AAABatteries
Footballguy
Was willing to give my right testicle for the Celtics to lose and now I'll give up the left one for the Heat to lose. Not really using them anyway.
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2022-23 NBA Thread: “you’ll never let me down like the Heat did”, Miami fan says to giant pile of cocaine (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Capella
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Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Jay: the fact that the 4 teams that went to the finals in the bubble were the same 4 teams in the conference finals this year is more of an indictment of the shortened 2021 season than the bubble. Only denver made it out of the first round in 2021 bc those teams were gassed.
The heat CAN win these finals the same way they have won the past three series: Flipping home court, good shooting, good defense. I do not expect them to win the finals but I didn't expect them to win any of this other stuff either. They also have been here before. They gave lebron and AD all they could handle in the bubble (Jimmy was arguably the best player in those finals).
You want to give me odds? I'll take the bet. No way means, what? 100:1?
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
HI! Again the arguement is still valid. There are some guys who either are not interested (KD, Kyrie etc) or love their city (Giannis, Beal) but Riley at least gets int he room to talk to them if they are looking.
Riley has pulled off the impossible so many times: Zo, Hardaway, Shaq, Lebron, Bosh, Dragic, Lowry, Butler and a bunch of mid level guys as well. Brought back wade at the end. The team has been hit by Zo's kidney, Shaq wanting out, Lebron Leaving, Bosh's leg issue, etc etc and he still builds winners.
Yeah, some of the magic is gone with Lebron copying a lot of the Riley stuff after he left and Wade and Fizdale trying to reshape the Jazz into a version of what riley does in miami, but Riley always at least gets in the room.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
To put things in perspective the betting odds for the Heat winning the series seems to range from +295 to +375 in the few sites I’ve been seeing (basically in the neighborhood of anywhere from 3-1 or 4-1 odds. One interesting bet that I saw is if Jokic can record 50+ (combined points, rebounds, and assists) for every game in the finals at 11-1.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
The Heat got them because they were buddies with Wade and wanted to be a superteam. Where were they going to pick, Cleveland, Toronto or Miami? Seems like an easy call.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
I don't gamble but seems like a sucker bet. 29/10/10 and you lose. They blow the Heat out in game 1 and he sits the 4th and you are done.
jvdesigns2002
Footballguy
I hardly participate in sports gambling. I might throw $50 on a longshot to win a title when the season starts—but that’s about it (outside of my fantasy leagues). The bet certainly indicates that it’s not supposed to happen (basically an 8-9% shot based on the odds). With that said—for the regular season, Jokic averaged 24.5-11.8-9.8 which comes out to a combined 46.1 per game. He averaged just under 34 minutes per game during the regular season. If one feels like he can feast on the Heat, and will average nearly 39 minutes per game (which is what he’s been averaging thus far into the playoffs)—it wouldn’t be shocking to see him do it. I’m with you though—it’s certainly far more unlikely than it is likely. He’ll have games where he exceeds it—but it only takes one game where he doesn’t reach it for the bet to be a loser.
NewlyRetired
Footballguy
I know you are big soccer fan. I would recommend saving at least one testicle for US Soccer to kick if they finally decide to hire a coach anytime this cycle.
Kev4029
Footballguy
These playoffs he has had:
Wolves - 33, 45, 43, 60, 57
Suns - 48, 60, 64, 68, 54, 54
Lakers - 69, 52, 38, 57
So he's gotten it 10/15 games.... using those odds, roughly a 20% chance of happening in 4 games, 13% chance in 5 games, 9% chance in 6 games, 6% chance in 7 games.
Capella
Footballguy
I honestly thought you were just being sarcastic when you mentioned Dragic and Lowry. Those guys are fine but that type of player signs across the league every year.
Courtjester
The Town Drunk
Denver has to make sure their staff just randomly drops coupons in Miami's locker room for local strip joints. There is a lot of dead time between game one and two. 
Kev4029
Footballguy
The nice ladies from Diamond Cabaret are already going to be there after the game handing out those coupons, shouldn't be difficult for them to stop by to hand deliver some coupons to the team.Denver has to make sure their staff just randomly drops coupons in Miami's locker room for local strip joints. There is a lot of dead time between game one and two.
AAABatteries
Footballguy
Denver has to make sure their staff just randomly drops coupons in Miami's locker room for local strip joints. There is a lot of dead time between game one and two.
Let me guess some of the names:
- Mike High Club
- Twin Peaks
- Granola Gals
- Rocky Mountain High
I’m not very good at these.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Denver has to make sure their staff just randomly drops coupons in Miami's locker room for local strip joints. There is a lot of dead time between game one and two.
Let me guess some of the names:
- Mike High Club
- Twin Peaks
- Granola Gals
- Rocky Mountain High
I’m not very good at these.
* Nugget Heat
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
You are forgetting your history here. Dragic at the time of the trade was not "just a guy" and 5 teams were on his tail. He picked Miami, and as Miami does, they gave up picks and pieces to get him. The trade happened 2 days before Bosh was then lost for the season due to Blood clots in his legs, forcing Riley to then regroup again and remake the roster. The fact that Miami takes these big swings and then even manages to retool, rebuild, and restock without having a high pick (Bam was taken at 14, Herro at 13) should say all that needs to be said about the heat front office and Riley.
The key to the Butler trade was Josh RIchardson of all people (and they managed to jettison Whiteside as part of that deal). That is a magician at work
Again, the first piece is the player has to WANT to come to Miami. Shaq, ZO, Timmy H, Butler, Goran etc etc. If Lillard wants to play for Miami then they will get him here.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
That’s why it’s 11-1 odds. $10 to win $110 is a decent payout to take the risk. With that said, I’m on your side that everything has to break right or you’re basically just giving money away.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I mean.....if Lillard wants to sign with the Heat in the summer of 2025 at age 35, I would say Bon Chance, Amigo and wish him all the best. Outside of that, Miami has nothing in the way of capital to trade to Portland for the best player ever to wear The Pinwheel. Late 1st round picks aren't doing it.
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
2025? He has a $63.2 million player option for the 2026-7 season. He won’t turn that down.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Good call. In the spirit of sportsmanship it's prolly best to keep them away from Shotgun Willie's. Would hate to see any suspensions.The nice ladies from Diamond Cabaret are already going to be there after the game handing out those coupons, shouldn't be difficult for them to stop by to hand deliver some coupons to the team.Denver has to make sure their staff just randomly drops coupons in Miami's locker room for local strip joints. There is a lot of dead time between game one and two.
General Malaise
Footballguy
I just googled when he becomes an unrestricted free agent. I understand basketball contracts about as well as I understood organic chemistry 303.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
I saw a trade proposal that didn't make much sense to me, but hey, it got me to click on it.
Boston receives: Karl-Anthony Towns
Minnesota receives: Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, Derrick White, 2024 first, and a 2026 first
That seems like a really odd thing for BOS to want to do. That would mean the Celtics would start JB, JT, KAT, Horford, and Brogdon with no depth on their bench. In a couple years, that would give Boston three $50+ million players. Not sure that is even doable anymore.
Would such a trade make Boston any better?
Boston receives: Karl-Anthony Towns
Minnesota receives: Marcus Smart, Robert Williams, Derrick White, 2024 first, and a 2026 first
That seems like a really odd thing for BOS to want to do. That would mean the Celtics would start JB, JT, KAT, Horford, and Brogdon with no depth on their bench. In a couple years, that would give Boston three $50+ million players. Not sure that is even doable anymore.
Would such a trade make Boston any better?
identikit
Footballguy
Looks horrible for the Celts IMO
Juxtatarot
Footballguy
I think that was before he signed an extension last year. Here’s the salary table:
Portland Trail Blazers Multi-Year Cap
Portland Trail Blazers (POR) player Cap figures, Cap, seasons
Frostillicus
Footballguy
That's a bad trade for both teams. Impressive.
The Gator
Footballguy
Wtheck
General Malaise
Footballguy
Looking for a player who has otherworldly hops, man.
The Gator
Footballguy
And tough to box out. Check check
the moops
Footballguy
Seriously.
It wouldn't happen, but a Jaylen Brown for KAT deal makes some sense for both sides
msudaisy26
Footballguy
This Heat culture thing is starting to get ridiculous. The Heat are very good at developing players, the culture got them Jimmy Butler, Dragic and a 35 year old, way past his prime Kyle Lowry.
D-Wade is to thank for Shaq and that 06 title.
D-Wade, the Miami weather and his friendship with LeBron and Bosh is to thank for the 4 year run in the early 2010's. If it was all culture LeBron wouldn't have jumped ship after 4 years.
D-Wade is to thank for Shaq and that 06 title.
D-Wade, the Miami weather and his friendship with LeBron and Bosh is to thank for the 4 year run in the early 2010's. If it was all culture LeBron wouldn't have jumped ship after 4 years.
TripleThreat
Footballguy
And D Wade saw first hand what Butler was and realized he was a fit in Miami and mentioned it to Riley
MH article in January 2017.
“The Heat say culture and we say culture all the time, but let’s talk about what that really means,” Wade said. “That’s what Jimmy was looking for, what he was missing. And that’s what we got fined for to just be honest. Me and Jimmy both got fined in Chicago because of holding guys accountable. It’s not about misses or makes, you know what I mean. It’s about caring about the game the same way we care about it. Not from the standpoint of not laughing or you got to cry after every game, it’s the way you perform. When you have a lead, it’s the way you hold onto a lead and how much you care about that. Stuff of that nature. So, he has that in Miami. He has the organization and it’s passed down to the players because they recruit players and bring in players who fit that same mold.”
MH article in January 2017.
“The Heat say culture and we say culture all the time, but let’s talk about what that really means,” Wade said. “That’s what Jimmy was looking for, what he was missing. And that’s what we got fined for to just be honest. Me and Jimmy both got fined in Chicago because of holding guys accountable. It’s not about misses or makes, you know what I mean. It’s about caring about the game the same way we care about it. Not from the standpoint of not laughing or you got to cry after every game, it’s the way you perform. When you have a lead, it’s the way you hold onto a lead and how much you care about that. Stuff of that nature. So, he has that in Miami. He has the organization and it’s passed down to the players because they recruit players and bring in players who fit that same mold.”
Gatorman
Supreme Elite Maximum Tier
Is it though? Is pop not a great coach as well bc of the players he gets? (sure having Duncan or the admiral certainly help too). Coaches and front offices with longevity have a certain style and need certain types of players to fit that style. For pop, it is guys who can pass and “handle”. For Miami, it is guys who are up for the challenge on defense and who want to “go get it”. for golden state, Kerrs philosophy of “shoot from anywhere” needs guys like curry et Al but all three of those guys preach defense as well. Phil Jackson is likely the only coach I remember who’s system was predicated on having one of the top 3 players in the league to be effective (and having a top 10 guy as his running mate), and they still were always all world on d.
why Has Riley always developed a guy no one ever heard of? John starks, even further back Michael cooper, a bunch of guys on the heat that went on to larger second contracts who came from no where. (Bruce Bowen played for Miami before going to the spurs). Second rounders that became ballers, and now (with the help of their affiliate team the sky force) all these guys.
philly is what it is bc they didn’t “trust the process” and once they jettisoned the architect of that theory they’ve been chasing “culture” ever since and spin cycling through players and coaches not named embiid.
lebron jumped ship bc he wanted to run the team, and Riley said nope. Wade jumped ship at one point bc he felt entitled to a fat contract but didnt want to expand his game out to the three point line. He came back when he realized that other teams are not as accountable as the heat are with players. Hence the conversation with jimmy buckets. Haslem is another of those guys, btw. You remember him now but in the 2006 title he was a starter and he came from playing in Europe as a fat forward/center to a lean power forward with a money 15 foot baseline jump shot and unreal defense. He was also a rotation player during the big 3 era but when spo went “positionless” he became the OG on the team.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
You are talking a lot of circles here, but in the NBA players have the biggest impact on winning as opposed to the coaches in any sport. The Spurs dynasty doesn't happen without Duncan, the Warriors run and shoot from anywhere offense doesn't happen without Curry and Thompson, the Heat culture never wins a title without Wade. All these coaches and front office people got all time great players and worked their system around them, not the other way around.
Everyone has said that Riley/Heat are great at find mediocre talents and making them better, but they aren't curing cancer here and the best players in the world aren't flocking to the Heat the because of a culture. The went their once because they were all best friends trying to form a superteam.
Star players in the NBA are looking at a few things when they go some where money, location, who they get to play with, and chances of winning. Only a few outliers, like Butler go because of Heat culture.
Capella
Footballguy
There is probably something to heat culture but you also need good players to win and the heat were 5 minutes away from losing to the Bulls and going home.
The Heat haven’t won a title without multiple first ballot hall of famers so really it’s kind of ridiculous to hear about. Hell of a run this year though no doubt.
The Heat haven’t won a title without multiple first ballot hall of famers so really it’s kind of ridiculous to hear about. Hell of a run this year though no doubt.
Stoneworker
Footballguy
That's certainly not how the Nuggets have built their team.
General Malaise
Footballguy
Dan Patrick show was talking about this but it's quite something that neither Spo nor Malone has won NBA Coach of the Year honors.
Anarchy99
Footballguy
Not really that surprising. They generally give it to the coach of a team that made a huge step up in wins from one season to the next or otherwise had a breakout season. Both DEN and MIA are usually good, so it would be hard for them to realize a big bump in the win column. The Heat post-Lebron have been good but not great in the regular season. The Nuggets under Malone have been very competitive (past his first two seasons). IIRC, the post season doesn't count at all toward Coach of the Year.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Jokic is minus 20000 to lead the series in rebounds or assists. Lol
Everyone else is plus 2500 or more. Makes me wonder if I should make a little bet on someone else just in case.
Everyone else is plus 2500 or more. Makes me wonder if I should make a little bet on someone else just in case.
Zow
Footballguy
Well you're basically betting whether he gets injured and misses games. Do you think there's a greater than five percent chance of that happening?
Stoneworker
Footballguy
Obviously Joker and Murray getting most of the headlines, but the Nuggets wouldn't have made it this far without Aaron Gordon and his insane defensive versatility.
Round 1: Karl-Anthony Towns
Round 2: Kevin Durant
Round 3: LeBron James
Round 4: Jimmy Butler
Round 1: Karl-Anthony Towns
Round 2: Kevin Durant
Round 3: LeBron James
Round 4: Jimmy Butler
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
www.detroitbadboys.com
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
Kev4029
Footballguy
6 years 72 mil for Williams. Wow.Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
6 years 72 mil for Williams. Wow.Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
Step one - Get a great coach - check
Step two - ????
Step three - ????
Step four - ????
Step five - ????
Step six - win championships
We are on the way.
identikit
Footballguy
Needs more steps. I'm thinking6 years 72 mil for Williams. Wow.Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
Step one - Get a great coach - check
Step two - ????
Step three - ????
Step four - ????
Step five - ????
Step six - win championships
We are on the way.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Needs more steps. I'm thinking6 years 72 mil for Williams. Wow.Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
Step one - Get a great coach - check
Step two - ????
Step three - ????
Step four - ????
Step five - ????
Step six - win championships
We are on the way.
I am an optimist.
Frostillicus
Footballguy
I like Cade + Ivey + Duren. Wiseman is a nice lottery ticket.Needs more steps. I'm thinking6 years 72 mil for Williams. Wow.Reports: Pistons making one last push for Monty Williams; preparing "significant" offer to make him head coach
Williams led the Suns to the NBA Finals in 2021 and was NBA Coach of the Year in 2022
He told them no once and they are trying again. It may not work, but I am very happy that they are trying.
Step one - Get a great coach - check
Step two - ????
Step three - ????
Step four - ????
Step five - ????
Step six - win championships
We are on the way.
I am an optimist.
CletiusMaximus
Footballguy
Other big cultural factors are no state income tax and the most hookers per capita in all of North America.
msudaisy26
Footballguy
Not that matters all that much, but my steps for be Pistons would be to make the Nets match an overpay for Cam Johnson. 4 @ 110ish? Then I would trade for a power forward that is available, Randle or Siakim.
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