Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Things I learned from Hard Knocks: Hank Fraley has a freaking big neck.
Fantasy Football - Footballguys Forums
Welcome to Our Forums. Once you've registered and logged in, you're primed to talk football, among other topics, with the sharpest and most experienced fantasy players on the internet.
2024 Detroit Lions: Getting ready for the draft in Motown. (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter Da Guru
- Start date
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Things I learned from Week 10: we were really fortunate to win in Chicago (IIRC MCDC's first road win)
Put up 31 in a game when Tom Kennedy, Trinity Benson and Stanley Berryhill were getting WR snaps
Great team win but Chicago shot themselves in the foot with one crucial penalty after another
Moonlight
Footballguy
Goff INT in red zone in 4th quarter negated by Bears penalty
Lions down 24-10 in 4th quarter
Okudah pick6 in 4th quarter
Lions offense struggled. We were indeed fortunate
Moonlight
Footballguy
Glad we got a vet and on a one year contract as said lots of flexibility
Moonlight
Footballguy
I do not get the talk of trading up to get Richardson. If the Lions didn’t pick Malik Willis on day 2 last year, why would they trade up to get a similar inaccurate and inexperienced quarterback? Or even burn the #6 pick on him. Particularly with how well Goff played.
If I were to pick one of the top QBs, I would probably go with Stroud. I don’t trust Young’s size especially after he artificially ballooned up for the combine. Lions do need to upgrade backup position, does anyone like the later round quarterbacks?
If I were to pick one of the top QBs, I would probably go with Stroud. I don’t trust Young’s size especially after he artificially ballooned up for the combine. Lions do need to upgrade backup position, does anyone like the later round quarterbacks?
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
Agree 100%. Also Stroud is probably the #1 pick. I love Richardson's potential and I would rank him way above M.Willis. But that completion percentage is a big problem for a top 10 pick.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
I don't think Willis and AR are comparable other than that they are mobile Black QBs. It's likel saying, why would a team draft Will Levis if they didn't draft Matt Corral last year? They share some traits but are ultimately 2 different people and 2 different prospects. Here are the differences I see:
1. Age: Malik was 22 years old, AR is 20. Younger QB means more room for improvement and his college performance is more impressive since AR was at a maturity and experience disadvantage every game.
2. Trajectory: This sort of ties into age but at 20, AR was a starting QB in the SEC. To get a starting QB job, Malik was 21 and had to transfer out of the SEC.
3. Level of competition: It is a no contest. Florida had the 6th toughest schedule in the country in 2022. In 2021, Liberty had the 104th (and still went 8-4).
4. Athleticism and arm: Malik has a good arm and is very athletic for an NFL QB. Richardson has a great arm and is the most athletic QB prospect ever. Also, Richardson is much bigger. 3 inches and 25 pounds bigger.
The NFL draft will be the real test to show us how far apart these guys are as prospects.
I agree that Chark is by far our biggest loss. I was a bit surprised, but my take on it.
1. Nobody was willing to commit long-term to Chark since he hasn't played a full season forever and was still having ankle issues which required surgery.
2. Chark wanted to be a #1 or #2 so ge could prove himself and get that contract next year, while in Detroit he would have been at best a #3.
Damn you! Why no spoiler alert?!
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
The Heavy D Draft, brought to you by FantasyPros.
6: Jalen Carter DT
18: Myles Murphy EDGE
48: Noah Sewell LB
55: Mazi Smith DT
6: Jalen Carter DT
18: Myles Murphy EDGE
48: Noah Sewell LB
55: Mazi Smith DT
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Conceptually I love it, but that's just setting your 48th pick on fire
My view, the Lions have no interest in drafting Carter at #6. They want guys who live, breath, and dream about football. A guy who can watch film and explain every detail of a play. NOT a guy racing around in cars and leaving dead friends behind and lying about it, and then being out of shape for his pro day. That is NOT the kind of guy Campbell/Holmes even considers drafting.
Secondly, I am not sure there is anyone at #6 the Lions are in love with. Being so many highly regarded QBs in this draft, the Lions could easily trade back a few spots, and either get a second or even someone's next year's first. I just don't see the Hutch or Panei that the Lions war room is going to be shouting about and giving high-fives all around.
The last two years the first picks were enormously good fortune with how the draft worked and the dream scenerios all fell into place. I look at this year's draft and people mocking the Lions picks, and I put about as much weight in as monkey's throwing darts. The Lions have given zero clues as which players they love and see fitting in with their culture. This draft is going to be a wild ride. I expect the Lions to move several picks both up and down. The Lions value players differently than most teams and also put enormous weight into players in the trenches, but yet also recognize special talent like Jamo.
All I know is the Lions are going to draft knee-biting football players.
Secondly, I am not sure there is anyone at #6 the Lions are in love with. Being so many highly regarded QBs in this draft, the Lions could easily trade back a few spots, and either get a second or even someone's next year's first. I just don't see the Hutch or Panei that the Lions war room is going to be shouting about and giving high-fives all around.
The last two years the first picks were enormously good fortune with how the draft worked and the dream scenerios all fell into place. I look at this year's draft and people mocking the Lions picks, and I put about as much weight in as monkey's throwing darts. The Lions have given zero clues as which players they love and see fitting in with their culture. This draft is going to be a wild ride. I expect the Lions to move several picks both up and down. The Lions value players differently than most teams and also put enormous weight into players in the trenches, but yet also recognize special talent like Jamo.
All I know is the Lions are going to draft knee-biting football players.
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
He looks like a good player, but the last list I saw had 15 corners in the top 100. Seems like a position they could wait on till the 2nd or 3rd.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Yeah it’s a deep position this year, excellent point. Not sure (m)any of them are Witherspoon though. He’s really physical, could play outside CB or a Chauncey Gardner Johnson nickel/slot corner role. Witherspoon looks like a great cover guy but he’s also a dog back there. Still not sure that’s worth it at 6 given this class though.
This looks like the kind of guy the Lions would either trade down their 6th pick for or trade up their 18th pick for. The Lions are looking for dogs in round 1.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
looking at historical data the hit rate on cornerbacks taken in the 2nd round is like 25%
Witherspoon is a great scheme fit, best press man cover guy in the draft
culture wise he's great IMO, very physical corner who is always yapping to get in receivers heads
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Just for reference, what are the 2nd round hit rates for other positions?
Moonlight
Footballguy
Mazi Smith was caught with a concealed Glock with 3 more magazines after being stopped for doing double the speed limit in a residential zone.
The Lions need help on the DL but will need to be careful with who they choose.
Moonlight
Footballguy
If Witherspoon is an elite man to man CB with character and toughness, he’s worth the #6 though I think they would like to go DL.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Regarding Jalen Carter MCDC teased us by saying that during their looking into Carter’s fit with the Lions they learned something interesting about him from one of his teammates.
Didn’t say it was positive or negative but to me I think it was weighty and I don’t think he would have said anything unless it was a positive.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Mazi and Jalen do make for a somewhat concerning pair of DTs. Not sure I would not want them to become off the field friends.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I have no idea, it was brought up on a PFF discussion of CBs/Deonte Banks
Along the lines of if you don’t like a guy in the first but think he’s a value in the 2nd, there’s a much higher chance he won’t hit
the Big 3 + Banks seem like a lock for the first
then it gets fuzzy (Cam Smith, Keele Ringo, Emmanuel Forbes)
think the point they were making is rather than take one 2nd round CB like say Tyrique Stevenson (bc you missed out on a 1st round CB), you’re probably better taking two Day 3 guys
Rumor mill/speculation says it has something to do with Jalen being pretty generous with buying meals and helping out teammates. I am certain it was something positive, otherwise no way Campbell would have brought up someone ratting out Carter. But not convinced something like that is enough to put Carter on the draft board.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Wouldn't be the story about paying for a walk-on teammate's meals bc that was widely reported months ago.
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
Sorry if I’m late to this convo … but does the Cam Newton signing maaaaybe mean were looking at Anthony Richardson?
Would the date on that story happen to be April 1st?
Ray Barboni
Footballguy
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Pass Rush Win Rate for IDL of the 2023 NFL Draft:
- Calijah Kancey: 22.7
- Jalen Carter: 16.8%
- Bryan Bresee: 14%
- Tyler Davis: 13.7%
- Bryon Young: 12.4%
- Siaka Ika: 12.1%
- Mazi Smith: 11.4%
- Jaquelin Roy: 10.1%
- Ruke Orhorhoro: 9.9%
- Gervon Dexter: 8.3%
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Da Guru
Fair & Balanced
Has to be. I don`t buy them for myself, I get my tickets from people I know from Ford. I used to get offered 5-6 times a year but I doubt that will happen this season as demand will be higher.
Last edited:
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
We pretty much know at least one of these guys will end up a Lion. Just a matter of who and when?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
I like Myles a lot. Another very athletic ED - actually more of a 3T/5T hybrid - is Northwestern's Adetomiwa Adebawore (pronounced add-E-TOMMY-wah add-E-BAR-eh), who ran a 4.49 at 282 in the Combine testing. Obviously the Clemson kid is rated a full round higher bc of his college production but both have insanely high RAS marks comparable to Hutch.
Holmes took DL with two of his first three picks both of the last two years. Wouldn't be surprised if we take two more with the first four picks (6, 18, 48, 55.) They seem to especially love guys who can play multiples, DT who can play 4i or 5T, or DE who can play 9 wide or drop off and/or run stunts inside.
2021: OL-DL-DL-DB-WR-LB-RB
2022: DL-WR-DL-DB-TE-LB-LB-DB
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Kancey has a lot of great tape as a pass rusher, really well rounded set of tools. But he's not going to be playing on run downs and that was a huge weakness for Detroit most of the year. There's nothing wrong with taking a rotational pass specialist, I do think they're trying to emulate the Eagles somewhat and have a bunch of guys rotating to keep everyone fresh.
Bresee is a much better run defender but doesn't seem to have much variety to his pass rush plan. Good chance both these guys are there at 18.
Guy not listed I like a lot for the 55th or 81st pick is Wisconsin's Keeanu Benton. Especially if we take an explosive pass rusher in the first, could totally see Brad adding a 2-gap DI to rotate with Buggs & McNeil. I was surprised how good Benton is at rushing the passer.
ASIDE - not sure who Tweeted my pass rush win rate quote above but Benton is missing, he would be 4th on that list. PRWR can vary by source, not an official stat, but pretty sure they used PFF. I sometimes forget how common it is for people to post bad info or seemingly just make stuff up.
This morning I listened to a 2-minute clip claiming Will Anderson Jr may not be as good as initial reports because he put on 20 lbs, Alabama moved him inside and his production fell off. Well it's pretty easy to verify that - yes, his listed weight did go from 243 to 263 - true fact. Alignment: 2021 he played 125 snaps as a 4i, 2022 it was 155, so that's completely made up b.s. Production - 14 sacks last year, 15 the year before. How do these people have jobs?
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
That could work out nicely, still leaving 6 or 18 in case they want to add a piece to the offense.
TwinTurbo
Footballguy
That's elder abuse bro.Hooker is even a year older than him. I really never found out the deal with Hooker, maybe a Mormon mission I don't know about.
It's not some smoking gun that ARich is gonna be good, but I like to maintain the perspective that when Levis was the same age, he was a backup at Penn State. Now he's strutting around like Jim McMahon over here.
I dunno what Hooker was doing when he was Arich's age, managing a Blockbuster video, maybe?
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
they really are teed up so nicely going into this draft - have the freedom to go in any direction because they don't have any glaring needs which might influence a pick. take BPA bc we're not worried about the depth chart.
I'm hoping 3 of the 4 picks in the 1st/2nd are for defense, and if it were me the 4th would be a G. However, I recognize there are so many compelling choices between TE, a few big body WRs, couple RBsa and a particular QB, that's not likely to happen. I do expect Brad Holmes to do something surprising.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Brett Kollman 7-round Lions mock
First ten minutes or so is an excellent recap of all transactions for Detroit YTD. This is a no trade, stick and pick mock, and it’s his picks for fit (e.g., not a predictive mock.) FWIW he mentions at the end of his off-season summation the Lions may well package picks to move up to #3. He thinks the team should stick with Goff and draft a developmental QB.
1.6: Devon Witherspoon – CB, Illinois
1.18: Calijah Kancey – DT, Pitt
2:48: Jack Campbell – LB, Iowa
2:55: AT Perry – WR, Wake Forest
3:81: Dorian Thompson-Robinson – QB, UCLA
5.152: Jose Ramirez – EDGE, Eastern Michigan
6.183: Quindell Johnson – S, Memphis
6.194: Moro Ojomo – DT, Texas
Honestly one of the best mocks I have seen, pretty obvious from the intro Kollmann understands the Lions at a depth usually reserved for the local beats.
First ten minutes or so is an excellent recap of all transactions for Detroit YTD. This is a no trade, stick and pick mock, and it’s his picks for fit (e.g., not a predictive mock.) FWIW he mentions at the end of his off-season summation the Lions may well package picks to move up to #3. He thinks the team should stick with Goff and draft a developmental QB.
1.6: Devon Witherspoon – CB, Illinois
1.18: Calijah Kancey – DT, Pitt
2:48: Jack Campbell – LB, Iowa
2:55: AT Perry – WR, Wake Forest
3:81: Dorian Thompson-Robinson – QB, UCLA
5.152: Jose Ramirez – EDGE, Eastern Michigan
6.183: Quindell Johnson – S, Memphis
6.194: Moro Ojomo – DT, Texas
Honestly one of the best mocks I have seen, pretty obvious from the intro Kollmann understands the Lions at a depth usually reserved for the local beats.
I would be very happy with that draft, even if Whitherspoon is a bit of a reach at 6. Some pundants think CB isn't a need since we adequately addressed it in FA, but most of our secondary will be FA next season, so yes we need more long-term pieces there to keep this rolling.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
If you care about such things, some of the boys are together in California for private workouts this week.
Jared Goff
Nate Sudfeld
Jameson Williams
ARSB
Kalif Raymond
Maurice Alexander
Tom Kennedy
Josh Reynolds
Jared Goff
Nate Sudfeld
Jameson Williams
ARSB
Kalif Raymond
Maurice Alexander
Tom Kennedy
Josh Reynolds
Leroy Hoard
Footballguy
Good to see the 2 QBs getting some time in with Jamo. Timing and familiarity are important.
BobbyLayne
Footballguy
Good to see Jamo hanging with ARSB. I’d offer the Brown family $250K x4 to adopt him every off-season lol.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Witherspoon definitely helped his draft case today with his pro day 4.4 range 40 time.
Ilov80s
Footballguy
Benton is a damn good player. I don't think he makes it back to Detroit in the 2nd. I am find with them using the two 2nds to move up for him.
Moonlight
Footballguy
Two 2nds for a guy who will likely go in the second is too rich for my taste.
I would like to see the Lions if they do trade in this draft push some draft capital back to next year.
Moonlight
Footballguy
What’s missing from this list is OL particularly some one who can play G. I would like to see the Lions continue to add to both lines if there are suitable players.
I am coming around to the possibility of DTR as a later round QB option.
