2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

[Gottabesweet]

I have been a football fan nearly all my life. A fantasy football fanatic for 20+ of those years until 2 years ago.  I've rooted for and against many teams at different times for various reasons and I've enjoyed the sport more hours than I'll ever put into most other things in my life.

That game last night might be "The night football died" for me.  I'm a realist.  I know there will be no call from Mr. Goodwill saying "please don't go, Mr. shutout. What can we do to make it better?". I know most people reading this right now won't care one bit (nor should you), but I wanted to mention it because I want to say I sympathize for the Bills fans.  I know you expected and needed more in that game.  It was an important watershed moment opportunity and it failed to deliver.  Very disappointing. 

But as I watched last night, I don't think I've ever been more disappointed/let down in the game, in general.  It seemed As if all the things that we read people writing about that they say is hurting (killing?) the game reared its ugly head last night.  All the warning signs we discuss. All the injuries that we cry about because it impacts a ppr league and, oh by the way, is literally crippling and damaging these men.  The bad refs, the commercials, the political undercurrents and overtones.  It was all there last night in ugly fashion and so I watched, said I'd sleep on it, and I did.

This morning, I'm here to say it's broken. It's not going to be better.  Ever.  The gambling angle might be enough glue for some.  It always will.  After all, people still "Bet on the ponies" here and there.  But the great run is over. I don't know how to take that first step into the unknown dark but I'm sure it will be fine.  Here's to find ding the next great thing.

I get what you are saying and agree with some points.  Tony Romo saved a little bit for me.  You can genuinely see his excitement to predict plays and doesn't hold back on anything.  Nantz is another story, I can't stand him, his snarky comments and ego just ruin it.  Thursday football is terrible, everything is on display.  Jerome Booger and his crew were clueless on occasion, Many times the game was slowed down while the refs could spot the ball.  And one point NY had to radio down saying the refs missed the spot of the hold by 4 yards! 

Not saying it makes any difference but the trade deadline on a week where both teams have a Thursday night games did no favors.  Maybe push it back 2 weeks when Bye's are done.

It's frustrating,  We got rolled, traveled on a short week but have won there before on TNF. 

 

[OC Zed]

The most troubling thing from last night was how both lines were absolutely manhandled by the Jets.  There is a lot of age and ineffectiveness on both lines... they will need to be reworked significantly next year if this team wants to be competitive.  

 

[Gottabesweet]

The most troubling thing from last night was how both lines were absolutely manhandled by the Jets.  There is a lot of age and ineffectiveness on both lines... they will need to be reworked significantly next year if this team wants to be competitive.  

When your only pass rush all night was Cederic Thorton it's telling.  Incognito injury must be bad as well.  Cordy Glenn was worked by Ealy.  Duccasse had trouble with Wilkerson but nobody helped him.

Kyle Williams has hit a wall.  Dareus albeit not many snaps plugged up a hole.  Made Matt Forte look 24.

 

[Tommy Collins]

The most troubling thing from last night was how both lines were absolutely manhandled by the Jets.  There is a lot of age and ineffectiveness on both lines... they will need to be reworked significantly next year if this team wants to be competitive.  

I expected this with Rex. But how can your team be this flat/unprepared? We're 1-3 on the road. I never understood home/away splits. There has to be a preparation/routine change that plays a role into things.

 

[IvanKaramazov]

I agree with shutout that Thursday Night Football sucks.  This needs to go.

That said, I am still gutted by how horribly the Bills were outplayed.  As others have said, neither line showed up.  Not sure how that happens, but the short week certainly doesn't help.

 

[need2know]

Damn you bills.  I had high confidence and dollars on ya that you could beat those nasty jets.  I had tyrod going which helps, but you have disappointed me

 

[-OZ-]

I agree with shutout that Thursday Night Football sucks.  This needs to go.

That said, I am still gutted by how horribly the Bills were outplayed.  As others have said, neither line showed up.  Not sure how that happens, but the short week certainly doesn't help.

I'm not going to disagree with fans who dislike TNF, but Richie incognito is a punk.

 

[flysack]

The most troubling thing from last night was how both lines were absolutely manhandled by the Jets.  There is a lot of age and ineffectiveness on both lines... they will need to be reworked significantly next year if this team wants to be competitive.  

WHY IS JORDAN MILLS STILL A STARTING OT? 

When he wasn't being driven back into Tyrod's face, then he was whiffing on blocks and letting people get an open shot on Tyrod.

 

[flysack]

I'm not going to disagree with fans who dislike TNF, but Richie incognito is a punk.

I was a huge critic of Buffalo signing him after that racist Miami stuff, but to his credit he has cleaned up his act and from all accounts, has turned himself into a model teammate respected by everyone at One Bills Drive. 

This is America. Every man deserves a chance for redemption imo.

 

[flysack]

In those two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders I hope they find an OT, MLB, RB, and/or if they see an Andrew Luck type QB, go get him. 

 

[-OZ-]

I was a huge critic of Buffalo signing him after that racist Miami stuff, but to his credit he has cleaned up his act and from all accounts, has turned himself into a model teammate respected by everyone at One Bills Drive. 

This is America. Every man deserves a chance for redemption imo.

Sure. But I'm referring to his comments about Thursday night football.

These Thursday night games — they suck," Incognito said. "They throw a wrench in our schedule. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have to do this. As physical as this game is, as much work and preparation that goes into this, to force us to play games on four-day weeks, it's completely unfair and bulls--t. The league makes money off it, and that's all they care about anyway."

 

[-OZ-]

In those two 1st rounders and two 2nd rounders I hope they find an OT, MLB, RB, and/or if they see an Andrew Luck type QB, go get him. 

While I'd almost never say to not draft an Andrew luck, the bills aren't going to get that with their pick and ty is good enough to win.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

While I'd almost never say to not draft an Andrew luck, the bills aren't going to get that with their pick and ty is good enough to win about 8-9 games per year.

Fixed

 

[flysack]

Sure. But I'm referring to his comments about Thursday night football.

These Thursday night games — they suck," Incognito said. "They throw a wrench in our schedule. It's absolutely ridiculous that we have to do this. As physical as this game is, as much work and preparation that goes into this, to force us to play games on four-day weeks, it's completely unfair and bulls--t. The league makes money off it, and that's all they care about anyway."

I agree with him.

 

[flysack]

While I'd almost never say to not draft an Andrew luck, the bills aren't going to get that with their pick and ty is good enough to win.

They have enough picks to move up though - again, if it's a can't miss, generational type of QB (ala. Luck, Manning, etc.)

 

[-OZ-]

I agree with him.

Honestly I see his point of view but it's the way he says it. He sounds like a spoiled entitled jackass.  

Fixed

I disagree. He's not among the elite few who will put the team on his back like Rodgers or Brady. But he's fully capable of winning a ring with the right team. Similar to Matt Ryan or others.

Of course the chiefs have a guy like that and drafted Mahones, but ty is only 28. I just see other areas of need than to trade up with as much as it would take to get one of the top guns this year.

 

[-OZ-]

They have enough picks to move up though - again, if it's a can't miss, generational type of QB (ala. Luck, Manning, etc.)

Would the 23rd and 31st picks be enough to move up to the top 6ish?

I mean if a guy falls to their pick I can see it but I wouldn't trade up at the usual rates.

 

[humpback]

Would the 23rd and 31st picks be enough to move up to the top 6ish?

I mean if a guy falls to their pick I can see it but I wouldn't trade up at the usual rates.

They're much more likely to be picking somewhere in the teens than 23rd IMO, and besides the Chiefs #1 they have 2 2nds and 2 3rds this year- they'll have the ammo if there's a guy they want. I just don't think Tyrod is the answer.

 

[OC Zed]

They have enough picks to move up though - again, if it's a can't miss, generational type of QB (ala. Luck, Manning, etc.)

That guy isn't in this draft.  

 

[-OZ-]

They're much more likely to be picking somewhere in the teens than 23rd IMO, and besides the Chiefs #1 they have 2 2nds and 2 3rds this year- they'll have the ammo if there's a guy they want. I just don't think Tyrod is the answer.

Think so? Patriots twice and chiefs will be very tough, saints is winnable, chargers colts and fins twice seem like they should be wins. That's 10-6. Probably after pick 20, I think. 

Either way they're extremely unlikely to trade up or find a sure thing QB available.

 

[humpback]

Think so? Patriots twice and chiefs will be very tough, saints is winnable, chargers colts and fins twice seem like they should be wins. That's 10-6. Probably after pick 20, I think. 

Either way they're extremely unlikely to trade up or find a sure thing QB available.

The NFL is so unpredictable this year, it's pretty futile to go game by game to try and predict W/L, but did you see them play Thursday night? They got destroyed by the Jets, so while that doesn't mean those games aren't "winnable", it's hard to have much confidence that they will. I wouldn't say any road game "should be" a win, so the Chargers and 1 of the Dolphins games are both toss ups IMO. 9-7 is my guess, but I think 8-8 is more likely than 10-6.

There really are no "sure thing" QBs IMO, but if there's a guy they want, they absolutely have enough ammo to get them if they choose (even if they are picking in the 20's, which I doubt). 2 #1's, 2 #2's, 2 #3's, future #1's, etc. Heck, just look at last year's deal they made with the Chiefs- they moved up to #10 for the #27, a 3rd and this year's #1. The Bills will have way more than that available to deal...

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

9-7 is my guess, but I think 8-8 is more likely than 10-6.

Going into the Jets game I was thinking 10-6, hesitantly. (That would mean 4 wins in the final 8 games.) But now, I'm thinking 8-8. (3 wins in the final 8 games.)

You just can't win consistently in today's NFL unless you can pass the ball. A decent D, or a good running game, or some turnovers will win some games here and there, but not enough.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

they absolutely have enough ammo to get them if they choose. 2 #1's, 2 #2's, 2 #3's, future #1's...

I've kind of lost track. Do the Bills still have 2 3rd round picks? They dealt one for KBenj. Do they still have 2? I thought they had 2 before that trade.

 

[shadrap]

Going into the Jets game I was thinking 10-6, hesitantly. (That would mean 4 wins in the final 8 games.) But now, I'm thinking 8-8. (3 wins in the final 8 games.)

You just can't win consistently in today's NFL unless you can pass the ball. A decent D, or a good running game, or some turnovers will win some games here and there, but not enough.

would be nice to see some continuity between the QB & the WRs but injuries have prevented that.  If Taylor could develop some chemistry in practice I think that would go a long way to winning.  IMO

 

[humpback]

I've kind of lost track. Do the Bills still have 2 3rd round picks? They dealt one for KBenj. Do they still have 2? I thought they had 2 before that trade.

You are correct, they only have 1 3rd after the KB trade.

 

[humpback]

Going into the Jets game I was thinking 10-6, hesitantly. (That would mean 4 wins in the final 8 games.) But now, I'm thinking 8-8. (3 wins in the final 8 games.)

You just can't win consistently in today's NFL unless you can pass the ball. A decent D, or a good running game, or some turnovers will win some games here and there, but not enough.

Yeah, sounds about right.

 

[Dr. Octopus]

I agree with shutout that Thursday Night Football sucks.  This needs to go.

That said, I am still gutted by how horribly the Bills were outplayed.  As others have said, neither line showed up.  Not sure how that happens, but the short week certainly doesn't help.

This season most of the Thursday Night games have been very good. I agree generally but this week was one of the few stinkers (well for one team) so far this season. Take a look back at the Thursday Night results and it was filled with close exciting games with a few exceptions.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Cordy Glenn out. Zay Jones out. Charles Clay questionable. EJ Gaines questionable. Seantrel Henderson questionable.

Bills will be at .500 after this week. They didn't have much depth to begin with and it keeps getting worse and worse.

It really sucks that Zay Jones was starting to get going only to get hurt. Typical Bills luck.

 

[Gottabesweet]

Cordy Glenn out. Zay Jones out. Charles Clay questionable. EJ Gaines questionable. Seantrel Henderson questionable.

Bills will be at .500 after this week. They didn't have much depth to begin with and it keeps getting worse and worse.

It really sucks that Zay Jones was starting to get going only to get hurt. Typical Bills luck.

They'll be 5-4 if the lose Sunday.  

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

They'll be 5-4 if the lose Sunday.  

Don't underestimate the Bills.

 

[GroveDiesel]

They'll be 5-4 if the lose Sunday.  

Sheesh. That Jets loss just feels so much worse than just 1 loss.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

Don't underestimate the Bills.

Thanks for the 'like' flysack. I thought the insinuation that the Bills could lose two games in one week was at least mildly funny.

Anyway, are we in tank mode? Going into the season I was hoping they'd finish with no more than 3-4 wins. But after the hot start, I was on the bandwagon. The Jets loss killed it all for me. They can't possibly win 5 of these last 8 games to make the playoffs, right? So... Let's go 0-8 in the second half!

 

[IvanKaramazov]

They had 10 days to rebound from a horrible performance, and this is what they came up with.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

They had 10 days to rebound from a horrible performance, and this is what they came up with.

Yup. I knew I'd be regretting all those early season wins. I had such a hard time getting excited over any of them. This team will be lucky to get to 7 wins at this point. Another lost season, and one where I think most of us expected a pretty good draft pick next year. Yet, it's going to be another 15-20 pick. If it weren't for all the luck early on they could have finished with a top 6-8 pick. Alas, it's another season wthout a shot at a top QB in the draft.

That said, I think it's about time to bench Tyrod and see what Peterman's got for at least a few games. I'm sure it's probably nothing, but let's find out now...

 

[The Duff Man]

Tyrod is like a poker player that never bluffs. 

If you never get called....you aren't bluffing enough and leaving money on the table. 

If you are throwing so few interceptions, you aren't trying hard enough to put it up and let your WR make plays....and leaving yards and points on the table. 

Cant win consistently in the NFL when you are scared to make a mistake. 

 

[humpback]

Yup. I knew I'd be regretting all those early season wins. I had such a hard time getting excited over any of them. This team will be lucky to get to 7 wins at this point. Another lost season, and one where I think most of us expected a pretty good draft pick next year. Yet, it's going to be another 15-20 pick. If it weren't for all the luck early on they could have finished with a top 6-8 pick. Alas, it's another season wthout a shot at a top QB in the draft.

That said, I think it's about time to bench Tyrod and see what Peterman's got for at least a few games. I'm sure it's probably nothing, but let's find out now...

This is pretty much spot on, although they'll still have a shot at a top QB in the draft via trade if they want to take it.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

This is pretty much spot on, although they'll still have a shot at a top QB in the draft via trade if they want to take it.

Yes, they will. But, they have lots of other holes, and giving up picks to go after a QB will hurt in that regard. I guess I don't mind it. I really think you need to land a QB, and then build around him, but it would have been nice if they didn't have to give up a ton of these picks they've acquired to get the QB.

That said, this QB class is looking a lot less "special" than it was 6 months ago, so who knows how it will all pan out...

 

[humpback]

Yes, they will. But, they have lots of other holes, and giving up picks to go after a QB will hurt in that regard. I guess I don't mind it. I really think you need to land a QB, and then build around him, but it would have been nice if they didn't have to give up a ton of these picks they've acquired to get the QB.

That said, this QB class is looking a lot less "special" than it was 6 months ago, so who knows how it will all pan out...

Right, I just meant that it's still an option if they see someone they like. Of course, it's going to cost them more since they won those early games.

One way or another, they need to address the QB position. Nothing else really matters until they get that figured out, and hopefully they've figured out that Tyrod isn't the answer.

 

[shadrap]

nice defense this week.    sheeeeeessss.

 

[Gottabesweet]

So many teams with 6 L's. Balt, Oakland, Miami with 5.  Rest with 6+

Maybe we'll get lucky and Rivers won't play. Doubt it though.  Randomly on concussion protocol.  No real injury history.  Nobody knows what hit caused it.  

Plus theres a Phillip Rivers is terrible thread on page one.  Just means the reverse will happen for a few weeks. 

 

[need2know]

WTH happened to the defense?  Specifically the run def?

 

[Gottabesweet]

WTH happened to the defense?  Specifically the run def?

Kyle Williams is old and vastly overrated the last 3-4 years.  The All-22 will show him diving into mid air multiple times because he couldn't get any push so just abandoned.  The rotation isn't as strong without Dareus.  Dareus did play limited snaps but he plugged a hole and allowed the LB's to tackle and the other DT's to make a play.  The LB's are slow and finally being exposed.  I'm surprised it took this long.  I'd rather see Milano get some snaps, at least we know he's a McDermott guy.  Our secondary goes for the strip any chance they get, but at some point when a 230 pound RB is running downhill untouched play after play, they just didn't want to take that on.  I don't blame them.

I feel like next year we may have 2-3 new starting LB's and the overhaul we saw in the secondary this offseason will be the LB's next year.  One grouping at a time.

 

[Tommy Collins]

Kyle Williams is old and vastly overrated the last 3-4 years.  The All-22 will show him diving into mid air multiple times because he couldn't get any push so just abandoned.  The rotation isn't as strong without Dareus.  Dareus did play limited snaps but he plugged a hole and allowed the LB's to tackle and the other DT's to make a play.  The LB's are slow and finally being exposed.  I'm surprised it took this long.  I'd rather see Milano get some snaps, at least we know he's a McDermott guy.  Our secondary goes for the strip any chance they get, but at some point when a 230 pound RB is running downhill untouched play after play, they just didn't want to take that on.  I don't blame them.

I feel like next year we may have 2-3 new starting LB's and the overhaul we saw in the secondary this offseason will be the LB's next year.  One grouping at a time.

We are ranked 32nd in pass rush this year. 32nd. Shaq Lawson does well in the run game (at least he was) but isn't much of a pass rusher. I could see them rebooting the entire front 7. Hughes is our best pass rusher but his antics are probably going to cost him his job eventually. Kyle is likely to retire. Alexander is old. Preston Brown hasn't done much. The only solid part of our defense is our secondary with Hyde, Poyer, White and Gaines. If they don't keep Gaines, that's another spot to replace. And this is just the defense. We need a bunch of positions on offense as well. 

This team, right now, is what we thought it would be going into the season. I can't say I'm surprised with what's happening right now and don't see an end in sight. I just hope they don't win meaningless games to screw up their draft position like they do every year.

 

[GroveDiesel]

I'm speechless. I don't think it's a surprise that Peterman fits the offense that Dennison is running better than Taylor, but making the switch now is petty stunning. And, for all his faults, I think it's extremely poor coaching to force a system on a QB when that system clearly doesn't fit him. There are things that Tyrod does do very very well and that you can build an offense around. To force a QB to do things he is not good at is foolish and a sign of bad coaching.

Here's hoping Peterman can actually play.

ETA: I'm more frustrated by this the more I think about it. Same OL, same QB, same RB, same TE last year and the Bills lead the league in rushing and in scoring (through Week 16) last year. We've watched Dennison do all sorts of inexplicable things like force a blocking scheme on personnel it doesn't fit well when most of them played great last year, stretch runs to the outside with Tolbert over and over, and then pretty much everything he was doing with Tyrod.

In the NFL, if you are a coach and only have one way of doing things and can't adjust to the talent you have, then you aren't a good coach and don't belong in the NFL. The offensive woes are much more on Dennison than Tyrod.

 

[Grigs Allmoon]

There are things that Tyrod does do very very well and that you can build an offense around. To force a QB to do things he is not good at is foolish and a sign of bad coaching.

Totally disagree. Tyrod's skill set is just too limited to lead a team. As soon as you fall behind you are done. The guy simply can't deliver the ball to WRs.

 

[GroveDiesel]

Totally disagree. Tyrod's skill set is just too limited to lead a team. As soon as you fall behind you are done. The guy simply can't deliver the ball to WRs.

That's largely true. But if you have a good defense, he's exactly the type of QB that won't put your team behind either. The Bills were the #1 scoring team in the NFL last year through Week 16. Taylor was a large reason for that last year. He also has the lowest turnover percentage of any QB in NFL history. Yes, that is at the expense of taking chances more, but there's no denying that in a close game, turnovers are often the difference.

And I'll disagree that he can't deliver the ball to WRs. He did just fine when his receivers were healthy and he was moved out of the pocket more. Out of all of his time in Buffalo, how often did he have his top receiving options healthy? Sammy was rarely healthy. Woods was hurt quite a bit. Goodwin was always hurt. Clay spent a lot of time dinged up. Mathews has been hurt all year. Clay has been hurt most of the year. Holmes was hurt. Jones got hurt. 

Yes, Tyrod is not great throwing over the middle due to height. Yes, Tyrod often holds onto the ball too long and doesn't throw guys open often. But when Sammy and Goodwin were actually healthy, Tyrod made quite a few beautiful deep throws downfield to those guys.

I really hope that the Bills can find their QB of the future soon. Because I don't think it's Peterman and you can do a lot worse than Taylor. A lot worse.

 

[humpback]

I'm guessing they're doing it for very different reasons, but I have no problem with this move. If you can put a 2000 Ravens team behind Tyrod he can win a championship, but that doesn't happen in today's NFL. It's a QB league now, and he's simply not a good enough QB to build and sustain a good offense around IMO. Peterman likely isn't either, but might as well try to find out.

 

[Tommy Collins]

In the NFL, if you are a coach and only have one way of doing things and can't adjust to the talent you have, then you aren't a good coach and don't belong in the NFL. The offensive woes are much more on Dennison than Tyrod.

I agree with this part and have been saying it for years. We have been experiencing this every single coaching change. We've switched to a 4-3 and back to a 3-4 multiple times and it seems that almost every HC change has resulted in that. When Rex takes over a top 10 defense and has to run his 3-4, my immediate thought was why? If he's this defensive genius that he markets himself to be, why can't he run a 4-3 defense and take advantage of what he has? Instead he blows the defense up. 

The same goes for Dennis. We were a top rushing attack in 2015 & 2016. In comes Rick Dennison with his zone blocking scheme and our OL is awful. We were never a top pass blocking OL, but we had some good running holes. Those are now gone. 

I do like Beane and McDermott so far. But the Dennison choice was a mistake IMO and I hope that McDermott shows this off-season that he's not willing to accept mediocrity and make a switch at OC, just like he didn't hesitate to make a switch at QB mid-season. I'm actually very happy they made the move. I've seen enough of Tyrod to know we aren't going to get very far with him due to his limitations. He needs a complete team around him to be successful, and when have we ever had that? Either we have a run game or a defense, but never both at the same time. 

Dennison surely needs to go this off-season. We have so many holes to fill this off-season. RG and RT were in need of an upgrade all along, but to replace LT, LG and C because Dennison's scheme doesn't fit the players is foolish. Why choose him to be the OC then? Scheme should never be prioritized over players. The best coaches can adapt and utilize their skillset. When is the last time you saw Belichick force someone out because he didn't fit a scheme? He's the master at finding pro talent that isn't being properly utilized and taking advantage of it.

Like the move or hate it, McDermott showed some balls with this move. At 5-4, most HCs would have stayed the course until the season was lost before going to the rookie. I've been done with TT for a long time and wanted to see Peterman. I'm glad they made the move, but I was hoping I was wrong about TT as relying on a rookie with a tough upcoming schedule (west cost trip, KC, Pats x2) isn't usually the recipe for success.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

I'm speechless. I don't think it's a surprise that Peterman fits the offense that Dennison is running better than Taylor, but making the switch now is petty stunning. And, for all his faults, I think it's extremely poor coaching to force a system on a QB when that system clearly doesn't fit him. There are things that Tyrod does do very very well and that you can build an offense around. To force a QB to do things he is not good at is foolish and a sign of bad coaching.

Here's hoping Peterman can actually play.

ETA: I'm more frustrated by this the more I think about it. Same OL, same QB, same RB, same TE last year and the Bills lead the league in rushing and in scoring (through Week 16) last year. We've watched Dennison do all sorts of inexplicable things like force a blocking scheme on personnel it doesn't fit well when most of them played great last year, stretch runs to the outside with Tolbert over and over, and then pretty much everything he was doing with Tyrod.

In the NFL, if you are a coach and only have one way of doing things and can't adjust to the talent you have, then you aren't a good coach and don't belong in the NFL. The offensive woes are much more on Dennison than Tyrod.

Why are you stunned they been trying to tank...now they are doing it

 

[need2know]

Are they gonna bench the entire defense as well?   They were arguably worse than tyrod Sunday.