day of the week

 
32 Counter Pass said:
Good info. How reliable a predictor are those statistics to future performance? 
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Thats difficult to know for sure....given that Amerson was a 2nd round pick it is clear the talent is there.  I believe scheme fit is a bigger reason why talented corners are successful or fail.  Nnamdi was great for us, pathetic for Philly.  Deangelo Hall played bad for us, but has been successful elsewhere.  Amerson was cut by Washington due to poor performance, but had a good season with the Raiders....I am curious to see how Josh Norman performs in Washington without the Carolina defensive talent....I wouldnt be at all surprised to see him fail.

Sometimes it just takes a player to come to the right situation to flourish...I am hopeful that is Amerson now.

 
I get what counter 32 is saying but with our front 7 and the other guys in the secondary he doesn't need to be Revis. Just need solid play. So glad we locked him up. Also it's interesting it was after OTA's. Probably wanted to make sure he stayed in shape and looked the same on the field as last year. Our team has a solid bass for some years to come. I'm pumped!

 
Faust said:
A sports economist says that the Raiders won't work in Las Vegas
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The economics (mostly market size) certainly concern me, but lines like this are confusing:

" If you're in Vegas betting on NFL games, you're not going to be able to do that if you're at the game, because there's no way the league is going to allow people to bet on NFL games at an NFL game."

Do they realize that there is this invention called the SmartPhone and on this device, in any stadium, people can go to web pages that allow them to gamble on NFL games?

 
Faust said:
A sports economist says that the Raiders won't work in Las Vegas
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More lazy journalism, the article states,  "the 49ers have got [Northern California] locked down", so it's better that the Raiders stay there?

Clark County has 2+million people and 2-300K tourists coming in each week. Sure it's not a top ten market, but the Raiders currently have the worst stadium and have the lowest attendance.  It's not like they are leaving a gold mine. An economist should consider all the factors, it's not just about Las Vegas, it's about the crummy deal they have now in Oakland and no new Oakland stadium on the horizon. 

 
joey said:
The economics (mostly market size) certainly concern me, but lines like this are confusing:

" If you're in Vegas betting on NFL games, you're not going to be able to do that if you're at the game, because there's no way the league is going to allow people to bet on NFL games at an NFL game."

Do they realize that there is this invention called the SmartPhone and on this device, in any stadium, people can go to web pages that allow them to gamble on NFL games?
Click to expand...
In theory, could they stop it? I don't know how sports betting sites work, but to play DFS you need your GPS on because it isn't legal in every State. I wonder if the NFL could negotiate/establish that if your GPS says you are in an NFL stadium than you can't bet. 

 
Ilov80s said:
In theory, could they stop it? I don't know how sports betting sites work, but to play DFS you need your GPS on because it isn't legal in every State. I wonder if the NFL could negotiate/establish that if your GPS says you are in an NFL stadium than you can't bet. 
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Seeing as how you can't stream Sunday Ticket within a certain distance of an NFL stadium, the technology already exists.  The question remains whether reputable gambling sites could be forced to implement it.  Unlike directv, theynwould have no league affiliation, so no contract pressure to comply.

 
Well if Amerson's contract averages $9.5 mil/year among CBs that ties him for 12th in the league with Aquib Talib & Sean Smith just ahead of Brandon Flowers ($9.1 mil/year & Vontae Davis @ $9 mil/year).  I don't think he was quite as good as Davis last year but some guys ahead of him are Byron Maxwell $10.5, Jimmy Smith $10.275, Brandon Carr $10.02 & Sam Shields $9.75 and I think Amerson played as well as any of those guys last season.

Can he do it again is the question?

 
Chaka said:
Well if Amerson's contract averages $9.5 mil/year among CBs that ties him for 12th in the league with Aquib Talib & Sean Smith just ahead of Brandon Flowers ($9.1 mil/year & Vontae Davis @ $9 mil/year).  I don't think he was quite as good as Davis last year but some guys ahead of him are Byron Maxwell $10.5, Jimmy Smith $10.275, Brandon Carr $10.02 & Sam Shields $9.75 and I think Amerson played as well as any of those guys last season.

Can he do it again is the question?
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The Raiders had to sign Amerson.  It was a move that makes sense today. 

 
2016 Vegas Win Total

The Raiders' Win Total opened at seven games and was quickly bet up to eight. Working in their favor is a schedule Warren Sharp assessed as the NFL's 12th softest, made up of the weak South divisions, the Bills (home), and the Ravens (away). Most important is vastly upgraded personnel; the Raiders' offensive line and defense look absolutely loaded on paper, and the skill positions are young and improving. And I wouldn't necessarily label this a free-agency built team because the core of Oakland's young talent has come via the draft and undrafted free agency. I think the Raiders can make a run at a Wild Card spot, or even the AFC West division crown this year. Yes, I'm buying the hype. I'd be willing to take the over on both 8.0 and 8.5 wins.

 
Chaka said:
Inside the David Amerson deal

TL:DR - Amerson is guaranteed to receive $5.5 million at signing, with rolling injury-only guarantees of $12 million. That’s a total of $17.5 million in generally (not actually) guaranteed money at signing.
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Not too long, did read. Phenomenal deal for both sides. In total it's 5 years/ $38MM (since it's a 4-yr extension of his current 1 yr remaining deal) and the last $1MM per year only kicks in if he's a first-ballot pro bowler, with the ability to cut him without cap consequence after any individual year (barring injury).

Reggie is operating at the very forefront of cap/contract management in the 2016 NFL. And he is an excellent talent evaluator. We went from one of the two or three worst GMs on these two merits in Al's last days to one of the two or three best. That dramatic turnaround has trickled down and we're just starting to see the roster bear fruit. Good times, Raider Nation.

NOW SIGN THE MAN TO AN EXTENSION BEFORE SOME OTHER OWNER WITH DEEP POCKETS DECIDES TO DO SO!!!!!!!

 
LawFitz said:
Not too long, did read. Phenomenal deal for both sides. In total it's 5 years/ $38MM (since it's a 4-yr extension of his current 1 yr remaining deal) and the last $1MM per year only kicks in if he's a first-ballot pro bowler, with the ability to cut him without cap consequence after any individual year (barring injury).

Reggie is operating at the very forefront of cap/contract management in the 2016 NFL. And he is an excellent talent evaluator. We went from one of the two or three worst GMs on these two merits in Al's last days to one of the two or three best. That dramatic turnaround has trickled down and we're just starting to see the roster bear fruit. Good times, Raider Nation.

NOW SIGN THE MAN TO AN EXTENSION BEFORE SOME OTHER OWNER WITH DEEP POCKETS DECIDES TO DO SO!!!!!!!
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Well he still drafted DJ Hayden in the first round but other than that he has been rock solid in the draft, free agency and on the wire.

 
^^^

1. 2013 draft was collectively the worst in the last couple decades in terms of how the players have panned out in the NFL.

2. Show me even one GM in NFL history with a 100% NFL draft success rate.

Reggie's done way more than enough to offset the ghosts of the 2013 draft. Heck, Amerson was a 2nd round pick in that draft and he's now ours, so there's your Hayden offset right there, by itself.

 
LawFitz said:
^^^

1. 2013 draft was collectively the worst in the last couple decades in terms of how the players have panned out in the NFL.

2. Show me even one GM in NFL history with a 100% NFL draft success rate.

Reggie's done way more than enough to offset the ghosts of the 2013 draft. Heck, Amerson was a 2nd round pick in that draft and he's now ours, so there's your Hayden offset right there, by itself.
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Then he should have traded our 1st rounder for a pair of '14 1st rounders.  We all saw it coming.

 
Amerson's deal by the years:

2016:  Cap number of $4 mill (I am including workout bonuses for all years, for more accurate cap numbers, but there is no workout bonus this year, obvi.)  

2017:  Cap number of 8.5 mill.  However, if we cut him after this year, we eat 1.5 mill next season.

2018:  Cap number of 6 mill.  No cap charge if cut.  

2019:  Cap number of 7.5 mill.  No cap charge if cut.

2018: Cap number of 7.58 mill.  No cap charge if cut.  

You can add 1 mill to any year, if he makes the Pro Bowl the previous year.  After this season, there's 1.5 mill fully guaranteed on the books.  

REG-GIE!!  REG-GIE!! 

:thumbup:

:towelwave:

:suds:

 
Am searching for a few books about the raiders. Have you any good recommendations?

So far i have only read the encounter Hunter S Thompson had with them back when he was around.

I have been searching around for "Snake" and it appears there may be a new biography on him coming out soon. any heard about this?

 
Sarlakticacid said:
Am searching for a few books about the raiders. Have you any good recommendations?

So far i have only read the encounter Hunter S Thompson had with them back when he was around.

I have been searching around for "Snake" and it appears there may be a new biography on him coming out soon. any heard about this?
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I read most of them I think.

Snake is good.

Matuszaks is better.

They call me assassin is great.

Maddens first book.

Grudens book has insight.

I read the two Al Davis bios.  Both were worth reading.  

 
Just Blog Baby is pretty average, it's a fan site after all, but I'm a big fan of their team preview they ar ein the midst of.  

THey ranked the players 1-80, and are writing about each player, starting at the bottom.  Nice writeups on every player.  I'm learning a lot.  

Players 80-71

They have Damontre Moore in here, which I approve of.  He shouldn't be any higher.  Jalen Richard is a RB Waldman liked, let's see if he gets some preseason action.  Jimmy Hall will be interesting to keep an eye on.

Players 70-61

Gabe Holmes is here at #68, but I feel like we all expect him to be the 3rd TE.  Two of the UDFA WR were in the last post, and a couple more here.  I think McCarffrey is being ranked over Hansley and the others because of name value.  

Players 60-51

Names people like in here.  Kirkland, Cowser, the rookie Cory James.  Sitting at #53???  My man Dexter McDonald.  

Little profile on the 6th rounder, Cory James

 
Gregg Rosenthal ranks the NFL's top 12 D-lines

Big deal, rankings.  Who cares?  I have no idea who the NFL 100 was.  However, I do find Rosenthal to be a condescending little twerp, and enjoy pointing out when I think he's really, really wrong.  

  Here's Gregg's writeup:

9. Oakland Raiders: Khalil Mack,Dan Williams, Mario Edwards,Justin Ellis

General manager Reggie McKenzie has secured a place long term with theRaiders, no matter what city they are playing in. The group above built from scratch is a huge reason why; none of them were on the roster in 2013. They show off the variety in McKenzie's team  building.

Mack is the franchise cornerstone, a top-15 NFL player taken with the No. 5 overall pick in 2014. Williams was a low-cost, space-eating free agency bargain. Ellis has uncommon versatility for a human who weighs 330 pounds. Edwards proved the draftniks wrong with a great rookie season as Mack's bookend and was cleared to play this offseason after a scary neck injury. This group can grow up together while McKenzie looks for some needed depth.
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I beg your pardon?  ''Needed depth''?  Our 4th edge rusher is Aldon Smith, putz.  

He ranks the following teams in front of the Raiders:

Seattle, Minnesota, Philly, Carolina, Giants, Bengals, Jets, Rams.  

Those 3 right in the middle, no way do I swap D-lines with any of them.  Philly has one stud DT, and pass rushers they like, but none of them looks special.  Carolina hastrwo DTs they like, one of whom is special, and no edge guys that can crack our rotation.  For real.  The Giants.........I won't even waste time on the argument, it's beneath me.  

The performance of the D-line in the 2nd half of the year was so massively different to the 1st half.  I don't know when as fans we stopped thinking we needed to outscore everyone, and started thinking the defense was carrying the team, but by the 2nd Broncos game, it as clear what the defense was capable of.  

 
Fortunately Reggie is prepared for this with the Irvin signing.  I was never really counting on getting him back.  Aside from him being a #######, I felt it was unlikely he got reinstated mid-year anyway, and with the Gordon stuff it just seemed less likely.  We already knew he was a moron and getting him back would have been a bonus in all ways, but unfortunately this isn't a big shock. 

 
Hankmoody said:
Fortunately Reggie is prepared for this with the Irvin signing.  I was never really counting on getting him back.  Aside from him being a #######, I felt it was unlikely he got reinstated mid-year anyway, and with the Gordon stuff it just seemed less likely.  We already knew he was a moron and getting him back would have been a bonus in all ways, but unfortunately this isn't a big shock. 
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Yep.

The weed isn't a problem.  Lots of players smoke.  

Stupidity is a problem.  Aldon, you aren't bright enough to be a Raider.  

 
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