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2021 Buffalo Bills - Same as it ever was*** (2 Viewers)

Let's go full tank mode, who can they trade and still get decent value? 

Darius - big contract but Houston and Oakland stand out as teams that could use him to let their dogs on the outside get loose. Saints always need defense.

Shady - old but still has some value to a contender. GB, Det, NYG, Phi, Indy. 

Hughes - Might be able to pair him back up with Schwartz in Philly. Saints still always need defense. 

 
humpback said:
You're right, should have stuck with what got them nowhere the previous several years. :lmao:  at the notion that they were playoff contenders, just stop with that.
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They were 7-9 last year and lost multiple games in the final minutes.  The defense was a train wreck and almost certainly would have seen improvement with any other coaching staff.  Facts are facts.

 
Borden said:
Let's go full tank mode, who can they trade and still get decent value? 

Darius - big contract but Houston and Oakland stand out as teams that could use him to let their dogs on the outside get loose. Saints always need defense.

Shady - old but still has some value to a contender. GB, Det, NYG, Phi, Indy. 

Hughes - Might be able to pair him back up with Schwartz in Philly. Saints still always need defense. 
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No one will take on their contracts.  It's just not in the realm of possibility.  And not even the Bills can afford the cap hits by releasing them.  

 
OC Zed said:
They were 7-9 last year and lost multiple games in the final minutes.  The defense was a train wreck and almost certainly would have seen improvement with any other coaching staff.  Facts are facts.
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Here are the facts: they only lost 2 games in the final minutes (1 of them after only taking the lead themselves in the final minutes), they beat Cincinnati without AJ Green and NE with their injured 3rd string QB, and still only won 7 games and finished 3 out of the playoffs behind 4 other non-playoff teams. They also lost tons of talent prior to the purge and have a much tougher schedule this year, so it's a pipe dream to think had any realistic chance at the playoffs with a different rookie HC.

 
humpback said:
Here are the facts: they only lost 2 games in the final minutes (1 of them after only taking the lead themselves in the final minutes), they beat Cincinnati without AJ Green and NE with their injured 3rd string QB, and still only won 7 games and finished 3 out of the playoffs behind 4 other non-playoff teams. They also lost tons of talent prior to the purge and have a much tougher schedule this year, so it's a pipe dream to think had any realistic chance at the playoffs with a different rookie HC.
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It was actually 3 games (both Miami games and Seattle) lost in the final minutes and another 3 losses were within one touchdown or less.  But hey, 6 games don't mean much.  

 
OC Zed said:
It was actually 3 games (both Miami games and Seattle) lost in the final minutes and another 3 losses were within one touchdown or less.  But hey, 6 games don't mean much.  
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Yeah, about those "facts"- check the Seattle game again, they were behind in that one for the entire 4th quarter (plus some).

Last I checked, you win games by scoring more points than your opponent, not by losing late in the game or by 7 points or less. I'm pretty sure every team has some close games, but in your pretend world where the Bills were magically better than they were and won all of their "close" games they lost but no one else in the league did, sure, they may have made the playoffs.

 
humpback said:
Yeah, about those "facts"- check the Seattle game again, they were behind in that one for the entire 4th quarter (plus some).

Last I checked, you win games by scoring more points than your opponent, not by losing late in the game or by 7 points or less. I'm pretty sure every team has some close games, but in your pretend world where the Bills were magically better than they were and won all of their "close" games they lost but no one else in the league did, sure, they may have made the playoffs.
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If you watched the Seattle game, you saw that the Bills outplayed the Seahawks for long stretches in that game and lost on the final play (which included a questionable play be Richard Sherman).  And I'm also of the belief that a team can actually improve from one year to the next, so, yes, those close losses could have turned into wins this season.  

 
Not that it's that big of a deal, but Schefter just tweeted that Philly Brown will be waived today, too. WR is looking pretty thin (just in terms of bodies), now, too.

And, yes, put me in the "WTF" camp on the Williams release.

 
OC Zed said:
If you watched the Seattle game, you saw that the Bills outplayed the Seahawks for long stretches in that game and lost on the final play (which included a questionable play be Richard Sherman).  And I'm also of the belief that a team can actually improve from one year to the next, so, yes, those close losses could have turned into wins this season.  
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I watched the game, and while it's true that they could have won it, they most certainly did not lose it on the final play (they just didn't win it). I am of the belief that a team can actually improve from one year to the next as well, but did you know that it's also possible for a team to regress from one year to the next? Perhaps some of those close wins could have turned into losses this season? You keep discounting all of the talent they lost and their schedule. Like I said, there's a reason their over/under for wins was 6 prior to these moves.

Again, in your "perfect storm" world where everything that went wrong went right and nothing that went right went wrong, the Bills would be a better team and a playoff contender. In the real world, that just doesn't happen.

 
humpback said:
I watched the game, and while it's true that they could have won it, they most certainly did not lose it on the final play (they just didn't win it). I am of the belief that a team can actually improve from one year to the next as well, but did you know that it's also possible for a team to regress from one year to the next? Perhaps some of those close wins could have turned into losses this season? You keep discounting all of the talent they lost and their schedule. Like I said, there's a reason their over/under for wins was 6 prior to these moves.

Again, in your "perfect storm" world where everything that went wrong went right and nothing that went right went wrong, the Bills would be a better team and a playoff contender. In the real world, that just doesn't happen.
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I'm done debating with you.  No matter what anyone says in this thread, you disagree.  So be it.

 
Usually when you're rebuilding you try to keep your young cheap talent like Ronald Darby and J. Williams and get rid of the older guys with big contracts. 

The Bills have extended Wood and currently have the 3rd (probably 2nd or 1st after today) oldest team in the league.

Bold move Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.

 
Mr. Peterson said:
Wow.  Cutting Jonathan Williams makes no sense at all.  
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Any local guys know more about this?  I live across the country and Bills news is hard to come by.  This move makes no sense to me.  We now have a 32 year old fat tub of goo as our second string RB?  Do they really love former Panthers that much?  This move and the Darby move have made no sense to me.

 
As an outside observer I love the Bills' swag this offeseason. Maybe it's tanking but it seems just as much about new leadership coming in and shaping a team the way they want, building a professional culture, without caring what the media or conventional opinion thinks. Trading Sammy and going after Matthews is a good example, same with who they drafted this year. Solid, professional guys. Even this Williams cut decision - it seems odd to fantasy football players because he's been a hype sleeper this offseason, but most people wouldn't think twice about him if he wasn't Shady's handcuff - it was pure situation really...the hype was probably greater because we had barely seen him play and there's that lure of the unknown. He's a decent RB but it's clear now that the Bills think he's very replaceable. I don't know, I just like what they're doing. They have a bunch of picks this offseason - hopefully they take a couple of shots at a QB and they can turn this thing around relatively quickly.

 
RushHour said:
As an outside observer I love the Bills' swag this offeseason. Maybe it's tanking but it seems just as much about new leadership coming in and shaping a team the way they want, building a professional culture, without caring what the media or conventional opinion thinks. Trading Sammy and going after Matthews is a good example, same with who they drafted this year. Solid, professional guys. Even this Williams cut decision - it seems odd to fantasy football players because he's been a hype sleeper this offseason, but most people wouldn't think twice about him if he wasn't Shady's handcuff - it was pure situation really...the hype was probably greater because we had barely seen him play and there's that lure of the unknown. He's a decent RB but it's clear now that the Bills think he's very replaceable. I don't know, I just like what they're doing. They have a bunch of picks this offseason - hopefully they take a couple of shots at a QB and they can turn this thing around relatively quickly.
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I don't think anything is clear right now about cutting Williams. At first glance it just doesn't make any sense. There was positive evaluations about him during the predraft process and I thought he looked really good when he played. It wasn't just that he was Shadys backup, he looked like a promising young runner.

I'm local but haven't heard anything (found out just now) but there has to be more to this. I have zero vested interest in him nor am I a Bills fan despite being local, but I always thought he was a potential talent. I'm not getting the move personally. Seems like there must be extenuating circumstances. 

While not a Bills fan per se, I follow them fairly closely and root for them to have success. You can't help but wonder if they are in full tanking mode with a tangential goal of redoing the roster as they want it (building from the ground up so to speak). Or vice versa.

 
RushHour said:
As an outside observer I love the Bills' swag this offeseason. Maybe it's tanking but it seems just as much about new leadership coming in and shaping a team the way they want, building a professional culture, without caring what the media or conventional opinion thinks. Trading Sammy and going after Matthews is a good example, same with who they drafted this year. Solid, professional guys. Even this Williams cut decision - it seems odd to fantasy football players because he's been a hype sleeper this offseason, but most people wouldn't think twice about him if he wasn't Shady's handcuff - it was pure situation really...the hype was probably greater because we had barely seen him play and there's that lure of the unknown. He's a decent RB but it's clear now that the Bills think he's very replaceable. I don't know, I just like what they're doing. They have a bunch of picks this offseason - hopefully they take a couple of shots at a QB and they can turn this thing around relatively quickly.
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Theoretically, I like what the Bills are doing.  Burn it down, fill it in with players who will fit what you're going for, and rebuild.  My only concern is if they totally botch it.  Doug Whaley was a fresh face, hotshot prized young GM and seems to have been an utter failure in the long-term.  Brandon Beane could be the same.

That said, if you tank and rebuild and it fails, at least you tried something different.  I'm kinda sick of seeing this team win 6-7 games a season and just continue to miss the playoffs.  Swing for the fences.

 
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I don't like to fling mud, but Humpback is the fat ugly zit on an otherwise beautiful community here. Just skip his nonsense and be happier for it, guys.

 
Steve Tasker said:
Theoretically, I like what the Bills are doing.  Burn it down, fill it in with players who will fit what you're going for, and rebuild.  My only concern is if they totally botch it.  Doug Whaley was a fresh face, hotshot prized young GM and seems to have been an utter failure in the long-term.  Brandon Beane could be the same.

That said, if you tank and rebuild and it fails, at least you tried something different.  I'm kinda sick of seeing this team win 6-7 games a season and just continue to miss the playoffs.  Swing for the fences.
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I completely agree. It could fail spectacularly, but really, how's that any different than the last two decades?

For however long now they've mixed and matched pieces from different regimes and forced them to work together and try to get along, which rarely ends well. At least now they are all on the same page trying to build the team their way. Again, it may not work out, but it's the right approach at least.

 
flysack said:
I don't like to fling mud, but Humpback is the fat ugly zit on an otherwise beautiful community here. Just skip his nonsense and be happier for it, guys.
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:lmao:

Sorry for trying to inject a dose of reality in here. Back to your regularly scheduled THIS IS THE YEAR!$&@!!

 
Tyrod Taylor is still in concussion protocol and his status sounds questionable for this week...and the Bills are STILL 9.5 point favorites over the Jets.

The one thing I'm really concerned about with tanking, is that football isn't like the NBA where you can tank for one or two players and be an immediate contender. If you strip your entire team of talent, it's going to take a really long time to rebuild. Yes, a franchise QB goes a long way, but you have to have pieces around him. My biggest concern is that the O-line has serious issues and will likely have even more issues in the near future as Incognito and Wood continue to age and Glenn's health issues likely worsen. You just can't stick a QB prospect behind a crappy line and end up with good results. Way too many young QBs ruined that way.

 
At least the Bills finally got their heads straight and announced that John Miller is the starting RG. Very disappointing that they couldn't do better than Jordan Mills at RT. 

 
I like the Joe Webb signing. He outplayed Derek Anderson during the preseason. I was surprised the Panthers cut him. He is versatile as a QB, and is an asset on special teams. He also knows the HC from being on the Panthers the last few years.

 
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Grigs Allmoon said:
From the J Williams thread:

http://www.newyorkupstate.com/buffalo-bills/index.ssf/2017/09/sean_mcdermott_explains_why_buffalo_bills_cut_rb_jonathan_williams.html
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I pretty sure Pete Carroll and John Schneider did something similar in 2010 when they started with the Seahawks. 

Former Seahawks quarterback Matt Hasselbeck told ESPN that in 2010, on the first day of meetings, Carroll asked every player to stand up and choose a new seat for a fresh perspective on the season. One player didn't stand up, and according to Hasselbeck, "And he was gone a week later. Pete didn't care about the seats. He just wants to know who's with him."

As Bills fans, what do we have to lose by believing in McDermitt and his approach? Edit: This question isn't was necessarily directed at you. 

 
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"I think New England has better Buffalo players than Buffalo does."

- Chris Collinsworth.

It's telling that comments like these fail to affect me anymore. I just shrug and think well, it's kind of true.

 
flysack said:
"I think New England has better Buffalo players than Buffalo does."

- Chris Collinsworth.

It's telling that comments like these fail to affect me anymore. I just shrug and think well, it's kind of true.
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Yeah, Gillislee scoring 3 TDs in his NE debut = :sad:

On the other hand, Gilmore getting roasted on a deep ball for a long TD = :lmao:

 
I know it doesn't mean anything this early in the season - but I do find it funny that whoever wins the Bills/Jets game will be in 1st place in the AFC East.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Yeah, Gillislee scoring 3 TDs in his NE debut = :sad:

On the other hand, Gilmore getting roasted on a deep ball for a long TD = :lmao:
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They were three short yardage TD's.  He got stuffed on two 4th and 1's.  He'll be the goalline back and short yardage.  Billy will use him game by game. 

Gilmore was in zone coverage, along with the Butler, both passed off their WR's deep.  McCourtey bit on the slant, it was executed perfectly.  The only difference is Gilmore didn't turn around and blame his SS like he did in Buffalo.

If it makes us feel better then yes Gilmore, Hogan, and Gillislee all suck.

 
ScottNorwood said:
I know it doesn't mean anything this early in the season - but I do find it funny that whoever wins the Bills/Jets game will be in 1st place in the AFC East.
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I find it troubling that God chose to disrupt the Miami game while letting the Bills-Jets game proceed unmolested.  Seems kind of cruel in and Old Testament sort of way.

 
GroveDiesel said:
Also, Pats are the worst team in the league right now.

Flip side, that first round pick from the Chiefs isn't looking all that great after Week 1.
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True, they did lose Eric Berry however.  I'm hoping that division beats up on each other and the Chiefs miss out at 8-8. 

 
Grigs Allmoon said:
When is the last time the Bills were in sole possession of 1st place of the division this late in the season?
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Lol.

But the real answer is the year Fitzpatrick started lightning hot, the Bills beat the Pats, they gave a big extension to Fitzpatrick and everything went downhill from there.

 
My comments on the game:

  • Can't really complain about a win.  They did what they needed to do to beat a bad team.  I still suspect these two teams will be near the bottom of the NFL this season though.
  • I really don't get what the Bills were thinking in not having a single deep threat at WR.  Tyrod has established in the past two years that those are this throws, that's his strength, deep sideline routes.  The Bills have no one capable of stretching the field right now, and the Jets knew it, because they had 10 in the box repeatedly in the 2nd/3rd/4th quarter - I don't know if this was visible on the TV feed but it was blatant at the game.  It's also why, for example, Jordan Matthews was able to break that one long pass - he broke 1 tackle and the Jets had only 1 safety deep to help out.
  • I thought Tyrod had a pretty good game.  Did what was asked of him and ran the offense effectively, looked confident in the new system.  Good to see.  They didn't show the replay of the interception at the game - whose fault was it?  Bad throw?  Dropped pass?
  • McCoy certainly looks like he's still got some gas left in the tank.
  • The running game looked to be significantly more effective running off-tackle left behind Glenn/Dawkins and Incognito than off-tackle right behind Miller and Mills.  Not that this should be a surprise to any of us, but if I can notice it you'd better believe opposing teams will be keying on it in the coming weeks.  Force them to run to the right and let your DE/OLB overwhelm the right side of the line.
  • Not much to say on the defense, though I am a little disturbed at how little pass-rush the DL was able to generate.  The DL is supposed to be this team's #1 strength.  Dareus didn't seem to be doing much and I don't recall really hearing Shaq Lawson's name at all, though it's tough to really tell because a lot of what they do doesn't show up on the stat sheet.  I won't kill them because they were A+ at stopping the run.  But this Jets OL was supposedly pretty weak, and the Bills only mustered 1 sack (Jordan Poyer on a safety blitz) despite the fact that McCown dropped back to pass 40 times.
 
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Steve Tasker said:
They didn't show the replay of the interception at the game - whose fault was it?  Bad throw?  Dropped pass?
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The throw was high and went off the receiver's hands.  So I'd say it was partially Taylor's fault, but largely bad luck that it got re-directed straight to a defender.  Honestly, it was worth Taylor throwing that pick just for the comic relief of the ensuing return attempt.

 
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The secondary was really really good. Vastly improved. White, Gaines, Poyer and Hyde were all fantastic.

The LBers struggled in coverage. That's going to be a problem IMO.

The run defense was phenomenal, just like it was all preseason.

The pass rush wasn't there, but then again, the Jets were going with tons of quick short throws to neutralize the pass rush.

Dareus rotated out quite a bit. Interesting.

Miller was mediocre, Mills was terrible and the left side of the O-line was pretty good. Hard to believe they couldn't upgrade that RT spot. Miller may just not be a good fit in the zone blocking scheme.

The WRs just did not do a good job getting open. That's going to be a problem against better teams.

It was nice to see Taylor using the middle of the field and hitting Clay a bunch though. That will help against the box stacking a bit.

Taylor also went through his progression several times. That was nice to see. Still got spooked too easily a few times as well though. PFF had his accuracy percentage as the 5th highest so far in Week 1.

Shady is all sorts of ridiculously good. IMO, he's the best RB in the NFL right now.

It was nice to not see a ton of dumb penalties. Hopefully that problem has finally been fixed.

Next up, a much better team that Beane and McDermott know very very well.

 
I'm not expecting a win next week at Carolina - but I'll be disappointed if it's not a competitive game.  A coach should be able to game plan against his old team.  We might learn something about McDermott next week.

 
Pretty good article from Tim Rohan of SI. 

Last week he went to the Bills-Jets game at The Ralph (f@3k you whatever stupid corporate name they use now), wearing a Kaepernick 49ers jersey. He went with a buddy who's a long time Bills fan. His friend was convinced Rohan would end up in the fight with some drunks, but our guys were far cooler and nicer than either expected. They even visited the Bills Mafia tailgate and talked with a crazy old ex-Marine. They heard some FUs for sure, but nothing ever physical or threatening. Great article.

I Wore a Colin Kaepernick Jersey to an NFL Game.  

 
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