I agree LBJ is the better basketball player. Just feel like Embiid is having a better season than him though.
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2020-21 NBA *Playoffs* Thread: Bucks are the champs and you can take that to the bank bromigos (4 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
- Start date
Alex P Keaton
Footballguy
I’m still trying to rebuild my respect for the officials after the 2002 WCF’s. Might never fully get it back.Jayrod said:
Jayrod
Footballguy
The Celtics are just not that good. Their record is exactly where they are as a team...mediocre.
They have potential, but I don't like the current trajectory of things. It is time for Stevens to work some magic. I'm sure getting Smart back would help, but he brings some of his own offensive struggles at times.
They have potential, but I don't like the current trajectory of things. It is time for Stevens to work some magic. I'm sure getting Smart back would help, but he brings some of his own offensive struggles at times.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Kemba is still working back to form. For a guy that relies on speed and precise timing to be great, it will take a bit.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Jokic is playing better than them both, but his team's record is holding him down in the voting.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Strong game from the Raptors
In terms of numbers, Jokic and Embiid are neck and neck. But yes, record makes Jokic out of it as of now.
Jayrod
Footballguy
Jokic is #1 in the NBA in Winshares, WS/48, Box +/- and VORP. The only advanced stat Embiid is leading is PER and Jokic is 2nd.
On the traditional stats, Embiid is ahead in PPG and blocks. Jokic is ahead in the rest (inc. #6 in the league in steals/game?!?) and crushing him in assists.
Based on the statistics, Jokic is the best player in the league.
Guess I was only looking at traditional stats. Assists is the only one Jokic is significantly above in. The rest of the ones he is leading in are close. I don't know what the heck ESPN's "player efficiency rating" is but Embiid is #1 in the league in that (Jokic #2)
Jokic also logs more minutes per game... If you look at per 48 minutes, Embiid leads in Points, Rebounds, Blocks. Jokic leads in Assists, Steals. Like I said, their stats are CLOSE, but I admit Jokic's are slightly better. But he has his team 7th in the west and he has been on the (very slight) downswing lately in stats as Embiid has been on the upswing. Jokic probably has a better chance to keep up the pace the rest of the season, but was just talking about stats to date.
Anyways my OP wasn't about Jokic. I think the award is Lebron's to lose, I just don't know why when Embiid is having such a better season than him.
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jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Are you going to ignore the Conference they play in? The 4th place team in the Eastern Conference is 1 game over 0.500. The 9th place team in the west is at 0.500. The team to beat in the East (the Nets) have had very few games with their guys healthy. In brutal honesty---Phili was by default going to be a dominant team in the East under the circumstances. What Lebron is doing at his age is exceptional. What Embiid is doing this season is how he should have been playing every season. Love the dude--but in ths past--he was either out of shape or he made things way to easy on defenders by floating out to the 3pt line way too much.
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Yes I think the Lakers as a 2 seed in West is more impressive than the 1 seed in the east. But Denver being a 7 seed currently, with a worse record than Philly, puts Jokic at a disadvantage from the record standpoint. I'm not sure how much this weighs in MVP voting, but maybe it does. Agree what Lebron is doing is crazy at his age, wondering if that matters and if it should matter. Seems that MVP voters really buy into narratives a lot. Should age matter? Should Embiid's past seasons matter? Maybe, maybe not.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
Hard to say--but I will say this. If Denver played in the East--they would be a top 3 seed. With that said--I don't want to come across as saying that Embiid should not be in the conversation. Dude absolutely is beasting this season and deserves to be one of the top candidates. My only point was that looking at only the stats is arguably ignoring the huge differences in the strength of each conference.
Sure a top 3 seed. Philly would still have a better record and their stats would be very very close.
I think this is a 2 man race.
EYLive
Footballguy
No, you don't get bonus point for being old.
It seems like everyone has a different definition of MVP though.
I think you do. The narrative of LeBron being the oldest player ever to win it will carry some votes.
As for everyone's definition, I mainly just mean the voters' definition.
Yo Mama
Footballguy
Thanks for the tip on tonight’s game @Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub !!!
I got a nice late weekend bonus going all in on the Raps thanks to your inside info. Kudos!
I got a nice late weekend bonus going all in on the Raps thanks to your inside info. Kudos!
Right, and he’s clearly not close to being there. Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight
. When you’re 5 for 21, you’re not.Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run. He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now. No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season. And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.
modogg
Footballguy
I assume we are all going to forget that Lebron has been basically Tanya Harding to Embiid as Nancy Kerrigan (had to look the name's up since it has been some years).
I love everyone talking about how old Lebron is and that is why he deserves it because Embiid sits too much. Well, Embiid wouldn't need to rest his sore back so much if he didn't significantly hurt it when Lebron pushed Embiid mid-air with both hands because he was too lazy to try and defend Embiid.
modogg
Footballguy
opposite on this one, and added to my loss live betting the Sixers +5
. Blowing 2 14-point leads was not a ton of fun
Major
Footballguy
Yeah, I honestly think the Celts are better off without this KembaRight, and he’s clearly not close to being there. Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight
Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run. He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now. No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season. And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Can they realistically trade his contract?Yeah, I honestly think the Celts are better off without this KembaRight, and he’s clearly not close to being there. Kemba shouldn’t be taking 20+ shots unless he’s been straight
Especially in game with a 20 point lead, get Pritchard some more run. He’s a better defender and quite honestly a better distributor right now. No reason to force Kemba when he’s off, which unfortunately has been far too frequently this season. And I get it, the Celts only hope this year is if Kemba is Kemba, but the Pels game was brutal.
modogg
Footballguy
when was the last time Danny actually made a trade, 2018? i am guessing with Kemba's degenerative knee, and large contract, he won't return much for any kind of trade they can actually make
Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub
Footballguy
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Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
right?! Jeeez, but WHAT A GAME!! EPIC comeback for my Pels! Still can't believe we pulled it off after we have choked away so many. Adams being out definitely changed our look on the floor, and it took them until third quarter to figure out a new game plan. Outstanding work by Josh Hart and he energized the rest of the crew I think with his hustle. I was still not super confident that we'd pull it off even when we forced overtime. I'll say they gifted Tatum a no travel call on his game-tying shot. And still not sure why Reddick got ejected, but it might have been the catalyst we needed to turn the tide. A team as young as we are needs games like this to grow their confidence, IMO. Here's to more comeback W's!!
modogg
Footballguy
i heard about the game and was wondering about the Reddick ejection myself. sounded like he went to give the ball back to the ref with some spin on the ball, so they ejected him?
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
Yep, literally just spun the ball around another player to get it to the ref. Now, he had gotten a warning for something else earlier in the game, but he must have said something when he spun it is all I could figure. Or the ref just had it out for him.
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
a liabilty is what he is, and i dont think there's a turnaround. we are seeing an odd thing - the sloppy side of positivity. it served Kemba well in Carolina, doing his best and that usually being the best in Carolina (the "forget it, Jake, it's Chinatown" of hoops). when he joined the Green he was too well-meaning to press his role in the wake of Kyrie, when the Stevens offenses actually needed him to, being point-oriented. the bubble happened, he lost his shot due to a knee, he lost his spot due to the two rising talents on the team.
Stevens did a smart thing rehabbing him early for this season - made him concentrate on being high-usage for shorter bursts of time, which was something that fit minutes-restrictions and the scheme. turns out to have been too much ego for an "it's all good" kinda guy. so Stevens has gone back to Tatum & Brown taking turns as the usage guy, which has reduced Kemba to the designated chukker and they aint falling cuz he has no rhythm not being on-ball. and his "It's all good" outlook keeps him from seeing how that hurts. he needs to get furious and he dont have it in him
meanwhile, like every coach in the league, Stevens has lost the ability to focus his players on important shots and important stops so there's no path to cooperation between his three usage guys. it's wasting an awful lot of talent and i guess i gotta become a Jazz fan if i wanna watch any kind of team concept in my favorite game.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Ryan Saunders gone, and it's beyond time. Great story, the name means a lot to the franchise, but it's over.
Obviously putting together KAT and D-Lo (and Beasley and Edwards and whomever else) was going to be a disaster defensively, but there's no way these guys should be 25th in scoring.
Obviously putting together KAT and D-Lo (and Beasley and Edwards and whomever else) was going to be a disaster defensively, but there's no way these guys should be 25th in scoring.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
what's your opinion of this rook McDaniels? seems like the right kind of 4 for KAT. and is Edwards playing any D (i never get to see em)?
Frostillicus
Footballguy
McDaniels is really advanced defensively at this stage. I like him a lot. You're right that he's a great fit next to KAT, especially if he can put on some muscle. With Towns next to him he doesn't even need to be able to shoot, but he might be able to.
Edwards is playing the exact kind of defense I expected. Breathtakingly athletic, fundamentally flawed. Honestly he could end up an all-defensive team player in the future or end up a defensive sieve who is only good for scoring. Nothing would surprise me.
wikkidpissah
Footballguy
y'know, i dont watch college ball anymore, so one of the ways i keep up w prospects is reading early on em and the AAU-era talk of the Edwards class was all McDaniel & Cole Anthony. he can let KAT loaf on D - body the bigger bigs and board - and do all the switching & rimrunning and then float out and let KAT have the post on offense. seems right. and the new coach just saw the job McD did on Siakam, so....
mr. furley
Footballguy
his availability issues didn't just start with Lebron fouling him
he topped out at 64 games in a season. he's cracked 30 mpg three times in a his career (33 this year). he sits too much because he's been hurt and/or out of game shape for most of his career.
modogg
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
he's averaging 1 more minute per game than his previous career high.
i think what you're seeing is that's his physical limit per night. he's such a big guy it has to be taxing to play much more and hope to remain healthy for a full season + playoffs.
SWC
Bromigo
they should hang a dumpster on a backboard and tell simmons to shoot threes at it and it would be perfect because he would still probably miss and then it would make it obvious to all of the world that he is the stat equivalent of an ok center from days gone by take that to the bank brodumpsterhans
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Insein
Footballguy
EYLive
Footballguy
Complaining about decades of officiating ineptitude is tiring. Can we just outsource this job to in Indian call center or something? Maybe crowdsource it remotely in real time to blind blues guitarists. Or just have Boston Dynamics build robots with AI but have the ego/snowflake tendencies programed out of them?
Nathan R. Jessep
Footballguy
was just listening to a beat writer on a radio show and he was at the game and said the official call (which your vid mentioned as well) was "throwing the ball with force" Ref got his feelings hurt apparently. 
Gr00vus
Footballguy
mr. furley
Footballguy
keep finding myself listening to the Lowe Post podcast, but man does he get in to the numbers a little too deeply. sometimes i get why some people really hate analytics focused analysis when listening to him.
when he starts throwing around reasons why a player is good or bad like "statistically when you look at his per 36 minute assist to turnover ratio in road games against pacific division opponents in February since 2017 when his teams are at least 3 games over .500 and he's averaging more than 19 minutes per game, then he's the kind of guy you want in your 9 man rotation come playoff time if you're a 6 seed playing at home."
or he'll parse the ever living #### out of statistics for two players and use them in opposite ways.
"the team is +11 with him on the floor and -4 when he's off, but if you look at the reasons why it's because he's playing against the other team's 4th best player in non-crunch time minutes and his shooting percentages in those situations on backdoor cuts ending in and 1 situation....."
and the guy he's comparing to he'll laud for his team being -4 when he's on the floor and +6 when he's off because the player shoots 41% on open threes.
i can appreciate the in-depth look at the NBA in a way no one else is really doing it, but holy ####
when he starts throwing around reasons why a player is good or bad like "statistically when you look at his per 36 minute assist to turnover ratio in road games against pacific division opponents in February since 2017 when his teams are at least 3 games over .500 and he's averaging more than 19 minutes per game, then he's the kind of guy you want in your 9 man rotation come playoff time if you're a 6 seed playing at home."
or he'll parse the ever living #### out of statistics for two players and use them in opposite ways.
"the team is +11 with him on the floor and -4 when he's off, but if you look at the reasons why it's because he's playing against the other team's 4th best player in non-crunch time minutes and his shooting percentages in those situations on backdoor cuts ending in and 1 situation....."
and the guy he's comparing to he'll laud for his team being -4 when he's on the floor and +6 when he's off because the player shoots 41% on open threes.
i can appreciate the in-depth look at the NBA in a way no one else is really doing it, but holy ####
Capella
Footballguy
Yea they really take the fun out of it. Somebody tweeted this weekend you can really tell those who see basketball as a culture vs those who see it as a spreadsheet.
Charlie Harper
Footballguy
I used to religiously listen to Lowe, but he can get pretty boring. Honestly, basketball isn't too hard to analyze right now teams pretty much play the same way. If they can shoot the 3, good. If they can play defense, better. If they have basketball IQ best.
My basketball time is split between player podcasts. Really enjoy Road Trippin (RJ amd Frye), No Chill (Gilbert Arenas), All the Smoke (Barnes and Jackson), and Rouge Bogues (Bogut). Also like Jalen and Jacoby for short rides.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Oof, Charlotte just got beat down on a 2-26 run.
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Frostillicus
Footballguy
Sorry you guys are all too dumb to understand math.
