What's new
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums

Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.

2021 Cleveland Browns - (3 Viewers)

MAC_32

Footballguy
And at this rate, he isn’t getting the big money. From anyone. The question is simply what is he worth vs what you have to pay someone else. Many of those other names are likely to be worse for us. You didn’t forget our QB carousel before Baker already did you?
The Browns don't need to make a contract decision this winter. If he's inked this offseason (he won't) it'd be very team friendly. 

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Healthy Baker is a good qb. Injured Baker is not.
THIS and injuries have completely changed this season starting with the first game and how things changed on the O-Line. 

Our RT is a backup OG and he's not good causing all sorts pressure and he's the weakest link in run blocking.  Our LT has been gimpy since the first game and we lost our swing tackle for the year in the first game.  

The other issue is the  WRs were never healthy and just not  that good.

We see what the FO did by cutting OBJ and using that money to pay out two of the three highest OG salaries in the league.  THAT IS SIGNIFICANT since it tips the hand of the Browns analytic department that carefully sifts through every bit of information before making a move.  They told us the plan for the next couple of years.  

We CAN win with a healthy Baker Mayfield.  

I don't understand rolling him out yesterday.  After the game he didn't go to the podium and was 'reportedly' fuming at the end of the game.  He can't make the decision to play in a non-conference home game against a 0-fer team facing a 3rd string QB especially when the next two games are against the top team in the division.

Apparently the decision to start Baker was not just Stefanski or Baker, it was the entire organization.  I just don't get it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Pete Smith@_PeteSmith_

They see it. They know who he is. They admire his toughness. No one is happy with the product today, most of all Mayfield. Any number of players have been gutting it out through injury for this team this year.

Quote Tweet

DK Wolfe @FoodBevConcepts

I don’t think it’s necessarily a conspiracy. Kevin today categorized it as an organizational decision. I would agree with that, everyone from Baker, Berry and Depo should be involved. You can’t keep holding this team back though. Players watch the same A22.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
i think it's a given at this point that they pick up the fifth year option.

seems like both sides will agree 18million seems fair.

if he sucks again next year, they move on.

not sure when they have to commit to the option though.  they will probably be doing some sniffing around to see what their other options are.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

GroveDiesel

Footballguy
Apparently the decision to start Baker was not just Stefanski or Baker, it was the entire organization.  I just don't get it.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yeah, that just speaks poorly of the organization. Of course Mayfield wants to play. The organization has to protect him from himself and is negligent in not getting him healthy. They are worse off for the long haul this season and in the future by not just going to Keenum for however long it takes to get Mayfield 100%. And if that means shutting him down for the year, then shut him down for the year. They’re not a Super Bowl team this year anyway IMO.

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
Yeah, that just speaks poorly of the organization. Of course Mayfield wants to play. The organization has to protect him from himself and is negligent in not getting him healthy. They are worse off for the long haul this season and in the future by not just going to Keenum for however long it takes to get Mayfield 100%. And if that means shutting him down for the year, then shut him down for the year. They’re not a Super Bowl team this year anyway IMO.
Him being 100% again this season was off the table in the first half week 2.

 

beer 30

Footballguy
Yeah, that just speaks poorly of the organization. Of course Mayfield wants to play. The organization has to protect him from himself and is negligent in not getting him healthy. They are worse off for the long haul this season and in the future by not just going to Keenum for however long it takes to get Mayfield 100%. And if that means shutting him down for the year, then shut him down for the year. They’re not a Super Bowl team this year anyway IMO.
Not a fan of him but Grossi asked a pretty solid question during Stefanski's presser today. Who's call is it, ultimately, when it comes to pulling Baker off the field. Stefanski said it was him.

Ok, so make the ####### call. If you weren't going to do last week, you surely won't with the upcoming schedule unless the kid loses a limb on the field. I said it jokingly yesterday but the more I think about it, the more I see it. Stefanski is trying to end the Baker experiment so he can bring his guy in #HOTTAKE

 

amnesiac

beer is good
Stefanski is trying to end the Baker experiment so he can bring his guy in #HOTTAKE
that's the spirit!!

this thread is too mild, needs more spice!

seriously though, if they picked up the option, they are stuck with him one more year.

i don't think Stefanski wants Mayfield to fail.  if Mayfield fails, Stefanski fails, and they will both be shown the door.

when these coaches interview, the first question is "Can you win with our quarterback?"  if you say no, you don't get the job.

so Stefanski had already committed to Mayfield before he got the job.

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
then he needs to sit.
Don't disagree. Docs told him he needs to rest after the second shoulder injury. He didnt. Just saying assessing Baker the qb based on this play is bad process. Good argument that been the case since the first half of week 2.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
Don't disagree. Docs told him he needs to rest after the second shoulder injury. He didnt. Just saying assessing Baker the qb based on this play is bad process. Good argument that been the case since the first half of week 2.
i totally agree.

but him playing when he can't get it done is making it hard for me to root for him.

he's hurting the team.

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
i totally agree.

but him playing when he can't get it done is making it hard for me to root for him.

he's hurting the team.
I'm much less certain about that. Based on what we saw on the Thursday night game I don't think we have > 6 wins if Baker and the Browns opted for health. Just a different spin on a failed season. 

 

beer 30

Footballguy
that's the spirit!!

this thread is too mild, needs more spice!

seriously though, if they picked up the option, they are stuck with him one more year.

i don't think Stefanski wants Mayfield to fail.  if Mayfield fails, Stefanski fails, and they will both be shown the door.

when these coaches interview, the first question is "Can you win with our quarterback?"  if you say no, you don't get the job.

so Stefanski had already committed to Mayfield before he got the job.
Yea I agree, was tongue in cheek. Stefanski wouldn't have signed up if he didn't sign off on Baker too. They're a better team with Baker than without, no question. He needs time off, we've all been saying it for a while, if you weren't going to do it against 0-8-1 team, you're not going to do it.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
We're not going back to the musical QB jersey.

Its Baker and will continue to be Baker.

The plan is:

  • Heavily stacked offensive line (check but depth strained with injuries)
  • Top notch RBs (check deep enough to deal with injuries)
  • Deep TE group (check, happy with TEs)
  • Solid defense (in progress but obvious improvement from last year)
  • Serviceable QB (obviously injured)
  • Good special teams (impressed with improvement especially kick coverage)
We're much better than people realize as the picture is clouded not just with injuries but the timing at key positions.

 

Bobcat10

Footballguy
I hope this isnt part of the thought process of our front office.

I say he can play out year 5  then franchise him if he actually plays well.  I dont think he will play well though.
Of course it’s not part of their process. I was replying to what you said. You just can’t flip a switch and get a better QB overnight in this league. Sorta like “be careful what you wish for”.

 
Last edited by a moderator:

Bobcat10

Footballguy
The bull#### is this…telling everyone Baker had “no restrictions” going into the game last night (and probably previous weeks).

We’re not stupid people. We have NOT run the same offense the past few weeks, maybe months, that we ran last year and earlier this season. This cannot be contested.

Baker even aggravated his heel just running on his first scramble last night. 

 

amnesiac

beer is good
The bull#### is this…telling everyone Baker had “no restrictions” going into the game last night (and probably previous weeks).

We’re not stupid people. We have NOT run the same offense the past few weeks, maybe months, that we ran last year and earlier this season. This cannot be contested.

Baker even aggravated his heel just running on his first scramble last night. 
I gave up on the “let’s see if he can work through this” weeks ago.  
 

the Lions game was the last straw.  
 

if your 6mil backup QB can’t beat the 0-8-1 Lions go ahead and cut him.  
 

starting to lose respect for Stefanski at this point. 

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
Last night was a comedy of errors by this group of pass catchers. I get why fingers are being pointed at Baker, today but I think those making that criticism are dead wrong. A lot of reasons for yesterday's loss, but he's not one of the primary ones. May be some misreads we can't see on tv, but one bad throw and one embarrassing fumble was all I counted. Six (plus?) drops, Hance and a gimpy Willis playing ole, and route runners that could not get open against a hobbled secondary playing man and sold out to stop the run. That was the story of last night's failure. More of those to come too.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
MAC_32 said:
Last night was a comedy of errors by this group of pass catchers. I get why fingers are being pointed at Baker, today but I think those making that criticism are dead wrong. A lot of reasons for yesterday's loss, but he's not one of the primary ones. May be some misreads we can't see on tv, but one bad throw and one embarrassing fumble was all I counted. Six (plus?) drops, Hance and a gimpy Willis playing ole, and route runners that could not get open against a hobbled secondary playing man and sold out to stop the run. That was the story of last night's failure. More of those to come too.
He's injured and that is affecting his decisions.

Here is a take based soley on those poor decisions without ANY injury context which is not fair IMHO.

Q makes a great case of Baker making poor decisions while completely dismissing how injuries can be influencing his poor decisions.

Even though this isn't fair I find it difficult to give him a pass on the Raven game since the defense gave him 4 turnovers and he got 3 points.  Defenses don't respect him and are stacking the box daring him to beat them with the pass and he's not doing it.  

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAKER MAYFIELD (FILM BREAKDOWN)

 

MAC_32

Footballguy
He's injured and that is affecting his decisions.

Here is a take based soley on those poor decisions without ANY injury context which is not fair IMHO.

Q makes a great case of Baker making poor decisions while completely dismissing how injuries can be influencing his poor decisions.

Even though this isn't fair I find it difficult to give him a pass on the Raven game since the defense gave him 4 turnovers and he got 3 points.  Defenses don't respect him and are stacking the box daring him to beat them with the pass and he's not doing it.  

WHAT'S WRONG WITH BAKER MAYFIELD (FILM BREAKDOWN)
Contextualizing 3 points on 4 int's

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
I caught that and was going to share the same video.

The issue with any MMQBing is context.  To truly judge we'd have to literally break down every QB, every throw, know routes/timing/reads/etc.  

One thing that hasn't been mentioned yet is our rookie WR Anthony Schwartz and the three times this season that Baker has got in his face screaming.  He's never done that AFIK with anyone else.  People that pointed this out said the kid is running the wrong routes.  Add, it should be noted Baker got his injury when Schwartz 'turtled' on a route when the safety was bearing-down on him on what 'should' have been a catch.  Instead it was an INT and a broken left shoulder for Baker so I can see how he'd have an issue with the rookie running the wrong routes.  

We see from the tape one of the reasons why Chubb isn't used 'as-much' as Hunt in the passing game.  

All that said, Quincy does make some good points on Baker not going deep into his reads and completely ignoring the backside of plays when guys are 'wide-open', something we've all seen.

To Kurt Warner's point, our WRs have had issues getting separation for two years.  We have not even bothered with Higgins because he's nothing without OBJ taking coverage away from his side of the field.  We have nobody in the WR room that creates fear, nobody.

 

beer 30

Footballguy
To Kurt Warner's point, our WRs have had issues getting separation for two years.  We have not even bothered with Higgins because he's nothing without OBJ taking coverage away from his side of the field.  We have nobody in the WR room that creates fear, nobody.
Speaking of Higgins, what's the backstory on what's going on with him now? Heard he's in the doghouse again but no details. Kinda feel like that's run it's course under three different regimes. 

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
Speaking of Higgins, what's the backstory on what's going on with him now? Heard he's in the doghouse again but no details. Kinda feel like that's run it's course under three different regimes. 
We never hear of direct coach/player discipline but the MO with Higgins is he eventually winds up in the coaching doghouse.

First time we assume coaches fault,

Second time, he still give him benefit of doubt.

Third time?  Have to believe its a 'Higgins' issue.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
We never hear of direct coach/player discipline but the MO with Higgins is he eventually winds up in the coaching doghouse.

First time we assume coaches fault,

Second time, he still give him benefit of doubt.

Third time?  Have to believe its a 'Higgins' issue.
you're probably right.

seems weird that Baker likes him so much, but the coaches don't seem to agree.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
dang it.  i said i wasn't going to get my hopes up anymore this season.

but looking at the schedule...

TWO Saturday games (including Christmas Day) AND a Monday night game.

this thing is set up for a dramatic comeback by the Browns over the last 5 weeks on PRIME TIME.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
dang it.  i said i wasn't going to get my hopes up anymore this season.

but looking at the schedule...

TWO Saturday games (including Christmas Day) AND a Monday night game.

this thing is set up for a dramatic comeback by the Browns over the last 5 weeks on PRIME TIME.
Sobering stat to keep yer hopes in check.

Over the last 6 games the Browns have scored 0 points in the fourth quarter.

ZERO!

We've only scored 3 TDs in the second half of the last six games with Baker Mayfield throwing 1 TD.

The last game against the Ravens our defense got 4 turnovers and our offense was only able to get 3 points out of it.  I doubt we get 4 turnovers Sunday and I've got no reason to get my hopes up that we'll be able to score in the fourth quarter if we fall behind.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
Sobering stat to keep yer hopes in check.

Over the last 6 games the Browns have scored 0 points in the fourth quarter.

ZERO!

We've only scored 3 TDs in the second half of the last six games with Baker Mayfield throwing 1 TD.

The last game against the Ravens our defense got 4 turnovers and our offense was only able to get 3 points out of it.  I doubt we get 4 turnovers Sunday and I've got no reason to get my hopes up that we'll be able to score in the fourth quarter if we fall behind.
that's why it's such a great storyline that the Browns finally get right after the bye and go on an amazing run and make the playoffs for the second year in a row. 

#ONPRIMETIME

 
Last edited by a moderator:

MAC_32

Footballguy
dang it.  i said i wasn't going to get my hopes up anymore this season.

but looking at the schedule...

TWO Saturday games (including Christmas Day) AND a Monday night game.

this thing is set up for a dramatic comeback by the Browns over the last 5 weeks on PRIME TIME.
We're fans. It's okay for us to be irrational. Sports would be boring if we weren't.

 

Bracie Smathers

Footballguy
that's why it's such a great storyline that the Browns finally get right after the bye and go on an amazing run and make the playoffs for the second year in a row. 

#ONPRIMETIME
The reason for optimism is the suckage of the collective AFCN offensive line play.  Burrows is getting killed, Lamar is getting blitzed to death, the Steelers still suck running the football.  If our O-line was healthy we'd have a huge leg-up on everyone.

One small glimmer of hope is Blake is being replaced at RT with rookie Chris Hudson who struggled in TC, the preseason, and early in the year when they trying to find a replacement for Conklin.

Fingers crossed that he's 'ready' now but its a longshot. 

Lloyd Christmas type chance.

 

amnesiac

beer is good
The reason for optimism is the suckage of the collective AFCN offensive line play.  Burrows is getting killed, Lamar is getting blitzed to death, the Steelers still suck running the football.  If our O-line was healthy we'd have a huge leg-up on everyone.

One small glimmer of hope is Blake is being replaced at RT with rookie Chris Hudson who struggled in TC, the preseason, and early in the year when they trying to find a replacement for Conklin.

Fingers crossed that he's 'ready' now but its a longshot. 

Lloyd Christmas type chance.
i actually really liked the James Hudson pick at draft time.

maybe now that he's had a few months to work with Callahan, he'll be up to the task.

at least it's not the blind side.  

 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top