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2017-18 NBA (Playoffs): A gasping, wheezing thread begs message board poster arguing how Jordan never lost a Finals to just let it die in peace (5 Viewers)

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Also, who cares if Jordan was rusty?  He made that stupid decision himself so you should count it against him.  Don't give him a free pass for it.

 
The Cavs were a ~.625-.650 team with Lebron and a ~.350 team without him in-between.

The Bulls were a ~.700+ team with Jordan and a ~.620 team without him in-between.

Jordan had to STOP trying to carry a team to the finals before he eventually got there, because he couldn't do it.  Lebron has carried multiple teams by himself.
I love Bron as much as anyone, but let's not pretend the East has been anywhere near as good as it was in the mid-late 80s.  

 
It's really hard to imagine the Cavs actually pulling this out, but last night certainly had to be encouraging for Cavs fans.
Exact opposite feeling for me.  As a Cavs fan, to me, last night sealed it for the Warriors.  The Cavs played very well, Bron played great, we had the most controversial call reversal that directly led to a complete turn of events on the scoreboard, STILL had a chance at the end but couldnt do it.

Then overtime happened.  To me, the rest of this series will look closer to how overtime looked that than the 48 minutes before it.

They HAD to have that game.  The way it ended was the exact opposite of what was needed.  

 
But 2 refs on the court did disagree AND by an NBA rule that has been in place for 5 YEARS!!! (Latest Lowe Post Podcast)....it is a reviewable play.
See, this is why nobody knows the rule.  You're being too vague like so many others.

Are you saying the block/charge alone is reviewable in the final 2 mintues? 

Or, the restricted area question is reviewable in the final 2 minutes (and then once they get to the table to review the restricted area, they can change the block/charge call)?  

 
Vegas seems to agree that last night was horrid for the Cavs.  Series price jumped to +10000 for the Cavs after a game where they were 13 point dogs.  and like +800 to win.  That's a big jump up from +650 after a heavily expected loss.

 
They shot 56% when you take out KD's 8/22 and had only 7 turnovers. That's actually quite worrisome if you're the Warriors... they played well (outside of KD IMO) and almost lost.
They played well, but did they try?  For example, 10% effort like what was mentioned in here last night.

I'll say the Cavs were at 100+% effort.  They played really good early, fought back every time in the 2nd half when it looked like it was going to turn into a runaway with a classic Warriors 20-2 run, but still fell short in the end.

 
See, this is why nobody knows the rule.  You're being too vague like so many others.

Are you saying the block/charge alone is reviewable in the final 2 mintues? 

Or, the restricted area question is reviewable in the final 2 minutes (and then once they get to the table to review the restricted area, they can change the block/charge call)?  
The foul is absolutely NOT reviewable......................unless they were to review whether or not he was in the restricted area.  That's why that reversal was so atrociously stupid.  It never should have been reviewed, however even with the review it should not have been reversed.  

 
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Exact opposite feeling for me.  As a Cavs fan, to me, last night sealed it for the Warriors.  The Cavs played very well, Bron played great, we had the most controversial call reversal that directly led to a complete turn of events on the scoreboard, STILL had a chance at the end but couldnt do it.

Then overtime happened.  To me, the rest of this series will look closer to how overtime looked that than the 48 minutes before it.

They HAD to have that game.  The way it ended was the exact opposite of what was needed.  
Agree on this. Soul crushing loss will affect the others a lot. 

 
So I think we have all the open questions answered.

Love will be able to suit up and play game 2.  As will the Warriors scrubs who were on the court that nobody mentions.

The L2MR came out with three points.

Green committed a foul on Lebron with 12 seconds on the clock that should have been called.

Green committed a lane violation on Hill's missed free throw that should have been called.

They backed the refs on the review (we all knew 100% this would happen).

"The crew was not reasonably certain whether James was in the restricted area after an offensive foul was called against Durant," the report said. "Upon replay review, it was confirmed that James was outside the restricted area. The referees also reviewed whether James was in a legal guarding position, which is an additional reviewable matter for this replay trigger. Replay showed James was not in a legal guarding position because he was turning his body and moving into Durant when contact occurred. Thus the initial call on the floor was overturned and James was assessed a blocking foul."
It's pretty embarrassing that two refs called a foul on the play yet neither could be reasonably certain that Lebron was not in the restricted area when it wasn't even close.  There also should not be another review triggered by an initial review.  Especially a judgement foul that's required to be called in real-time 98% of the time or whatever.  It's likely the dumbest rule in sport.  

NBA fans with or without strong rooting interest can continue to debate all they want whether the refs used the restricted review option just to get the charge/block called the way they wanted using slo-mo replay.  I think this was absolutely the case.  I'm reasonably certain they're full of ####, just like JR's excuse.  These refs are here in the Finals because they are deemed the BEST.  I'm not excepting excuses here.

 
The foul is absolutely NOT reviewable......................unless they were to review whether or not he was in the restricted area.  That's why that reversal was so atrociously stupid.  It never should have been reviewed, however even with the review it should not have been reversed.  
Oh, I know, I know.  So many people are being fed bad info.

 
There's a 76ers fan in the seats behind home plate at AT&T Park for the Giants-Phillies game tonight.  He started off wearing a t-shirt with FIRE BC and then changed to one that says WHERE IS ERIC JR?.  It's still the bottom of the 2nd.

 
Vegas seems to agree that last night was horrid for the Cavs.  Series price jumped to +10000 for the Cavs after a game where they were 13 point dogs.  and like +800 to win.  That's a big jump up from +650 after a heavily expected loss.
Um, you have an extra 0

 
now that the silly game is out of the way, we can get back to the good stuff. Seems the Colangelo stuff can begin to wrap up for the team tomorrow. Meanwhile, one of the shill reporters in Philly wrote this:

"Sixers special advisor Jerry Colangelo could be fighting for his son’s job. After all, Jerry Colangelo, who is widely respected around the league, may think the Sixers owe him because he stepped in to right the tanking ship when they hired him during 2015-16 season."

this mother F'er righted the ship? What the trades for Ilyasova and Baylis have saved the franchise? he is a medical Guru and has healed the injuries? man, i will be happy to be rid of this family, F these guys

 
now that the silly game is out of the way, we can get back to the good stuff. Seems the Colangelo stuff can begin to wrap up for the team tomorrow. Meanwhile, one of the shill reporters in Philly wrote this:

"Sixers special advisor Jerry Colangelo could be fighting for his son’s job. After all, Jerry Colangelo, who is widely respected around the league, may think the Sixers owe him because he stepped in to right the tanking ship when they hired him during 2015-16 season."

this mother F'er righted the ship? What the trades for Ilyasova and Baylis have saved the franchise? he is a medical Guru and has healed the injuries? man, i will be happy to be rid of this family, F these guys
Woj says Colangelo is making the case to the team that he didn’t know about his wife’s tweets.

 
Exact opposite feeling for me.  As a Cavs fan, to me, last night sealed it for the Warriors.  The Cavs played very well, Bron played great, we had the most controversial call reversal that directly led to a complete turn of events on the scoreboard, STILL had a chance at the end but couldnt do it.

Then overtime happened.  To me, the rest of this series will look closer to how overtime looked that than the 48 minutes before it.

They HAD to have that game.  The way it ended was the exact opposite of what was needed.  
I don't really disagree. Before G1, I expected this to be a 4 or 5 game series, and still mostly expect that. G1 was soul-crushing, sure, and the loss hurts, but I really didn't expect to see the Cavs go toe-to-toe with them in the Oracle. With the Warriors constantly flipping the switch on and off, it's hard to get a read on them, but G1 provided some doubt that they'll be able to trounce the Cavs in the way most expect. The 2nd half for example. The entire world expected GS to thrash them in the 3rd. They outplayed them, but it wasn't the game changing charge we expected and the Cavs battled back to even in the 4th. I understand the OT worry, and maybe that will be the series norm. But it came after the most disasterous minute of basketball CLE could've imagined. No way they rebound from that for that OT. There's a much better chance they do after a couple days off.

And for Durant. Most likely, he rebounds from this. He's too good. But he hasn't been Durant in the Playoffs. And going against LeBron playing out of his mind, stranger things have happened than Durant not having a great series in this scenario.

The loss seems crushing, but at the end of the day, it was a game they weren't supposed to win and they demonstrated that they can play with the Warriors on the road when everybody but Durant is having a solid game. Maybe that doesn't hold, and surely the Warriors have a lot better options to adjust than the Cavs, but I think G1 still has to be encouraging for the Cavs. 

Or maybe it's just I expected this series to be four 20+-point GSW blowouts and one game in CLE where GSW just didn't give a ####. 

 
Woj says Colangelo is making the case to the team that he didn’t know about his wife’s tweets.
I don’t know how Colangelo can claim he didn’t know about his wife’s burner accounts yet the three accounts The Ringer didn’t disclose to the 76ers were moved to private within hours of them making an inquiry.

 
I don’t know how Colangelo can claim he didn’t know about his wife’s burner accounts yet the three accounts The Ringer didn’t disclose to the 76ers were moved to private within hours of them making an inquiry.
Exactly. Unless he recognized her writing. Or saw she was writing things he knew he told her and only she would know/say.  Either way he's gotta go. 

 
Woj says Colangelo is making the case to the team that he didn’t know about his wife’s tweets.
The only question was whether Colangelo was going to make his wife, or his son, the fall guy. 

It really shouldn't matter though. She got all of her info and perspective from him. So her thoughts on players may as well be his thoughts on players. And unless they get divorced, they're still a package deal. So no players in the league will ever trust a Colangelo-associated team simply because they will have to assume that something similar could happen again. 

If nothing else, it's a great picture of how Colangelo views his players. He's clearly going home and ripping every single player on his team and his coaches. Even if that's the extent of it, who wants a guy like that running a team?

 
I don’t know how Colangelo can claim he didn’t know about his wife’s burner accounts yet the three accounts The Ringer didn’t disclose to the 76ers were moved to private within hours of them making an inquiry.
I want him gone, but isn't it possible that he told his wife about the contact from the Ringer like "so here's a really weird thing that happened today..." and then she thought she better make them private?

 
The only question was whether Colangelo was going to make his wife, or his son, the fall guy. 

It really shouldn't matter though. She got all of her info and perspective from him. So her thoughts on players may as well be his thoughts on players. And unless they get divorced, they're still a package deal. So no players in the league will ever trust a Colangelo-associated team simply because they will have to assume that something similar could happen again. 

If nothing else, it's a great picture of how Colangelo views his players. He's clearly going home and ripping every single player on his team and his coaches. Even if that's the extent of it, who wants a guy like that running a team?
***BLANKET DISCLOSURE FOR ALL COMMENTS HENCEFORTH: I WANT COLANGELO GONE***

Marc Stein was on Dunc'd On yesterday and he said that in his experience, the GM really has no impact on where players will choose to play.  Much different than coaches.  It will just be the most money.  

(Or at least I need to believe this)

 
***BLANKET DISCLOSURE FOR ALL COMMENTS HENCEFORTH: I WANT COLANGELO GONE***

Marc Stein was on Dunc'd On yesterday and he said that in his experience, the GM really has no impact on where players will choose to play.  Much different than coaches.  It will just be the most money.  

(Or at least I need to believe this)
I think LeBron might be a special case though. It's not just about the money. It's about how much control can he have and can he win a title. Collangelo could jeopardize both of those for him. If he's gone though, the Sixers are a clean slate for LeBron to slide on in. Money, talent, his own GM (basically because the sixers would hire whoever have them the best shot at landing LeBron).

 
I think LeBron might be a special case though. It's not just about the money. It's about how much control can he have and can he win a title. Collangelo could jeopardize both of those for him. If he's gone though, the Sixers are a clean slate for LeBron to slide on in. Money, talent, his own GM (basically because the sixers would hire whoever have them the best shot at landing LeBron).
yes, that is possible.

LeBron is a special case unto himself in so many ways, that it is kind of hard to know what he will ultimately value.

Slide out Colangelo.  Slide in David Griffin + LeBron.

 
I want him gone, but isn't it possible that he told his wife about the contact from the Ringer like "so here's a really weird thing that happened today..." and then she thought she better make them private?
Possible, yes. I’d put it at about a 5% chance.

as GroveDiesel pointed out, even if it was his wife without his knowledge (a stretch IMO) the thoughts are simple a regurgitation of what Collar Popping is telling her. 

 
I think LeBron might be a special case though. It's not just about the money. It's about how much control can he have and can he win a title. Collangelo could jeopardize both of those for him. If he's gone though, the Sixers are a clean slate for LeBron to slide on in. Money, talent, his own GM (basically because the sixers would hire whoever have them the best shot at landing LeBron).
I don't really see the fit with the Sixers. I'm sure Lebron would mesh well with Embiid, but I don't see Simmons and Fultz as a good fit for him, since neither can shoot.

 
I don't really see the fit with the Sixers. I'm sure Lebron would mesh well with Embiid, but I don't see Simmons and Fultz as a good fit for him, since neither can shoot.
for sure this argument has merit, and I have made it myself, but if LeBron tells the Sixers he wants to come here, it would take some serious stones on behalf of new GM Marc Eversley to turn that down.

 
I don't really see the fit with the Sixers. I'm sure Lebron would mesh well with Embiid, but I don't see Simmons and Fultz as a good fit for him, since neither can shoot.
for sure this argument has merit, and I have made it myself, but if LeBron tells the Sixers he wants to come here, it would take some serious stones on behalf of new GM Marc Eversley to turn that down.
By the way, I feel similarly about the Lakers to a lesser degree, because a team with Lebron doesn't really need Ball.

 
If the Bron wanted to play for the sixers, and he really isnt a good fit with simmons, you would think they could just trade simmons

 
***BLANKET DISCLOSURE FOR ALL COMMENTS HENCEFORTH: I WANT COLANGELO GONE***

Marc Stein was on Dunc'd On yesterday and he said that in his experience, the GM really has no impact on where players will choose to play.  Much different than coaches.  It will just be the most money.  

(Or at least I need to believe this)
For the stars it really is not about the $ unless it is one of those Supermax deals...in the NBA you pretty much know what the stars are gonna get paid before they sign...it is not like some of the other sports where there can be a legit bidding war...

 
For the stars it really is not about the $ unless it is one of those Supermax deals...in the NBA you pretty much know what the stars are gonna get paid before they sign...it is not like some of the other sports where there can be a legit bidding war...
some truth to this, but someone like Paul George may not be able to get a max deal and if the Sixers can give him $140 vs $125, he's probably going Sixers regardless.

 
I don’t know how Colangelo can claim he didn’t know about his wife’s burner accounts yet the three accounts The Ringer didn’t disclose to the 76ers were moved to private within hours of them making an inquiry.
and the accounts were linked to each other, following each other. i get he is scrambling to try and save face, and i can't blame him for that, but a much better strategy for him would be to come out and play the card it was just his wife defending her husband on twitter that went little too far

 
some truth to this, but someone like Paul George may not be able to get a max deal and if the Sixers can give him $140 vs $125, he's probably going Sixers regardless.
The only scenario I picture George not getting a max deal is by his own choice...it would have to be a scenario where he wants to play for a specific team and is willing to sacrifice a few dollars for that chance...if it is about money he will get the max...

 
I don't really see the fit with the Sixers. I'm sure Lebron would mesh well with Embiid, but I don't see Simmons and Fultz as a good fit for him, since neither can shoot.
Yes, but LeBron can shoot, I could see LeBron taking a lesser role. Maybe not next year, but after that. They could/would trade Fultz for shooting. 

 
now that the silly game is out of the way, we can get back to the good stuff. Seems the Colangelo stuff can begin to wrap up for the team tomorrow. Meanwhile, one of the shill reporters in Philly wrote this:

"Sixers special advisor Jerry Colangelo could be fighting for his son’s job. After all, Jerry Colangelo, who is widely respected around the league, may think the Sixers owe him because he stepped in to right the tanking ship when they hired him during 2015-16 season."

this mother F'er righted the ship? What the trades for Ilyasova and Baylis have saved the franchise? he is a medical Guru and has healed the injuries? man, i will be happy to be rid of this family, F these guys
I'll agree with you on the trades parts but if you look army recent post in the 76ers thread about a chance conversation I dropped into JC found out people thought the Sixers were an F'n joke Clown show with Hinkie. I read a few reports not big time players that no one was willing to touch the 76ers which is why the league got involved to help them find some one. Now I don't know if thats true but this goes back to my whole thing of I think 76ers fans think the team is way more popular to people then they really believe. Do they have some good young talent? Sure but I just don't see them as a destination spot with all the issues they've had in recent yrs. The Sixers still don't have the greatest of Depth either and even if they got Lebron they'd still need room to get better depth which now cost more then a pretty penny these days. Either way a lot of people viewed the Sixers as a joke and laughing stock. I mean how the F do you play a season without getting someone capable to play PG? It was the most blatant tank jobs in NBA history. Then you have a clown in Hinkie who thinks he's MR Buss thumbing his noise at other GMs and owners. So yeah I'd say the Sixers owe JC a thank you.  

 
I don’t know how Colangelo can claim he didn’t know about his wife’s burner accounts yet the three accounts The Ringer didn’t disclose to the 76ers were moved to private within hours of them making an inquiry.
How do we know it wasn't some disgruntled Sixers employee either? I mean there are some fairly good people out there who can hack accounts or set up burner accounts and put in someones # without realizing it. 

 
For the stars it really is not about the $ unless it is one of those Supermax deals...in the NBA you pretty much know what the stars are gonna get paid before they sign...it is not like some of the other sports where there can be a legit bidding war...
I can actually agree with this. Also its about where they are going, the coach and players on the team. However some o these guys know in order to be successful as a team they may have to take less money. The Spurs guys did this for yrs to stay together. Might be the most underpaid bunch in NBA history honestly. I know a lot of people say for yrs Lebron was underpaid but the Spurs Manu/Parker/Duncan combo might be the most underpaid trio ever in terms of what they could've gotten on the open market. That's one of the things that happened with MIA though. Too many guys on big deals so they didn't have enough cap space without going over to add ample depth. I think the Cavs ran into this issue as well

 
I'll agree with you on the trades parts but if you look army recent post in the 76ers thread about a chance conversation I dropped into JC found out people thought the Sixers were an F'n joke Clown show with Hinkie. I read a few reports not big time players that no one was willing to touch the 76ers which is why the league got involved to help them find some one. Now I don't know if thats true but this goes back to my whole thing of I think 76ers fans think the team is way more popular to people then they really believe. Do they have some good young talent? Sure but I just don't see them as a destination spot with all the issues they've had in recent yrs. The Sixers still don't have the greatest of Depth either and even if they got Lebron they'd still need room to get better depth which now cost more then a pretty penny these days. Either way a lot of people viewed the Sixers as a joke and laughing stock. I mean how the F do you play a season without getting someone capable to play PG? It was the most blatant tank jobs in NBA history. Then you have a clown in Hinkie who thinks he's MR Buss thumbing his noise at other GMs and owners. So yeah I'd say the Sixers owe JC a thank you.  
Wait, so the Sixers should be worried that Steve Van Gundy or other terrible NBA people thought the NBA was a joke? and the Sixers should care? Look at Colangelo here him self, i don't think we need to view NBA people as the end all be all. I am guessing good 'ol Billy King was one of them too, the same guy who sold a decade of a franchise for old players?

and no one was willing to touch the 76ers, who the hell is able to say that? do we think Colangelo is the reason they got Reddick, or the $23 million they had in availabale cap space because of his predecessor? and if you think an NBA player wouldn't come to this team with this young talent and a good way to help your career, you are crazy. sure their 10 win season no one probably wanted to join them, but that summer it is honestly a player's loss to not join. You don't think the opportunity given to Ilyasova and Bellinelli this year helps their next contract?

 
Also now that I remembered my question I wanted to ask I'll ask it. 

So Thursday my wonderful buddy (Who I discussed in another thread about a month or so ago) was getting on y case. One of the reasons he doesn't like some of the stuff I say about the Sixers is purely because I'm a bulls fan. To summarize this dude is your typical sports media fan shill. AKA take everything said on radio and TV as truth without questioning it. Anyway he says he thinks Lebron is better then MJ (Not my question) and frankly I think he only says that knowing I'm a Bulls fan just to rile me up. This is how petty this guy is. Anyway He didn't agree with me on the Ben Simmons dating Kylie Jenner or whatever her name is. I said athletes need to stay away from that trash family Jenner/Kardashian etc because nothing good ever happens when people associated with them. Rockets lose series do to Travis Scoutt Involvement, Lamar Odom issues, Kanye's issues, the list goes on and on. I said that could determine Lebron not going to the Sixers given he has to deal with the family with Thompson in Cleveland and maybe he wants to get away from that. Anyway we keep on talking and we go over Lebron's teammates. I told him I don't feel sorry for Lebron and can't handle the BS of it's Lebron's teammates fault when they lose because Lebron picked these guys. Yes the teammates should play better but Lebron hand picked his team. He doesn't believe Lebron hand picks his own teammates. He basically says Lebron has no say in his teammates which I called Bull. Thankfully we got to our destination at this point and the convo was dropped. 

So my question is Do you Agree with me that Lebron does hand pick his teammates and Lebron the "GM" should have some blame for the guys he has on the court now? or No Lebron doesn't pick teammates? 

 
Also now that I remembered my question I wanted to ask I'll ask it. 

So Thursday my wonderful buddy (Who I discussed in another thread about a month or so ago) was getting on y case. One of the reasons he doesn't like some of the stuff I say about the Sixers is purely because I'm a bulls fan. To summarize this dude is your typical sports media fan shill. AKA take everything said on radio and TV as truth without questioning it. Anyway he says he thinks Lebron is better then MJ (Not my question) and frankly I think he only says that knowing I'm a Bulls fan just to rile me up. This is how petty this guy is. Anyway He didn't agree with me on the Ben Simmons dating Kylie Jenner or whatever her name is. I said athletes need to stay away from that trash family Jenner/Kardashian etc because nothing good ever happens when people associated with them. Rockets lose series do to Travis Scoutt Involvement, Lamar Odom issues, Kanye's issues, the list goes on and on. I said that could determine Lebron not going to the Sixers given he has to deal with the family with Thompson in Cleveland and maybe he wants to get away from that. Anyway we keep on talking and we go over Lebron's teammates. I told him I don't feel sorry for Lebron and can't handle the BS of it's Lebron's teammates fault when they lose because Lebron picked these guys. Yes the teammates should play better but Lebron hand picked his team. He doesn't believe Lebron hand picks his own teammates. He basically says Lebron has no say in his teammates which I called Bull. Thankfully we got to our destination at this point and the convo was dropped. 

So my question is Do you Agree with me that Lebron does hand pick his teammates and Lebron the "GM" should have some blame for the guys he has on the court now? or No Lebron doesn't pick teammates? 
i think the whole Lebron as GM thing gets way over played. I am sure a team like Cleveland, that has nothing but the best player in the league, would likely inquire with him about players they may acquire. same with most NBA teams in the league (i would think the Pels asked Davis what he thought about Boogie coming to New Orleans before they pulled the trigger, etc.). There have been some poor coaches and front office staff in Cle, so i wouldn't be surprised if Lebron was more assertive. 

but i think it is the same as people who say Lebron has to be on ball to do well, so it will take from Simmons. I don't think he has to be, i think it is more due to him not having a good floor general so he fills the gap. Same with the times he probably weighed in on decisions. but that is why you need a good front office too, to kind of say "thanks Lebron, good point, but we are going this way instead because .....". not that hard, unless you are not a strong franchise (which as it looks now, the Sixers are on the bottom of that ranking)

 
If the Bron wanted to play for the sixers, and he really isnt a good fit with simmons, you would think they could just trade simmons
Take it for what it's worth, but Chris Broussard had said several times on Cowherd's show that sources close to James have told him that he has interest in playing off the ball, which would make him a good fit in both Houston and Philly, if true. 

 
I'm shocked that here we are four days later and Bryan Colanagelo still has a job. It seems likely now that he survives this even though it may destroy the franchise from within.

We're a long way from Meek Mill and helicopter rides.
definite frustration, but i can't blame the org. going through a due process. it is embarrassing that the internet solved this quicker then a hired firm, but whatev's. rumour is that the Sixers have liked to let front office staff go friday evenings or saturday because there are less people in when they clean out their office. I will believe when i see it. hopefully today, becaue the longer it goes, the worse it gets for the whole team. 

 
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