2023 Detroit Lions: Draft: Detroit has a new Gibby, another Campbell. An Iowa TE again and picked up some Branches and a Hooker. (2 Viewers)

[Ilov80s]

Also I don’t know why but I don’t want Tyree Wilson. I would rather have the Iowa kid. Tyree is older and did I hear correctly he already has 2 foot fractures?

I can't find the bolded anywhere, do you remember where you heard it?

He's been medically cleared by Dr. Robert Anderson (best foot specialist in the world) but not doing anything on his Pro Day bc he's got an incision that can't be exposed to sweat. IIRC he had some hardware inside his foot at the Combine which was recently removed. He only did the Bench Press, supposed to hold a private workout in mid-April for interested teams.

Tyree has tremendous physical traits. I could see him developing far beyond what he is today (which is pretty good.)

Not a fan of Hercules. Didn't he have the fewest bench reps of any ED at the Combine? Which is super weird bc his tape is so boring - no plan of attack, just bull rush bull rush bull rush. It worked so why change? His lack of upper body strength makes me think he'll not have the speed-to-power transition that is required at the pro level. He's pretty much a specialist, had one 50 snap game in his career and never started a game.

He is one year younger, Wilson was recruited by A&M and then transferred to Tech.

I can’t find anything on it but I swore someone said it on a podcast. Seems likely just a first time foot fracture. To me he’s a like Ness, just power. He’s a lot stiffer from what I saw. I think LVN is just tapping his potential. He looked almost LB smooth in the drills at the combine. Has a lot of experience playing inside as well. The bench number is weirdly low. He has longer arms but not freakishly long or anything. I guess all of this just leads me back to Richardson. It’s just not a great draft class.

 

[Ilov80s]

Or it could save the season if Goff gets hurt. Plus Richardson could actually be a pretty potent offensive weapon in year one. I think Dan and Ben are creative enough to find spots where AR can shine while hiding his weaknesses

FWIW, Teddy Bridgewater has graded out about the same as Goff in recent years, maybe even a tad higher. By the eye test, I saw a nice intermediate and deep ball when given time. The longest air completion (air distance) to Tyreek was not Tua or Mahomes. It was about a 60 yard pass from Teddy in 2022. He had a knee issue late last year, that should make his price lower than it was in 2022, even if he has recovered.

I think Richardson will require moving up in the draft.

Goff had some rough years but I think the expectation is we see 2022 Goff continue into 2023. The 2021 version of Goff was bad. The Lions won’t be winning the division if Goff regresses and we will really regret having not addressed QB in round 1.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I didn't know this was the price for Hopkins:

ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler reported on Saturday that the Cardinals are seeking a second-round draft pick and more for the five-time Pro Bowl receiver. Of course, that doesn’t include the hefty contract the team trading for him would have to take on in the two years left on the deal.

“I’ve talked to teams who say that Arizona has wanted a second-round pick and more, almost like a Christian McCaffrey package that you saw during the season last year—second, third-round pick, something big,” said Fowler.


McCaffrey was traded to the San Francisco 49ers for a second, third and fourth-round pick in the 2023 NFL draft, along with a fifth-rounder tacked on for the 2024 NFL draft.

A massive trade of that caliber worked because McCaffrey is only 26 years old. Hopkins is supremely-talented and one of the best receivers in the game, but he also turns 31 in June.

That’s quite the haul for an aging player.

 

[BobbyLayne]

2021 Goff was as bad as the team around him the first two thirds of the season, but he did have 11 TDs 2 INT his last 5 games

2022 was more of the same the first seven, then he went 17 TDs / 1 INT the last 10 g

Went into the offseason with 324 passes without an interception - 5th longest in league history

 

[BobbyLayne]

Cardinals are seeking a second-round draft pick

I feel ya Arizona, I'm looking for a 7-figure deal myself. We both have about the same odds of getting what we want.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Week 14 Vikings @ Lions on nfl network right now.

Hock with a crucial 3rd down drop in a 7-7 game to kill the drive

 

[BobbyLayne]

Week 14 Vikings @ Lions on nfl network right now.

Hock with a crucial 3rd down drop in a 7-7 game to kill the drive

first half ends with Badgeley missing a 47 yarder

indoors, perfect snap and hold, defense playing it's butt off, Goff just moved them 49 yards in 49 seconds after a fumble recovery and we get that deflater to end the half

man I hope Brad or Dan are somehow watching this and just remembered how mediocre he was and let us down in the clutch often (Thanksgiving chip shot)

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Week 14 Vikings @ Lions on nfl network right now.

Hock with a crucial 3rd down drop in a 7-7 game to kill the drive

first half ends with Badgeley missing a 47 yarder

indoors, perfect snap and hold, defense playing it's butt off, Goff just moved them 49 yards in 49 seconds after a fumble recovery and we get that deflater to end the half

man I hope Brad or Dan are somehow watching this and just remembered how mediocre he was and let us down in the clutch often (Thanksgiving chip shot)

Hopefully they will bring in some competition by training camp. UDFA maybe if not a draft pick.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Saw this graphic flash in the replay game today and did some quick research to complete the fourth quartile:

2022 Lions scoring offense ranks

1. Weeks 1-5 - 35.0 ppg NFL rank 1st
   
   
2. Weeks 6-9 - 12.0 ppg NFL rank 31st
   
   
3. Weeks 10-13 - 31.8 ppg NFL rank 1st
   
   
4. Weeks 14-18 - 27.6 ppg NFL rank 3rd
   (1 pt behind PHI 8 pts less than KC)

5th for the year but basically 1st overall for 14/18ths of the season.

edit math

 

[Ilov80s]

Saw this graphic flash in the replay game today and did some quick research to complete the fourth quartile:

2022 Lions scoring offense ranks

1. Weeks 1-5 - 35.0 ppg NFL rank 1st
   
   
2. Weeks 6-9 - 12.0 ppg NFL rank 31st
   
   
3. Weeks 10-13 - 31.8 ppg NFL rank 1st
   
   
4. Weeks 14-18 - 27.6 ppg NFL rank 3rd
   (1 pt behind PHI 8 pts less than KC)

5th for the year but basically 1st overall for 14/18ths of the season.

edit math

Weeks 6-9 Chark was out, Amon Ra was dealing with his injury.

 

[Zeppelin]

Bobby Wagner signed a one-year contract with Seattle for $7 million. I'd much rather have that than Anzalone for 3 years.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Bobby Wagner signed a one-year contract with Seattle for $7 million. I'd much rather have that than Anzalone for 3 years.

9 years since DeAndre Levy hit his peak? Man it has been a minute since we had an elite backer.

(Rodrigo was a nice find but room for growth)

 

[Ilov80s]

I wonder if the extra money cleared up is potentially for a trade up to 3 for Will Anderson? It’s probably a $6-9 million increase to pay the 3rd pick vs 6th. Not sure how that breaks out by year though.

 

[dmac37]

Bobby Wagner signed a one-year contract with Seattle for $7 million. I'd much rather have that than Anzalone for 3 years.

So much for the dream of Lions getting him. Seemed like a perfect fit, never heard any news of the Lions interest in Wagner

 

[BobbyLayne]

I wonder if the extra money cleared up is potentially for a trade up to 3 for Will Anderson? It’s probably a $6-9 million increase to pay the 3rd pick vs 6th. Not sure how that breaks out by year though.

Difference between the #6 and #3 contract is 7.85M, but the 2023 Cap impact is less than $1.5M

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/draft/

Even if we went crazy the other direction and acquired say 3-4 more picks, the impact for the current year is minimal (on the order of $4-6M max in most scenarios.)

From 2022, the Bears rolled over something like $9.5M. The next ten largest rollover teams were between $400K and %1.5M. That said, it's not unusual for teams to carry $5-10M million into training camp. Teams generally try to maximize their Cap but when you can it's always nice to have some in-season flexibility for trades, signings or extensions.

I'm fine with Brad being deliberate here with the remaining $24.885M. He has done nothing in the last 24+ months that would give me reason to worry. Dude is a freaking villain who is crushing his job rn.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Sometimes I think being an NFL GM is like being a kid with his first credit card. A few might max it out in no time, buying every shiny new object out there. The smart ones buy some of what they need most, but always keep a reserve for when they could really use it down the road.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Sometimes I think being an NFL GM is like being a kid with his first credit card. A few might max it out in no time, buying every shiny new object out there. The smart ones buy some of what they need most, but always keep a reserve for when they could really use it down the road.

And if you're Mickey Loomis (Saints), you kick that can down the road and put off taking the Dead Cap hit as long as you can lol; sooner or later you have to pay off the CC.

Lions have run up a little CC debt with all the void years they've been tacking on, but it seems like Holmes is doing this quite strategically. While prioritizing freeing up Cap Space to sign players in 2023, they've also been spreading out the Dead Cap hits for future years. This was discussed on Pride of Detroit podcast and I think it's reassuring.

The Detroit Lions have been active with the salary cap gymnastics this offseason. They restructured Tracy Walker’s and Jack Fox’s contracts. They got Charles Harris, Halapoulivaati Vaitai, and Romeo Okwara to agree to significant pay cuts. Additionally, many of the players they have signed or re-signed in free agency have backloaded contracts. Six of them—Cameron Sutton, Emmanuel Moseley, David Montgomery, C.J. Gardner Johnson, Alex Anzalone, and (reportedly) Graham Glasgow— include at least one voided year at the end.

All of this has shown that the Lions are prioritizing cap space in 2023 over the future. That has allowed them to be active in free agency, and there could be a couple more moves waiting around the corner.

But many Lions fans have expressed concern about this strategy. Former Lions general manager Martin Mayhew was often criticized for kicking the salary cap commitments down the road, and it eventually got the Lions into trouble. Could Brad Holmes be making the same mistake now?

On the amount of dead cap/backloading:

Erik Schlitt: “They’ve been really specific in how they’ve wanted to do it, and they’ve only done it a little bit in each of the next three years. It’s not like they’ve been, ‘Okay we’ve got $20 million in money on voided contracts and it’s all coming due next year.’ It’s spread out. it’s $6.4 million hitting in 2024. It’s $6.4 hitting in 2025. $6.6 hitting in 2026. And that’s right in line with where they are now, because this year (DJ) Chark accounted $6 million on his own, and then you add in the fact that the (Michael) Brockers cut cost another $4 (million), they went into this offseason with more dead cap than they’re pushing.”

 

[TwinTurbo]

Anthony Richardson at 1.06? Do I love AR? Nope. He has some big flaws that could be fatal but I think he's mostly a mystery box. All the tools are there to be a Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson MVP candidate level QB. Detroit is in the unique position of being able to take it slow with him as there would be zero expectation that he starts a game this year. I know this is controversial so here's my rationale

• This IS a win now move. The Lions are clearly setting this team up to make a playoff run in 2023. As they should, they are a significant favorite to win the NFC North. All it takes is one injury to Goff though and the season is done. We could be looking at a 9-3 record and then boom, Goff falls the wrong way, breaks a collarbone and now it's Nate Sudfeld or some veteran off the scrap heap like Flacco or Bridgewater. Having AR, would give us a super talented backup and possibly provide enough playmaking ability where even if his passing isn't ready, his legs can wreak havoc on defenses.
• This is also a win later move. It gives us options for the QB position. Leverage for the Goff negotiations, the ability to let Goff walk, a potential star QB on a rookie deal with a loaded roster.
• If we are thinking Super Bowl this year, adding a few Richardson packages as the year goes would add a wrinkle to the offense that could give defenses fits. Look at the Eagles and their push play. Nobody is stopping AR at the goal line or on 4th and short. Think Taysom Hill with blazing speed and a cannon arm.
• QB is the ultimate value. There is no position harder to fill in all of football and their price tag is higher than any other position (both in terms of contract $ and trade value). If Richardson plays in some preseason, gets a few reps here and there during the season and the buzz is good, he can be a huge trade chip for the future. QB is probably the only position where a top 10 pick can hardly even play or only play decently and still retain a ton of value. If we decide we want to commit long term to Goff, we can probably flip AR for a 1st or 2nd.

AR is 53% completion percentage, LJ was >63% in college. Hurts was over 71%. Its night and day. Similar to how Bryce Young is an outlier in terms of size, AR is a huge outlier in terms of accuracy. Even Josh Allen was 56% and he is an anomaly. Its like drafting a college WR with a >10% drop rate. You shouldn't be learning how to catch and throw in the NFL if you are a first round pick. But some teams never learn about never learning

 

[Ilov80s]

Anthony Richardson at 1.06? Do I love AR? Nope. He has some big flaws that could be fatal but I think he's mostly a mystery box. All the tools are there to be a Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson MVP candidate level QB. Detroit is in the unique position of being able to take it slow with him as there would be zero expectation that he starts a game this year. I know this is controversial so here's my rationale

• This IS a win now move. The Lions are clearly setting this team up to make a playoff run in 2023. As they should, they are a significant favorite to win the NFC North. All it takes is one injury to Goff though and the season is done. We could be looking at a 9-3 record and then boom, Goff falls the wrong way, breaks a collarbone and now it's Nate Sudfeld or some veteran off the scrap heap like Flacco or Bridgewater. Having AR, would give us a super talented backup and possibly provide enough playmaking ability where even if his passing isn't ready, his legs can wreak havoc on defenses.
• This is also a win later move. It gives us options for the QB position. Leverage for the Goff negotiations, the ability to let Goff walk, a potential star QB on a rookie deal with a loaded roster.
• If we are thinking Super Bowl this year, adding a few Richardson packages as the year goes would add a wrinkle to the offense that could give defenses fits. Look at the Eagles and their push play. Nobody is stopping AR at the goal line or on 4th and short. Think Taysom Hill with blazing speed and a cannon arm.
• QB is the ultimate value. There is no position harder to fill in all of football and their price tag is higher than any other position (both in terms of contract $ and trade value). If Richardson plays in some preseason, gets a few reps here and there during the season and the buzz is good, he can be a huge trade chip for the future. QB is probably the only position where a top 10 pick can hardly even play or only play decently and still retain a ton of value. If we decide we want to commit long term to Goff, we can probably flip AR for a 1st or 2nd.

AR is 53% completion percentage, LJ was >63% in college. Hurts was over 71%. Its night and day. Similar to how Bryce Young is an outlier in terms of size, AR is a huge outlier in terms of accuracy. Even Josh Allen was 56% and he is an anomaly. Its like drafting a college WR with a >10% drop rate. You shouldn't be learning how to catch and throw in the NFL if you are a first round pick. But some teams never learn about never learning

I hear you, AR is a project. The good part is he's so early in his progress. He's only thrown 393 college passes. Of course it is worrisome because we don't know what kind of finished product he will be, but we do know that he has a lot of room to grow. I think if you put AR in a healthy football environment with quality coaching, he is going to improve. How much is the question? If Ben, Dan and Brad look at him and think he's the kind of QB they could mold then I think it'a very worthwhile gamble.

As for comping to Lamar and Jalen, that's obviously based on physical traits. Lamar and Jalen were way more experienced coming out. Lamar and Hurts had thrown over 1000 college passes. They were much better with the last 300 passes than they were with their first 300. They got the reps to get better.

Lamar's first year as a starter: 54.7% completion (his career average was 57% and he never exceeded 59% for a season)
Jalen's first year as a starter: 63% (his career average was 69%) and Hurts benefited from playing in 2 of the most talented and QB friendly offenses in the country.

So I see Lamar and AR both around 54% in their first years starting and I see the improvements he made, I do think it is possible that AR can improve by 10% in the NFL. He's never going to be Drew Brees accurate but the arm strength and the mobility can makeup for it and then some.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Lions list of pre-draft visits

DL Adetomiwa Adebawore, Northwestern (Pro Day)
DL Karl Brooks, Bowling Green (Top 30)
LB Trenton Simpson, Clemson (Combine)
LB Noah Sewell, Oregon (Combine)
LB DeMarvion Overshown, Texas (Pro Day)
EDGE BJ Thompson, Stephen F Austin (Top 30)
CB Cory Trice, Purdue (Pro Day)
S Jammie Robinson, Florida State (Combine)
QB Anthony Richardson, Florida (Combine)
QB Adrian Martinez, Kansas State (Top 30)
QB Aidan O’Connell, Purdue (Pro Day)
RB Evan Hull, Northwestern (Pro Day)
WR Jayden Reed, Michigan State (Combine)
WR Ronnie Bell, Michigan (Pro Day)
WR Quentin Johnston, TCU (Combine)
WR Antoine Green, North Carolina (Combine)
TE Tucker Kraft, South Dakota State (Combine)
TE Sam LaPorta, Iowa (Combine)
OT Quinton Barrow, Grand Valley State (Pro Day)
OT Darnell Wright, Tennessee (Combine)
T/G Jordan McFadden, Clemson (Combine)
G Chandler Zavala, NC State (Top 30)
G Antonio Mafi, UCLA (Top 30)

Bolded = BL approved

The BJ Thompson Top 30 visit is interesting. Combine snub, didn't test well at his Pro Day (he posted better numbers across the board last year) but was reportedly dealing with a stomach virus that day. He's a very long shot to amount to anything, former 3-star Power 5 kid who transferred to Stephen F Austin. Saw a lot of chatter about him last week, just passing it along.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Anthony Richardson at 1.06? Do I love AR? Nope. He has some big flaws that could be fatal but I think he's mostly a mystery box. All the tools are there to be a Jalen Hurts, Lamar Jackson MVP candidate level QB. Detroit is in the unique position of being able to take it slow with him as there would be zero expectation that he starts a game this year. I know this is controversial so here's my rationale

• This IS a win now move. The Lions are clearly setting this team up to make a playoff run in 2023. As they should, they are a significant favorite to win the NFC North. All it takes is one injury to Goff though and the season is done. We could be looking at a 9-3 record and then boom, Goff falls the wrong way, breaks a collarbone and now it's Nate Sudfeld or some veteran off the scrap heap like Flacco or Bridgewater. Having AR, would give us a super talented backup and possibly provide enough playmaking ability where even if his passing isn't ready, his legs can wreak havoc on defenses.
• This is also a win later move. It gives us options for the QB position. Leverage for the Goff negotiations, the ability to let Goff walk, a potential star QB on a rookie deal with a loaded roster.
• If we are thinking Super Bowl this year, adding a few Richardson packages as the year goes would add a wrinkle to the offense that could give defenses fits. Look at the Eagles and their push play. Nobody is stopping AR at the goal line or on 4th and short. Think Taysom Hill with blazing speed and a cannon arm.
• QB is the ultimate value. There is no position harder to fill in all of football and their price tag is higher than any other position (both in terms of contract $ and trade value). If Richardson plays in some preseason, gets a few reps here and there during the season and the buzz is good, he can be a huge trade chip for the future. QB is probably the only position where a top 10 pick can hardly even play or only play decently and still retain a ton of value. If we decide we want to commit long term to Goff, we can probably flip AR for a 1st or 2nd.

AR is 53% completion percentage, LJ was >63% in college. Hurts was over 71%. Its night and day. Similar to how Bryce Young is an outlier in terms of size, AR is a huge outlier in terms of accuracy. Even Josh Allen was 56% and he is an anomaly. Its like drafting a college WR with a >10% drop rate. You shouldn't be learning how to catch and throw in the NFL if you are a first round pick. But some teams never learn about never learning

I hear you, AR is a project. The good part is he's so early in his progress. He's only thrown 393 college passes. Of course it is worrisome because we don't know what kind of finished product he will be, but we do know that he has a lot of room to grow. I think if you put AR in a healthy football environment with quality coaching, he is going to improve. How much is the question? If Ben, Dan and Brad look at him and think he's the kind of QB they could mold then I think it'a very worthwhile gamble.

As for comping to Lamar and Jalen, that's obviously based on physical traits. Lamar and Jalen were way more experienced coming out. Lamar and Hurts had thrown over 1000 college passes. They were much better with the last 300 passes than they were with their first 300. They got the reps to get better.

Lamar's first year as a starter: 54.7% completion (his career average was 57% and he never exceeded 59% for a season)
Jalen's first year as a starter: 63% (his career average was 69%) and Hurts benefited from playing in 2 of the most talented and QB friendly offenses in the country.

So I see Lamar and AR both around 54% in their first years starting and I see the improvements he made, I do think it is possible that AR can improve by 10% in the NFL. He's never going to be Drew Brees accurate but the arm strength and the mobility can makeup for it and then some.

his misses are the ugliest i've seen, like 15-20 feet wide of the mark. sometimes it's a choice option and the WR makes the QB look bad so who knows.

tantalizing player bc of the size and mobility. gets toesy a lot, need a lot of help on his footwork. but then he makes these incredible off script, poor mechanics how-the-heck-did-he-do-that throws that make you think he has a little Allen/Mahomes in him. I could see it.

I don't think he'll fall and would prefer we lean heavily into continuing the defensive buildup.

 

[Ilov80s]

his misses are the ugliest i've seen, like 15-20 feet wide of the mark. sometimes it's a choice option and the WR makes the QB look bad so who knows.

tantalizing player bc of the size and mobility. gets toesy a lot, need a lot of help on his footwork. but then he makes these incredible off script, poor mechanics how-the-heck-did-he-do-that throws that make you think he has a little Allen / Mahomes in him. I could see it.

I don't think he'll fall and would prefer we lean heavily into continuing the defensive buildup.

Yeah, I totally get it. I just think the reward might be worth the risk. He has some major issues but that is one year of reps with maybe some questionable Florida coaching. AR at 6 is something the Lions need to dig really deep into. There is a good chance the board goes Stroud, Young, Anderson. Levis, Wilson and the Lions are totally uncomfortable with Carter. I really like Gonzalez and Witherspoon but QB is still the king of all positions and Detroit has a QB who was already given up on by 1 team and in 2 years will be 30 likely wanting a massive long term deal. I just really hate to end like the Colts and Broncos have been with all Super Bowl caliber rosters hamstrung by the hole at QB.

 

[Faust]

Matt Miller @nfldraftscout

The Lions first round strategy options are really fascinating: With Aaron Rodgers leaving the NFCN you have a real shot to win the division for the first time in 30 years. Do you use picks 6 and 18 to add players who can make an impact right away to win the division? — or — Do you see it as "we won't be drafting this high again, better get a QB of the future while we can" and get in position for Richardson/Levis?

https://twitter.com/nfldraftscout/status/1639648605161103360?s=21

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Right now Richardson is odds on to go #4, whomever drafts there. Levis is 2nd choice, so if Colts take him there then Richardson could drop to 6.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Detroit Lions Draft needs (results of Reddit Survey)

1. DI 8.6
2. QB2 7.7
3. CB 6.4
4. OG 6.3
5. ILB 6.2
6. X-WR 6.0
7. ED 5.9
8. K 5.6
9. TE 5.4
10. NT 5.3
11. SS 5.1
12. RB 4.5
13. S-CB 4.4
14. FS 3.8
15. QB1 2.9
16. OT 2.6
17. KR 2.2
18. FB 2.0
19. C 1.9
20. LS 1.7
21. S-WR 1.7
22. P 1.2

 

[Ilov80s]

I see now that Lamar has announced he wants a trade, Lions-Lamar talk is going to bubble up again.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

I see now that Lamar has announced he wants a trade, Lions-Lamar talk is going to bubble up again.

Lamar makes some sense for teams that don't have a quarterback. There are quite a few out there.

This PFF stat caught my eye: "Jackson completed just 33% of his 20 plus yard throws last season. He was dead last in accuracy rate, as only 22.6% of his deep balls were thrown accurately".

 

[Ilov80s]

Lamar makes some sense for teams that don't have a quarterback. There are quite a few out there.

This PFF stat caught my eye: " Jackson completed just 33% of his 20 plus yard throws last season. He was dead last in accuracy rate, as only 22.6% of his deep balls were thrown accurately".

Yep, he has a big weakness in deep passing. No doubt he is among the worst. He's also the most efficient rusher in the NFL and can get 1000 yards on 7 ypc which is the trade off with him.

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Lamar makes some sense for teams that don't have a quarterback. There are quite a few out there.

This PFF stat caught my eye: " Jackson completed just 33% of his 20 plus yard throws last season. He was dead last in accuracy rate, as only 22.6% of his deep balls were thrown accurately".

Yep, he has a big weakness in deep passing. No doubt he is among the worst. He's also the most efficient rusher in the NFL and can get 1000 yards on 7 ypc which is the trade off with him.

Fair enough but I've heard a lot of Goff can't throw the long ball. It turns out Lamar is worse in terms of accuracy.

 

[BobbyLayne]

“Love Goff. Goff's our guy, man. I think he's proven over the last two years that, man, he's made for us. … When you've got a quarterback, you hold onto those guys, man.”

Lions HC Dan Campbell praises QB Jared Goff, says team is 'capable' of winning division next season

 

[BobbyLayne]

interesting....

kyle meinke
@kmeinke

Brad Holmes just wrapped up a more than 32-minute session with beat writers in Arizona. Very thankful to the Lions and specifically
@Eamonn_Reynolds for going the extra mile to make arrangements for me to listen in. They continue to be one of the best PR teams in the business.
6:59 PM · Mar 27, 2023

kyle meinke
@kmeinke

Of note, Brad Holmes said the Lions are in a "unique" position when it comes to drafting a QB, and they've been in communication with Jared Goff about their intentions.

kyle meinke
@kmeinke

Holmes also explained his side of what happened w/ Jamaal Williams, who said Detroit's free-agent offer was "disrespectful." Holmes said Detroit set aside resources to re-sign JW, but as the market crystallized, they shifted to David Montgomery. Specifically cited tackle-breaking

kyle meinke
@kmeinke

Asked about Lamar Jackson, Brad Holmes said he always evaluates all good players who are available, but left it at that

 

[BobbyLayne]

Holmes full press conference today at the league meetings

 

[BobbyLayne]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

 

[Ilov80s]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

The phrase "due diligence" is going to be repeated between now and the draft a lot. Gotta figure out whether he's the next Suh or the next Nick Fairley.

 

[Zeppelin]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

Absolutely have to.

 

[Ilov80s]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

The phrase "due diligence" is going to be repeated between now and the draft a lot. Gotta figure out whether he's the next Suh or the next Nick Fairley.

Yep. Fairley is a guy who's name came to my mind and as good as Carter was. Fairley seemd a much more dominant college player:

Over the last 2 seasons (27 games) Carter had 69 tackles, 15.5 TFL and 6 sacks.
In just his final season (14 games) Fairley had 60 tackles, 24 TFL and 11.5 sacks.

What am I missing with Carter? Georgia's scheme was that preventative of Carter getting production?

 

[Leroy Hoard]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

The phrase "due diligence" is going to be repeated between now and the draft a lot. Gotta figure out whether he's the next Suh or the next Nick Fairley.

Yep. Fairley is a guy who's name came to my mind and as good as Carter was. Fairley seemd a much more dominant college player:

Over the last 2 seasons (27 games) Carter had 69 tackles, 15.5 TFL and 6 sacks.
In just his final season (14 games) Fairley had 60 tackles, 24 TFL and 11.5 sacks.

What am I missing with Carter? Georgia's scheme was that preventative of Carter getting production?

I don't know but when you combine the lack of production with the red flags of his workout and the speeding incidents, it adds up to probably a no go for the Lions at #6.

 

[Ilov80s]

I don't know but when you combine the lack of production with the red flags of his workout and the speeding incidents, it adds up to probably a no go for the Lions at #6.

It's just weird because I've listened to many a draft podcasts and I just never hear any negatives on his play. It's always like "he's the best on the field player in the draft" and then they move on ir discuss the off the field incident. I am just surprised at the lack of discussion.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Justin Rogers reporting the Lions have scheduled Jalen Carter for a prospect visit.

Have to, right?

The phrase "due diligence" is going to be repeated between now and the draft a lot. Gotta figure out whether he's the next Suh or the next Nick Fairley.

Yep. Fairley is a guy who's name came to my mind and as good as Carter was. Fairley seemed a much more dominant college player:

Over the last 2 seasons (27 games) Carter had 69 tackles, 15.5 TFL and 6 sacks.
In just his final season (14 games) Fairley had 60 tackles, 24 TFL and 11.5 sacks.

What am I missing with Carter? Georgia's scheme was that preventative of Carter getting production?

I don't know but when you combine the lack of production with the red flags of his workout and the speeding incidents, it adds up to probably a no go for the Lions at #6.

In his press conference yesterday Holmes didn't want to get into all the specifics that goes into their pre-draft evaluation but he did bring up prefrontal cortex development.

Spoiler: why young adult males do stupid things

The male brain finishes developing and maturing in the mid-to-late 20s. The part of the brain behind the forehead, called the prefrontal cortex, is one of the last parts to mature. This area is responsible for skills like planning, prioritizing, and making good decisions. Studies indicate this development happens several years earlier in female brains, which supports the view "girls mature faster."

They tried to get him to say whether talent would outweigh the character evaluation and he just said it's different with each player but they're very thorough in their process.

WRT backup QB, there were two other (unnamed) QBs they were trying to get a deal done with and they ending up withdrawing. Biggest concern was finding a backup with more game experience than Sudfeld and it didn't work out. Sounds like they'll be drafting a QB but not at all sure which round they might have in mind.

If you remember the 2020 Draft, Quinn let everyone know "there's zero chance we'll draft a QB." This was a few months after Stafford missed the entire second half of the season with a broken back. There were two blue chips (Burrow & Chase Young) who were going to go 1-2, Lions had the 3rd pick. Absolutely no motivation for the Dolphins or Chargers to move up. Way to kill the market, Bob.

So far it seems like they are doing a good job of keeping everyone guessing on which way they might go which is a good thing in my mind.

 

[BobbyLayne]

I don't know but when you combine the lack of production with the red flags of his workout and the speeding incidents, it adds up to probably a no go for the Lions at #6.

It's just weird because I've listened to many a draft podcasts and I just never hear any negatives on his play. It's always like "he's the best on the field player in the draft" and then they move on ir discuss the off the field incident. I am just surprised at the lack of discussion.

He had a lousy Championship game and throughout his career he has played a lot fewer snaps than most other highly rated DI - even guys like Mazi or Ika who are carrying way more weight. Now Georgia had fifteen 5-star and fifty-eight 4-star recruits on their championship team, so maybe that's just the way they roll. The first two DI off the board last year were Georgia players. That said, I have often heard his conditioning is not optimal.

In terms of technique, he brings more to the table than anyone else in the draft. Boy it's not close, he's exponentially better, you cannot find a Power Five DL with his explosion into contact. He's got a plan, he uses different moves, and he is quicker AND stronger than anyone else. He'll get leverage and go underneath, and you're either holding/tackling him or screaming "LOOK OUT" ay your QB bc it's over man. He'll hand fight then give the C/G a slap - it looks like watching a DL from the 70s, only instead of a head slap it's hitting the guys arm or torso - and he is moving 320 lineman with an arm swat! THAT'S insane. Maintains his balance, blows by them, wraps up. Just strictly from a film perspective he is really special. Best DI prospect since at least Quinnen Williams.

 

[jon_mx]

Carter is the perfect fit from what Detroit is looking for talent wise and would be an awesome addition to the defense. It is all a question if Brad and Dan thinks he is a cultural fit, which I don't think he is. But I trust Brad/Dan will give him a legit chance to prove otherwise. I do think the Lions will draft a QB with the 18th pick. But it is really wide open. I would not be shocked if Detroit spent their first round picks on DL, CB, WR or QB. It will be fun to see what happens, because for once Detroit is no desperate to fill in gapping holes.

---

 

[BobbyLayne]

Also I don’t know why but I don’t want Tyree Wilson. I would rather have the Iowa kid. Tyree is older and did I hear correctly he already has 2 foot fractures?

I can't find the bolded anywhere, do you remember where you heard it?

He's been medically cleared by Dr. Robert Anderson (best foot specialist in the world) but not doing anything on his Pro Day bc he's got an incision that can't be exposed to sweat. IIRC he had some hardware inside his foot at the Combine which was recently removed. He only did the Bench Press, supposed to hold a private workout in mid-April for interested teams.

Tyree has tremendous physical traits. I could see him developing far beyond what he is today (which is pretty good.)

Not a fan of Hercules. Didn't he have the fewest bench reps of any ED at the Combine? Which is super weird bc his tape is so boring - no plan of attack, just bull rush bull rush bull rush. It worked so why change? His lack of upper body strength makes me think he'll not have the speed-to-power transition that is required at the pro level. He's pretty much a specialist, had one 50 snap game in his career and never started a game.

He is one year younger, Wilson was recruited by A&M and then transferred to Tech.

I can’t find anything on it but I swore someone said it on a podcast. Seems likely just a first time foot fracture. To me he’s a like Ness, just power. He’s a lot stiffer from what I saw. I think LVN is just tapping his potential. He looked almost LB smooth in the drills at the combine. Has a lot of experience playing inside as well. The bench number is weirdly low. He has longer arms but not freakishly long or anything. I guess all of this just leads me back to Richardson. It’s just not a great draft class.

PFF had a podcast/YT this morning on Draft Class "Best Everything" - like best in coverage, best run stopper, best get off, most varied pass rush technique. They went through every position group so not a real deep analysis, just quick skim of each player they brought up, but amongst Edge players they have Lukas Van Ness as the best setter. One thing they brought up is he has a massive frame, very wide shoulders, so if he wanted to fill out he could easily get to 295 (+23 from Combine weight.) They think he'll be better than Tyree Wilson in that one aspect. He doesn't have much variety in his pass rush plan but I found this interesting just from the aspect of setting the edge was a massive problem for the Lions last year. Remember at Chicago, at Carolina - my gosh it was painful watching guys ripping off 15-20 yards with no contact on really simple run schemes.

Also thought it interesting that Brad emphasized several times yesterday (presser + later 1-on-1 interview) they don't have a depth chart in the war room. Said he's been in regimes that drafted off the depth chart and he thinks its a recipe for mistakes. Don't worry about positional needs based on a static depth chart, it won't mean anything week 7 when it's completely irrelevant. Draft the best player, figure out how to deploy him later.

You can look at Edge and say "aw we're good" but I don't think the Lions look at it like that at all. Three positions you can never have too many are ED, CB and WR.

 

[Zeppelin]

Lions interested in Calais Campbell per the Detroit News. He's 36 years old but still playing at a high level.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Lions interested in Calais Campbell per the Detroit News. He's 36 years old but still playing at a high level.

read a Tweet that said that was reported in error, Jets are looking at him but not Detroit

 

[Zeppelin]

Lions interested in Calais Campbell per the Detroit News. He's 36 years old but still playing at a high level.

read a Tweet that said that was reported in error, Jets are looking at him but not Detroit

Dan Campbell was quoted as saying the Lions are interested in Calais Campbell.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Lions interested in Calais Campbell per the Detroit News. He's 36 years old but still playing at a high level.

read a Tweet that said that was reported in error, Jets are looking at him but not Detroit

Dan Campbell was quoted as saying the Lions are interested in Calais Campbell.

thanks not sure why the confusion, heard one thing, then the other, then clarification no no it was def the other, which is the opposite of what you found lol

gonna be 37 before the season starts but still playing at a high level

 

[Leroy Hoard]

One year at a rotational position, why not, it's not like this team is full old guys. This would further un-hamstring them going into the draft in terms of drafting for a specific position.

 

[jon_mx]

One year at a rotational position, why not, it's not like this team is full old guys. This would further un-hamstring them going into the draft in terms of drafting for a specific position.

We already picked up our token old guy, the long snapper. Anyone else over 27 is considerd over the hill.

 

[Ilov80s]

PFF had a podcast/YT this morning on Draft Class "Best Everything" - like best in coverage, best run stopper, best get off, most varied pass rush technique. They went through every position group so not a real deep analysis, just quick skim of each player they brought up, but amongst Edge players they have Lukas Van Ness as the best setter. One thing they brought up is he has a massive frame, very wide shoulders, so if he wanted to fill out he could easily get to 295 (+23 from Combine weight.) They think he'll be better than Tyree Wilson in that one aspect. He doesn't have much variety in his pass rush plan but I found this interesting just from the aspect of setting the edge was a massive problem for the Lions last year. Remember at Chicago, at Carolina - my gosh it was painful watching guys ripping off 15-20 yards with no contact on really simple run schemes.

The Panthers game was sickening. LVN played a lot of DT at Iowa so he certainly had to spend a lot of time getting super physical in the middle of the field against the run. He is incredibly physical, has length and is an excellent athlete. He is athletic enough where another 10-20 pounds is doable IMO.

Also thought it interesting that Brad emphasized several times yesterday (presser + later 1-on-1 interview) they don't have a depth chart in the war room. Said he's been in regimes that drafted off the depth chart and he thinks its a recipe for mistakes. Don't worry about positional needs based on a static depth chart, it won't mean anything week 7 when it's completely irrelevant. Draft the best player, figure out how to deploy him later.

You can look at Edge and say "aw we're good" but I don't think the Lions look at it like that at all. Three positions you can never have too many are ED, CB and WR.

Absolutely. We have a lot of edge players but most aren't really a long term part of the team. We also have a lot of smaller guys like Harris, Okwaras. LVN has that inside outside versatility.

CB, Edge, WR and I would add OL. When in doubt, just take one of those positions.