massraider
Footballguy
They shouldn't.
They still should absolutely make sure 100% he's not gonna be really good. They know for sure about all their other guys.
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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Dr. Octopus
- Start date
They still should absolutely make sure 100% he's not gonna be really good. They know for sure about all their other guys.
rockaction
Footballguy
I agree. This is his evaluation year.
massraider
Footballguy
If they don't, it's a strict job saving mode for...whoever. I know Salah ain't getting fired. But pulling a kid this early, when teams do it, you know it's to keep heat off the coaches.
rockaction
Footballguy
If they don't, it could also be that they're trying to stop a mutiny in the locker room. But yeah, usually it's about job security for the front office and coaches.
rockaction
Footballguy
What a downer. Our QB is so obviously behind the curve that it's depressing -- and it's probably about time to start steeling ourselves for another break-in period of a different new guy.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Seems like the mutiny may be on.
The defense can NOT be happy with Wilson’s lack of ownership of his awful performance.
rockaction
Footballguy
I can't follow the Twitter feed. Did John Franklin-Myers post that "selfishness is a QB stat," or was that another dude screenshotting his Twitter. Or...what? I'm not exactly sure what to make of it.
Yeah, Wilson's post-game comments are silly on their face. Just say "yes" and move on.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
Yeah, that was a bit confusing. That comment was from the other guy. Franklin-Myers retweeted a tweet comparing Josh Allen taking the entire blame for Buffalo’s loss to the Jets when he said he played like #### with Wilson saying he didn’t feel like he let the defense down.
Seems like Garrett Wilson isn’t happy and isn’t afraid to say so as well. Looks like the Jets coaching staff may be about to lose the locker room. As a Bills fan, the Jets seem to have all the pieces. Except for QB. And Wilson is playing badly enough to single-handedly lose games (and I say that well aware that Josh pretty much cost the Bills 2 weeks in a row). The players know they have a team that should be good enough to be a playoff team, but Wilson may very well prevent that from happening.
GroveDiesel
Footballguy
On a good note for Jets fans, Quinnen Williams is really really good, like DPOY level good. And Sauce Gardner is the real deal as well. Jets have done a tremendous job drafting on defense.
sheerterror
Footballguy
I'll say it again - TRADE FOR MINSHEW
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Guess I should be glad I had to miss that game.
Having to start over at QB at this point is so depressing- but that’s where we are headed.
Having to start over at QB at this point is so depressing- but that’s where we are headed.
Pip's Invitation
Footballguy
Howie and Joe are friends, I'm sure they could get something done.
However, Howie is the league's biggest proponent of backup QB being a very important position -- after all, the Eagles won their only SB with a backup QB -- so he's probably not dealing Minshew until he has a plan to bring in a #2 that he's equally as confident in.
FairWarning
Footballguy
It’s a good time for the Jets to play the Bears. Bears OL took a step back last week.
jwb
Footballguy
It's not looking promising. I guess we have no choice but to play it out with Wilson though.
Honestly, I really want to see them go for broke and start slinging it. I'm so tired of misdirection, screens, trick plays, constant 6 yard sideline throws, etc. At some point you've got to start going for those 15-20 yard chunk plays over the middle, something they never seem to do. They never put a defense on its heels. Now maybe they aren't because they don't think Zach can do that, but it also feels like that's been missing from our offense for a long time, through several regimes. I have no confidence that this team can gain 20 yards in one play without some kind of gimmick or luck.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
I disagree that you cant bench Zach at all - the team is/was in competition for their 1st division title in over a decade. There would have been nothing wrong with pulling him at the half and giving White a shot to see if he gives a spark then start Wilson the next game. I cant imagine a coach like Parcells putting up with balls sailing yards over a 6'4" WR and then skipping a ball to a wide open player. They had a legit chance to win and seize control of the division - there was one player holding them back -
I get its an evaluation year but shouldnt winning be on the table as well? There was zero chance Wilson was going to win that game. You cant lose the locker room by sticking with him looking that bad without any response....
him acting cocky/stupid and taking no responsibility after the loss is even worse. He literally poured gasoline on the fire - what a mess on what should have been a great win.
I get its an evaluation year but shouldnt winning be on the table as well? There was zero chance Wilson was going to win that game. You cant lose the locker room by sticking with him looking that bad without any response....
him acting cocky/stupid and taking no responsibility after the loss is even worse. He literally poured gasoline on the fire - what a mess on what should have been a great win.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
Defense is good.
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Michael Nania@Michael_Nania
I kept waiting for the final straw that would break the defense's back but it never happened. They held up every single time. What an amazing performance, one of the best I've ever seen from a Jets defense when considering the severe lack of assistance
------------------
No hope of getting a high draft pick to draft a replacement and past the trade deadline so no use pondering trade for a QB till the offseason but with that defense it only takes a top 12 to 15 QB not a top 5 or 10.
I think they could land a top 12 to 15 QB this offseason either by trade or free agency who can do the job.
Minshew or Brissett. Brissett has been far better than I could have expected. He has worked great with Amari and has helped develop Njoku along with Peoples-Jones. He doesn't turn the ball over, he's been really good and sensational in the locker room. Excellent stabile and mature presence.
Would not want him to leave the Browns but I can't think of anyone better and he's a FA this off season.
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Michael Nania@Michael_Nania
I kept waiting for the final straw that would break the defense's back but it never happened. They held up every single time. What an amazing performance, one of the best I've ever seen from a Jets defense when considering the severe lack of assistance
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No hope of getting a high draft pick to draft a replacement and past the trade deadline so no use pondering trade for a QB till the offseason but with that defense it only takes a top 12 to 15 QB not a top 5 or 10.
I think they could land a top 12 to 15 QB this offseason either by trade or free agency who can do the job.
Minshew or Brissett. Brissett has been far better than I could have expected. He has worked great with Amari and has helped develop Njoku along with Peoples-Jones. He doesn't turn the ball over, he's been really good and sensational in the locker room. Excellent stabile and mature presence.
Would not want him to leave the Browns but I can't think of anyone better and he's a FA this off season.
TLEF316
Footballguy
New England got plenty of chunk plays yesterday throwing those same sorts of patterns, Jones wasn't throwing it deep. He just has the basic fundamentals (you know...the stuff that pretty much any draftable QB prospect has) necessary to hit guys in stride on shorter routes so they have the ability to turn up field and turn a 6 yard route into a 20 yard pickup
jwb
Footballguy
Yea in thinking more about this, I agree - keeping the locker room is of the utmost importance. His behavior after the game was really bad.
massraider
Footballguy
Fields injured too.
Looking forward to the Trevor Siemien/Mike White grudge match.
Looking forward to the Trevor Siemien/Mike White grudge match.
NYRAGE
Footballguy
The Jets have to make a change at QB. Wilson can go kick rocks.
It's funny how quickly we moved from this is a year to develop Wilson to this is a team ready to compete for the playoffs. It's not fair to the rest of the team to have him perform so poorly and to have a bad attitude on top of it. He might be even be more blind assessing his own performance than he is missing open players on the field.
Give White a shot. Hell, even Flacco might be better for this team right now. The defense is good enough. We just need a competent QB right now. Wilson makes too many negative plays and can't even complete the simplest of passes. Plus he can't read the field at all.
Sorry Wilson. Take your entitled *** to the sidelines. Reset for next off-season.
It's funny how quickly we moved from this is a year to develop Wilson to this is a team ready to compete for the playoffs. It's not fair to the rest of the team to have him perform so poorly and to have a bad attitude on top of it. He might be even be more blind assessing his own performance than he is missing open players on the field.
Give White a shot. Hell, even Flacco might be better for this team right now. The defense is good enough. We just need a competent QB right now. Wilson makes too many negative plays and can't even complete the simplest of passes. Plus he can't read the field at all.
Sorry Wilson. Take your entitled *** to the sidelines. Reset for next off-season.
rockaction
Footballguy
Standing firm. Unless you're signing an FA this offseason at QB for sure, you have to see what this kid does after that debacle. They're not in any surprising position here if you were watching. They were going to be reading Melville while he studied young adult fiction. I said that way back upthread.
Can't pull the plug yet. I agree with all your sentiments, you guys, I'd just do it differently. This is the evaluation year. Remember Peyton Manning and the 5 INTS or whatever it was? Jim Mora doing his "PLAYOFFS?" thing. Not saying Zach has flashed ever like Manning, and Zach's numbers under pressure and overall are actually Josh Rosen-esque bad -- historically bad -- but is Mike White, Joe Flacco, or Chris Streveler the answer?
No. We know that.
Time to take our castor oil that we might be well in the days to come, or at least know we won't get sicker.
Can't pull the plug yet. I agree with all your sentiments, you guys, I'd just do it differently. This is the evaluation year. Remember Peyton Manning and the 5 INTS or whatever it was? Jim Mora doing his "PLAYOFFS?" thing. Not saying Zach has flashed ever like Manning, and Zach's numbers under pressure and overall are actually Josh Rosen-esque bad -- historically bad -- but is Mike White, Joe Flacco, or Chris Streveler the answer?
No. We know that.
Time to take our castor oil that we might be well in the days to come, or at least know we won't get sicker.
rockaction
Footballguy
Or perhaps I'm a masochist.
rockaction
Footballguy
Eh, maybe it's time for a change.
What can I say? I truly don't know. I vacillate back and forth on it.
What can I say? I truly don't know. I vacillate back and forth on it.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I really just don’t see Mike White and especially Joe Flacco being a big enough upgrade to not stay the course on trying to develop Zach.
Obviously he’s been horrible, but is Mike White a playoff caliber QB? I think we know the answer there.
I’m not sure how Flacco could survive behind that o-line but I guess maybe they’d work around it with screens and quick passes.
It just sucks that Wilson hasn’t just been bad, he’s been atrocious.
TLEF316
Footballguy
My perspective here is skewed due to the fact that I never wanted Wilson in the first place. But once they took him, I obviously wanted him to have every opportunity to succeed. There have been some bad breaks for sure. His injuries, the offensive injuries the back half of last year, the O-line injuries, Hall's injury, the Moore saga, etc.
And with all that, expectations change. While it sucks to see other teams bring in rookie QB's and have them produce reasonable to very good numbers basically right away (Justin Herbert came into a game against the super bowl champs with about 10 mins noticed and no first team practice snaps and threw for 300 yards), I had no expectations that Wilson would be a top 10 or even top 15 QB this year. That wasn't realistic. But "actually looks like an NFL quarterback most of the time with the occasional big game" was a very reasonable request. He's not even close to that. He's historically bad. And now he has an attitude that screams "not a leader".
I HATE the idea of going to Mike White or Joe Flacco (although I think he could do enough if the Jets had a healthy o-line and Hall to run the ball). But at this point, anything that expedites the end of the Wilson era is ok with me. He doesn't have it. He never did. He figured out how to do a poor-man's Mahomes impression against a terrible COVID schedule and all the NFL people (mainly the media.....screw you Chris Simms) who didn't properly evaluate Mahomes didn't want to look stupid again. And unfortunately, our GM (the one guy that matters) took the bait.
They need to get a competent QB in the door before they have to start handing out top end contracts to Sauce, Hall, Garrett Wilson and AVT. Q Williams will get his next year. Otherwise this group will be a total waste.
And with all that, expectations change. While it sucks to see other teams bring in rookie QB's and have them produce reasonable to very good numbers basically right away (Justin Herbert came into a game against the super bowl champs with about 10 mins noticed and no first team practice snaps and threw for 300 yards), I had no expectations that Wilson would be a top 10 or even top 15 QB this year. That wasn't realistic. But "actually looks like an NFL quarterback most of the time with the occasional big game" was a very reasonable request. He's not even close to that. He's historically bad. And now he has an attitude that screams "not a leader".
I HATE the idea of going to Mike White or Joe Flacco (although I think he could do enough if the Jets had a healthy o-line and Hall to run the ball). But at this point, anything that expedites the end of the Wilson era is ok with me. He doesn't have it. He never did. He figured out how to do a poor-man's Mahomes impression against a terrible COVID schedule and all the NFL people (mainly the media.....screw you Chris Simms) who didn't properly evaluate Mahomes didn't want to look stupid again. And unfortunately, our GM (the one guy that matters) took the bait.
They need to get a competent QB in the door before they have to start handing out top end contracts to Sauce, Hall, Garrett Wilson and AVT. Q Williams will get his next year. Otherwise this group will be a total waste.
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rockaction
Footballguy
Agreed on that, that's for sure. Wasting this group's cost-controlled contracts would be maddening and sad.
They've been outstanding when given the chance to be. It's really all eyes on Wilson at this point. If he bombs this audition, FA QB in the offseason has to be a top priority. Did anyone, anywhere think we'd be clamoring for Geno Smith to come back and lead us???? Ever??????
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Agree - I know everyone is dog piling him after that comment but that's when a leader has to say "Absolutely. Our defense played their butts off today, they played well enough to win. This one is one me, I have to play better."
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I thought for-sure that the Steelers were going to move-up for Justin Fields after the Jets passed him over for Wilson which was a head scratcher.
Also, I can't believe SF moved-up and bypassed Fields while paying a premium for Trey Lance.
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Brent Sobleski
@brentsobleski
The biggest issue with the Jets isn't that the organization selected Zach Wilson with last year's second overall pick. It's that it did so while passing on Justin Fields, when the latter was clearly a superior prospect (then and now).
Also, I can't believe SF moved-up and bypassed Fields while paying a premium for Trey Lance.
----------------------
Brent Sobleski
@brentsobleski
The biggest issue with the Jets isn't that the organization selected Zach Wilson with last year's second overall pick. It's that it did so while passing on Justin Fields, when the latter was clearly a superior prospect (then and now).
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Agreed - if he was just making mistakes like Peyton did his rookie year and throwing INTs thats one thing - they have literally the most conservative gameplan invented and he cant make the most basic throws like a screen pass or short wide open passes. You can live with a mistake trying to thread the needle making a big play but the kid has been historically bad - like Hackenberg bad. Throw the stupid comments/attitude on it and then the fact that this is a playoff team now and there you have it.
I love what Saleh did - this is the first adversity that Wilson has received probably in his life. It was a mistake not bringing in a vet his rookie year and making him earn the job. He's been handed everything - he finally now knows he needs to step up and earn it or else he's benched. This does 2 things - gives Zach another chance to figure things out knowing he's running out of chances...if he cant step up then hes not a franchise QB and they have their evaluation. #2 - tells the team that no one is above winning and every player is on notice. The defense/vets/heck every other player in the locker room has to love that. Great move by Saleh
Lastly as said earlier - it doesnt have to be a permanent benching. If he comes out and stinks Sunday let him sit for a half and see what White does. If White doesnt give a spark then go back to Wilson for another chance. It could even be for a few games - if they are winning they need to make a run with the best players.....if they lose with White then go back to Wilson for the stretch run.
Regardless its clear Wilson hasnt earned the starting job for 2023 and the future - they have to bring in competition....Lam Jax is a pipe dream so looking at a Jimmy G/Carr/Brissett type of QB which is fine by me - shouldnt cost a ton and if the light turns on for Wilson then you can go back to him and have an excellent mentor/backup.
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Kiddnets
Footballguy
After watching the bowl games where Fields was awesome I was convinced he was the #2 pick and a very nice consolation prize for losing out on Trevor....JD has been a solid drafter but he fell in love with potential/workout warrior (Mamula syndrome for you older fans) over the clearly better player who faced seasoned competition. I also think they didnt want a run first QB in their system but still it was a big mistake....at least other teams passed on him but thinking that the Jets were in line to easily draft Watson, Mahomes and J Allen and decided not to is rough.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Hopefully that option presents itself somehow. Which QBs are free agents and which will be made available via trade? Maybe Aaron Rodgers looks to end his career in the media spotlight of NY?
What are realistic veteran options? Jimmy G is the obvious one but if SF goes to another NFC Championship game or beyond will they try and hang onto him? Will the Vikings let Kirk Cousins walk?
They somehow need to get this right - because like you say they just can't waste 2-4 years while these young players are cost controlled.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Not a lot of great options - especially as teams realize the same and find ways to retain QBs.....heres a list from looking at salaries/FAs
Rodgers new deal makes it impossible to deal him without a rework - would be a $60M hit for GB if traded.....so thats unnlikely
Jimmy G jumps out as he is a FA and famiilar with Saleh and the system - however SF is looking good and I wouldnt put it past them to find a way to keep him again.
Carr could be available for trade but Adams went there to play with him so this may be a longshot as well
Brissett - intriguing - played pretty well this year and is a FA as well.
Wentz - ugh - likely to be cut free from Washington - I know hes been bad but still young and would be available/cheap.
Daniel Jones - long shot the Giants let him go but he is a Fa and wasnt picked by their regime. They would need to franchise or sign him which both may not be easy to do.
Gardner Minshew - FA finally - young, likely cheap, popular - has looked good when given the chance
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Yuck
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I think Minshew is a limited QB but fits in well with this team. His “weak” arm wouldn’t be as big a detriment in the current Jets system and he has the “moxy” that would work well in New York.
I think bringing him in may be the best option. - and you could even keep Wilson around as a backup QB and hope he can still develop.
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
ZACH WILSON Passing 2022
| GP | CMP | ATT | CMP% | YDS | AVG | TD | INT | LNG | SACK | RTG | QBR |
|---|
| 7 | 105 | 189 | 55.6 | 1,279 | 6.8 | 4 | 5 | 79 | 16 | Passer Rating 72.6 | 45.1 QBR |
JACOBY BRISSETT Passing 2022
| 10 | 213 | 331 | 64.3 | 2,398 | 7.2 | 11 | 5 | 55 | 20 | Passer Rating 90.7 | 62.4 QBR |
Mookie
Footballguy
I think you play it like Belichick and go with tough love. Start Wilson, but light a fire under his ***. If he comes out strong, great, roll with him. If Wilson comes out flat, give him a quick hook and bench him. You can't continue to reward truly awful performances at your most important position.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Is your point that Brisset is better than Wilson? If so thanks. Who could have guessed that?
Being better than Wilson doesn’t mean I want that guy leading a potential playoff team.
rockaction
Footballguy
Bracie always has issues when it comes to Cleveland. Guy still defends Myles Garrett for trying to behead someone.
rockaction
Footballguy
Geno Smith is also a UFA after the year is up. Can you imagine Geno back in NY?
GENO!!
GENO!!
Bracie Smathers
Footballguy
I didn't bring up what has happened.
Yuck.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
Zero clue as to what you’re saying - and let’s leave it that way.
Dr. Octopus
Footballguy
I didn’t even attack Cleveland. I mean does anyone want Jacoby Brissett, Carson Wentz or Daniel Jones having the keys to a playoff caliber team?
I didn’t think it was some controversial stance.
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Desert_Power
Footballguy
Rough list.
Kiddnets
Footballguy
Solid QBs are rarely available.
Desert_Power
Footballguy
Yeah. Maybe the media should let the season play out before touting those options. I don't think Zach is particularly good but shouldn't overreact from BB shutting him down at home.
FairWarning
Footballguy
I haven’t watched an entire jets game in a long time, but Hoodie has shut down better qbs. Couples with the wind, is anyone surprised Wilson sucked on Sunday?
zamboni
Footballguy
I don’t buy the wind argument too much. Mac Jones didn’t seem to have problems with it.
rockaction
Footballguy
Mac Jones sucked the other day. He just completed a ton of passes to RBs. I don't know why people are even remotely comparing the two quarterbacks and coming out heavily on the side of Mac. He completed check downs. That was it.
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