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2017 Raiders - how's the 2018 draft looking? (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
- Start date
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Exactly. Last two weeks the defense made Siemian and Geno look like studs. The talk after the kc game will be how Smith diced up the secondary. I am not sure the offense will be able to keep up this time around.
What strikes is they did not get one playmaker in last year’s draft. Conley is a mystery, Obi is healthy but really has been invisible, and We aren’t hering Vandeross’ name called often. Am I misding something?
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ICON211
Footballguy
I expected nothing from Vanderdoes and that's exactly what we're getting. Jihad Ward was a complete waste of a pick. Calhoun complete waste. Maybe Reggie isn't the drafting and talent evaluation God he was made out to be by some people.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
We got a win
we got lucky last year, enjoy the ride
go back 4 years ago and tell me you wouldn't like a win no matter how ugly
looking forward to KC and LA games but no expectations
we got lucky last year, enjoy the ride
go back 4 years ago and tell me you wouldn't like a win no matter how ugly
looking forward to KC and LA games but no expectations
DocHolliday
Footballguy
This really sums it up. The Raiders are not a good team this year. If the O can get on track like it should, the Raiders could at least win some fun shootouts. Instead, both sides of the ball have struggled all season and made for ugly games win or lose.
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
If the Chargers somehow win the division and/or make a Wildcard berth, I am going to be that much more pissed at what could have been this year.
Not that the Chargers haven't been playing well over the last few weeks and deserve it more than we do at this point. It's just that they are the Chargers.
Not that the Chargers haven't been playing well over the last few weeks and deserve it more than we do at this point. It's just that they are the Chargers.
Agree. A lot of players on offense regressed this this year. Carr, Cooper, the Oline and on and on. Back to Richard, I think we are seeing who he really is. An undrafted rookie free agent who played over his head last year.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
I dunno why Patterson isn't getting more special teams touches and plays designed to get him the ball
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
So.
Nigh upon the eve of one of, if not the most, important games of the season, in the most wide-open division in the league -- our second tilt against the Chiefs, who are tied in games, are on a 1-6 skid, but a slightly better divisional record than we do.
And Reid goes ahead and suspends Peters, arguably the biggest defnsive key they have, for his flag-tossing stadium-leaving antics.
Are the Chiefs trying to make it easier for us or what? I respect Reid for the culture he's laying down, but seems a really ill-timed punishment given what the Chiefs are trying to do.
Hopefully this works to our advantage. We only have one road game left, and we need to hold off KC and SD as much as humanly possible by racking up wins directly against and in the tough extra-divisional match ups we have to come.
Nigh upon the eve of one of, if not the most, important games of the season, in the most wide-open division in the league -- our second tilt against the Chiefs, who are tied in games, are on a 1-6 skid, but a slightly better divisional record than we do.
And Reid goes ahead and suspends Peters, arguably the biggest defnsive key they have, for his flag-tossing stadium-leaving antics.
Are the Chiefs trying to make it easier for us or what? I respect Reid for the culture he's laying down, but seems a really ill-timed punishment given what the Chiefs are trying to do.
Hopefully this works to our advantage. We only have one road game left, and we need to hold off KC and SD as much as humanly possible by racking up wins directly against and in the tough extra-divisional match ups we have to come.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Even if the Raiders win this pitiful division and sneak into the playoffs, actually winning a playoff game seems unrealistic. I guess we should believe that the Raiders will get their #### together now and roll into the playoffs as a hot team. It's possible. Not likely.
Hankmoody
Footballguy
First round isn't out of the question. After NEP and PIT, both of which will have a bye, who scares you? Two of BAL/BUF/NYJ/TEN/JAX/LAC/KCC will be wildcards. If we win enough to win the division or somehow pull out a wildcard then none of those teams are out of reach. I agree it's a longshot to hope to make the conference championship game, but getting one win is totally doable. We have the talent. We haven't had the execution or coaching yet. Maybe we get it back in gear.
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DocHolliday
Footballguy
The only teams that don't scare me are BUF and TEN. KC has lost its way but has plenty of talent.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Do we really have the talent? I mean there is certainly the perception of talent, I haven't seen it play out out the field since week 2. [Speaking of week 2, it would be interesting to see the outcome of a Raiders-Jets game if they played again. My money would be on the Jets.] As far as teams we should fear: Pats, Steelers, Ravens, Jax, Chargers. KC is a complete toss up. Fom a betting perspective I will take the underdog and points.
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Agreed. If one scrutinized this roster from top to bottom it is devoid of talent mainly on defense. I believe the offense has enough talent with Carr and 4/5 of an Oline to score 20 pts a game if need be. But that defense has been atrocious for years and is still a couple years away from being playoff caliber, and thats being generous. They have to do a better job of drafting and bringing in FAs to support Mack.
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Even defensively the raw talent is there. Amerson played really well a couple of years ago. Sean Smith was a Pro-Bowler. Navorro Bowman might be a tad slower but 95% of Navarro Bowman's physical talent is still better than most MIKEs out there. Irivn was one of our favorite FA signings. Corey James has even flashed. Our problem on defense has been scheme, communication, strategy. If you gave Bill Belichik this defense we'd be top 10.
And we already know that if we have Derek Carr we have a chance in any game. Cooper's health is a concern but the QB makes the WR much more so than the opposite. Dropping dimes can make Johnny Holton look awfully Cooper-ish very quickly and getting the ball more to Patterson has been effective. Our OL and Lynch can be effective enough running the ball.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
Notice that your appraisal of the Raiders talent speaks to each players' past, not their present level of play. If the talent is there it doesn't show on the film. Blaming scheme and strategy only explains part of the problem. Scheme can result in flash plays but it is individual talent that sustains a high level of play. At some point a Dlineman just has to beat the player in front of them. At some point the DB has to make a play on the ball. The defense is doing neither consistently. That speaks to the talent level.Hankmoody said:
We saw this last week. First half vs the Gmen the defense was playing pretty well. By the second half they were getting shredded by a backup QB (again).
Sorry to continually be so negative. I do not mean to rain on others' parade. I am just venting my disappointment over the team's performance this year
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Agree with this take. Smith and Nelson were highly regarded, but nothing regarding their play with the Raiders shows that they are playing at the levels they might have once been -- we see flashes, but consistency is completely missing, and I see more lapses than great plays from them both. The tackling in the secondary across the board is also still horrendous.
Agree with @Bruno2 as well that the offense actually does have the talent, but again, for whatever reason -- I think it stems from playcalling/scheme, Carr not really being healthy and it's affecting his throw mechanics, and the O line regressing -- they have failed to capitalize on that talent.
Also hate being Debbie Downer -- I don't see us getting into the playoffs given our performance this year, nor do I really think we deserve it. If we somehow do achieve the highly unlikely -- win the division or a wildcard -- I don't see us getting out of the first week of playoffs. But if we did get that far again, that would be a gigantic win for this team as while there has been clear regression in level of play, at least we got as far as we did last year and that's something to build on for the (hopefully) new coaching staff next year.
LawFitz
Footballguy
Yeah, I disagree. This team has talent, but it's not being developed or utilized properly and is regressing on all sides of the ball. JDR is melting down before our eyes and until we get a legit coaching staff, this team is going nowhere. Like QBs (and just as important) legit head coaches are a rare commodity and right now we have the equivalent of Kerry 'KFC' Collins at the helm of this team.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
The carousel between him and Tuiasosopo? The beginning of the long 15 year search for our franchise QB that ended with Gannon and started again with Carr and took us through these guys, Andrew Walter, Aaron Borrks, McCown, Culpepper, JaMarcus, Campbell, Palmer, and Pryor? The 37-75 cumulative record?
We have different definitions for "good times."
Seriously, though, does bring back memories -- for better or for worse -- of still having guys like Moss, Sapp, Asomugha, Lechler, Gallery, and Woodson on the team.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
You're not being negative--you're being realistic. Three wins in the last four games and suddenly there's lipstick on a pig and the pig has a new owner so suddenly the pig is not so unattractive to some.
But it's still a pig and this pig has smelled most of the time. It's just smelled a little less bad lately. And because it smells less bad lately, suddenly some of the pig's fans have forgotten how bad it's smelled most of the time.
They need to not make the playoffs so they can get higher picks to get pigs that are less smelly than the current pigs.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
I think there is value in making the playoffs, even if it happens with a weak record, say 9-7. It's hard to get that experience for our younger players and we need to build a culture of winning. Losing out and getting a higher draft spot has it's advantages sure, but being part of the post-season has it's benefit too.
Besides, after all those years of losing, don't you like having the team playing meaningful games in December and January?
Besides, after all those years of losing, don't you like having the team playing meaningful games in December and January?
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
Smith and Amerson are better playing press corner and we are starting to see more of that. Although, If we get Hill lined up on Smith do we get him to tackle Hill straight off the line...Hankmoody said:
How tight was Bowman with Vic Fangio? Looking to the off season it is highly likely that Fangio is available and if I'm Reggie I'm getting all the intel i can on him from Bowman.
And if Denver gets blown up we can bring back our old OC...
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Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
If we can sweep the Chiefs that will be a major part of my list of things id like to see happen this year
Who knows, if we go ballistic vs the Chiefs again do we hypnotise our OC to think we are playing the chiefs every week?
Who knows, if we go ballistic vs the Chiefs again do we hypnotise our OC to think we are playing the chiefs every week?
Stompin' Tom Connors
Footballguy
Him and Del Rio, the guy looks completely unanimated and removed from the game, almost like a guy who scored a free sideline pass from his buddy at work than an NFL head coach.
The D -- particularly Mack and Irvin -- have kept this game relatively close despite the complete domination the Chiefs have had over the Raiders. Pagano's touch has definitely been a big improvement since he's taken the helm, creating different defensive looks in the pass rush and in coverage (they are doing a solid job on Kelce so far).
DocHolliday
Footballguy
It hurts but this is the best thing to happen. There are serious issues on both sides of the ball. This isn't a playoff team.
SDJohnny
Footballguy
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
What a steamer
Chaka
Footballguy
Chaka
Footballguy
I am a believer that coaches can grow, change and improve but over time the returns are diminishing on that ability.
This season has been classic JDR from 10 years ago and was exactly what I was concerned with when he was hired. Simply put he isn't a coach who elevates his teams with good coaching or or game planning. He's a put-an-axe-in-the-locker-room and hope for the best type. That was true twelve years ago and it's true today. No amount of wearing stupid suits on the sidelines will reinvent him as a great football mind.
To my first point I would rather cut the cord on on JDR and give a guy like McDaniels another chance. Heck, I hope McKenzie is keeping tabs on Dennis Allen at this point. My feeling is I would rather swing for the fences on the next great young coach than go with the pre-defined outcomes from "they-are-what-they-are" types like JDR.
This season has been classic JDR from 10 years ago and was exactly what I was concerned with when he was hired. Simply put he isn't a coach who elevates his teams with good coaching or or game planning. He's a put-an-axe-in-the-locker-room and hope for the best type. That was true twelve years ago and it's true today. No amount of wearing stupid suits on the sidelines will reinvent him as a great football mind.
To my first point I would rather cut the cord on on JDR and give a guy like McDaniels another chance. Heck, I hope McKenzie is keeping tabs on Dennis Allen at this point. My feeling is I would rather swing for the fences on the next great young coach than go with the pre-defined outcomes from "they-are-what-they-are" types like JDR.
Ed Wood
Footballguy
Not bad for 20 minutes work. 
The Autumn Wind is a pansy
Speaking very softly
With a satiny sweet song, he minces along
Tiptoeing carefully
His face is carefully shaven
He wears a bright pink sash
With a bowler about his head
And a pencil-thin mustache
He squeals as he flies the country
A wimp small and slight
His opponents all snicker and grin and giggle
When they have him in their sights
The Autumn Wind is a pansy
Skipping just for fun
He'll go down easy, without much fight
And he'll cry when his season is done.
The Autumn Wind is a pansy
Speaking very softly
With a satiny sweet song, he minces along
Tiptoeing carefully
His face is carefully shaven
He wears a bright pink sash
With a bowler about his head
And a pencil-thin mustache
He squeals as he flies the country
A wimp small and slight
His opponents all snicker and grin and giggle
When they have him in their sights
The Autumn Wind is a pansy
Skipping just for fun
He'll go down easy, without much fight
And he'll cry when his season is done.
massraider
Footballguy
Anyone can make an argument on why Del Rio should keep this job, let me know.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Not going to do that but it's not all JDR. Carr has struggled most of the season. It's not just the poor decisions. His passes look different. Maybe the back injury has done something physically or mentally.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I haven’t watched the game yet but the outcome is no surprise. The Chiefs own the Raiders at Arrowhead. For Carr to be cinsidered elite he needs to win at the tough venues.
Looking at the box score the only surprise that jumps out is Smith not throwing for 400 yds. Lynch averaged over 8 ypc and only touched the ball 7 times. Really? In hind sight, they should have let Dowling walk and kept Musgrave.
Looking ahead I wonder if they keep Crabtree? Maybe they decide to let him walk and find a more economical replacement. If Rashard Matthews comes free I think he would be an upgrade at a lower cap number.
They have sunk a lot of money into the oline and didn’t get what they paid for. I suspect Penn lost his focus during his holdout. Gabe took a big step back. Maybe he was feeling pressure from signing the big contract? The unit could use some competition at tackle, but I hope they bring the entire unit back.
Defense should be the focus of the offseason and draft, but I would love to see a dominant game breaker at RB. Lynch was criminally unused this year but he is past his prime. For the offense to be great they need a dominant RB.
If they can find a legit pass rusher to pair with Mack, and get a player maker at LB they will be improved. They need to sign Mack this year. What is their cap situation?
Looking at the box score the only surprise that jumps out is Smith not throwing for 400 yds. Lynch averaged over 8 ypc and only touched the ball 7 times. Really? In hind sight, they should have let Dowling walk and kept Musgrave.
Looking ahead I wonder if they keep Crabtree? Maybe they decide to let him walk and find a more economical replacement. If Rashard Matthews comes free I think he would be an upgrade at a lower cap number.
They have sunk a lot of money into the oline and didn’t get what they paid for. I suspect Penn lost his focus during his holdout. Gabe took a big step back. Maybe he was feeling pressure from signing the big contract? The unit could use some competition at tackle, but I hope they bring the entire unit back.
Defense should be the focus of the offseason and draft, but I would love to see a dominant game breaker at RB. Lynch was criminally unused this year but he is past his prime. For the offense to be great they need a dominant RB.
If they can find a legit pass rusher to pair with Mack, and get a player maker at LB they will be improved. They need to sign Mack this year. What is their cap situation?
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Hankmoody
Footballguy
Very healthy. $15M to roll into next year and no significant UFA - Bowman would be good to re-sign and probably Nelson and Carrie just because they shouldn't be expensive and we need every warm body we can get in the secondary.
We do have to extend Khalil Mack but that's likely to actually lower his 2018 cap number since his signing bonus will prorate.
Could save $8.5M and $6M on Sean Smith and Amerson respectively, but since we're not burdened I hope they keep them both and see if Pagano can't get better play out of them - they both played much better football in the past.
RaiderBones
Footballguy
They should have fired KNJ and kept Musgrave before the season started. The Raiders were talking to Wade Phillips before the season started to help come in and mentor KNJ but he passed because he wanted to be the defensive coordinator and went with Pagano instead. How the hell do you pass on Wade Phillips for KNJ. That right there should have got JDR fired.
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RaiderBones
Footballguy
Vic TafurVerified account
@VicTafur
Derek Carr’s 41.4 passer rating when pressured is 60 points lower than his 101.4 rating in a clean pocket — the largest difference of the 37 QBs with 150 or more drop backs, per @PFF.
@VicTafur
Derek Carr’s 41.4 passer rating when pressured is 60 points lower than his 101.4 rating in a clean pocket — the largest difference of the 37 QBs with 150 or more drop backs, per @PFF.
Sarlakticacid
Footballguy
This was the big concern during the draft. We should have gotten a big discount on his extension to put towards the oline...
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I have always thought that one of the big reasons Carr gets rid of the ball so fast because is because of what he witnessed happened to his brother. Now that the oline is underperforming Carr has a serious case of the Yips. He is jumpier than a long-tailed cat in a room full of rocking chairs.
That said I have to wonder how much of Carr's game has ben effected by all the dropped passes. That has to have a negative impact on his confidence.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
There is lots of blame to go around. The once up and coming O has gone. We have to hope Carr had an off year. Cooper has really caused issues on O. I have been wishing for a true slot WR forever32 Counter Pass said:
The D needs a lot
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I was just about to post something about Carr. Are we sure he's even a franchise QB now? Rivers, Eli, Luck, etc....were able to sleep to 300 yard passing games when they're teams sucked and carried the offense. Carr has led a bunch of 3 and out drives.
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
The jury is still out on Carr but the fact that has has 13 4th quarter come backs to date is a big positive. I prefer to believe the combination of coaching, line play and dropped passes have negatively impacted his progress. I see a strong competitive fire and solid field presence in Carr. The decision-making has not been good, but improved coaching can help. Clean up his mechanics and surrounding cast I think he will be fine.
In terms of fantasy I will have a difficult time trusting him in the near future.
In terms of fantasy I will have a difficult time trusting him in the near future.
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