What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (1 Viewer)

Status
Not open for further replies.
The Sixers 4th quarter offense has been really bad all year. The other day they were -8.5 for the game, and -7 for the first half, which is nuts. It's no surprise that somebody was able to figure out a way to stifle their offense in a playoff series.

I think people thought they would go far due to their favorable draw and Boston's injury situation but this is where they "should" be losing all things considered. They are young and way too talented, they will figure it out soon enough. 

 
DJackson10 said:
I didn't think Sixers had much of a chance in the series. The threes they are making they are still making the crazy off balanced ones that if they shouldn't be making that's kept them in games like the Bellinelli one to tie it. Boston also has better shooters, a better coach and better defense. I think some people got caught in the moment with Philly with their win streak. Boston has exposed a lot of weaknesses the 76ers still have especially in Simmons game offensively and defensively as well as Embiid's post game. The Sixers have a bright future if they can work on their weaknesses but like Brown said Boston is a team who can exploit their weaknesses. 
Click to expand...
Yeah it's weird how people think a team has a good chance of winning some basketball games just because they've been winning a lot of basketball games ;)

Also I'm not sure Boston has better shooters. The teams were only separated by .008% in the regular season and that was with Kyrie Irving playing most of the season and Belinelli coming over late.

In retrospect I think people lost sight of Simmons still being a rookie and prone to rookie mistakes, and the possibility that Embiid would be limited because of the injury, whether because of the mask or conditioning or both. At least that's where I think I went wrong.

 
I'm obviously disappointed with how this series turned out. At this point I just want them to go out and play the way they've been playing this whole second half. If they lose chucking up 3's and moving the ball up and down the court, so be it. At least they went out playing their game. Dumping it down to Embiid will get you a 2 most of the time but it also takes a lot longer to do. Eating clock and shortening the game plays right into the Celtics hands. 

Hopefully we win tonight to at least show they have some kind of pride. They can build off of that, maybe steal game 5 but we all know this series is over. It will be an interesting off-season to say the least. We'll be talking about LeBron from here until July.

 
modogg said:
I read a nice article about Tatum's points, and it pointed out that the majority of Tatum's points have been designed plays to exploit against Reddick and Bellinelli. 
Click to expand...
Link to this article, please? Here's all Tatum's points but one free throw in game 3. Redick wasn't near him on any of his scoring plays. Covington was helpless without help. Belinelli had help that didn't help.

Notes:

beats Covington 2
beats Saric 5
beats Covington 7
beats Covington 9 
beats Covington 11
beats Belinelli then Saric at the rim 13
beats Belinelli then out rebounds Saric for the put back 15
beats Covington 17
beats Simmons 19
beats Embiid 21
beats Belinelli off dribble and Embiid at rim 23

eta: Also there's three or four pick and rolls and high screens in that vid but the majority of Tatum's points didn't come from any genius design by Stevens exploiting JJ and Marco. The majority of those points show Tatum beating a defender, any defender, one on one.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
metoo said:
Everyone always says how players have to defer to LeBron but not the opposite. No Kyrie on this team shows us how great LeBron is.
Click to expand...
No it just shows us that Lebron can pad his stats without a great player. We live in an era where padding stats matters most. A lot of people are mad KD left OKC but I would've if I had to play with Westbrook who only cared about his stats too. It's a dam shame they baby that guy and Billy D will probably be fired in the next 2 yrs all because of him. Russ reminds me a bit of AI. Great player but he's never gonna win you a title. Care way too much about himself and stats. I will say compared to AI off the court Russ seems to have his life in order. Kyrie is way better then Kevin Love. People overrate Love because he's a 7 footer who can shoot. If he didn't have that I doubt he's a DD guy nightly. Without Kyrie hitting the 3 Lebron doesn't have a title in Clevland without him. 

Updated to Lebron's 14th season

Michael Jordan has 
•3 more rings 
•3 more final mvps 
•1 more DPOY 
•1 more season MVP 
•9 more scoring titles 
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer
•800 more steals 
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals 
Lebron did it twice 
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more help 
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals..
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26 
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs 
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron is in his 14th season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago that the media and league desperately want him to be"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg. 
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics. 
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line. 
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this. 
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%. 

•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3. 
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
* MJ never allowed a team to celebrate on his home court in the finals. Lebron has had it happen twice

*MJ never had a player on the opposing team out score him in a series especially an over the hill player. Jason Terry did it to Lebron in the 2011 finals

*Lebron was up 2-1 against GS but when Kyrie got hurt they lost the series

*Lebron has never 3peated. Every year after winning two straight he's lost the 3rd

So tell me again how this proves Lebron is better? 

 
I am not quoting that, but  :lmao:   

Also not sure where you are getting your info, but just off the top of my head I know some of it is wrong. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Insein said:
I'm obviously disappointed with how this series turned out. At this point I just want them to go out and play the way they've been playing this whole second half. If they lose chucking up 3's and moving the ball up and down the court, so be it. At least they went out playing their game. Dumping it down to Embiid will get you a 2 most of the time but it also takes a lot longer to do. Eating clock and shortening the game plays right into the Celtics hands. 

Hopefully we win tonight to at least show they have some kind of pride. They can build off of that, maybe steal game 5 but we all know this series is over. It will be an interesting off-season to say the least. We'll be talking about LeBron from here until July.
Click to expand...
This.  The series ended when Horford scored in OT Saturday. It's hard to step away and look at the big picture after Philly ended the season so well, but just think of how far ahead of schedule they are.  Already a top 8 team in the league and their two biggest stars are babies. And while a 4-0 or 4-1 series loss may sound lopsided, the games themselves could have gone either way. By no means are they outclassed. When the season started, if anyone had told me the Sixers would make it to the Eastern semis, I'd have laughed in their face. 

 
DJackson10 said:
No it just shows us that Lebron can pad his stats without a great player. We live in an era where padding stats matters most. A lot of people are mad KD left OKC but I would've if I had to play with Westbrook who only cared about his stats too. It's a dam shame they baby that guy and Billy D will probably be fired in the next 2 yrs all because of him. Russ reminds me a bit of AI. Great player but he's never gonna win you a title. Care way too much about himself and stats. I will say compared to AI off the court Russ seems to have his life in order. Kyrie is way better then Kevin Love. People overrate Love because he's a 7 footer who can shoot. If he didn't have that I doubt he's a DD guy nightly. Without Kyrie hitting the 3 Lebron doesn't have a title in Clevland without him. 

Updated to Lebron's 14th season

Michael Jordan has 
•3 more rings 
•3 more final mvps 
•1 more DPOY 
•1 more season MVP 
•9 more scoring titles 
•3 more steals leader
•3 more all defensive team selections
•4000 more points / bron moved past him in playoff points, but it took him longer
•800 more steals 
•Beat 20 50+ win teams in the playoffs (Lebron only defeated 10)
•Jordan never averaged less than 40% Field Goal in the finals 
Lebron did it twice 
•6/6 (never allowed a game 7)
•Lebron had much more help 
•Jordan never had a teammate averaged more than 22 points in the finals..
Kyrie averaged over 28 and DWade averaged more than 26 
•MJ never ever had a finals meltdown like Lebron in 2011 against the Mavs 
•MJ had more points in the playoffs in less games..
All of this accomplished in 13 seasons
Lebron is in his 14th season still chasing the "ghost that played in Chicago that the media and league desperately want him to be"
•Michael Jordan in the playoffs has put up atleast 40ppg, 5rpg, 5apg in 6 different playoff series. Along with an average of about 55% shooting, 3spg and 2bpg. 
(86 vs bos, 89 vs cavs, 90 vs philly, 92 vs Miami, 93 vs Phoenix, 88 vs cavs) Jordan won every one of those matchups except for the 1986 matchup vs the celtics. 
•Jordan in 88-89 averaged 32ppg, 8apg, 8rpg, 3spg off 54% shooting. LeBron has never even came close to this stat line. 
•in 87 thru 92, MJ averaged 5 straight seasons of atleast 51% FG shooting. LeBron has never done this. 
•the lowest FT% MJ ever shot in a season was 78%. Lebrons highest in a season ever is 78%. 

•MJ has a higher playoff FG% of 48.7% to Lebrons 48.3%
•MJ has a higher playoff player efficiency rating of 28.6 to Lebrons 27.3. 
•MJ shoots a higher playoff 3 point percentage of 33.2% to Lebrons 32.9%
* MJ never allowed a team to celebrate on his home court in the finals. Lebron has had it happen twice

*MJ never had a player on the opposing team out score him in a series especially an over the hill player. Jason Terry did it to Lebron in the 2011 finals

*Lebron was up 2-1 against GS but when Kyrie got hurt they lost the series

*Lebron has never 3peated. Every year after winning two straight he's lost the 3rd

So tell me again how this proves Lebron is better? 
Click to expand...
People fall on both sides of this argument. It really doesn't matter to me. What can't be disputed is that they are easily the best two players the game has ever seen. 

 
msudaisy26 said:
Almost all these guys are entitled and have been for a long time(Like 50 + years)  The difference is social media and coverage of sports. It is 24/7/365. There is nothing they can do that is private anymore. 
Click to expand...
Social media sure. I had a boss who worked at the store on the main line near the Philly news stations AI frequented. Said if we had social media we did today (This was just 6 yrs ago he said this but worked there during AI's playing days. John leClaire, Aaron McKie, Eric Lindros and many athletes in the area went shopping there) he doesn't think Philly fans would've been as supportive of AI as they are. The only reason AI was never charged with anything or arrested was because the Store Director there was a huge 76ers fan and the Sixers PR staff would just throw free stuff at him. There was an incident right before the Finals against the Lakers that happened and they ended up giving him Tickets to all the final games in a private box for his whole family plus season tickets for the next year. 

At my old board one poster and I were discussing Domestic violence and people's perception how people changed their view on Ray Rice after seeing the video. People human nature unless they see it with their own eyes don't make things a big deal unless they see it themselves happening with their eyes. I agree with that. Back then all we heard was the reports of AI in Trouble. No one made a big deal of DV against Braves Manager Bobby Cox and other athletes like they do now. Granted different world but if we had the technology and social media then I think people would view some of these guys differently. However I can't just blame social media Some of these guys like Russel Westbrook cater to that sort of spotlight and have woo is me moments and then try to play the victim card when called out on it. For example what Kanye just said about Slavery recently. It was stupid but Kanye is only doing it to put spotlight on him. Thats all. In the entertainment industry theres this saying. No coverage about you is bad but any PR coverage is good no matter if its bad or good. At least people are talking about you. Same can be said in the AI situation here. People heard what he did but a lot of people really brushed it off. Wasn't until one year I was at the pool a few of the dads were talking about the guy and I heard a few stories from them. One of the Dad's worked for the Sixers under Pat Croce. After hearing some of the stories and what I felt was enabling behavior by the 76ers for AI I quickly got rid of my AI stuff. I liked the guy because of his play similar to MJ but after the stories just couldn't root for the guy. 

 
Two things LeBron HAS done that Jordan never accomplished...

Made it to 7 straight NBA Finals.(Soon to be 8 straight)

Never got suspended for gambling.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Major said:
Really falling for this Harden CP3 Capella trio.  Love the kid.  Hate the day when Houston has to pay him fair market value.  
Click to expand...
I can't root for Hou simple because of CP3 and Harden. I think CP3 is one of the biggest complainers ever and Harden is such a prima donna. It's a shame because I really like Capella. Been rooting for the kid since he was drafted. 

 
Wu-banger said:
Brown has to realize hes not on the bench with Duncan , Parker, and Manu ..... these are young players  and vets who are limited as specialist. who need help IN Games.... can't play through 20 point runs and have to make sure the team in crunch time is fully aware in the situation . He has to put them in the best situation to win and dumb down / simplify things for them.  It's crazy that a team with Simmons and Embiid is so unathletic...  The athletes Boston has are exposing the rest of the Sixers making them look slow. .... and outside of Simmons the Sixers do not have anyone that can dribble the basketball and take it to the hole strong , Fultz fits this bill but is buried on the bench for no good reason outside a bad 4 min stretch vs Miami.

These issues have been apparent all season long , but get exposed in the Playoffs 
Click to expand...
Fultz is a really weird situation. I was not high on him at all before the draft and thought the other PG's in this draft were a lot better. I also see the guy more as a combo 2 guard and not a PG. Its rare you see an East coast prospect head west but after the NCAA situation we saw he was one of the guys who took money. His team in Washington was better without him this year. I thought it was strange for a kid with a nice stroke to go through pre draft and post draft workouts changing that shot up. Then the injury? Something here just doesn't pass the smell test plus given the Sixers medical teams track record I'd be a little hesitant to take their word on anything. I think one thing the kid needs is a sports psychologist and see if maybe that helps. Theres a ton of great athletes who have gone this route. Maybe it's a mental thing with him. All I can think about now is after watching this series I wonder how many people in the Sixers FO and fan wise want to redo the draft and take Taytum now? I'm by no means a Sixers fan but I thought he was a way better fit for them. This could be a trade that haunts the Sixers for yrs especially if they don't win a title

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yeah it's weird how people think a team has a good chance of winning some basketball games just because they've been winning a lot of basketball games ;)

Also I'm not sure Boston has better shooters. The teams were only separated by .008% in the regular season and that was with Kyrie Irving playing most of the season and Belinelli coming over late.

In retrospect I think people lost sight of Simmons still being a rookie and prone to rookie mistakes, and the possibility that Embiid would be limited because of the injury, whether because of the mask or conditioning or both. At least that's where I think I went wrong.
Click to expand...
Philadelphia had better quantified shot probability in games one and two (I don't know game three offhand).  It could be some nerves, long rest for game one, variance, playing against Stevens or a combination of all of the above.  But sometimes better teams don't make shots they normally would over a few game sample.

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yeah it's weird how people think a team has a good chance of winning some basketball games just because they've been winning a lot of basketball games ;)

Also I'm not sure Boston has better shooters. The teams were only separated by .008% in the regular season and that was with Kyrie Irving playing most of the season and Belinelli coming over late.

In retrospect I think people lost sight of Simmons still being a rookie and prone to rookie mistakes, and the possibility that Embiid would be limited because of the injury, whether because of the mask or conditioning or both. At least that's where I think I went wrong.
Click to expand...
I'm talking more so record wise. I remember someone on my old board who Is a big Sixers fan early in the year saying how the Sixers toughest part of the schedule was early in the year and before the All star break the rest was easy. With Embiid out I figured they'd win more then half the games considering how easy it was. Look how much the team struggled though when Embiid was out when they faced better Comp earlier in the year though? Flip the schedule and I think we could've been talking about possible the Sixers limping their way into the post season. Thats where I think people got caught up in win streak. The Sixers had eliminated some issues they had earlier in the year in that win streak but many of those problems were still there. A better team like Boston was able to exploit them thanks to more athletic players and a better coach. I definitely agree Brown needs to be better. I don't think he should be blamed for all their losses though. He's one of the main reasons as well they were so good this year. The Sixers roster construction just isn't great right now. Outside of Ben theres no one who can drive t the basket. Also I was talking Boston better shooting team then the Miami Heat. Heat are an avg offensive team. Mid pack in most categories. Mia could've had another win or two in that series but the one game they were terrible at the Free Throw line and another if they had made some 3 could've pulled another one out. I figured a better offensive team would exploit those things. The Sixers still have a good team though. 

Boston is playing Ben exactly how I've been screaming for teams to play him all year. Clog the lanes and either force him to shoot or hand the ball off. Take your chances with him driving to the lane and foul him if you need too (His Season FT% was worse then DeAndre Jordan's got better in playoffs however) take your chances at the line. For the stretch of the playoffs it's taken and made the Sixers to use Circus shot 3 to get some offense. Can't rely on that for a whole playoffs especially when your shooters aren't consistent enough to do that. I love EMbiid and I found it funny how many Sixers fans thought it was dumb to draft him despite having Noel already. At that time the Sixers just needed to draft BPA and get talent on the roster. However EMbiid needs to get better conditioning. I'd also like to see him spend less time trying to be a fan pleasure on social media. His spouts with Whiteside and others show immaturity. it's all fun a games right now but he and the team have yet with his Social media antics gone through controversy with expectations yet and his social media use and antics will be one of the things people gun for first to blame. I believe Brown has already talked to him this season on toning that down too. 

 
TobiasFunke said:
Yeah it's weird how people think a team has a good chance of winning some basketball games just because they've been winning a lot of basketball games ;)

Also I'm not sure Boston has better shooters. The teams were only separated by .008% in the regular season and that was with Kyrie Irving playing most of the season and Belinelli coming over late.

In retrospect I think people lost sight of Simmons still being a rookie and prone to rookie mistakes, and the possibility that Embiid would be limited because of the injury, whether because of the mask or conditioning or both. At least that's where I think I went wrong.
Click to expand...
Boston has defended Simmons better than anyone this year and they're more than happy to let him try to attack Horford in the paint.  

The other part of it is that Embiid's pretty clearly gassed as he plays more minutes.  I'd also note that one of Covington (games 1 and 3) or Simmons (game 2) have been an absolute dumpster fire (and that's an insult to dumpster fires).  It's tough to win games when one of your starters is laying turds like those on the court. 

 
tjnc09 said:
Philadelphia had better quantified shot probability in games one and two (I don't know game three offhand).  It could be some nerves, long rest for game one, variance, playing against Stevens or a combination of all of the above.  But sometimes better teams don't make shots they normally would over a few game sample.
Click to expand...
their "open shots" % is much lower then it has been all season. had to look it up, but an open shot is defined by no defender with-in 4 feet. Boston is shooting above their average, in particular with guys like Smart, Morris and Baynes. it is just a strange series...

 
JuniorGong said:
DJackson referencing his old board every post reminds me of the band camp girl in American Pie for some reason
Click to expand...
I love that he has been right about everything that has already happened. 

Fultz not that good. Check 

Boston beating the 76ers. Check. 

How to defend Ben Simmons. Check

 
Bobcat10 said:
Never knew Lebron using PEDs was a POPULAR theory.  Maybe in Boston?  
Click to expand...
Are we ignoring Biogenesis?

I don't really care what athletes do their body since they are paid to be physical freaks, but it doesn't seem likely whatever he has been doing is natural.

 
The thing I don't understand about the Sixers offense...why don't they run more (almost any?) pick n' roll?  The roster is full of players that could set picks and also hit the outside shot.  Watching Redick & Belineli run floppy 50 times doesn't make a whole lot of sense against Boston.  Neither does going to a winded Embiid in the post against Horford & Baynes over and over.

All that said, the #1 thing the Sixers are leaving on the table is transition opportunities.  Simmons needs to be flying up the court every single time Philly gets the ball (including after makes).  I'd also like to see Fultz playing the point every minute that Simmons is off the court.  He's not a winning player right now but he needs to get that valuable playing time in these situations, even if it's limited.  If Brett Brown is going to take out McConnell for Simmons (which I agreed with) he also should be playing Fultz some.

 
JuniorNB said:
People fall on both sides of this argument. It really doesn't matter to me. What can't be disputed is that they are easily the best two players the game has ever seen. 
Click to expand...
I'm just sick of the comparisons The clutch 5 GW shots the media is using is for shots 5 secs or less. Theres at least a few games I know of including the Jazz "The Shot game" where MJ's game winner was over 5 secs. To use that kind of stat just shows how desperate the league is. The NBA and media want people to like James but he does stuff himself that force people and fans like myself not to like him. If Lebron leaves Cleveland and joins the Sixers or Lakers and wins another title this offseason I think it destroys and overshadows his accomplishments as a player. He'll be forever known as the best player from his era who was a hired Mercenary with no team loyalty. Like I said earlier Lebron leaving the first time would've been like MJ after not being able to beat DeT and running to Boston to play with Bird and create a super team and on top of that all the theatrics that went with it. MJ fought with Phil sure but they always respected each other. Even before the Riley report on Lebron a few weeks ago I always suspected Lebron never respected Spoelstra but Riley wasn't gonna cave to Lebron. I thought it was embarrassing how he disrespected and treated David Blatt. Dude was shafted because Cleveland didn't have people who's balls dropped yet. I thought the whole display there by James to Blatt was incredible childish and disrespectful. Blatt always showed them respect only to be crapped on by the players. If Blatt was Chip Kelly I'd have no problem with what Lebron and the players did but there was never any stories like that. Blatt is a good guy and coach and the way he was treated I really lost respect for James. James to me seems like if its not his way he'll take his ball and go home or in his case threaten to leave for another team. 

BTW I respect Lebron off the court for his charity contributions and stuff like that. It's the player I have such a hard time rooting for. I think it's stupid to compare players anyway in sports when they are completely different Eras. I have the opinion that I know others share that if todays players had to play under the rules of 80s and 90s a lot including many Euro guys may not have been successful. Play in todays rules guys like the Defensive bigs probably wouldn't be as good but Bird, Miller would be draining 3s like Curry and MJ could easily dominate the stat sheet as much as Westbrook or Lebron could. Also when comparing teammates with James and MJ I think there's separation of opinion. Some like myself feel newer crowd overrates Pippen were I think some like myself underrate him but also think he was a contributor. Pippen was the original Point Forward long before Lebron. So I think it's dumb for people to act like when they first saw James or say things we've never seen a player like this before that's wrong. For his career Pippen avg almost 6 RPG, 6 APG avg out today probably would be similar to Lebron. I'm by no means saying Pippen is as talented as Lebron though just that skillset wise with his size Pippen was the original PF long before Lebron. Lebron is way better offensively. Scottie Pippen was good but he's no way close to as good as the Lebron fans make him. Jordan never had Pippen avg over 20 a season with him besides one year. The other two MJ Didn't play do to retirement and injury. Wade was still a prime player when James joined him. Dennis Rodman is an all time defensive monster especially on the boards but Rodman was entering the end of his career. Rodman was around to protect MJ from any funny business but it's not to say MJ couldn't handle it on his own either. To say Lebron didn't have shooters and MJ did is also false. Lebron had Ray Allen one of the best 3PT Shooters of all time win a title in Mia and then Kyrie win one for the Cavaliers. We'll always have these debates. My issue is the people who think one guy or the other is way better then the other especially by those who say James is ad wasn't even born or were 3 when MJ final retired. So how can you say Lebron was better. Honestly despite my MJ Fandom I still say Wilt is the best. Dude changed the way more ways then many after never did. Rules were changed do to him.  

 
DJackson10 said:
I'm just sick of the comparisons The clutch 5 GW shots the media is using is for shots 5 secs or less. Theres at least a few games I know of including the Jazz "The Shot game" where MJ's game winner was over 5 secs. To use that kind of stat just shows how desperate the league is. The NBA and media want people to like James but he does stuff himself that force people and fans like myself not to like him. If Lebron leaves Cleveland and joins the Sixers or Lakers and wins another title this offseason I think it destroys and overshadows his accomplishments as a player. He'll be forever known as the best player from his era who was a hired Mercenary with no team loyalty. Like I said earlier Lebron leaving the first time would've been like MJ after not being able to beat DeT and running to Boston to play with Bird and create a super team and on top of that all the theatrics that went with it. MJ fought with Phil sure but they always respected each other. Even before the Riley report on Lebron a few weeks ago I always suspected Lebron never respected Spoelstra but Riley wasn't gonna cave to Lebron. I thought it was embarrassing how he disrespected and treated David Blatt. Dude was shafted because Cleveland didn't have people who's balls dropped yet. I thought the whole display there by James to Blatt was incredible childish and disrespectful. Blatt always showed them respect only to be crapped on by the players. If Blatt was Chip Kelly I'd have no problem with what Lebron and the players did but there was never any stories like that. Blatt is a good guy and coach and the way he was treated I really lost respect for James. James to me seems like if its not his way he'll take his ball and go home or in his case threaten to leave for another team. 

BTW I respect Lebron off the court for his charity contributions and stuff like that. It's the player I have such a hard time rooting for. I think it's stupid to compare players anyway in sports when they are completely different Eras. I have the opinion that I know others share that if todays players had to play under the rules of 80s and 90s a lot including many Euro guys may not have been successful. Play in todays rules guys like the Defensive bigs probably wouldn't be as good but Bird, Miller would be draining 3s like Curry and MJ could easily dominate the stat sheet as much as Westbrook or Lebron could. Also when comparing teammates with James and MJ I think there's separation of opinion. Some like myself feel newer crowd overrates Pippen were I think some like myself underrate him but also think he was a contributor. Pippen was the original Point Forward long before Lebron. So I think it's dumb for people to act like when they first saw James or say things we've never seen a player like this before that's wrong. For his career Pippen avg almost 6 RPG, 6 APG avg out today probably would be similar to Lebron. I'm by no means saying Pippen is as talented as Lebron though just that skillset wise with his size Pippen was the original PF long before Lebron. Lebron is way better offensively. Scottie Pippen was good but he's no way close to as good as the Lebron fans make him. Jordan never had Pippen avg over 20 a season with him besides one year. The other two MJ Didn't play do to retirement and injury. Wade was still a prime player when James joined him. Dennis Rodman is an all time defensive monster especially on the boards but Rodman was entering the end of his career. Rodman was around to protect MJ from any funny business but it's not to say MJ couldn't handle it on his own either. To say Lebron didn't have shooters and MJ did is also false. Lebron had Ray Allen one of the best 3PT Shooters of all time win a title in Mia and then Kyrie win one for the Cavaliers. We'll always have these debates. My issue is the people who think one guy or the other is way better then the other especially by those who say James is ad wasn't even born or were 3 when MJ final retired. So how can you say Lebron was better. Honestly despite my MJ Fandom I still say Wilt is the best. Dude changed the way more ways then many after never did. Rules were changed do to him.  
Click to expand...
It's like arguing if the Stones were better than the Beatles. It's silly even discussing it. They are both awesome. And for every 10 reasons someone can tell you why Jordan is better, someone else can give 10 reasons that LeBron is. I used to argue that no one will ever equal Jordan, but Lebron has been the best player in the game for so long and still hasn't faded even a little. I now have them as 1a and 1b. They are the two best ever, which is no longer disputable. 

 
encaitar said:
Two things LeBron HAS done that Jordan never accomplished...

Made it to 7 straight NBA Finals.(Soon to be 8 straight)

Never got suspended for gambling.
Click to expand...
Weaker Conference then it was now. Superteams will always get to the finals. I said after the First GS/Cle final we'll see at least 3 more. Lebron never challenged himself and went to the west. Harder time making the finals. Also Lebron is 3 and 4 in those finals

Can't be proven as fact only a myth by people who are into conspiracy theories. Do you have actual proven facts of it? MJ's father was murdered a few months before that and many believe MJ didn't feel like there was competition for him and wanted to try something new. 

 
Last edited by a moderator:
DJackson10 said:
If Lebron leaves Cleveland and joins the Sixers or Lakers and wins another title this offseason I think it destroys and overshadows his accomplishments as a player. 
Click to expand...
I'll stay away from the endless MJ/LeBron arguments, but winning titles never hurts a player's legacy.

That same line was thrown out there against Durant when he left OKC.  One title (and a Finals MVP) later in Golden State and that line of thinking has been obliterated.  Same with LeBron winning two in Miami, Garnett in Boston, and many other examples.

 
DJackson10 said:
Weaker Conference then it was now. Superteams will always get to the finals. I said after the First GS/Cle final we'll see at least 3 more. Lebron never challenged himself and went to the west. Harder time making the finals. 

Can't be proven as fact only a myth by people who are into conspiracy theories. Do you have actual proven facts of it? MJ's father was murdered a few months before that and many believe MJ didn't feel like there was competition for him and wanted to try something new. 
Click to expand...
It was a joke.  Lighten up.  

I could go on and list all the accomplishments that LeBron has that Jordan never did, but it's useless.  They are both the best players of their eras by a large margin.  I'd call them 1a and 1b in my rankings on the all time list of non centers.  

Still, you literally just had a post trying to downplay Jordan's teammates?  Scotty Pippen wasn't as good as LeBron's teammates?  Really?  The same Pippen that went for 23, 8 and 6 and took the Bulls to a 55-27 record without Jordan and was a few ball calls/unlucky bounces from taking them to the NBA finals without Jordan?  That team wasn't as good or better than the ones LeBron has played on?  

Excuse me for a moment.........       :lmao: :lmao:

 
trader jake said:
The thing I don't understand about the Sixers offense...why don't they run more (almost any?) pick n' roll?  The roster is full of players that could set picks and also hit the outside shot.  Watching Redick & Belineli run floppy 50 times doesn't make a whole lot of sense against Boston.  Neither does going to a winded Embiid in the post against Horford & Baynes over and over.

All that said, the #1 thing the Sixers are leaving on the table is transition opportunities.  Simmons needs to be flying up the court every single time Philly gets the ball (including after makes).  I'd also like to see Fultz playing the point every minute that Simmons is off the court.  He's not a winning player right now but he needs to get that valuable playing time in these situations, even if it's limited.  If Brett Brown is going to take out McConnell for Simmons (which I agreed with) he also should be playing Fultz some.
Click to expand...
I think a lot would like to see Fultz get some minutes, but he looked lost in the Heat series. and yeah the transition game was a reason for their success in the regular season. It seems that Boston is preparing for the transition though by foregoing rebounds and prevent the transition or start their own earlier

 
tjnc09 said:
Are we ignoring Biogenesis?

I don't really care what athletes do their body since they are paid to be physical freaks, but it doesn't seem likely whatever he has been doing is natural.
Click to expand...
Many things are ignored here on a daily basis, so that's a good question.  I don't recall much about that besides Lebron and a bunch of other big/small name athletes being named by a whistle blower.  Then MLB and Braun (and whoever else got suspended there?) took the fall for all athletes?  Maybe I have the ending of the story wrong, no idea.

Does unnatural = illegal?  

 
Last edited by a moderator:
I don't know what types of PEDs would really help NBA players more though?  Straight up steroids would almost be a negative IMO.  HGH maybe in a recovery sense?  It wouldn't shock me in the least to hear that EPO is the PED of choice for NBA athletes given their demanding schedule and need for extra stamina.

 
msudaisy26 said:
I love that he has been right about everything that has already happened. 

Fultz not that good. Check 

Boston beating the 76ers. Check. 

How to defend Ben Simmons. Check
Click to expand...
You can ask many people who know me I've always been on the I think Simmons is overrated Bandwagon. The dude can't shoot and his best bet is driving the lanes but he seems nervous too because he doesn't want to get fouled. Back in college against better competition (Take his last college came against UK) and he was bullied by their bigs. People dared him to shoot. He also tried way more to be a crowd pleasure with globetrotter like plays. Many times he passed up shots unless he knew a guy would make the shot for an assistant. His Defensive numbers looked good in. college because he had more volume (AKA Chances) as teams were not afraid to go after him offensively. I'm not saying Simmons will be a bust at all. From a Sixers Roster perspective at the time I thought Brandon Ingram given their lack of shooters and offense was a better fit. With Simmons I thought Jayson Taytum or Jackson would be better fits then Fultz especially if Simmons was gonna play the Point this year. People I just think get carried away with stats plus the Simmons Ingram draft was a cluster outside of those two players so the media had to overhype both players to keep people interested. Remember sports drafts today are all about ratings no different then TV shows. 

 
trader jake said:
I'll stay away from the endless MJ/LeBron arguments, but winning titles never hurts a player's legacy.

That same line was thrown out there against Durant when he left OKC.  One title (and a Finals MVP) later in Golden State and that line of thinking has been obliterated.  Same with LeBron winning two in Miami, Garnett in Boston, and many other examples.
Click to expand...
I don't fault KD for leaving. You can fault him for joining GS sure but leaving no. Why? Because Russel Westbrook only cares about one thing and that's padding his stats. Avg a T-D two seasons? All fine and good but it was nothing more then stat padding and where was Russ during the finals the last 2 yrs? Oh yeah golfing. OKC babies him. He's a ball hog and when KD was there and on Fire Russ always started jacking up shots with a wide open KD. You could tell that KD was frustrated and not having fun playing there. Why stay? KD Could've gone to any other team but GS and I think People would have defended him. I think joining GS was a bad PR move. However KD didn't throw in all the theatrics that Lebron did with his Decision to join Mia and the introduction as well Mia threw with Lebron. One that Pat Riley said recently had he known how far that was going would've pulled the plug on it and done differently. Winning never hurts sure but look at all the people who go after Peyton Manning lack of playoff success? However some of these same people feel insulted if you bring up James lack of success and losing record in the finals. Including 3 teams celebrating titles on Lebron's home court. Titles don't hurt no but sometimes how you get there will hurt. I'm not one who likes if my team "bought" a title. I was highly satisfied with how the Eagles won their SB this year. Probably felt way better then had we won with what Vince Young described as the Dream Team that was full of nothing but guys more worried about their next paycheck then winning.  

 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Similar threads

rockaction
  • Locked
Argumentum Ad Personam
Replies
26
Views
979
rockaction
rockaction
GregR
Greg's Useless Trivia #50 - 100 questions (75 greatest hits, 25 new)
Replies
19
Views
3K
GregR
GregR
BobbyLayne
The 25 Greatest Films of the 21st Century So Far
2 3 4
Replies
155
Views
13K
El Floppo
El Floppo

Users who are viewing this thread

Total: 1 (members: 0, guests: 1)
Back
Top