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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (6 Viewers)

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Did they go to the review booth because they really thought he was on the restricted line????? good grief he was 4 feet away. I guess the NBA will soon be slo-mo'ing every charge/block call. I'll stick to college hoops.
This was the real officiating error.  He wasn't even close to the restricted area.  There's reasonable arguments both ways on block/charge. There's no reasonable defense for the official not paying close enough attention to be 100% certain of the call on the floor.

 
Lost in all this:   While JR did a great job to get the offensive rebound on Hill's missed FT......what the hell was Durant doing?!   He didn't box out on that play - he played soft all game, particularly on that FT.  Dude, 4.7 seconds left.  You need to box out and get the damn ball.

That was pathetic.

 
Lost in all this:   While JR did a great job to get the offensive rebound on Hill's missed FT......what the hell was Durant doing?!   He didn't box out on that play - he played soft all game, particularly on that FT.  Dude, 4.7 seconds left.  You need to box out and get the damn ball.

That was pathetic.
Also lost in this- I really don't think it would have mattered, other than transferring the heat from JR to George Hill.  4.7 minus however long it took him to secure the board is not a lot of time, and JR isn't exactly a skilled, creative finisher in the paint, plus he had an athletic 7 footer with a 12 foot wingspan in between him and the basket. If he knew the exact situation and made the right play he either gets an immediate TO or kicks it out to the first person he sees on the perimeter who can get a semi-decent look.  Maybe a 25% chance they hit IMO.

 
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JR  :lmao:

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JR Smith: "I was trying to get enough to bring it out to get a shot off. I knew we were tied, I thought we were going to call timeout. If I thought we were ahead, I'd have held onto the ball and let them foul me."
God: "Then why didn't you call timeout, JR?"

 
Also lost in this- I really don't think it would have mattered, other than transferring the heat from JR to George Hill.  4.7 minus however long it took him to secure the board is not a lot of time, and JR isn't exactly a skilled, creative finisher in the paint, plus he had an athletic 7 footer with a 12 foot wingspan in between him and the basket. If he knew the exact situation and made the right play he either gets an immediate TO or kicks it out to the first person he sees on the perimeter who can get a semi-decent look.  Maybe a 25% chance they hit IMO.
So with less than 5 seconds remaining, the Cavs had ~75% chance to take a 1 point lead, and an additional 25% chance to take a 2 point lead.  But they came away with nothing.

The rest of this Cavs squad is so awful.

 
Heard Legler on the radio this morning. He perfectly pointed out why the rule is so stupid.

Play happens. Multiple officials make opposing judgment calls. They huddle and decide it is a charge. Then they go to the review and make another judgment call to reverse it to a blocking call.

But in Legler’s words, you could show the replay to 100 refs and a substantial number of them would call it a charge. He said it would be 60/40. 

That there would not be consensus after seeing the replay is proven by the fact that Jaffe said on the broadcast he would call it a charge based on the replay.

So if there is not consensus after seeing the replay, there is no point in going to the replay. Just stick with the call on the floor, which was made after the officials properly huddled to resolve the initial disparity in the two calls. 

 
So with less than 5 seconds remaining, the Cavs had ~75% chance to take a 1 point lead, and an additional 25% chance to take a 2 point lead.  But they came away with nothing.

The rest of this Cavs squad is so awful.
Sounds about right. 

Of course if they'd taken the 1 point lead I'd say there was pretty good chance the Warriors would have snatched it right back and won in regulation. They would have been able to advance the ball with the full 4.7 seconds on the clock because of the made FT, and for obvious reasons they are more dangerous in an ATO, time-limited situation than the Cavs. Maybe 30-40% shot at winning in regulation there?

 
slept on it still think labrohan got let down also think that gs would have won if he made the free throw cripes curry probably just buries one from the opposite free throw line flat footed and then cle does not score when it gets the ball back take that to the bank brohans 

 
Sounds about right. 

Of course if they'd taken the 1 point lead I'd say there was pretty good chance the Warriors would have snatched it right back and won in regulation. They would have been able to advance the ball with the full 4.7 seconds on the clock because of the made FT, and for obvious reasons they are more dangerous in an ATO, time-limited situation than the Cavs. Maybe 30-40% shot at winning in regulation there?
Nah.  They would have given it to Durant, who would have let JR rip the ball right out of his hands, rather than getting off a shot. 

 
Buried under JR's stupidity is the fact that he actually made a good play getting the rebound and keeping the Warriors from a chance at a final shot.

 
No one is 100% from the line. Missing both free throws could be an opportunity to give grief, missing one happens. 

What JR did is in another stratosphere 
With the game on the line and Hill an 85% FT shooter in the playoffs I think your trivializing his choke at the line.

Hill had the opportunity to win the game with nobody in his face guarding him and failed.

 
Heard Legler on the radio this morning. He perfectly pointed out why the rule is so stupid.

Play happens. Multiple officials make opposing judgment calls. They huddle and decide it is a charge. Then they go to the review and make another judgment call to reverse it to a blocking call.

But in Legler’s words, you could show the replay to 100 refs and a substantial number of them would call it a charge. He said it would be 60/40. 

That there would not be consensus after seeing the replay is proven by the fact that Jaffe said on the broadcast he would call it a charge based on the replay.

So if there is not consensus after seeing the replay, there is no point in going to the replay. Just stick with the call on the floor, which was made after the officials properly huddled to resolve the initial disparity in the two calls. 
You are just going to die on this hill aren't you? It doesn't matter what 100 m refs think especially when they would probably be split. It matters what those 2 officials thought. In real time they called it a charge and block and then went charge after a word with each other. I think it is safe to assume the charge ref convinced the other ref his view was better. After they looked at the replay they obviously said oops your view was better or I didn't see that from this angle and changed the call. 

Everyone is going to see it different and in slow motion they saw a block, be mad about the rule. The call was fine either way. 

 
With the game on the line and Hill an 85% FT shooter in the playoffs I think your trivializing his choke at the line.

Hill had the opportunity to win the game with nobody in his face guarding him and failed.
Hill is shooting 78.6% from the line this season (80% career). That means he's gonna make both free throws only 61.7% of the time in normal circumstances. Like @wilked said, one out of two was a reasonably likely outcome.

 
I only watched the second half of the game and James always scores but the Cavs offense is so painfully boring to watch.  James gets the ball at the top of the key and just stands there and dribbles back and forth for 12-15 seconds before deciding to jack a 3, make a move toward the basket and shoot or fire a cross court pass.  The other 4 Cavs, 2 in the corners and 2 on the wings are just standing there with zero movement.

 
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Hill is shooting 78.6% from the line this season (80% career). That means he's gonna make both free throws only 61.7% of the time in normal circumstances. Like @wilked said, one out of two was a reasonably likely outcome.
I agree with that, but I also agree he choked. He looked scared and that free throw was 3 inches short from being an air ball. 

 
I only watched the second half of the game and James always scores but the Cavs offense is so painfully boring to watch.  James gets the ball at the top of the key and just stands there and dribbles back and forth for 12-15 seconds before deciding to jack a 3, make a move toward the basket and shoot or fire a cross court path.  The other 4 Cavs, 2 in the corners and 2 on the wings are just standing there with zero movement.
I only watched the second half of the opera and Mozart always writes decent tunes but the rest of the opera is so painfully boring to watch.

 
I agree with that, but I also agree he choked. He looked scared and that free throw was 3 inches short from being an air ball. 
Yeah I kinda thought that too, but OTOH I think there was more pressure on the first FT when the possibility of him losing the game at the line was still on the table. 

 
Celebrating and showing emotion are one thing.  Mocking the other team and acting like a jackass are another.  Any guy on the other team that did that to my team was getting laid out soon thereafter, but then again, I'm a 40 year old white dude.
OK Internet Tough Guy.
:shrug:  It is actually something I did on more than one occasion in my college playing days.  It was part of my role on the team.

Not that you are wrong about my iToughness though.

 
The call changing charge to a block was horrific on a number of levels, but i will just start with this.

If that charge/block is going to be reviewed to see if he was in the restricted area, then every shot anywhere near any line needs to be reviewed.  The play was not remotely close to being something that needed to be reviewed.

On a side note JR is an idiot but any of the players or coach coulda called time out.   He is getting killed for that WAY more than he should.

 
If anything the play JR made at the end of the first half was worse.  Zero reward all risk trying to steal that pass.  So dumb.  He does SOOOOO many dumb things.

 
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On a side note JR is an idiot but any of the players or coach coulda called time out.   He is getting killed for that WAY more than he should.
To be fair, I think there was a bit of a Band of Brothers lieutenant Speirs running through Foye situation going on

"At first...the Germans didn't even shoot at him. I think they couldn't believe what they were seeing..."

 
The call changing charge to a block was horrific on a number of levels, but i will just start with this.

If that charge/block is going to be reviewed to see if he was in the restricted area, then every shot anywhere near any line needs to be reviewed.  The play was not remotely close to being something that needed to be reviewed.

On a side note JR is an idiot but any of the players or coach coulda called time out.   He is getting killed for that WAY more than he should.
Agree with all of this, except that if two refs disagree on the call on the floor, and it is a reviewable play, they should review.

This should not be a revieable play though.

I'm also probably just used to the NFL system, but if they discuss and determine the call on the floor, there was nothing in the replay suggesting a charge call should be overturned to a block.

 
Agree with all of this, except that if two refs disagree on the call on the floor, and it is a reviewable play, they should review.

This should not be a revieable play though.

I'm also probably just used to the NFL system, but if they discuss and determine the call on the floor, there was nothing in the replay suggesting a charge call should be overturned to a block.
I think this is the problem here.  In the NFL's review handbook, there has to be indisputable evidence that the call was wrong.  There was no way there was indisputable evidence on that call, as we can see with everyone having a different opinion even after watching it in slow-mo.  In the NFL, even if they review that play they stay with the call on the field.

NBA could be different though.  I don't know what their standards are for reviews, but if they aren't held to the same "indisputable" standard, then I can see why they changed it.  

It's still a terrible look for the NBA though.  This is their one opportunity to bring in new fans every year.  The Finals will be watched by casual and non-NBA fans and if there is ever a time to excite passion in new fans, it is now.  Then you bungle it up by having a replay on a bang/bang play that could go either way and you change the call on the floor, clearly affecting the outcome of the game?  In a game where replay showed the refs obviously missing or incorrectly calling fouls so many times that the commentators are making fun of it?  Terrible job by the refs and the NBA for having a rule that allows this situation to occur.

 
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With the game on the line and Hill an 85% FT shooter in the playoffs I think your trivializing his choke at the line.

Hill had the opportunity to win the game with nobody in his face guarding him and failed.
Its not a game-winning free throw with 4.7 seconds left. That's a perfect set up for one of the Warriors' shooters to hit a game-winner at the other end.

 
The way the Warriors act after making baskets (shimming, chest pounding) makes we want any team to beat them.   Not a CAVS fan but was rooting for them last night.   I think at this point I would root for the 1972 Russian Olympic Basketball Team over the Warriors. 

 
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