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2019 All Things Closers Thread (1 Viewer)

Kraft...

Kraft...

Footballguy
Tis the season for save speculation :confetti:

@eoMMan Already taking the conductor role on the  Strickland train in Seattle

Own multiple shares of Knebel so these Kimbrel rumors have me very nervous

Colome looking like the guy for pale hoes

Other craptastic unsettled situations
KC: Boxey/Speedy Wily??
Miami: Steckenrider/Romo, Young Gun or Super Vet?
Boston: Barnes/Brasier (think it's Barnes' job to lose)
Mini: May/Parker??

 
Kraft... said:
Holland apparently the man in Zona  :mellow:
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I said I was gonna dump Archie Bradley if he wasn't named closer LAST year.  I finally dumped him this time.

 
Fat Drunk and Stupid said:
Because Holland will certainly lock down the job for the entire season.
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I said the same thing about Box or whoever last year.  I don't expect Bradley to close any time soon regardless.  It seems they like to use him in high leverage spots, yet don't want to pay him for actual saves.  

 
PIK95 said:
I said the same thing about Box or whoever last year.  I don't expect Bradley to close any time soon regardless.  It seems they like to use him in high leverage spots, yet don't want to pay him for actual saves.  
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It's why leagues should start adding holds into their scoring in some way.  Guys like Hader or Miller have been the best RP on their teams but are used when they should be - in critical times of the game but then aren't valuable in the fake game.  Seems like that should be corrected by adding holds. 

 
Gally said:
It's why leagues should start adding holds into their scoring in some way.  Guys like Hader or Miller have been the best RP on their teams but are used when they should be - in critical times of the game but then aren't valuable in the fake game.  Seems like that should be corrected by adding holds. 
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It doesn't work as smoothly as you'd think on the surface - a guy can go in with a three run lead, give up three base runners, record no outs, and still get a hold if someone else comes in and bails him out of the inning.

I don't think there is a good solution to it in our game - Hader was as valuable as the 3rd best RP in the game last year so maybe there isn't a problem needing fixed anyway.

 
MAC_32 said:
It doesn't work as smoothly as you'd think on the surface - a guy can go in with a three run lead, give up three base runners, record no outs, and still get a hold if someone else comes in and bails him out of the inning.

I don't think there is a good solution to it in our game - Hader was as valuable as the 3rd best RP in the game last year so maybe there isn't a problem needing fixed anyway.
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You can also come in for a save and give up three walks, two runs and no K's and get a save.  I am not sure of  your point.  Bad outings happen all the time.  Sometimes you can squeak out a win or a save and other times you strike out the side after your defense gives up two errors and a hit for a blown save. 

 
Gally said:
You can also come in for a save and give up three walks, two runs and no K's and get a save.  I am not sure of  your point.  Bad outings happen all the time.  Sometimes you can squeak out a win or a save and other times you strike out the side after your defense gives up two errors and a hit for a blown save. 
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My point is holds don't solve a problem that may not exist in the first place.  

 
MAC_32 said:
My point is holds don't solve a problem that may not exist in the first place.  
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Its add value to RP used in high leverage situations if you combine holds & saves.  Saves are really meaningless stats at this point with the specialization.  A guy comes in with a 3 run lead and nobody on base and gets three ground outs.  Not really a huge deal.  Where as a guy comes in with the bases loaded in a one run game and strikes out two guys to preserve the lead in the 8th and then the team scores two runs in the bottom of the 8th and they bring in the "closer" for the save. 

There might not be a problem but I think holds have a value and should be represented in the fake game. 

 
Gally said:
Its add value to RP used in high leverage situations if you combine holds & saves.  Saves are really meaningless stats at this point with the specialization.  A guy comes in with a 3 run lead and nobody on base and gets three ground outs.  Not really a huge deal.  Where as a guy comes in with the bases loaded in a one run game and strikes out two guys to preserve the lead in the 8th and then the team scores two runs in the bottom of the 8th and they bring in the "closer" for the save. 

There might not be a problem but I think holds have a value and should be represented in the fake game. 
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I think leaving it as just saves is more challenging.  Do I pay a premium for a top 5 closer?  How long do I wait before getting the last mid tier closer I'm comfortable with?  Would I rather gamble late on a mediocre pitcher that is more likely to close? or a quality arm and hope he earns his way into the role? Or how much of each?

When you add other categories (i.e. holds) an unintended consequence is it makes roster construction a lot easier.  I may be on an island here, but I think that's a deal breaker.  Yes, closer's still have more value in the format you mentioned.  However, you can very cheaply piece together a small army of high k/low ratio relievers that pile up the holds.  There's always MR's out there.  And if it's daily transactions it becomes a streamer's paradise.  And over the course of the season that strategy often bests even the top closer's.

We experimented with it for a couple years a while ago, but hated it for those reasons so we abandoned it.

 
MAC_32 said:
I think leaving it as just saves is more challenging.  Do I pay a premium for a top 5 closer?  How long do I wait before getting the last mid tier closer I'm comfortable with?  Would I rather gamble late on a mediocre pitcher that is more likely to close? or a quality arm and hope he earns his way into the role? Or how much of each?

When you add other categories (i.e. holds) an unintended consequence is it makes roster construction a lot easier.  I may be on an island here, but I think that's a deal breaker.  Yes, closer's still have more value in the format you mentioned.  However, you can very cheaply piece together a small army of high k/low ratio relievers that pile up the holds.  There's always MR's out there.  And if it's daily transactions it becomes a streamer's paradise.  And over the course of the season that strategy often bests even the top closer's.

We experimented with it for a couple years a while ago, but hated it for those reasons so we abandoned it.
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I understand the perspective but it's not my preference.   I actually like the flexibility adding holds provides so you don't even have to have a closer if you don't want one.  It gives more options for team construction than needing to get a top 5 closer to compete.  Neither solution is right or wrong it just goes to personal preference on how you like to construct a league. 

 
Doctor Detroit said:
As the Holland owner in that league who just grabbed Bradley, just want to say thanks!  :thumbup:
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I suspect you may want to look "Far" ther "East" for Holland's actual handcuff.  Bradley is too frustrating to own.

 
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Grabbed Ty Buttrey in all three of my leagues this year, all dynasty or keeper leagues. I like his long term closer prospects. Even for this year I think Allen is shaky at best to hold that gig all season.

Still holding three Knebel shares too  :scared:

 
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Kraft... said:
Grabbed Ty Buttrey in all three of my leagues this year, all dynasty or keeper leagues. I like his long term closer prospects. Even for this year I think Allen is shaky at best to hold that gig all season.
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Picked him up for a buck in my auction keeper.  Intended to cuff him to Allen in a dyno, but I got too cute waiting.  Maybe he'll get dropped?  

He's always struck a lot of guys out and induced soft contact (no season's with a HR/9 over 1, GB rate around 50), but last year he brought the walks down and introduced a nasty curve.  A lot to like about him long term.

 
2 inning SV (21 pitches) for Hader.  It took a HR saving catch to do it.

 
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Eephus said:
2 inning SV (21 pitches) for Hader.  It took a HR saving catch to do it.
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Are they really going to roll him out for 2 inning saves?  I know they love to bring him in where needed but not sure how long they can go and do that.  I still think Kimbrel signing makes the most sense there.  

 
Redwes25 said:
Are they really going to roll him out for 2 inning saves?  I know they love to bring him in where needed but not sure how long they can go and do that.  I still think Kimbrel signing makes the most sense there.  
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Hader is the guy the Brewers will use in high leverage spots.  He came on in the 8th to face the heart of the lineup (Goldschmidt, DeJong, Ozuna) even though they're all right handed bats.  He struck them all out on 11 pitches so they kept him in for the 9th.

I think Counsell is smart enough not to overuse Hader so I'd expect SV opportunities to get distributed around.  This would change obviously if they get Kimbrel.

 
PIK95 said:
Now what?
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Put him in your IR/IL spot.  Don't drop him.  As you've seen already, Seattle is going to have a lot of save opportunities.  Strickland still has lots of upside, assuming this back injury isn't too serious.

 
Saturday March 30, 2019 is the inaugural National Crap Closer Day

 
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Trevor Rosenthal booed off the field after four unretired batters and no outs. I still believe. What are the Nats fans? The new Phillie fans?

 
If you have an open injury spot, stash Jeremy Jeffress.   :ninja:

Hader has been dominant but word is they might use him in more of a multi-inning role.

 
And if you are in a deeper league with minor league spots, stash Richard Lovelady. 

Great name and he could be the future closer for KC.  

 
HellToupee said:
I’d roster Kyle Zimmer if I was speculating on Royals saves
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I'm happy to see SF native Zimmer finally make it to the show.  It's been a long, hard road.

I think the Royals are being cautious with him in the cold weather but he'll have to be able to pitch on back-to-back days for him to be a viable closing option. 

 
Eephus said:
I'm happy to see SF native Zimmer finally make it to the show.  It's been a long, hard road.

I think the Royals are being cautious with him in the cold weather but he'll have to be able to pitch on back-to-back days for him to be a viable closing option. 
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Definitely think they will ease him in this month . I’m guessing a month in they will push him , they have him signed to a 1yr 500k contract .

Just one humble mans opinion  

 
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