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2023 New York Jets: Bye Bye (14 Viewers)

Now that a week has passed since the miracle in Cleveland and everyone's fleeting joy, can we go back to discussing how unimpressive this coaching staff is? I think we can all agree that there is more talent on the field than last year. We shouldn't be this bad. Even the freaking Lions and Jaguars look way better than us. Even when the Lions were losing last year, they were battling in every game.

Although MlF has some poor play-calling lapses, at least he has shown some potential.
The defense? Um, absolutely nothing under Ulbrich. What happened to we have so many D-linemen? We haven't gotten hardly any pressure in 3 games. The Bengals gave up 6-7 sacks each week. Just pathetic.

How long can Saleh collect receipts? Communication mistakes? Who is that on? Sideline Q incident. Cored Davis penalty. Team coming out flat. What is Saleh doing about this?

I have always complimented Saleh on how well-spoken he is and how he has conducted himself with the press, but on Sundays he is invisible. Or when he is finally visible, it's not for anything good. I'm just tired of it all.
 
NYRAGE said:
Now that a week has passed since the miracle in Cleveland and everyone's fleeting joy, can we go back to discussing how unimpressive this coaching staff is? I think we can all agree that there is more talent on the field than last year. We shouldn't be this bad. Even the freaking Lions and Jaguars look way better than us. Even when the Lions were losing last year, they were battling in every game.

Although MlF has some poor play-calling lapses, at least he has shown some potential.
The defense? Um, absolutely nothing under Ulbrich. What happened to we have so many D-linemen? We haven't gotten hardly any pressure in 3 games. The Bengals gave up 6-7 sacks each week. Just pathetic.

How long can Saleh collect receipts? Communication mistakes? Who is that on? Sideline Q incident. Cored Davis penalty. Team coming out flat. What is Saleh doing about this?

I have always complimented Saleh on how well-spoken he is and how he has conducted himself with the press, but on Sundays he is invisible. Or when he is finally visible, it's not for anything good. I'm just tired of it all.
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I really dont want to start over with yet another new coaching staff but there are red flags all over the place....this is a big week to right the ship. Say what you will about Rex and how he was clueless on offense - but he put together a monster defense that went after the QB and put the team in a position to win. Whats the point of hiring a defensive minded coach whose defense is terrible?
 
NYRAGE said:
Now that a week has passed since the miracle in Cleveland and everyone's fleeting joy, can we go back to discussing how unimpressive this coaching staff is? I think we can all agree that there is more talent on the field than last year. We shouldn't be this bad. Even the freaking Lions and Jaguars look way better than us. Even when the Lions were losing last year, they were battling in every game.
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Yes, they arent even competitive in their losses. That game really was never close and it’s on both sides of the ball. They held up well for first half of Week 1 but for 2.5 games teams have had no trouble moving the ball.
 
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Saleh said that every team has 6-7 miscommunications per game, but we were just "unlucky" that big plays happened on 2-3 of them. Unlucky? Lol.

No one is buying what this clown is selling anymore. When asked about our problems on third down, he says that at least we're improved on first and second down. When asked for the solution for our problems, Saleh provided the timeless "we'll fix them" response. No details about how. Jesus. Herm part 2.
 
NYRAGE said:
Dr. Octopus said:
NYRAGE said:
Saleh said that every team has 6-7 miscommunications per game, but we were just "unlucky" that big plays happened on 2-3 of them. Unlucky? Lol.
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That’s a pretty crazy thing to say. I mean shouldn’t he be upset about the miscommunications?
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Apparently not when he normalizes them
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Guys… guys… you see. We **** up 6-7 times every week. This time we just got unlucky that they took advantage.
Imagine that?
 
I mean churning through coaches/GMs every 2/3 seasons isn’t working - but nothing really has. At some point the team has no choice. Unfortunately if Saleh goes (and that means Wilson has failed) Douglas isn’t surviving either.

ETA: I’m in no way suggesting Saleh should be fired. I was looking ahead if it continues in this way.
 
Is it weird that I’m excited to see Wilson play?

I know many have written him off but this is a talented kid who could be a cheat code FF QB if he puts it together. He looked good before the injury.

I know what Flacco is. I’m still optimistic about Wilson.

I’m kinda excited.
 
Dr. Octopus said:
NYRAGE said:
Dr. Octopus said:
NYRAGE said:
Saleh said that every team has 6-7 miscommunications per game, but we were just "unlucky" that big plays happened on 2-3 of them. Unlucky? Lol.
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That’s a pretty crazy thing to say. I mean shouldn’t he be upset about the miscommunications?
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Apparently not when he normalizes them
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Guys… guys… you see. We **** up 6-7 times every week. This time we just got unlucky that they took advantage.
Imagine that?
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The actual quote when asked about DJ Reed saying that the defense and coaches need to meet to get things right:

"All 32 teams, there's going to be 6 or 7 miscommunications a game. It is what it is. There's a lot of different things happening. We've just been unlucky on 2 occasions".

Then added, "We've just got to find a way to not be so snake bit where it explodes back in our face".

"So, we're a lot better than we were a year ago and it's only going to get better as the year goes on. So they're communicating actually pretty well for what you would expect out of four new guys".

sigh. Imagine multiple players complaining about the communication problem, but Saleh saying that's normal. Is he trying to take the heat off the players again? or off the coaches?

So, either
A)He's completely clueless
B) He's completely clueless about what he can say to the media and how fans will react in NY (again)
C) He feels completely secure about his job status
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Is it weird that I’m excited to see Wilson play?

I know many have written him off but this is a talented kid who could be a cheat code FF QB if he puts it together. He looked good before the injury.

I know what Flacco is. I’m still optimistic about Wilson.

I’m kinda excited.
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The only person more excited than us is Saleh right now. If Wilson doesn't develop like we hope, then it's going to be a really long season for everyone, especially Saleh
 
NYRAGE said:
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Is it weird that I’m excited to see Wilson play?

I know many have written him off but this is a talented kid who could be a cheat code FF QB if he puts it together. He looked good before the injury.

I know what Flacco is. I’m still optimistic about Wilson.

I’m kinda excited.
Click to expand...

The only person more excited than us is Saleh right now. If Wilson doesn't develop like we hope, then it's going to be a really long season for everyone, especially Saleh
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I think he has a longer leash than that. Maybe not a lot longer, but…
 
Hot Sauce Guy said:
Is it weird that I’m excited to see Wilson play?

I know many have written him off but this is a talented kid who could be a cheat code FF QB if he puts it together. He looked good before the injury.

I know what Flacco is. I’m still optimistic about Wilson.

I’m kinda excited.
Click to expand...
I’m hopeful but I really have no other choice. He’s stepping into a (mostly) good situation. He should be able to deal with a subpar o-line better but it’s still one thing working against him.
At some point something has to go right for the Jets but the fan are just used to having Lucy pull the football away every time.
 
Popped in just to read the perspective from the other side from this game. The one hopeful sign I can say for you guys is that the fan base wanted our coach gone in season 2 and things turned around in season 3. The worrisome thing is if players are calling out the coaching already :unsure: - is that just one or two guys and are they players there before Saleh? If he is losing the room quickly that is an awful sign. Still tough to judge based on Flacco (though as a Bengals fan I am damn happy not to see Mike White again) - hope for your guys sake Wilson stays healthy once he comes back (and especially hope he lights up the Steelers - and thanks already for beating Cleveland) and hoping Wilson vs Tua is a fun show for you guys.

Cheers
-QG
 
Dr. Octopus said:
I mean churning through coaches/GMs every 2/3 seasons isn’t working - but nothing really has. At some point the team has no choice. Unfortunately if Saleh goes (and that means Wilson has failed) Douglas isn’t surviving either.

ETA: I’m in no way suggesting Saleh should be fired. I was looking ahead if it continues in this way.
Click to expand...
As soon as we get one that's worth keeping more than 2-3 seasons, I think they'll be here. It's crazy how many staffs we run through, but I'll continue to argue that IMO the only coach who was let go 'too early' in the last 2 decades was Mangini. Rex and Bowles both wore out their welcomes 1-2 seasons before they were finally fired, but held on long enough because we were JUST mediocre enough for ownership to think we could actually take the next step (lol). Gase could have been dumped after year 1 in hindsight when you coupled that disaster with his Miami carryover, but even then we gave him that second year to really tank everything. Now we've got Saleh who is looking as incompetent as the rest. Don't believe he'll be gone after this year, but IMO that will mean that JD is truly hitching his wagon to him and they will [hopefully not] end up going down with the ship together.

Wow it's week 4, wtf did I just write?
 
And to pile on: We've got a 1 dimensional "defensive line specialist" HC and an invisible D line that is one of the most expensive in the league. Aren't these guys supposed to at least be able to coach up their position of specialty? I get that he's not about to go over to the sidelines and sit with the QBs and break down every snap with them, but shouldn't we have a LITTLE better bang for our buck specifically with this position? It's like when Todd Bowles, secondary guru, gets hired and our first 2 top 40 picks have to be burnt on safeties instead of truly indispensable positions while letting the HC coach up 'lesser' players.
 
sheerterror said:
Dr. Octopus said:
I mean churning through coaches/GMs every 2/3 seasons isn’t working - but nothing really has. At some point the team has no choice. Unfortunately if Saleh goes (and that means Wilson has failed) Douglas isn’t surviving either.

ETA: I’m in no way suggesting Saleh should be fired. I was looking ahead if it continues in this way.
Click to expand...
As soon as we get one that's worth keeping more than 2-3 seasons, I think they'll be here. It's crazy how many staffs we run through, but I'll continue to argue that IMO the only coach who was let go 'too early' in the last 2 decades was Mangini. Rex and Bowles both wore out their welcomes 1-2 seasons before they were finally fired, but held on long enough because we were JUST mediocre enough for ownership to think we could actually take the next step (lol). Gase could have been dumped after year 1 in hindsight when you coupled that disaster with his Miami carryover, but even then we gave him that second year to really tank everything. Now we've got Saleh who is looking as incompetent as the rest. Don't believe he'll be gone after this year, but IMO that will mean that JD is truly hitching his wagon to him and they will [hopefully not] end up going down with the ship together.

Wow it's week 4, wtf did I just write?
Click to expand...

The worst part is that we get these coaches that have their systems and aren't willing to bend it to fit the strength of the players we already have. So, Gase had his vertical game and we drafted Mims and Perine. Then we shift to Saleh/MLF, so we need an offensive line that can move and defensive players were drafted to fit Saleh's system. We even drafted safeties that could be converted to LBs due to it. Then the guys drafted for Gase no longer fit. I can't wait for the next coach to have a completely different system and player fit.

Luckily/hopefully the top guys we drafted should be system proof (G Will, Hall, Sauce, etc.).

I just wish that the current staff wasn't so stubborn in the belief of their system/ways. Let Q WIlliams play more than 60%. Stop rotating in jags. Maybe play J Johnson more.
They are also completely missing the boat with this miscommunication thing. When multiple players are complaining about it, then there is an issue...one that they are not willing to admit publicly. It's a bad look.

JD doesn't get a pass either. I think JD got exposed again with a few short-sighted moves. Yeah, his trades are great and his current picks seem good, but relying on oft-injured Becton with no one behind him and Joyner who missed all of last year and hadn't played safety in a few years. We have no depth at Tackle or Safety..... Not exactly shocking that we have problems at tackle and safety.

JFM has been stealing money since he got that contract, too.
 
good discussion so far...

ZW isthe only hope - a lot of pressure for him but hes the #2 overall pick. Hoping his mobility will cover up the OL issue at least a little. If ZW falls on is face it will be a disaster. Not many options out there in FA and I cant fathom drafting a 3rd top 5 pick QB in 6 yrs.

All the criticism on Saleh here is fair - i really dont want to start over again - unless this year turns into a complete disaster he'll get another year but man am I concerned

JD - the OL thing is a bit over blown - i could see the Becton's health possibly being in question but he spent some $ on Brown who has been the picture of health for yrs until he put on the green and white. The franchise needs some stability - I think JD deserves to stay and take another swing at QB vs Saleh who has shown nothing.
 
I think Saleh is doing fine. He took over a pathetic franchise and now they are at least competitive.

they seem like a team on the ascent to me….
 
Dr. Octopus said:
Kiddnets said:
JD - the OL thing is a bit over blow
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Agreed. You can’t fill every hole, every off-season. People whining about not drafting a top OT can tell me who are they giving up…Sauce?….G Wilson…J Johnson?
Those guys look very good so far.
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There was a bit of talk about perhaps the Jets grabbing a T with one of the 1st 2 picks - but remember at the time you had a "heathy" Becton so it would be tough to bench a top 10 pick or Becton under the circ. When Becton went down JD spent big $ on another T who promptly got hurt. Thats 2 starting LTs.....now add Fant and its literally a disaster. Any team would be a horror show with that - its terrible luck....only criticism I had was Id have liked him to re-sign Moses for the $ he got - but maybe Moses wanted to be a clear starter and not come back....cant kill JD on the OL

I can criticize Saleh/OC for not adjusting the gameplan with quicker routes and drop backs to not expose the OL so much - hoping ZWs mobility helps that a bit - lot to expect from the kid in a tough place to play with a decimated OL - it seems like its always something
 
Kiddnets said:
I can criticize Saleh/OC for not adjusting the gameplan with quicker routes and drop backs to not expose the OL so much
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They have the receivers to run an offense like this - so long as Wilson's accuracy improves. Moore, Wilson, Berrios and the RBs excel after the catch.
 
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And now our DC, who has run the worst unit in the league 2 years in a row....is throwing his best player under the bus claiming he was "gasping for air" (as a reason why Q can't play more snaps)

Really hope they upgrade next year. Ulbrich stinks.
 
I don't follow the day-to-day and ins-and-outs like you guys do, so I'll leave all the bickering and questioning that befits the back pages of the dailies to you guys.

I'll tell you what I see from the Jets, including the Cincinnati game. A vastly improved team. One to not be thoroughly angry at and questioning every move when I see them play on Sunday. It's weird to be an optimist, and that all might go out the window with the offensive line banged up and Zach coming back behind it, but you have to admit we at least were able to move a ball a bit down the field the past few weeks. We looked somewhat competent on offense, as if a ten-yard gain wasn't akin to or indebted to a Hail Mary we asked of our God for the football squad.

Things are going terribly in the trenches, it seems, but the future looks bright at other positions. It's something to hang one's hat on. If we give Joe D a mulligan for 2020, he's put together a unit that is at least in games. Remember back when Darnold got hurt in 2020? Those were dark days. We didn't even have a backup that could move the ball more than five yards per half. And Darnold, as we know, was no improvement.

So I think back to where we were just a few short years ago, and I'm appreciative that we're light years ahead of that. If Saleh stinks (and I was never sold on that hire for reasons that I was raked across the coals for in these threads) then he needs to go. But we can't clear house at GM when we've just started to move from a laughingstock to a stock of talent. I'd be awfully wary of pointing out guys that need to go lest it lead to firings within the entire organization/front office. I'm a firm believer that the GM needs to stay. If that means one more year of Saleh, so be it. If Saleh wants his guys his way, show him the door. Draft your guys for their talents, not for a Shanahan-inspired system. But I'm worried we're throwing the baby out with the bathwater if we fire Saleh. Douglas would be next in line to have his head on the chopping block, so careful what one wishes for is what I'm saying.

That's my two cents for the Saturday day before the Sunday game. Lot of hope. Let's hope Wilson doesn't crush it with ineptitude behind a crumbling line.

Dammit, I want to see miracles!
 
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Dr. Octopus said:
rockaction said:
Dr. Octopus said:
I think we get a win this week. Baby steps.
Click to expand...

I really hope so.
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Pittsburgh is a tough spot to play but with Watt out and Trubisky starting, the game is winnable.
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i dont care who is out or below par for the Steelers - winning in Pitt is a tall order for any team let alone a very young QBs 1st game of the yr. Im looking for a solid day from wilson and a close game....if they win its gravy.
 
Kiddnets said:
Im looking for a solid day from wilson and a close game....if they win its gravy.
Click to expand...

That's all I'm hoping for. Actually, all I care about this year is the hope beyond hope that we stumble into a franchise quarterback or at least see development towards that. Anything less will be a letdown. That said, if everybody else plays well, then we know what we need to do to remedy the situation with the team, which is entirely dependent on a functioning QB. Because with the whole offseason at his back, the first thing Zach did in preseason is throw into what appeared to be fairly diagnosable coverage for an INT, something that was overshadowed by the knee.
 
Kiddnets said:
Dr. Octopus said:
rockaction said:
Dr. Octopus said:
I think we get a win this week. Baby steps.
Click to expand...

I really hope so.
Click to expand...
Pittsburgh is a tough spot to play but with Watt out and Trubisky starting, the game is winnable.
Click to expand...
i dont care who is out or below par for the Steelers - winning in Pitt is a tall order for any team let alone a very young QBs 1st game of the yr. Im looking for a solid day from wilson and a close game....if they win its gravy.
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Absolutely. Former Heinz Field is no joke.

I’m not saying the Jets are necessarily good enough to do it yet, but this is the weakest Pittsburgh team in a while. The Jets should feel like they can win it, because they can.

Now, of course I agree with both of you. This year is almost 100% about seeing what we have in Wilson. I’m hoping he’s at worst, good enough. I do like how the rookies are looking. I like that Wilson, Moore and Hall are three guys that can do damage in a good offense. There’s signs. Let’s go out and even the record up and see what happens.
 
yup, finding out what they have in Wilson is really pretty much all this season is about. (obviously you want to see the other young pieces succeed, but if Wilson stinks, nothing else matters) Can he be a top 10 QB in the league in 2-3 years? (with improvement towards that level every season). I dont think you can win a title (or seriously compete) in today's NFL without a top 10 guy.

2-3 years from now(assuming everyone is healthy), I think there's probably 7 guys he has very little to almost no chance to be better than....

Mahomes
Allen
Jackson
Burrow
Lawrence
Herbert
Watson

Brady, Matt Ryan and Rodgers will PROBABLY be done. Guys like Stafford, Cousins and Tannehill will all be near the end. So then it comes down to where he is compared to guys like Dak, Carr, Murray, Tua, Hurts and all the younger guys (Mac, Fields, Lance, rookies still to come, etc.) that are still TBD.

If he falls into the back of the top 10, we've got a shot. If he's a 13-18 guy...you REALLY need everything else to break right. Beyond that, you're in purgatory. (especially once you have to pay him)
 
Wilson wasn’t perfect but he showed a ton of improvement. Going into Heinz and leading the Jets to 2 4Q TDs is impressive. The questions haven’t been answered yet but it’s a nice first draft.
 
Dr. Octopus said:
Wilson wasn’t perfect but he showed a ton of improvement. Going into Heinz and leading the Jets to 2 4Q TDs is impressive. The questions haven’t been answered yet but it’s a nice first draft.
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Zach doing his own version of The Good, The Bad and The Ugly all in one game. But have to hand it to the kid in his first game back - he delivered when it mattered.
 
Not trying to be be negative. They won the game on the road and Zach came through in the clutch.

But they needed 2 Pickett picks to have a chance and Zach looked like garbage for most of the game. Same stuff as always. Missing easy short ones, overthrowing guys over the middle(leading to picks), bad decisions(leading to picks) We know he can make some big throws, but he really will have to become more consistent. They have enough weapons that he just needs to get them the ball (even Corey Davis appears to be stepping up)

O-line still in shambles and now Mitchell is probably out for a while (if not the season). So lets see what happens now. If Brown can't come back and play, is AVT the permanent (at least for this year) LT?

Obviously ecstatic about the win but man was this a nightmare for my quickly dying fantasy team. Sauce(what a stud that kid is) shuts down Dionte Johnson (on my team), Najee (also on my team) gets vultured TWICE by the rookie and then Hall (my opponent's team) scores the winner.
 
Thought it was a great win against an admittedly already weak opponent who wasn't at full strength.

But I saw leaps and bounds in improvement by Zach. Let's hope he keeps up his end of the learning curve. Those last few drives, when he got time, were a thing of beauty. Those were chunk gains. And that's going to be the key -- when he has time. And that's not to excuse sacks that are on the quarterback because he isn't reading through progressions correctly or swiftly, it's simply that the offensive line is decimated by injuries. We'll see how it holds in the upcoming weeks. And he needs to work on placement and touch of his swing passes. They're admittedly a weakness of his, both last year and this. Those are the kind of things that make a guy look bad when in reality, it's a hiccup and bugaboo that doesn't affect his throwing the ball downfield.

As for the rest of the team, there were rookie mistakes all over, which is to be expected, but the late hits need to stop. I think that the "all gas no brakes" motto needed a major caveat.

All in all, great win. Couldn't have asked for more but offensive line health.
 
TLEF316 said:
Zach looked like garbage for most of the game
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This is patently untrue unless we watched different games. When he wasn't running for his life or handing off for no gain on first down setting up second and long, he was on top of ****. Yes, he missed a few chip throws, but that's what you live with when you take the whole package into consideration.

They had chunk plays in the first half very frequently and the troubles only started once the line collapsed for a time. Once they got their stuff together, he was totally unflappable and on point.

Perhaps my bar is too low, but I saw a totally different QB than what I saw last year.
 
I saw 2 really bad picks and at least 3 missed chip shots.

I just don't like the idea of potentially writing off everything bad he does this year because of the Oline and i have w bad feeling thats where we might be headed

It's a real problem but a guy drafted #2 overall is expected to make chicken salad out of chicken **** sometimes.
 
rockaction said:
TLEF316 said:
Zach looked like garbage for most of the game
Click to expand...

This is patently untrue unless we watched different games. When he wasn't running for his life or handing off for no gain on first down setting up second and long, he was on top of ****. Yes, he missed a few chip throws, but that's what you live with when you take the whole package into consideration.

They had chunk plays in the first half very frequently and the troubles only started once the line collapsed for a time. Once they got their stuff together, he was totally unflappable and on point.

Perhaps my bar is too low, but I saw a totally different QB than what I saw last year.
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He was inconsistent early. He made some very nice throws, and missed some badly. Not sure why the short passing game is so difficult for him. Agree though he was not garbage. He was adequate at worst most of the game and then looke very poised in the 4Q and let’s face it, unlike Cleveland that was a real comeback.
 
TLEF316 said:
I saw 2 really bad picks and at least 3 missed chip shots.

I just don't like the idea of potentially writing off everything bad he does this year because of the Oline and i have w bad feeling thats where we might be headed

It's a real problem but a guy drafted #2 overall is expected to make chicken salad out of chicken **** sometimes.
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The first pick was mostly on Conklin. I don’t think we’re making excuses for him, but I also don’t want to ignore his 4Q or overstate how bad he was, even with the bad circumstances.
 
sheerterror said:
Is it me or does he need to take some zip off of some of his passes (especially the shorter ones)? Feels like a ton of balls are bouncing off guys hands and he could stand to put a little more touch on some of these throws.
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He’s still a bit jumpy and frenetic out there. As he gets more experience, I think he’ll settle in, although the ongoing patchwork OL isn’t going to make that settling in process easy.
 
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