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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (3 Viewers)

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Max Power said:
I hate hearing the Cavs players are talking Butler into not coming.  I'd love to see Kyrie or Lebron as a Bull.  Kyrie and Butler seem to be very close.  I hope the Bulls can trade a pick and future firsts for the guy if LeBron bolts.
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I think people overrate Irving to a certain degree but that doesn't mean I wouldn't take him. He's the type of shooter Wade and Butler need 

 
need2know said:
This guy is gonna be a super star.  Just got to wait another 5 years or so for the rest of his game to come along
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Drummond has started 335 games in his career.  He is who he is.

A change of scenery may help him a bit but super stardom probably ain't gonna happen, especially in Sacramento.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Is this about Melo or KP? If KP I disagree if this guy puts on some muscle the sky is limit for him, he could be Dirk with defense.
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You are waaaaaay underselling Dirk if you believe this.

I'm also not convinced that Porzingis is a great defender. He doesn't move well enough laterally to stay in front of modern 4s and he isn't strong enough to play with 5s. He is a fantastic shot blocker because of his length and coordination, but that does not make a great defender (see McGee, Javale). I think he'll be a plus defensively eventually, because he is mobile for a guy his height, but that isn't a sure thing and he's not there yet.

And again, this isn't because I'm down on him, but some of you in here think he is surefire future HOFer. I think his realistic ceiling is more of a #1 option on a bad team, #2 option on a good team type (prime LMA/Horford type).

 
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modogg said:
they also do not have the ceiling the Sixers have. Realistically, the Sixers should have the core of Embiid, Saric, Covington, Fultz, and Simmons for the next 7-9 years. They have tons of cap space too, which Boston does not have. 

Outside of Celtics fans, i would think most would rather be in Philly position rather than Boston. Boston is certainly sexier in the present, but lot more questions in the next 2-3 years. Injuries aside (which we all know is not possible), SIxers are in a better situation because of Hinkie and Colangelo now. 

Not sure why DJackson has the hate for Hinkie, it is strange to constantly discount the guy when the team is still reaping the benefits. i get the idea of not being a fan of tanking, but as a fan of the team that actually did, we sucked it up for 3 years to reap a legit chance at a championship in the future. 
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Because I hate people and teams tanking doesn't mean it's right if teams are doing it. I'd hate if Chicago tanked. What does that prove? The lottery is there to position teams not to tank and allow teams to try and actually build competitive teams. It's like People who gave Mike Rizzo in Wash a ton of credit for how well the Nationals got better with Strasburg and Harper. Well any GM if they had the benefit of drafting the clear top prospect in any given sport two yrs straight will look good. I think Hinkie lucked his way into both Noel and Embiid. If Embiid doesn't get hurt in College he's probably a Cav right now as teams balked on him do to injury history. Noel would've went top 3 if not hurt. Again I said before you do need luck to go along with this as well to go your way. Also I have a huge difference of opinion to most Sixers fans on Simmons. I think he's one of the most overrated players to come out in the last 10 yrs. I've already went over why I don't like him as a player. This isn't to say he won't be a decent player though. I just see him as another Rudy Gay type player. It's why I'm not big on the Sixers like many fans are. I just don't see the hype in Simmons and don't view him as a top player at his position unless he really developed a lot more in key areas. 

 
Kev4029 said:
You are waaaaaay underselling Dirk if you believe this.

I'm also not convinced that Porzingis is a great defender. He doesn't move well enough laterally to stay in front of modern 4s and he isn't strong enough to play with 5s. He is a fantastic shot blocker because of his length and coordination, but that does not make a great defender (see McGee, Javale). I think he'll be a plus defensively eventually, because he is mobile for a guy his height, but that isn't a sure thing and he's not there yet.

And again, this isn't because I'm down on him, but some of you in here think he is surefire future HOFer. I think his realistic ceiling is more of a #1 option on a bad team, #2 option on a good team type (prime LMA/Horford type).
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Dirk was incredible, especially offensively, but at his best he was slightly below average defensively. KP isn't a great defender yet, but I think he will gain strength. He was extremely raw coming into the league. It isn't a hot take to think he will continue to improve especially if the team and coach around him change/improve. LMA was a beast for a few years with Portland, if KP becomes that and a plus defender as he fills out his frame he will be top 20 player in the league for a long time.

 
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Kev4029 said:
You are waaaaaay underselling Dirk if you believe this.

I'm also not convinced that Porzingis is a great defender. He doesn't move well enough laterally to stay in front of modern 4s and he isn't strong enough to play with 5s. He is a fantastic shot blocker because of his length and coordination, but that does not make a great defender (see McGee, Javale). I think he'll be a plus defensively eventually, because he is mobile for a guy his height, but that isn't a sure thing and he's not there yet.

And again, this isn't because I'm down on him, but some of you in here think he is surefire future HOFer. I think his realistic ceiling is more of a #1 option on a bad team, #2 option on a good team type (prime LMA/Horford type).
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:goodposting:

 
Chemical X said:
and not for nothing, for a guy that misses chunks of seasons, joel embiid sure does yap alot  why not play more than 31 games then you can blabber about.. 
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I actually agree with you but considering how loved the guy is here I'm afraid to say anything bad because people will act like I slept with their mother and go LeBron on me. 

 
Long Ball Larry said:
he likes to have fun.  what a scumbag.
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I kind of agree with him in away though. I mean I like the guy as a player and not even being a fan I was pretty upset he was at a dam concert throwing his body around dancing on stage with an injury. Plus he's only played 31 games in 3 seasons of the NBA. I like the guy but he needs to focus more of basketball then getting in Rihanna's pants. 

 
Spartans Rule said:
He's not overrated as a player - he's legitimately awesome. But his foot problem isn't one that just goes away and I wouldn't be at all surprised if he's out of the league in a couple years.
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That's what I was afraid of in college. I talked to friends who are sixers fans about his foot issues and even mentioned Yao Ming. At the time he was in the draft he has the potential to be a great guy and for the Sixers if they had a chance to get him they had to take the risk given their lack of star talent at the time. Speaking of Yao Ming did you know Yao isn't his first name it's Ming? The Chinese write their last name first and first name last. 

 
Chemical X said:
what i would say about that is that KP was severely hampered being paired with melo and rose.  he regressed last year and rightly so with 2 ball black holes on the floor.  he is 7'3" and runs the floor, has a real good handle and shoots the 3.  he needs a pass first PG that can kick and a low post guy that will draw a double.  he reminds me of dirk, who won with Kidd.  though he is 7'3" he is not a C and he wont be posting huge rebound numbers if he is guarding a 3 or stretch 4.  hgomez seemed a good rebounder, but not a rim protector.  they need a PG and to find a home for melo.  problem is, his game fits nowhere and with no one, which speaks volumes about his value.
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Rose, Melo, and Noah are a bad match for him, Rose especially. If they wanted to win games, they would have started Porzingis at the 5 and Melo at the 4. They would have been bad defensively, and gotten crushed on the boards, but it would have been a fun run and gun style. Melo is a very good PF and a mediocre SF, but the Knicks haven't figured that out in the 5 years or whatever that they have had him.

About Porzingis' rebounding, he is a middling to poor rebounder as a PF, compared to centers (which is where he'll be playing in 3-4 years), he is horrendous. He had a REB% of 11.8 which rates well into the bottom half of PFs and in the bottom 5 in centers.

 
modogg said:
:boxing:  

i'd rather hear from Embiid for a year then our president's twitter.

guy has personality, can't hate him for it
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Don't think you can hate him for personality but he does seem a little immature and that was one of the things I read the Sixers kind of worried about him. Remember the shirley Temple stories and him not taking his rehab seriously year 1? 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Dirk was incredible, especially offensively, but at his best he was slightly below average defensively. KP isn't a great defender yet, but I think he will gain strength. He was extremely raw coming into the league. It isn't a hot take to think he will continue to improve especially if the team and coach around him change/improve. LMA was a beast for a few years with Portland, if KP becomes that and a plus defender as he fills out his frame he will be top 20 player in the league for a long time.
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I don't disagree about Porzingis probably becoming a much better defensive player, but it really doesn't factor much into my comparison for a couple reasons. First, defense from the PF spot wasn't nearly as important 8-15 years ago when Dirk was in his prime, especially next to a good defensive center. Teams didn't exploit him in the P&R as mercilessly as they would now and he wasn't playing against as many combo forwards as we are seeing in today's NBA that he wouldn't be able to chase around. Second, unless you are a massive liability defensively, scheme and surrounding personnel can cover for many deficiencies, so offensive ability is much more important than defensive ability. Dirk is probably the best offensive power forward to ever play the game and one of the best half dozen shooters at any position ever. Porzingis has a decent handle for a PF and shoots well for a 7 footer. The gap between the two offensively is enormous.

 
Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavs Jimmy Butler trade talks are dead. Bulls were trying to get Kyrie Irving in package deal for Butler. 

Source: Sam Amico
 

 
The Suns and Nuggets discussed a trade that would feature Eric Bledsoe in exchange for Emmanuel Mudiay and the No. 13 pick, according to Chris Haynes of ESPN.com.

They are loading up for a run at Butler!!! :wub:

 
Trade discussions involving Jimmy Butler continue to take place, but those talks don’t include the Celtics, and haven’t “for a while,” according to Steve Bulpett of The Boston Herald

 
DJackson10 said:
Chicago Bulls and Cleveland Cavs Jimmy Butler trade talks are dead. Bulls were trying to get Kyrie Irving in package deal for Butler. 

Source: Sam Amico
 
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That'd be sick but you'd imagine Kyrie is untouchable. He's going to be "the guy" once Lebron leaves town.

 
The Nuggets, who spoke to the Bulls at the February trade deadline about Jimmy Butler, have engaged with Chicago again as the draft approaches, a source tells Jeff Goodman of ESPN. According to Goodman, any offer Denver makes obviously wouldn’t include Nikola Jokic, but would feature multiple young players and draft picks.

Butler, of course, has reportedly indicated that he wants to remain with the Bulls. And while a fondness for Chicago and his Bulls teammates may play a part in that stance, he’s also aware that he’ll no longer be eligible for a potential Designated Veteran Extension if he’s traded. Butler would be eligible for that super-max extension if he earns an All-NBA nod next year, but only if he remains on the Bulls, which is the “real reason” he doesn’t want to be moved, tweets Chris Broussard of Fox Sports 1.

 
Sources tell Berman that the Mavericks, who are also in the market for a point guard, talked to the Timberwolves about trading up from the ninth pick to the seventh to have a shot at Ntilikina, but talks collapsed because of Minnesota’s high asking price. The Wolves would prefer to use that pick as part of a package to get Jimmy Butler from the Bulls. Today’s workout was conducted by former Knicks player developmental coach Chris Brickley, who tutored Ntilikina last summer.

June 22nd 2017 at 2:30pm CST by Arthur Hill 

Jimmy Butler continues to be very much in demand, according to a post from Ian Begley on ESPN Now. Executives from other teams believe the Timberwolves are offering the seventh pick in tonight’s draft as part of a package to get the Bulls to re-open trade talks. Minnesota coach/executive Tom Thibodeau coached Butler in Chicago and is eager for a reunion. The Cavaliers made an unsuccessful offer for Butler, and sources relayed to ESPN.com’s Marc Stein that Butler’s preference is to stay with the Bulls. The Timberwolves are also talking to the Pacers about Paul George, Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical tweets.

There are more trade rumors as the draft draws nearer:

The Wolves are once again trying to find takers for Ricky Rubio, tweets Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical. Earlier reports identified the Mavericks and Knicks as teams that might have interest in the sixth-year point guard, who still has two seasons and more than $29MM left on his contract.

 
DJackson10 said:
Sources tell Berman that the Mavericks, who are also in the market for a point guard, talked to the Timberwolves about trading up from the ninth pick to the seventh to have a shot at Ntilikina, but talks collapsed because of Minnesota’s high asking price. The Wolves would prefer to use that pick as part of a package to get Jimmy Butler from the Bulls. Today’s workout was conducted by former Knicks player developmental coach Chris Brickley, who tutored Ntilikina last summer.

June 22nd 2017 at 2:30pm CST by Arthur Hill 

Jimmy Butler continues to be very much in demand, according to a post from Ian Begley on ESPN Now. Executives from other teams believe the Timberwolves are offering the seventh pick in tonight’s draft as part of a package to get the Bulls to re-open trade talks. Minnesota coach/executive Tom Thibodeau coached Butler in Chicago and is eager for a reunion. The Cavaliers made an unsuccessful offer for Butler, and sources relayed to ESPN.com’s Marc Stein that Butler’s preference is to stay with the Bulls. The Timberwolves are also talking to the Pacers about Paul George, Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical tweets.

There are more trade rumors as the draft draws nearer:

The Wolves are once again trying to find takers for Ricky Rubio, tweets Adrian Wojnarowski of The Vertical. Earlier reports identified the Mavericks and Knicks as teams that might have interest in the sixth-year point guard, who still has two seasons and more than $29MM left on his contract.
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The baby Wolves can't have Butler, because Thibs is stupid and would run Butler into the ground by time he was 30. Plus Butler wants warm weather after all those years in Chicago!

 
Right now is the time someone needs to swoop in and get George, everyone is focused on Butler, KP, picks, dumping salary and the market has cooled. If the Lakers upped their first offer a little I bet they could get it done tonight.

 
msudaisy26 said:
Right now is the time someone needs to swoop in and get George, everyone is focused on Butler, KP, picks, dumping salary and the market has cooled. If the Lakers upped their first offer a little I bet they could get it done tonight.
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Up their offer with what?  The #2 pick?  

 
Paul George is such an enigma to me. How can someone be so dominant during a game but so terrible at being clutch?

Dude is 0-15 on go-ahead shots with 20 seconds or less left since he joined the league.

Which is funny because he has a Gatorade commercial with him hitting a buzzer beater, something he's never done in the NBA.

 
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msudaisy26 said:
If I remember correctly they offered choice of Randle or Clarkson, 22 and 27. So up it to Randle and Clarkson 22, 27 and something else. Ennis or Zubac? do they have anyone stashed in Europe?
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I think Indy could do better. Even if he says he's going to LA, surely someone would offer more as a gamble.

 
Donkey Derp said:
LeBron is leaving.  He couldn't care less what happens there.
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He cares for this year. If he could give away all the Cavs draft picks for the next 10 years and send Gilbert a mile into the luxury tax he would do it in and walk away after the year and whisper "Win a title before me or without me" and chuckle on the way out.

 
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