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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)

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Capella said:
Come on. That can’t be real. 
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I had a room mate in college; when we were playing pickup games out on the quad, he would trash talk and say that you can't leave him open at half court, he'll take that shot all day.  He would and he'd always miss.  The misses never stopped him from saying it though.

 
Capella said:
Come on. That can’t be real. 
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Not sure what basketball reference's "heave" criteria is, but it has Simmons down for 8 heaves out of 11 3P attempts this year. 

ETA: Actually just found the definition. It's "attempts from beyond half court."

 
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i've watched Simmons a lot this year, being a divisional rival and one i'd disparaged, like Fultz, as a player whose 'immense' talents had done his college team little good in the way of W/L. My conclusions:

- tremendous mind & curiosity to go with that once-a-gen eye. watching his growth as a defender during the regular season was a pleasure, esp early when you could see him get better at things over the course of a single game.

- does NOT like to do anything poorly, and reacts millennially when he's made to. this is why he just doesnt shoot, why he should have been immediately been shown the benefits of the 2-man game with Embiid (requiring the 15-footer which he could have managed but no one teaches anymore) and never should have been put at the top of the key to begin with. Fultz schizzing-out gave them little choice, which was why i lobbied hard for the Sixers to trade for Kemba (a PG who can play SG and could bring the ball up & defend the point (the Sixers biggest reg season weakness) when the Hornets put him on the market.

- his post-season confusions were a direct result of the 16-game win streak. that streak was achieved as the Boss, the floor all his. making room for Daddy coming back, if not a personal affront, made the floor anything but open and brought ego into his play. yet another case of "what can Brown NOT do for you" leaving Simmons confused & butthurt by why his game was largely ignored in name of the Process after an almost quarter-season-long undefeated stretch.

 
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JuniorNB said:
I compared to Simmons rookie stats to one of the best players who ever lace them up. And Simmons stats are every bit as good. If you're trying to get me to say something bad about magic, it will never happen. One of my favorite players ever. Just loving what the future holds for Simmons and the Sixers. 
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The reason I'm engaging you is because the comparison is saying something bad about Magic or ridiculously great about Ben. Magic took down Dr J, Chocolate Thunder, Bobby Jones, Maurice Cheeks and Lionell Hollins without Jabbar. He had Wilkes, Nixon and Cooper. He played spectacularly, willed his team to a championship as a rookie. That's a stat. Magic 1 (100% rookie championships). Ben 0 (0%). Ben played like a deer in the headlights on both ends of the court over and over again. He looked bewildered for entire quarters at a time. He did this to the point that the 6ers got big lifts from McConnell with Ben's rump on the pine, ffs. Drop the Magic comparisons and I'll disengage. Try Fat Lever. He averaged 19, 9, 8 one year Denver bowed out early like Philly (as opposed to winning a title like Magic). Actually Fat was way better than Ben, if you know, stats are how you judge players. He actually hit some threes too.

 
msudaisy26 said:
, to Simmons is so bad he will be cut. 
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Nobody has said or even implied this. I even went as far to say he’s great. Your problem is you aren’t willing to listen to any objective criticism of your favorite players without making  up some ridiculous hyperbolic comments that nobody said. 

 
Frostillicus said:
Michael Bauer?
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I had to google him.  Apparently I've avoided following them since I graduated.  Looks like Michael made a few.  My room mate made not a single one I ever saw him attempt.  Also had one of our buddies offer to spot him 10 points to get to 11, 1 on 1 for $100.  Room mate always weaseled out of it.

 
JuniorNB said:
I bet the Sixers cut him. ROFL.  Dude, we get your point. You prefer Mitchell. You're kind of going a little overboard now acting like the guy sucks. If you want any basketball credibility at all, you might want to tone down the shtick. 
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Capella said:
Nobody has said or even implied this. I even went as far to say he’s great. Your problem is you aren’t willing to listen to any objective criticism of your favorite players without making  up some ridiculous hyperbolic comments that nobody said. 
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He’s a Sixers fan...doing the same thing she was doing. The ROFL and the rest of his post wasn’t a hint? ?

 
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Chaos Commish said:
The reason I'm engaging you is because the comparison is saying something bad about Magic or ridiculously great about Ben. Magic took down Dr J, Chocolate Thunder, Bobby Jones, Maurice Cheeks and Lionell Hollins without Jabbar. He had Wilkes, Nixon and Cooper. He played spectacularly, willed his team to a championship as a rookie. That's a stat. Magic 1 (100% rookie championships). Ben 0 (0%). Ben played like a deer in the headlights on both ends of the court over and over again. He looked bewildered for entire quarters at a time. He did this to the point that the 6ers got big lifts from McConnell with Ben's rump on the pine, ffs. Drop the Magic comparisons and I'll disengage. Try Fat Lever. He averaged 19, 9, 8 one year Denver bowed out early like Philly (as opposed to winning a title like Magic). Actually Fat was way better than Ben, if you know, stats are how you judge players. He actually hit some threes too.
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Why would I want you to disengage? I could have this conversation all day everyday. I know you're more intelligent than you're letting on but I'm going to say this in a simpler way so that I'm sure you understand this time. Ben Simmons is not as good as  Magic Johnson. Are we clear on that? Can you understand that I agree with you on that? And can you now move past it? What I said was, and we'll stand by, is that Ben Simmons has a similar skill set. He's a big man who is a good ball-handler, great penetrator, has awesome court vision, and can rebound like a power forward. Where they are dissimilar, is that Magic Johnson was a better shooter then Simmons is. And now I will repeat something else I've said multiple times. I hope that Simmons develops a jump shot. That will take him from a very good player, to a great player in this league. Is there anything in that that you disagree with?

 
JuniorNB said:
Why would I want you to disengage? I could have this conversation all day everyday. I know you're more intelligent than you're letting on but I'm going to say this in a simpler way so that I'm sure you understand this time. Ben Simmons is not as good as  Magic Johnson. Are we clear on that? Can you understand that I agree with you on that? And can you now move past it? What I said was, and we'll stand by, is that Ben Simmons has a similar skill set. He's a big man who is a good ball-handler, great penetrator, has awesome court vision, and can rebound like a power forward. Where they are dissimilar, is that Magic Johnson was a better shooter then Simmons is. And now I will repeat something else I've said multiple times. I hope that Simmons develops a jump shot. That will take him from a very good player, to a great player in this league. Is there anything in that that you disagree with?
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Um... dammit... no.

 
Chaos Commish said:
. Drop the Magic comparisons and I'll disengage. Try Fat Lever. He averaged 19, 9, 8 one year Denver bowed out early like Philly (as opposed to winning a title like Magic). Actually Fat was way better than Ben, if you know, stats are how you judge players. He actually hit some threes too.
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would the start of Jason Kidd's career be a useful comparison?  My memory is not what used to be but I seem to remember him being similar to Ben in that he was above average in everything except shooting.

 
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NewlyRetired said:
would the start of Jason Kidd's career be a useful comparison?  My memory is not what used to be but I seem to remember him being similar to Ben in that he was above average in everything except shooting.
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Yup and it took 17 years in a less 3 pt intensive league for him to get a ring in Dallas.

 
NewlyRetired said:
would the start of Jason Kidd's career be a useful comparison?  My memory is not what used to be but I seem to remember him being similar to Ben in that he was above average in everything except shooting.
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I don't think you can make career arc comparisons to past players with the current state of the game.  Shooting is essential.  

 
NewlyRetired said:
would the start of Jason Kidd's career be a useful comparison?  My memory is not what used to be but I seem to remember him being similar to Ben in that he was above average in everything except shooting.
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If we’re comparing the outside shooting and trying to project Simmons going forward, Kidd was still way ahead of Simmons, shooting 27% on 3.3 attempts per game as a rookie. Rondo was mentioned earlier and I think that’s as close as we’re going to get. 

 
thecatch said:
If we’re comparing the outside shooting and trying to project Simmons going forward, Kidd was still way ahead of Simmons, shooting 27% on 3.3 attempts per game as a rookie. Rondo was mentioned earlier and I think that’s as close as we’re going to get. 
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We should probably stipulate that comparing three pointers is always a waste here with Simmons because of how epic it was.  There has to be an incredibly small amount of NBA rookie guards in history that made no 3 pointers, with any where near his minutes.

 
TobiasFunke said:
If you'd like to get back on track I can drop a couple more turd predictions and then double back later to mock my own stupidity.
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it's funny looking back at the last 3 pages, I am sure it is much different looking at it from the outside after all the posts, but this was quite a #### show in here today. So yeah, predictions are always fun :) .

I think Cavs are hitting their stride, and Celtics seem to be a little worn down. Rest should help them, but I think Cavs in 6. Warriors-Rockets will be a lot of fun, but Warriors in 7.

 
My new terrible prediction:

I think the Warriors are going to roll the Rockets in 5 or fewer. I think it's a good matchup for them on the court- as their length, athleticism and ability to switch 1-5 will allow them to contest the Rockets at the 3 point line in a way other teams can't. I also kinda suspect they've been on cruise control basically since signing Durant and this Rockets team- really the first team since then that the media and public have treated as their peers- will motivate them to play at a level we've never seen before.

I've given up on trying to figure out anything involving the Celtics.

 
It was either ESPN or NBATV that flashed Simmons' shot chart vs. Boston.  Not a single made basket from outside the paint in the series.

 
no way I am getting stuck in this vortex, but is it not more telling that he was 0-0 from legit 3's for the entire season and post-season? and everybody acts like Sixers fans are happy about this, well nobody is doing flips that I know. But I also am aware that Brett has a plan with Simmons (has known him since he was an infant and has been working with him sporadically since his youth) and that they are sticking to it. I think we can all agree it is strange that a pro NBA player refuses to shoot like he has, but I don't think it was done without a plan.

Maybe Brett and some shooting coaches believe strongly he has been shooting with the wrong hand, and instead of encouraging his muscle memory by shooting this season, they encouraged him to not shoot jumpers knowing this off-season they would work on it, and maybe build it from scratch. :shrug: .

I have no idea, but at a certain point we need to trust the coach. definitely dangerous, but with him not attempting a long jumper or 3 all year, in any capacity outside of buzzer heaves, it would seem to be something that is being done on purpose

I would think priorities going into the season were 1) stay healthy all year and 2) learn the PG position

 
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TobiasFunke said:
My new terrible prediction:

I think the Warriors are going to roll the Rockets in 5 or fewer. I think it's a good matchup for them on the court- as their length, athleticism and ability to switch 1-5 will allow them to contest the Rockets at the 3 point line in a way other teams can't. I also kinda suspect they've been on cruise control basically since signing Durant and this Rockets team- really the first team since then that the media and public have treated as their peers- will motivate them to play at a level we've never seen before.

I've given up on trying to figure out anything involving the Celtics.
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Exactly my thoughts and my predictions have been equally as bad. 

The Celtics and Cavs are weird. Both looked like they could go down in the 1st round and then look very impressive round 2. So they are going to give us the best series in NBA history or set basketball back to the peach basket days. 

 
Capella said:
Right. You could see the Celtics just drag off him when he was at the top of the key, just begging him to shoot. They were playing 4 on 5 with him on offense at times. They had no chance with that guy out there. 
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Capella said:
Nobody has said or even implied this. I even went as far to say he’s great. Your problem is you aren’t willing to listen to any objective criticism of your favorite players without making  up some ridiculous hyperbolic comments that nobody said. 
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To be fair saying the Sixers had no chance with Simmons playing is a little hyperbolic.  I thought all but game 1 could have gone either way. :shrug:

 
NewlyRetired said:
We should probably stipulate that comparing three pointers is always a waste here with Simmons because of how epic it was.  There has to be an incredibly small amount of NBA rookie guards in history that made no 3 pointers, with any where near his minutes.
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Exactly, he is a historic player.

 
Can you guys go back to discussing how the Cavs came back from 3-1 down to beat the Warriors? *Simmonschatdeactivate*

Thx sincerely,

Lurkers Anonymous

 
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NewlyRetired said:
We should probably stipulate that comparing three pointers is always a waste here with Simmons because of how epic it was.  There has to be an incredibly small amount of NBA rookie guards in history that made no 3 pointers, with any where near his minutes.
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Ya wanna know who did it (not as a rookie).  Magic ####### Johnson, that’s who.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/psl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=single&type=totals&per_minute_base=36&per_poss_base=100&season_start=1&season_end=-1&lg_id=NBA&age_min=0&age_max=99&is_playoffs=N&height_min=0&height_max=99&birth_country_is=Y&as_comp=gt&as_val=0&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&c1stat=fg3&c1comp=eq&c1val=0&c2stat=mp&c2comp=gt&c2val=500&order_by=ws

 
Tom Hagen said:
To be fair saying the Sixers had no chance with Simmons playing is a little hyperbolic.  I thought all but game 1 could have gone either way. :shrug:
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Exactly. In the very thread where everybody is talking about what a genius Stevens is and how awesome all of their players are, we have guys talking about the Sixers like the process has failed and they need to go back to the drawing board. If two shots fall for the Sixers, they're taking a 3-2 lead into a home game six. The overreactions of people are absolutely hilarious.

 
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