2022 Philadelphia Eagles - Leave Gannon in Arizona and let’s run through the NFC again in 2023. (3 Viewers)

[DJackson10]

Peyton was already a machine as talent. Anyone giving up on him would be stupid.

Of course it turned out that way, but for the first 5 years of his career he couldn't win a playoff game. Not one till he was 27. There were a lot of questions in PMs early career if he could ever win in the post season. His first 3 trips to the post-season, Manning absolutely stunk it up. He had 1 TD pass his first 3 trips.

With Hurts and LJ we're talking about 24 and 25 year olds. Two players are doing very well in the regular season.

I think Tony Romo and Peyton Manning both had the same issue. They both understood too well how HUGE the moments were and they crumbled under the pressure. Manning just had a much better pedigree and more talent so he overcame those nutchecks. Romo shat his pants in most of them. Theres obviously some other factors but lets not get lost in the weeds defending that loser Romo.

Yeah I think it takes a certain maturity level to succeed in the post-season. Obviously Hurts wasn't ready for it last year. But hey, he was only 23 and a first year starter. I don't think that's an indictment on how he'll always be in the post-season.

FWIW, I don't think you're making that claim. Some people are.

I don't think it was maturity as much as TB took out what made him and the Eagles effective. They dared him to throw and got rid of his first read and thats when he runs into the trouble. He's improved as a passer this year but is that just a fluke or is he really coming into his own as a passer is where the skeptiscim is. Teams are going to do what they did last year to him in the playoffs. Its up to Hurts to show he's improved reading defenses and as a passer. Last years performance was an absolute abomination no reason to even defend why he sucked last year. It was terrible. Use any adjective to say it was bad there. The important thing is figuring out if he improved on that or not.

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

I just know from what I've heard the concussion was worse then people said it was. One of my coworkers son was an assistant coach and she told me and later on Kelce's Father in Law who does my security cameras mentioned very similar. The whole team was worried about him. One of the media members I know even mentioned this but a lot in the media didn't want to put out something if the team was trying to protect Carson there. it was a serious matter. if Carson had brought it up or said something to someone in the media while having a 1 on 1 talk maybe it'd have been out there. But he never looked the same after he blew his ACL and then that Concussion ten folded it. I've only thought about this the last 6 months or so though. It'd be something to look into overall.

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

There could be something to that. The Wentz timeline:
2017: MVP level play, ACL injury
2018: never 100% from injury, messed up his back
2019: took team to playoffs with scrubs at WR, cheap shot in the playoffs to his head
2020 to today: just a terrible QB constantly playing hero ball and taking bad sacks/making bad decisions

Time line matches up with everything IMO though. Its why I keep defending the guy. I don't think he sucks or had one fluke season. I think at this point it's a lot more mental then physical. It's at least worth taking a chance on the physiology route if it hasn't. If this hasn't people aren't doing their job to the best of their ability. If I was on staff Id go to higher ups with it unless I was allowed to talk to him myself before bringing it up. Wouldn't want to offend either side in terms of professionalism as it is a personal matter that is sensitive given the environment they are in.

 

[DJackson10]

Thanks to a great defense and he was playing in a college gimmick offense people figured out. He had a great Offensive Line and Run game too.

How many successful playoff teams had bad defenses, offensive lines and no running game? I mean, we are talking about the ultimate team sport.

Certain players can combat that or teams overall. The QBs wise I'm mentioning need those things to succeed because they never developed well as passers. Make those guys pocket passers and you'll win. This is what I was saying about TENN the other day. I hope Willis played because if we put 8-9 in the box and stop the run and force them to throw we should win. Malik Willis can't hit the broad side of a barn. Great overall athlete but I have no worries of him as a passer. Force them to do something till they hurt you. No different then giving space to Ben Simmons and daring him to hit jump shots. If he makes one or 2 can't worry about it if he misses 12 others.

This is what I was alluding to earlier.

Player A: Passes the ball 90% of the time, runs 10% of the time. He can't run away from defenders but has some wiggle and elusiveness to slide up into the pocket or to the side and he knows to throw the ball away and live another down.

Player B: Passes the ball 60% of the time, runs 40%. As the arm strength but anytime he gets in trouble he knows he can always rely on his legs to get him out of trouble and has many, many, many times.


Its the last game of the regular season.... Your team is down 4 with 8 seconds left and youre at the 35 yard line. Who do you want to throw the ball?

I'm taking A. I'm more so enamored if I can get a Andrew Luck/Wentz/Mahomes/Herbert/Rodgers type then just a traditional passer and statue legs like a Brady. Game has involved so I'd like more of a guy like Rodgers etc then Brady but would take them over a Vick Lamar Jackson. Its why it was also so dumb for SEA not to run it at the GL vs NE in the SB. I got more faith in Lynch making the TD then Wilson trying to pass for it.

Not sure why people are even surprised by Wilson either. It was scheme coach for yrs. He's past his prime now so he's gonna struggle more.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Yall dont wanna really have this conversation so I wont press it and ramp up the drama.

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

Wasting your time gb. If you want to post in this thread without being attacked you have to do it one hand in your keyboard and the other on the eagles nut sack.
They even attack their own. I rarely agree with anything @DJackson10 posts. That said all of his posts in this thread about Hurts have been thoughtful and make sense. Doesn’t matter.

Never seen anything like it tbh

 

[Terpman22]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

@STEADYMOBBIN 22 You've actually been so much more objective, friendly, and a much better poster over the last couple years and are usually a nice change from other Dallas fans in here, but this stuff is pretty contrary to all of that.

1. @The Noid is one of the most knowledgeable and level headed fans I've seen on these boards. He'll give credit or criticism where it's due, and is bringing up a lot of stats and numbers that it seems you're just simply ignoring. I do hope you come around on that.

2. No one here is even saying that Hurts is the best QB in the league, but it seems like you and Djax are acting like we are worshiping the ground he walks on. In fact, listen to all the professionals, analysts, writers, etc out there, everyone is saying how great he is doing. Yes they're not all smart, but these people do this for a living so if there's such a unanimous thought on him, it might be worth listening to)

3. Not sure if you've followed along, but your defense of Djax is strange given how you seem to be a pretty observant poster lately. Every time Jalen had a great play (I'm sure even you will admit he's had some great plays, right?), his response is "wow what a blown coverage!". It's clear as day that no matter WHAT happens, he'll find an issue with Hurts. That's not 'blasting someone for his opinion".... that's being annoyed at someone who is so obsessed with being right that nothing in the world would change his mind. I know you're bright enough that you can at least see that, and understand where the criticism of his posts come from.

4. I don't love all the "well your qb sucks too" back and forth stuff that some fans are giving you about the Cowboys. Don't think that's really relevant. I think it just seems convenient that you're a Cowboys fan and one of 2 people who are voicing all these doubts/complaints/skeptical thoughts/etc about Hurts (and the other is well known for digging in as hard as he can). If you were a Steelers or Bengals fan, I doubt you'd be here posting pages of negative things about a 2nd round QB who is the MVP frontrunner and has his team at 10-1 (And no, please don't twist that as me/us thinking he is the best qb in the league or that vegas odds mean he's the best).

Hope you come around, you have in the past and it's been refreshing.

Appreciate the kind words. Ill address each by number:

1) I haven't ignored his numbers - I can find some to fit my narrative, (such as Hurts throwing the 3rd least amount of passes over 20 yards or if numbers mean everything, does this mean that Hurts is better than Rodgers since his number suck? Of course not.) Numbers dont mean everything but some people state them as if they're an end-all to the whole picture. Im not finished with that post yet.

2) Well if we arent allowed to be objective and can only say the positives and pretend there are no negatives, it does indeed seem like you guys are worshipping the ground he works on. Heaven forbid I try and offer constructive criticism of his skills Ill get labeled a hater. I think I have been incredibly complimentary of him while still providing honest takes on his talent. I am truly impressed by his game and willingness to become a better player. I think thats actually his most impressive trait, second only to his running ability.

3) I like DJax. Much like Hurts, he isnt perfect. He's incredibly judgmental, critical, stubborn and he hasn't become "self aware" as I like to call it but he is very smart, he has impeccable morals and I just think hes a good egg. I enjoy my interactions with him. I admit I have a soft spot for him so I am biased.

4) Agreed on the first part (about the anti cowboys/Prescott stuff not being relevant). I can understand why you would say that Im biased and maybe I am predisposed to be more critical of other teams in the division but you'll have to take my word for it, when the game isn't on, I couldn't care less about that stuff. I simply pay attention to the Skins, Giants and Eagles more on Sundays.


I come in this thread because Ive grown to like you guys. I love your passion. I like how active you guys are. The Cowboys thread is virtually nonexistent I just want to talk football and I want to discuss it with others who love the sport as I do or once did. I think now I just love the idea of the sport and how I would run things but thats another story.

The only guys Ive actually not had a down to earth conversation is that JetMaxx dude. Terman22 can be obnoxious, but so can I and his last post showed me he can be cool.

It isnt that I dislike Hurts, in fact the more I learn about him the more I respect him. His personality is.....bland. But I dont find him to be unlikeable.

For the record, I am definitely, by all accounts, a Cowboys hater just fyi. I can respect the hate if its warranted haha. As Eagles fans, we sure see a whole lot of "Hurts isn't as good as you think he is" takes this year that just were not there last year. Its all in good fun.

 

[jon007]

The most entertaining thing I've done in this thread this year is mute Djax, and I still know what he's talking about based on comments.

I can't wait until Christmas Eve gets here.

Eagles @ Cowboys

 

[jasvic]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

There could be something to that. The Wentz timeline:
2017: MVP level play, ACL injury
2018: never 100% from injury, messed up his back
2019: took team to playoffs with scrubs at WR, cheap shot in the playoffs to his head
2020 to today: just a terrible QB constantly playing hero ball and taking bad sacks/making bad decisions

Time line matches up with everything IMO though. Its why I keep defending the guy. I don't think he sucks or had one fluke season. I think at this point it's a lot more mental then physical. It's at least worth taking a chance on the physiology route if it hasn't. If this hasn't people aren't doing their job to the best of their ability. If I was on staff Id go to higher ups with it unless I was allowed to talk to him myself before bringing it up. Wouldn't want to offend either side in terms of professionalism as it is a personal matter that is sensitive given the environment they are in.

The mental side is huge for a QB. The reasons why he got there don't really matter. Objectively, Wentz has sucked for three seasons now. It's who he is. Like most things mental, people have to want to change, you can't force it. And he's shown he has no desire to change and thinks everything is fine. Damn shame, but that's the reality.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

if you think he's already developed into a "high-level" passer then we going to just have to agree to disagree.

You have a litany of PASSING stats that were laid out that factually put his current performance this season among the top of all the QBs, but you disagree that he is performing as a high-level passer. So you either choose to believe those facts are wrong or you want to discount them to fit your agenda. Someone should coin a word for that...

I think SteadyMobbin is calling this year a fluke...a la the RGIII year. Only time will tell if he's right or wrong.

Not at all. They are an incredibly well-put-together team. Very good Oline, probably collectively the best DLine. Great receiving corp. One of the best CBs in the league and above average LBs.

I also have praised the lunatic head coach of yours. I think hes a brilliant offensive mind.

But Im just a hater.

keep it up bud. you may get nominated for hater of the year.

Chappelle's Show - The Playa Haters' Ball (ft. Ice T and Patrice O'Neal)

Once a year, all the Playa Haters get together to honor the most prestigious verbal abusers on the planet.About Chappelle’s Show: It’s not just a show – it’s...

www.youtube.com

A 19-year-old reference! Since you guys love the Cowboys and old jokes, lets combine it. That skit is almost as old as the Cowboys SB VHS tapes!!!!!

lolz

@STEADYMOBBIN 22 You've actually been so much more objective, friendly, and a much better poster over the last couple years and are usually a nice change from other Dallas fans in here, but this stuff is pretty contrary to all of that.

1. @The Noid is one of the most knowledgeable and level headed fans I've seen on these boards. He'll give credit or criticism where it's due, and is bringing up a lot of stats and numbers that it seems you're just simply ignoring. I do hope you come around on that.

2. No one here is even saying that Hurts is the best QB in the league, but it seems like you and Djax are acting like we are worshiping the ground he walks on. In fact, listen to all the professionals, analysts, writers, etc out there, everyone is saying how great he is doing. Yes they're not all smart, but these people do this for a living so if there's such a unanimous thought on him, it might be worth listening to)

3. Not sure if you've followed along, but your defense of Djax is strange given how you seem to be a pretty observant poster lately. Every time Jalen had a great play (I'm sure even you will admit he's had some great plays, right?), his response is "wow what a blown coverage!". It's clear as day that no matter WHAT happens, he'll find an issue with Hurts. That's not 'blasting someone for his opinion".... that's being annoyed at someone who is so obsessed with being right that nothing in the world would change his mind. I know you're bright enough that you can at least see that, and understand where the criticism of his posts come from.

4. I don't love all the "well your qb sucks too" back and forth stuff that some fans are giving you about the Cowboys. Don't think that's really relevant. I think it just seems convenient that you're a Cowboys fan and one of 2 people who are voicing all these doubts/complaints/skeptical thoughts/etc about Hurts (and the other is well known for digging in as hard as he can). If you were a Steelers or Bengals fan, I doubt you'd be here posting pages of negative things about a 2nd round QB who is the MVP frontrunner and has his team at 10-1 (And no, please don't twist that as me/us thinking he is the best qb in the league or that vegas odds mean he's the best).

Hope you come around, you have in the past and it's been refreshing.

Appreciate the kind words. Ill address each by number:

1) I haven't ignored his numbers - I can find some to fit my narrative, (such as Hurts throwing the 3rd least amount of passes over 20 yards or if numbers mean everything, does this mean that Hurts is better than Rodgers since his number suck? Of course not.) Numbers dont mean everything but some people state them as if they're an end-all to the whole picture. Im not finished with that post yet.

2) Well if we arent allowed to be objective and can only say the positives and pretend there are no negatives, it does indeed seem like you guys are worshipping the ground he works on. Heaven forbid I try and offer constructive criticism of his skills Ill get labeled a hater. I think I have been incredibly complimentary of him while still providing honest takes on his talent. I am truly impressed by his game and willingness to become a better player. I think thats actually his most impressive trait, second only to his running ability.

3) I like DJax. Much like Hurts, he isnt perfect. He's incredibly judgmental, critical, stubborn and he hasn't become "self aware" as I like to call it but he is very smart, he has impeccable morals and I just think hes a good egg. I enjoy my interactions with him. I admit I have a soft spot for him so I am biased.

4) Agreed on the first part (about the anti cowboys/Prescott stuff not being relevant). I can understand why you would say that Im biased and maybe I am predisposed to be more critical of other teams in the division but you'll have to take my word for it, when the game isn't on, I couldn't care less about that stuff. I simply pay attention to the Skins, Giants and Eagles more on Sundays.


I come in this thread because Ive grown to like you guys. I love your passion. I like how active you guys are. The Cowboys thread is virtually nonexistent I just want to talk football and I want to discuss it with others who love the sport as I do or once did. I think now I just love the idea of the sport and how I would run things but thats another story.

The only guys Ive actually not had a down to earth conversation is that JetMaxx dude. Terman22 can be obnoxious, but so can I and his last post showed me he can be cool.

It isnt that I dislike Hurts, in fact the more I learn about him the more I respect him. His personality is.....bland. But I dont find him to be unlikeable.

For the record, I am definitely, by all accounts, a Cowboys hater just fyi. I can respect the hate if its warranted haha. As Eagles fans, we sure see a whole lot of "Hurts isn't as good as you think he is" takes this year that just were not there last year. Its all in good fun.

When the game is on I agree. I say that Im not going to get emotional but after a few beers and a few plays in Im screaming at the TV like Im still 15.

Last year you didnt get many "we sure see a whole lot of "Hurts isn't as good as you think he is" takes " because he sucked a bag of dicks last year. Hes been very good this year so all credit to him and the staff. He has a lot of talent around him but I dont like discounting a players performance because of that.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

The most entertaining thing I've done in this thread this year is mute Djax, and I still know what he's talking about based on comments.

I can't wait until Christmas Eve gets here.

Eagles @ Cowboys

Oh we can't wait either GB. Looking forward to playing you guys with our starting QB and a second look against your team. (ala the Redskins)

 

[Pigskin Fanatic]

Jordan Davis practice window opened.

twitterverse link

Jordan Davis said he’s lost 20 pounds over the past four weeks. Said his conditioning was a focus with the training and strength staff. He felt like he was playing at a fast level today during practice

 

[Tom Hagen]

There are still some legit questions about Hurts accuracy and ability to go through his progressions but I have no doubt that his coaches and teammates love and trust him and that has to be a factor in evaluating him.

I missed this yesterday. I don't think you once anyone has seen me put out this in the bold negatively. However lets go a bit further. Your coaches and teammates could love you but if you aren't producing it on the field thats what matters. There's multiple teammates who absolutely hate Tom Brady. I've heard it all from Tom is a ****ing prick, Brady is an ******* but he got me a ring, Brady is that guy you can tolerate all his ******** and prima donna ******** when you are winning but if you got a guy like that when you are losing he's hard to stomach. A few guys from what I've heard were pretty upset with how he handled the whole Jimmy G situation. Thought it was just a bad situation that wasn't Jimmy's fault. They were glad Bill went out and put him somewhere he knew he'd trust someone with Jimmy In Kyle Shanahan. Players will play for coaches who do that.

It's like Lebron James to a certain extent same personality. I remember talking to St Joe's Jameer Nelson who I knew through a coworker of mine as he dated his cousin who worked with us and would see him around. Just saying things yeah Lebron can be a real ******* but guys will tolerate it when they are winning. When they lose it's a different story. Look at Lakers now for that example.

So yes the bolded is part of the evaluation but that can go both ways. Another example is Micheal Jordan. Similar personality teammates played for him because they knew they'd win with him.

You intentionally cut out part of my post to remove context. I was comparing him to a Zach Wilson who has lost the locker room by the way he handles himself. Of course teammates don't need to love the QB but the QB needs to earn respect by being accountable and showing his teammates he isn't overwhelmed by the moment.

 

[renesauz]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

To be fair....I don't find this take, as described in this post, as unfair. I had serious doubts re. Hurts pre-season. At this point I've put them to bed, but I don't find serious fault with those who have doubts it can be sustained. Where I (and others here) have taken exception is the tone and take often given by Djax (and eerily echoed by you in some of your posts today and yesterday) that downgrade what he's actually accomplished, and set bars and standards that are, quite honestly, absurd. Often it seems that you guys want several years of play reminiscent of HOFs before accepting he's for real.

He may fall off like Wentz or RG3, but right now, today....he looks fantastic. And he's very young....with the same OC first the first time in his post HS life. He's putting up Pro Bowl numbers and is in the MVP discussion....as a SECOND YEAR starter. Even the "haters" (not liking that word either in the context) have to admit this isn't a great time to get hyper-critical. (And again, to be fair, my issue re. this have been mostly with DJax, who I often agreed with re. Hurts before the season really got going)

 

[renesauz]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

How is not a fair question?

How many running QB's have won a SB, Ill hang up and listen.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Not trying to put words in your mouth, but this is what I read from all that you wrote the last two days: Hurts may have the stats of a high-level passer, but he isn't really a high-level passer. He is only performing like one because of how good he is as a runner.

At this stage of his career, without a mutha ****ing doubt. right now he is a capable passer who is working within the scheme. He is NOT an elite passer. Look man, you dont have to like my opinion. Its mine and I own it.

I read an interesting take in the World Cup thread. The USA does not produce elite soccer players despite the population because we raise them as part-time players up until they go pro, whereas in other nations the players dedicate their life to soccer at 14. Same theory with this. I just prefer my QBs to be naturally gifted passers, not guys who are naturally gifted runners who try to develop their passing game in the late stage of their career in the NFL.

Ive praised him. Ive pointed out all his positives. Because you disagree with me, Im a hater.

So by your broad definition, doesnt that also make you a hater?

To be fair....I don't find this take, as described in this post, as unfair. I had serious doubts re. Hurts pre-season. At this point I've put them to bed, but I don't find serious fault with those who have doubts it can be sustained. Where I (and others here) have taken exception is the tone and take often given by Djax (and eerily echoed by you in some of your posts today and yesterday) that downgrade what he's actually accomplished, and set bars and standards that are, quite honestly, absurd. Often it seems that you guys want several years of play reminiscent of HOFs before accepting he's for real.

He may fall off like Wentz or RG3, but right now, today....he looks fantastic. And he's very young....with the same OC first the first time in his post HS life. He's putting up Pro Bowl numbers and is in the MVP discussion....as a SECOND YEAR starter. Even the "haters" (not liking that word either in the context) have to admit this isn't a great time to get hyper-critical. (And again, to be fair, my issue re. this have been mostly with DJax, who I often agreed with re. Hurts before the season really got going)

The take you agree with is exactly the same thing you said you didnt agree with later in this very post.

 

[renesauz]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

How is not a fair question?

How many running QB's have won a SB, Ill hang up and listen.

The changes to the game aren't really that old yet. And is it fair to label him as simply a "running QB"? When I think "runing QB" I think of guys who run first and are average at best passing. Hurts is showing himself above average this year as a passer. What I said was there's no reason an elite runner/GOOD passer can't win now....you don't have to be an elite passer/GOOD runner (aka Rodgers) to win. And to be fair....given his progression so far and his work ethic, HUrts can still get better

 

[fatness]

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

To be fair, you also said last year that in Taylor Heinicke, Washingon had found its QB for the future.

 

[The Noid]

Signed Xmas albums at the Pro Shop this weekend.

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

How is not a fair question?

How many running QB's have won a SB, Ill hang up and listen.

The changes to the game aren't really that old yet. And is it fair to label him as simply a "running QB"? When I think "runing QB" I think of guys who run first and are average at best passing. Hurts is showing himself above average this year as a passer. What I said was there's no reason an elite runner/GOOD passer can't win now....you don't have to be an elite passer/GOOD runner (aka Rodgers) to win. And to be fair....given his progression so far and his work ethic, HUrts can still get better

I said I think he can win a SB.

@Cowboysfan8 I see what you mean now.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

How is not a fair question?

How many running QB's have won a SB, Ill hang up and listen.

The changes to the game aren't really that old yet. And is it fair to label him as simply a "running QB"? When I think "runing QB" I think of guys who run first and are average at best passing. Hurts is showing himself above average this year as a passer. What I said was there's no reason an elite runner/GOOD passer can't win now....you don't have to be an elite passer/GOOD runner (aka Rodgers) to win. And to be fair....given his progression so far and his work ethic, HUrts can still get better

I said I think he can win a SB.

@Cowboysfan8 I see what you mean now.

HATER !!!!!!!!!1111!!!!!!

 

[STEADYMOBBIN 22]

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

To be fair, you also said last year that in Taylor Heinicke, Washingon had found its QB for the future.

Well, well, well. Welcome to the convo Fatty. Nice of you to chime in outta nowhere.


As I said in that thread, you guys don’t deserve that boy. He’s salvaged your season and you want nothing to do with him.

If you guys think Diax and I are being hard on Hurts, get a load of those dudes in the Commies thread.

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am recording saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

Wentz was absolutely on his way to an MVP season, till he had a devastating injury and never returned to the same level. There are some within the Eagles organization and possibly the Colts as well that Wentz's biggest problem became coachability. I think something happened between the ears with Wentz after the team won the SB without him. Just my opinion of course.

And I haven't called you a hater. We have our own fans that planted the flag of him not being an NFL QB before the season started and can't move off that opinion.

Coachability and I think he lost his confidence as well. I keep saying this but no one wants to talk about the concussion. Most won't know but it was more serious then the team, himself and others led on. There was talk if the Eagles made the SB if Wentz would even pass thats how bad it was. They even brought his wife down from their box to the locker room which teams only do for a serious serious injury. The hit I think did a lot to him physiologically. I'd be interested in seeing how he takes to a sports Phsycologist or if anyone has suggested this at all. There's numerous athletes who have gone this route and came back like nothing ever happened. I noticed after that hit he didn't seem as confident with his ability as he once was. He looks like he's trying to play too safe and not get hurt and thats a huge issue. My Grandfather pulled my Uncle/Godfather off the field for this as you can hurt yourself even worse doing this.

This is interesting to me. I don't remember the concussion. I have a theory that Andrew Luck suffered brain damage from all the beatings he took. A few years in he would make a terrible throw that was uncharacteristic of him and I would see him holding his head as if to say "WTF am I doing?!?!" I think it was more than being hard on himself for making a bad throw. I'd love to ask him about it.

There could be something to that. The Wentz timeline:
2017: MVP level play, ACL injury
2018: never 100% from injury, messed up his back
2019: took team to playoffs with scrubs at WR, cheap shot in the playoffs to his head
2020 to today: just a terrible QB constantly playing hero ball and taking bad sacks/making bad decisions

Time line matches up with everything IMO though. Its why I keep defending the guy. I don't think he sucks or had one fluke season. I think at this point it's a lot more mental then physical. It's at least worth taking a chance on the physiology route if it hasn't. If this hasn't people aren't doing their job to the best of their ability. If I was on staff Id go to higher ups with it unless I was allowed to talk to him myself before bringing it up. Wouldn't want to offend either side in terms of professionalism as it is a personal matter that is sensitive given the environment they are in.

The mental side is huge for a QB. The reasons why he got there don't really matter. Objectively, Wentz has sucked for three seasons now. It's who he is. Like most things mental, people have to want to change, you can't force it. And he's shown he has no desire to change and thinks everything is fine. Damn shame, but that's the reality.

what are we basing this on? Media reports, person there etc? I'm generally curious because I've learned 95% of the time the media makes up a lot of BS. I'm not saying there aren't issues but there's been a lot of ******** piled on players for yrs and people just pile on with a lot of false because it fits the agenda or easily believed with said players. I haven't heard one thing details wise if anyone has gone to Wentz seeking help by sports physiology or something of the effect.

 

[DJackson10]

There are still some legit questions about Hurts accuracy and ability to go through his progressions but I have no doubt that his coaches and teammates love and trust him and that has to be a factor in evaluating him.

I missed this yesterday. I don't think you once anyone has seen me put out this in the bold negatively. However lets go a bit further. Your coaches and teammates could love you but if you aren't producing it on the field thats what matters. There's multiple teammates who absolutely hate Tom Brady. I've heard it all from Tom is a ****ing prick, Brady is an ******* but he got me a ring, Brady is that guy you can tolerate all his ******** and prima donna ******** when you are winning but if you got a guy like that when you are losing he's hard to stomach. A few guys from what I've heard were pretty upset with how he handled the whole Jimmy G situation. Thought it was just a bad situation that wasn't Jimmy's fault. They were glad Bill went out and put him somewhere he knew he'd trust someone with Jimmy In Kyle Shanahan. Players will play for coaches who do that.

It's like Lebron James to a certain extent same personality. I remember talking to St Joe's Jameer Nelson who I knew through a coworker of mine as he dated his cousin who worked with us and would see him around. Just saying things yeah Lebron can be a real ******* but guys will tolerate it when they are winning. When they lose it's a different story. Look at Lakers now for that example.

So yes the bolded is part of the evaluation but that can go both ways. Another example is Micheal Jordan. Similar personality teammates played for him because they knew they'd win with him.

You intentionally cut out part of my post to remove context. I was comparing him to a Zach Wilson who has lost the locker room by the way he handles himself. Of course teammates don't need to love the QB but the QB needs to earn respect by being accountable and showing his teammates he isn't overwhelmed by the moment.

I didn't intentionally cut it out I wanted to put in the fact it can be a factor but if you aren't proving it on the field people aren't gonna listen to you. There's quite a few QBs in this league who are **** human beings and teammates but players played with them because of their on field talent. You can't be a hated teammate and not produce on the field. Its like the player who has too much off the field drama and doesn't produce on it. They aren't keeping you.

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

If the game has changed why does Lamar Jackson still suck in the playoffs? I wouldn't put Allen and Mahomes in that category either. I think both are elite passers who have the ability to move around the pocket ala Aaron Rodgers just a bit more athletic in terms of speed. The problem is teams people thinking they can change who a Lamar type is when they can't.

 

[DJackson10]

Signed Xmas albums at the Pro Shop this weekend.

Doubt I can get there. Wonder if they'll do online and that is probably gonna cost a fortune signed.

 

[modogg]

wow....... fun 2-3 pages in here it seems.

anyway, fun game this weekend. really intrigued to see what JG does with defensive game planning. it seems obvious to get DL penetrating and hit Henry early, so fingers crossed

 

[babydemon90]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

How is not a fair question?

How many running QB's have won a SB, Ill hang up and listen.

It's a difficult analysis - because so far the biggest predictor for winning a Super Bowl in recent history has been "Be Tom Brady". Outside that, it's really a wash. There's not that many QB's who run like Lamar, Jalen, etc... Many years there haven't been any. So picking Lamar for his three years in the playoffs and him not making the Super Bowl...like there were a TON of passing QB's in that span that also didn't win the Super Bowl.

I will say that a "running QB" who cannot pass if needed won't win - because the key thing is to be able to take what the defense gives you. Unless you're playing the 2000 Ravens, you can't stop everything. But yea - if a running QB can make the throws if needed - which is looks like Jalen is growing into the QB who can do that (and yea he might not be a finished product yet) - he can win.

 

[need2know]

wow....... fun 2-3 pages in here it seems.

anyway, fun game this weekend. really intrigued to see what JG does with defensive game planning. it seems obvious to get DL penetrating and hit Henry early, so fingers crossed

Yeah it seems like Henry and the titans oline aren't playing their best right now. We should handle them imo

 

[Terpman22]

Is the old Derrick Henry gone forever? I'm not too scared of the team, but mainly more interested to see how our Run Defense does and how we attack their run defense and/or if we just air it out since the Titans are pretty terrible against the pass.

 

[renesauz]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

If the game has changed why does Lamar Jackson still suck in the playoffs? I wouldn't put Allen and Mahomes in that category either. I think both are elite passers who have the ability to move around the pocket ala Aaron Rodgers just a bit more athletic in terms of speed. The problem is teams people thinking they can change who a Lamar type is when they can't.

I think the whole "Lamar has sucked in the playoffs" thing is a bit over-stated. It's a fairly small sample size and because it's playoffs it's by definition against above average or better competition. MANY HOF QB's have struggled for stretches of 3 or 4 playoff games, including Peyton Manning. I absolutely think the Ravens could win with Lamar....I don't think they WILL, but I think Lamar is good enough to win with given appropriate talent around him. And I believe the Hurts we've seen this year can win too.

Look....I'm not arguing with you two because you're not sold yet....that's not an unreasonable take, it really isn't. And @STEADYMOBBIN 22 has been generally reasonable in here, not unfair at all re. his take on Hurts. Where I (and many here) disagree is his defense of you specifically. Not because you aren't sold, but because you've made many unreasonable and unrealistic statements re. what it would take to sell you, and because you have absolutely been hyper-critical of Hurts in odd ways at odd times. @STEADYMOBBIN 22 has left an avenue open to be swayed, and is complementary overall....you dump on Jalen at every opportunity and have repeatedly made it clear nothing short of (multiple!) super bowl wins would sway you. You're hard headed to an absolute fault on this one.
JUST ENJOY THE RIDE BROTHER!

 

[renesauz]

I said I think he can win a SB.

@Cowboysfan8 I see what you mean now.

See post immediately above

I've always found you to be a good poster, and seem like a good dude...especially considering where your fandom lies

 

[Amused to Death]

I think the whole "Lamar has sucked in the playoffs" thing is a bit over-stated. It's a fairly small sample size and because it's playoffs it's by definition against above average or better competition. MANY HOF QB's have struggled for stretches of 3 or 4 playoff games, including Peyton Manning. I absolutely think the Ravens could win with Lamar....I don't think they WILL, but I think Lamar is good enough to win with given appropriate talent around him. And I believe the Hurts we've seen this year can win too.

Not to pick on the Mannings but looking at Eli's playoff record, he stunk it up in his first playoff game too with a QB rating of 35.0. He started his playoff career 0-2 throwing for less than 300 yards in the 2 games combined. He did pretty well after.

No reason to completely dismiss a young QB's future based on such small sample sizes. Especially when these QBs hadn't even turned 24 yet.

 

[Terpman22]

Tom Brady first playoff game:

32/52/0/1 312 yards
6.0 YPA, 70.4 Passer rating

 

[DJackson10]

So how does this work? I can praise him in plenty of areas, but if I dare say slow down, hes still got some things to work on Im a hater? You need me to go out and find some stats to fit my narrative?

I think just about everyone would agree he can still improve his game. But think about it - he's already in the conversation for MVP with the likes of Mahomes, Allen, etc. and he can still get better. IMHO, a 24 year old in his second year as a starter if far from done in terms of growing and improving. Which is why I find it odd some people are so sure this is the best he'll ever be.

Carson Wentz was also in the conversation for MVP and EVERYBODY, and I mean every last one of you in this thread thought the same. I am on record saying that he was always a bum from South Dakota. I called RGIII. I contend that Lamar Jackson will NEVER win a SB.

I think Hurts can win a SB. HATERRRRRRRR!!!!!

I have stated several times that I think Hurts has been really impressive. I have said that the Eagles are the best team and most balanced team in the NFL this year.

But Im a hater. All good fellas.

But then you say that all of that doesn't matter because he runs too much and might get hurt. That's the ridiculous part. How do you feel about him squatting 600 lbs? Is that too dangerous because a QB doesn't need to be that strong and it might make him tear a hamstring at the gym so you can't call him a pro bowler until he skips leg day?

What? When did I say that he runs too much? What does squatting 600 lbs have to do with....anything were talking about?

I honestly dont know what it is youre trying to say. No shtick, not being a smartass.

You know what I "hate" when people derail a discussion on semantics about what real hate is and what being a "hater" is, which you obviously are.

"We don't want to have that conversation"

Which one? How in year 2 as a starter he looks way better than Dak?
That he is a top 5 MVP candidate with every book in Vegas?
That he actually is a good passer and the fact he is built differently than RG3 and and others that flame out so quickly?
Please enlighten us on the "conversation we don't wanna have"
How he is 10-1, #1 seed within striking distance for his team?

All I can see is a lot of "hope he fails" talk really based on other people that have failed and using THEIR experience to project upon Jalen.

So yeah, youse a hater.

You are aware that you can have your own team without comparing them to the Cowboys, right? WTF does Prescott have to do with any of this? So weird man. But hey, since you brought it up, the Cowboys have the number 1 offense in the league since he came back.

Vegas MVP odds?

Ive already mentioned he isn't built like RGIII so yet another weird take.

LMAO at "youse".

Man I'm just referring to the "conversation we don't want to have" which is what exactly? Hurts is having a good year, but he will flame out? Is that your overarching point? Supported by evidence that bc other QB's failed after showing promise, he will too? I'm just throwing out possible conversations maybe YOU don't want to have. Its a weird thing to say and just leave out there. Fill in the blanks for us on whats going to happen please. Otherwise it seems weird/"like a hater" to come into a divisional rival thread when the QB of that team "by all accounts" aka vegas odds etc, whatever you want to measure "Jalen Hurts is having a better season than 90% or more of other offensive players" and start sayin "Nah bc I said so" despite all stats to back it up, etc. It sounds and smells like a hater. Its all good its sports and we are on a message board to talk trash. Just own it I guess.

Well that puts me in a bit of a pickle. If I say what I think is most likely to happen then Ill be called a hater. If I wait until it happens then everyone will say of course you would say that now! thats a no win.

Heres the deal and Ive said this before. This is my stance. At some point during a SB run more than likely there will be a play that requires a amazing throw. Who do you want making that pass? Do you want a guy whos always been able to rely on his legs and is a good passer or a guy who as always relied on his arm and is an average runner?

Not sure that's a fair question. Even in playoff games, elite running QBs make a play out of nothing. The NFL has changed...QBs still need to pass, but elite runners absolutely have a huge advantage now. There's no reason at all why a good passer with elite running can't win...and why his odds would be lower then an elite passer with good running. What's even odder about this is the fact that we've always been told that come playoff time.....teams need to be able to run....that pass first teams that struggle to run generally lose.

If the game has changed why does Lamar Jackson still suck in the playoffs? I wouldn't put Allen and Mahomes in that category either. I think both are elite passers who have the ability to move around the pocket ala Aaron Rodgers just a bit more athletic in terms of speed. The problem is teams people thinking they can change who a Lamar type is when they can't.

I think the whole "Lamar has sucked in the playoffs" thing is a bit over-stated. It's a fairly small sample size and because it's playoffs it's by definition against above average or better competition. MANY HOF QB's have struggled for stretches of 3 or 4 playoff games, including Peyton Manning. I absolutely think the Ravens could win with Lamar....I don't think they WILL, but I think Lamar is good enough to win with given appropriate talent around him. And I believe the Hurts we've seen this year can win too.

Look....I'm not arguing with you two because you're not sold yet....that's not an unreasonable take, it really isn't. And @STEADYMOBBIN 22 has been generally reasonable in here, not unfair at all re. his take on Hurts. Where I (and many here) disagree is his defense of you specifically. Not because you aren't sold, but because you've made many unreasonable and unrealistic statements re. what it would take to sell you, and because you have absolutely been hyper-critical of Hurts in odd ways at odd times. @STEADYMOBBIN 22 has left an avenue open to be swayed, and is complementary overall....you dump on Jalen at every opportunity and have repeatedly made it clear nothing short of (multiple!) super bowl wins would sway you. You're hard headed to an absolute fault on this one.
JUST ENJOY THE RIDE BROTHER!

I don't think it's unreasonable to say he needs to get to a SB. The last guy he replaced was well on his way to one prior before being Hurt. This season is a failure if he can't progress and win one playoff game which I've stated. My concern with Hurts is mostly he's been incredible streaky his whole career. And it's not oh he's just off he can look like one of the best players out there hot but when he's cold he looks like he doesn't belong on a field. There's no medium with him. It's why I'm not sold yet and very skeptic. I'd have felt better with giving Hurts more time if we had that 5th year option. Pick it up see if he can continue this success next year. What I'm more concerned about is the contract he may get and I don't think he'd reasonable ever reach that.

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all. His team kept these games close but because of the style of offense teams geared in towards stopping one thing and thats Lamar running forcing him to be a pocket passer.

 

[DJackson10]

I think the whole "Lamar has sucked in the playoffs" thing is a bit over-stated. It's a fairly small sample size and because it's playoffs it's by definition against above average or better competition. MANY HOF QB's have struggled for stretches of 3 or 4 playoff games, including Peyton Manning. I absolutely think the Ravens could win with Lamar....I don't think they WILL, but I think Lamar is good enough to win with given appropriate talent around him. And I believe the Hurts we've seen this year can win too.

Not to pick on the Mannings but looking at Eli's playoff record, he stunk it up in his first playoff game too with a QB rating of 35.0. He started his playoff career 0-2 throwing for less than 300 yards in the 2 games combined. He did pretty well after.

No reason to completely dismiss a young QB's future based on such small sample sizes. Especially when these QBs hadn't even turned 24 yet.

Eli also had a team that carried him through the year. That first SB win ELI was horrible till the playoffs. Nick Foles playoff SB win run reminded me of that first ELI playoff run where they won the SB I believe it was against NE I could be wrong. Eli stunk it up fairly avg most of the year. Props to Eli for getting it done in the playoffs but I wouldn't trust Eli in the playoffs still or lead my team back then. Cool dude never a problem personally either just not a guy I'd say lets build our franchise around or oh He's available and can take us to the promise land tye.

 

[Amused to Death]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

 

[need2know]

Is the old Derrick Henry gone forever? I'm not too scared of the team, but mainly more interested to see how our Run Defense does and how we attack their run defense and/or if we just air it out since the Titans are pretty terrible against the pass.

it will be a decent test. Titans are a veteran team who have won a ton of games the past few years. jalen should be throwing more in this one. they are strong vs the run

 

[Long Ball Larry]

Is the old Derrick Henry gone forever? I'm not too scared of the team, but mainly more interested to see how our Run Defense does and how we attack their run defense and/or if we just air it out since the Titans are pretty terrible against the pass.

he has still looked pretty good to me when watching him this year.

 

[The Noid]

Robert Quinn suspiciously Out for Sunday with a knee injury…

Might see him go in IR (maybe they think testing him contribute something in the postseason?) so they can bring Jordan Davis back to the active roster and wait another week on deciding what to do with CJGJ.

 

[The Noid]

Robert Quinn suspiciously Out for Sunday with a knee injury…

Might see him go in IR (maybe they think testing him contribute something in the postseason?) so they can bring Jordan Davis back to the active roster and wait another week on deciding what to do with CJGJ.

This also means Quinn won’t be the first NFL player to play 18 regular season games. He came to Philly before Bears had their bye and after we had ours.

 

[Terpman22]

Robert Quinn suspiciously Out for Sunday with a knee injury…

Might see him go in IR (maybe they think testing him contribute something in the postseason?) so they can bring Jordan Davis back to the active roster and wait another week on deciding what to do with CJGJ.

Thought the same thing "So we ARE having 5 DTs active on Sunday"

Very nice. He has been a dud a la Genard Avery

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

So have you

 

[Amused to Death]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

So have you

I haven't decided anything other than he's playing great and enjoying the season. I'm not predicting anything beyond the next game.

ETA: check that - I've decided I've seen enough growth this season that he's earned the right to be the Eagles starting QB next season.

 

[DJackson10]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

In his system it takes QB that long unless there is signs they clearly aren't learning. The west coast offense terminology is some of the most difficult to remember. It takes a guy who's really smart Football IQ wise to master it down. The Eagles from what I read had to dumb it down big time for Vick. I'm going by history of the player here as well. Let me ask you this in 2O19 when Wentz threw for over 4K and 27 TDS and 7 INTs leading the team to the playoffs with a dumpster fire cast of skill set players how many QB's do you see doing that with a team. I look for those things in a QB. I don't think as of right now currently Hurts is gonna be that guy to put a team on his back like that and lead them to wins on his own. Hurts like you said with Lamar needs the right cast around him to win. I just don't ever see Hurts doing on his own. Now I could be wrong I just don't see it currently.

I was never an ELI fan I thought he was overrated as people thought he was good just because he was a Manning. He looked down right awful. The next year after his first year they had the SB win vs NE however Eli didn't throw more then 2 TDs a game or over 255. Defense and the run game did a lot of the work. Eli essentially game managed. This isn't discrediting what he did at the end of the game but it took two incredible lucky catches for that to win.

 

[Deamon]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

So have you

I haven't decided anything other than he's playing great and enjoying the season. I'm not predicting anything beyond the next game.

ETA: check that - I've decided I've seen enough growth this season that he's earned the right to be the Eagles starting QB next season.

I really don't understand all these people and their straw hat arguments. Just saying that we're happy and impressed with a guy leading us to 10-1, who clearly has earned the right to be our starter, apparently means we think he's the best qb in the league, going to win a super bowl, and will be a hall of famer (and then cowboysfan pops in occassionally to 'not troll' but to ONLY make derogatory comments about our fans). ****ing unreal.

 

[Cowboysfan8]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

So have you

I haven't decided anything other than he's playing great and enjoying the season. I'm not predicting anything beyond the next game.

ETA: check that - I've decided I've seen enough growth this season that he's earned the right to be the Eagles starting QB next season.

I really don't understand all these people and their straw hat arguments. Just saying that we're happy and impressed with a guy leading us to 10-1, who clearly has earned the right to be our starter, apparently means we think he's the best qb in the league, going to win a super bowl, and will be a hall of famer (and then cowboysfan pops in occassionally to 'not troll' but to ONLY make derogatory comments about our fans). ****ing unreal.

This is simply not true. I haven’t posted in this thread much lately, and I posted very recently that I thought Djax’s posts were thought out and made sense.


Why do you feel the need to always take offense and make things up? It’s very odd

 

[JetMaxx]

https://twitter.com/haffnhaff_tpl/status/1598684528066719754?s=46&t=12uX-LEYsAfighCxwsEpiQ

I think those that are skeptical are not placing appropriate value on this.

 

[Insein]

Jordan Davis activated.

CJGJ placed on IR.

 

[DJackson10]

Lamar is 1-3 with a 56% comp 9OO yds 3 TDs to 5 INTS All 3 TDs were in both 18-19 seasons, passer rating of 68 with 19 sacks with 5 fumbles. He's been pretty terrible so bad he was benched for Huntley in his last playoff game in a game that wasn't a blow out vs Buffalo. Its just not good at all.

How did Eli look in his first 2 playoff games? You seem to excuse some bad performances but not others. Especially with these very young QB.

Didn't Andy Reid once say it takes a QB 5 years in a system till they're comfortable in it? But you've decided already what Hurts is in less than 2.

So have you

I haven't decided anything other than he's playing great and enjoying the season. I'm not predicting anything beyond the next game.

ETA: check that - I've decided I've seen enough growth this season that he's earned the right to be the Eagles starting QB next season.

I really don't understand all these people and their straw hat arguments. Just saying that we're happy and impressed with a guy leading us to 10-1, who clearly has earned the right to be our starter, apparently means we think he's the best qb in the league, going to win a super bowl, and will be a hall of famer (and then cowboysfan pops in occassionally to 'not troll' but to ONLY make derogatory comments about our fans). ****ing unreal.

This is simply not true. I haven’t posted in this thread much lately, and I posted very recently that I thought Djax’s posts were thought out and made sense.


Why do you feel the need to always take offense and make things up? It’s very odd

Not sure sure what he said as I have him on ignore but he does make stuff up about posters he dislikes. I don't always agree with you but I will say you haven't frequented this thread with trolling type post lately as you had in the past..

Also I don't get people. I'm not gonna sit here and drink the kool aid and blow roses up asses. If you want that go listen to the local radio show hosts who do that I think the issues I've clearly stated for the team are pretty legit.