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2021-22 NBA Thread: Bill Simmons furiously recording 2.5 hour long pod about how Boston is still better than Golden State (2 Viewers)

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Dr. Octopus said:
I guess people can look at it from two different perspectives- LBJ is the better “player”, has the better overall skill set, is more dominant etc - but Curry had the better “career” for the reasons people mentioned (rings, finals MVPs, doing it with one franchise, leadership, etc.)

In the end these discussions are mostly meaningless anyway.
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True, but how are finals mvps a checkmating in Curry’s favor over James when he is still trailing 4-1? I will not denigrate one guy to build up the other, but there is a reason why most put James in the goat convo now (outside of irrational haters who will never give him props no matter what he does), while Curry is still fighting to reach the all-time top 10. 

 
Ghost Rider said:
True, but how are finals mvps a checkmating in Curry’s favor over James when he is still trailing 4-1? I will not denigrate one guy to build up the other, but there is a reason why most put James in the goat convo now (outside of irrational haters who will never give him props no matter what he does), while Curry is still fighting to reach the all-time top 10. 
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I don't think any person would realistically choose prime Curry over prime LeBron if starting a franchise - Lebron is the superior player overall - but I do think there's a legit argument over who had the better career when all factors are considered.

I think it's arguable that Curry has done more for his teammates than LeBron has - but that's hard to quantify.

But like I said - in the end, who cares really?

 
Dr. Octopus said:
I don't think any person would realistically choose prime Curry over prime LeBron if starting a franchise - Lebron is the superior player overall - but I do think there's a legit argument over who had the better career when all factors are considered.

I think it's arguable that Curry has done more for his teammates than LeBron has - but that's hard to quantify.

But like I said - in the end, who cares really?
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He'd likely leave soonish

:P

 
And, yeah, it is pretty absurd in my book to say Curry is better all time than Lebron. However, this is what I was referring to a week or two ago about how sad his antics have gotten. He's hurting his legacy by being a terrible LeGM, walking around on defense, and the whole Klutch Sports thing. So I can understand why folks are moving him down their rankings so far.

 
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Warriors vs Celtics in the 2023 finals

Lebron will continue to choke in the playoffs and fall out of the top 100 in the current NBA

Chet Holmgren blows an achilles in the 3rd game

Luka wins the newly created Playoff MOP even though Dallas loses in the 1st round

Evan Mobley takes the Cavs to the ECF

 
Ghost Rider said:
True, but how are finals mvps a checkmating in Curry’s favor over James when he is still trailing 4-1? I will not denigrate one guy to build up the other, but there is a reason why most put James in the goat convo now (outside of irrational haters who will never give him props no matter what he does), while Curry is still fighting to reach the all-time top 10. 
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Let’s be honest here:

- LeBron wasn’t the MVP his first Miami year.  Wade was.

- Iggy wasn’t the MVP in 2015.  Steph clearly was.

- it should be 3-2 in mvps 

LeBron is still better all time though, by a measurable margin

 
Alex P Keaton said:
Let’s be honest here:

- LeBron wasn’t the MVP his first Miami year.  Wade was.

- Iggy wasn’t the MVP in 2015.  Steph clearly was.

- it should be 3-2 in mvps 

LeBron is still better all time though, by a measurable margin
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I don't really disagree.  Lebron is top 3-5 no matter what.  Curry is top 10 IMO.  But based on what they have accomplished and what their teams have accomplished, and the fact that they actually have played against each other in the finals 3x . . . . this is the Lebron-Curry Era, just like the 80s were Magic-Bird.  And the fact that he has to share it, keeps him from sniffing Jordan IMO.

 
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identikit said:
They need a better bench, for one

Ball-handling drills, lots of them

More of a point guard would help imo...maybe develop White?
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They have pretty much everyone under contract for next year, so I'm thinking some trades may be in store. I think they probably need to get better in the backcourt. If they're going to keep Brown and Tatum, then maybe they should get a guard that can facilitate to them better than Smart does. I don't know, just seems like a weird fit on offense.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I don't really disagree.  Lebron is top 3-5 no matter what.  Curry is top 10 IMO.  But based on what they have accomplished and what their teams have accomplished, and the fact that they actually have played against each other in the finals 3x . . . . this is the Lebron-Curry Era, just like the 80s were Magic-Bird.  And the fact that he has to share it, keeps him from sniffing Jordan IMO.
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In every single facet of the game except 3 point shooting, Lebron is better than curry. Every single one. 

 
mr. furley said:
Warriors vs Celtics in the 2023 finals

Lebron will continue to choke in the playoffs and fall out of the top 100 in the current NBA

Chet Holmgren blows an achilles in the 3rd game

Luka wins the newly created Playoff MOP even though Dallas loses in the 1st round

Evan Mobley takes the Cavs to the ECF
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Wait I know you’re being funny here but your third one is probably gonna actually happen. 

 
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Leeroy Jenkins said:
I feel like if they keep the team together, Green doesn't fall off, Klay is another year removed from surgeries (his legs looked weak out there to me), Curry stays healthy, and the young guys continue to  improve, then can certainly repeat.
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You can say that about half the teams that were in the playoffs this year. 

 
Capella said:
In every single facet of the game except 3 point shooting, Lebron is better than curry. Every single one. 
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Shooting overall.  Not just 3s.  Leadership.  GM skills.  I would say IQ is equal.  Titles is equal.  Lebron is a physical freak of nature.  Curry changed the game stylistically.  

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
I feel like if they keep the team together, Green doesn't fall off, Klay is another year removed from surgeries (his legs looked weak out there to me), Curry stays healthy, and the young guys continue to  improve, then can certainly repeat.
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Easier to get by with discount Klay when you have other good shooters to spell him with. It will be interesting to see how they fill out their roster with so much salary on the books. Payton and Porter are FAs.

Also feels like Klay could dial his usage back a bit. Statistically, he has his highest usage and highest 3pt attempt rate of his career while averaging his lowest 3pt % (still a very good 38.5%). Noticed a couple times in the finals, particularly in 4Qs, where he took a low percentage shot I didn't like.

 
Mr. Soup Nazi said:
But it is a regular season award.  Was Smart not their best defender during the season?

These "Smart isn't the DPOY" takes seem to be affected by recency bias.
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I’d suggest that most people paying attention in the regular season thought Marcus as DPOY was a stretch.  IMO his defensive play has slipped the past couple years.  Wouldn’t have even put him 1st team this year.

 
Leeroy Jenkins said:
Except for the word "repeat" and I think we discount Klay still not being 100% himself and how important he is to the team.
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If you look back in the thread I actually said that about Klay, but if you think Klay will ever be 2015 to 2018 Klay then I believe you are in for a big surprise. Will he be better than this year? Probably, but prime Klay is gone and not coming back. 

 
Mr. Soup Nazi said:
But it is a regular season award.  Was Smart not their best defender during the season?

These "Smart isn't the DPOY" takes seem to be affected by recency bias.
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You must be new here, because around 11:30 eastern time last night Steph Curry became the best basketball player to play in the last 25ish years. 

 
Desert_Power said:
Where does Boston go from here? I'll be the first to admit I got them completely wrong coming into the season.
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mostly just grow. actually,, i'd rather have them stay humble and not grow than have their egos grow with their maturity. when this team was about shots, stops & steals, they could beat anybody. this post is gonna make it seem like i'm up the DPOY's butt, but this was Maaaacus Smaaaat's first year with the ball. been watching him for eight years now and he's never stopped getting better and i dont expect that to change.

hopefully Stevens & Udoka have a good relationship, because the coach has stuff to learn. the heart & mind is there, Stevens can help him refine the gamesense. Stevens never used skills gurus, dunno if Udoka will. The ethos of the last decade has been, "you work on your game, we'll figure out how to integrate it". neither of the Jays would have progressed as far any other way. would like to see White get off the set shot, but dont expect him to. his comfort level seems to be the biggest indicator of his game and will increase starting the season with the team. i would like to see the Celts get away from 8Mile as PG3. They have an Israeli PG stashed who made 45% of his treys last yr tho drafted for his athleticism. We could even bring the Leprechaun back now that they've done enough not to be upstaged by the memory. But i dont expect any major personnel activity. A savvy team exposed the Celtics inexperience when they had to scramble to cover for a leader with a bum wing. no regrets - nufced

ETA: if i could make one reasonable move, it would be replacing Pritchard with Monte Morris

ShamrockPride said:
Also, can we retroactively give Robert Williams the DPOY? I mean it couldn't have been more obvious in the Finals.
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most amazing, handsdown. As Timelord's OG hypeman on these boards, i dont have to say anything more on that account. but Robbie cant rebound nor body up. he also hasnt learned a damn thing in three years a Celt. never seen a big with this combo of eye & hops, but he aint never gonna be a soldier - the first element in being a great defensive player. have said all i have to say on the DPOY - y'all be trippin'

 
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Alex P Keaton said:
Let’s be honest here:

- LeBron wasn’t the MVP his first Miami year.  Wade was.

- Iggy wasn’t the MVP in 2015.  Steph clearly was.

- it should be 3-2 in mvps 

LeBron is still better all time though, by a measurable margin
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I agree that Curry should’ve been the 2015 finals mvp. Disagree about 2012. James was easily the mvp of that series. 

Leeroy Jenkins said:
Shooting overall.  Not just 3s.  Leadership.  GM skills.  I would say IQ is equal.  Titles is equal.  Lebron is a physical freak of nature.  Curry changed the game stylistically.  
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James changed the sport stylistically. Players are far more mobile now. Not sure that is better for the sport, just like more 3 point shooting isn’t, but it’s not Curry’s fault that everyone thinks they can hit 3s from anywhere now. 

 
identikit said:
They need a better bench, for one

Ball-handling drills, lots of them

More of a point guard would help imo...maybe develop White?
Click to expand...


Hopefully they get Beal in FA so the Wizards don't pay him.  Can't imagine he takes his players option.  

That would give them 7-10 more turnovers a game.  He and Tatum can try for 200 in next years postseason

 
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More interesting than who is “better” IMO is just looking at how much each of them changed the game. LeBron has had an enormous impact on the business side of the game, one of the biggest impacts ever. While Curry has had an enormous impact on how the game is played on the court, way more than LeBron IMO.

That doesn’t mean that Curry is a better player than LeBron, but he single-handedly (IMO) changed how the game is played today.

 
BroncoFreak_2K3 said:
I've watched him since HS here in Michigan. He has always played with a chip on his shoulder, which is why he was a perfect fit on an Izzo-coached MSU team. Total Warrior mentality and huge competitor, and leadership qualities throughout his entire career since his HS days, into college, and now the pros. Probably one of the most generous persons around as well. I love him. Go Green Go 'Dubs
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To be fair, you kind of have to have a chip on your shoulder if you're going to play PF/C at 6'6

 
Capella said:
Lebron has the second highest PER of all-time,  a shade beneath MJ. Curry is 20th. Objectively, it’s not even close. 
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You are conflating the things I am talking about.  Lebron is top 3-5 all-time.  Curry is not.  But they are totally different types of players and Curry has been equally dominant as Lebron in the era -- rings don't lie.

 
BassNBrew said:
Everyone thinks Green is an ### but while everyone was celebrating he was spending a minute hugging and talking with the Celtic stars.  Props to him, we saw his true colors n
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Draymond is a fascinating individual. 

 
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