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2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (3 Viewers)

massraider said:
LawFitz said:
The issue I have is that they could've just worked this exact scenario with Carr as the stop gap, had they not burned his bridge
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This absolves Carr of all responsibility, and I don't see that--at all.

And 40 mill is a bit out of my price range for stopgap.
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I'll concede the first part. No telling (for now) how much of Carr's good-soldier persona was real behind the scenes. I'm going with a base-case assumption that Carr was a good soldier and would've continued to be even with a rookie competitor or two coming in over the next two years. But I'll admit that base case may not be realistic at all if he were to take a cancer turn.

As for the $40 MM, that's not correct. His 2023 cash outlay is set to be $33 MM, with a cap hit of $35 MM and cap savings of only $29 MM, if cut or traded. How much of that $29 MM in savings will now go to a guy like Garapolo? I'll stand corrected if they go with a Brissett or Stidham for way cheaper, but if they sign the Grop for similar money and get rid of Carr for a bag of chips or less, then it's a sham. And an utter waste of a valuable, tradeable asset.
 
what if jimmy G runs the offense better and has a more cap friendly contract?

as for carr. guy could have left the no trade BS out of his contract and this mess would be non existent. they'd trade him to whoever and get maximum compensation. carr gets a chance to prove himself on another team, raiders get something back, the other team gets a qb they feel is worth trading for. everyone wins.
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
what if jimmy G runs the offense better and has a more cap friendly contract?

as for carr. guy could have left the no trade BS out of his contract and this mess would be non existent. they'd trade him to whoever and get maximum compensation. carr gets a chance to prove himself on another team, raiders get something back, the other team gets a qb they feel is worth trading for. everyone wins.
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How does Carr win in that scenario?

Why "prove himself" when he could simply be a FA now (probably but hopefully not) and sign a multi-year deal under the assumption he has proven enough?
 
What might compensation look like for Carr? According to sources close to ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler, the Raiders aren’t asking much. Specifically the thinking is that a third round pick could get a deal done.
 
Carr to NOS makes a whole lot of sense - good weapons, a pretty solid defense. And in a dome, Carr's aversion to weather conditions doesn't really come into play.
 
ZADO said:
What might compensation look like for Carr? According to sources close to ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler, the Raiders aren’t asking much. Specifically the thinking is that a third round pick could get a deal done.
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Makes sense... they know they shot themselves in the foot with how they handled the contract and then the benching putting themselves in a hard corner.
 




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SniperJones🏴‍☠️🎙🇨🇴

@RaiderSniper
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#RaiderNationLVRaiders2022SeasonEmoji.png TRADE SCENARIO: Derek Carr to the New Orleans Saints for a draft pick & CB Marshon Lattimore. It’ll clear much needed cap space that they need & we’d have our CB1. Picking up Marcus Peters as CB2 to pair w/ Lattimore on the cheap would be logical
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
as for carr. guy could have left the no trade BS out of his contract and this mess would be non existent. they'd trade him to whoever and get maximum compensation. carr gets a chance to prove himself on another team, raiders get something back, the other team gets a qb they feel is worth trading for. everyone wins.
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Why would he do that, that's moronic. It's not a mess for him, he's already in a win. He can waive the no-trade part for a team he likes (and that maybe gives him a new/better contract) and he can nuke a trade to a team he doesn't. He's a QB, he's going to get "a chance to prove himself" regardless, the only variable is how many millions he'll get the first year of it.
 
ZADO said:
What might compensation look like for Carr? According to sources close to ESPN’s Jeremy Fowler, the Raiders aren’t asking much. Specifically the thinking is that a third round pick could get a deal done.
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I said a few weeks ago I expected a 3rd and a conditional 2024 would be my guess. Maybe up to a 2nd if he plays well and the new team makes the playoffs? Giving up a 2 and 3 for a playoff QB with a middle-of-the-road cap number is a big win for a team, just ask Indy and WAS about their returns.
 
DA RAIDERS said:
I’m still holding out hope that they let the deadline pass and then trade him. Carr gets his money and the raiders get something semi decent for him. The 2/15 date was always in his contract. Him not playing the last 2 games doesn’t change that.

we’ll see.
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This bumbling .org has to know this is a possible and a likely scenario. Right? They have to know cutting him outright would be very stupid and isn’t necessary. Right?
 
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It would take balls to go that route but if there was no decent trade offers then this is the best route. There are QB needy teams tget hat have a good team otherwise and would be desperate. It would get the most trade value for sure but you would have to play chicken with these teams. My understanding is that there is no extra dead money and it does not preclude a contract restructure in the new team.

*sent from my phone
 
Chadstroma said:
ZADO said:
View attachment 3442
SniperJones🏴‍☠️🎙🇨🇴
@RaiderSniper
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12h
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#RaiderNationView attachment 3443 TRADE SCENARIO: Derek Carr to the New Orleans Saints for a draft pick & CB Marshon Lattimore. It’ll clear much needed cap space that they need & we’d have our CB1. Picking up Marcus Peters as CB2 to pair w/ Lattimore on the cheap would be logical
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This sounds more like someone coming up with their wish list than an actual reporting... no?
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oh im sure , i only posted it as a scenario that would be interesting
 
ZADO said:
Chadstroma said:
ZADO said:
View attachment 3442
SniperJones🏴‍☠️🎙🇨🇴
@RaiderSniper
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12h
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#RaiderNationView attachment 3443 TRADE SCENARIO: Derek Carr to the New Orleans Saints for a draft pick & CB Marshon Lattimore. It’ll clear much needed cap space that they need & we’d have our CB1. Picking up Marcus Peters as CB2 to pair w/ Lattimore on the cheap would be logical
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This sounds more like someone coming up with their wish list than an actual reporting... no?
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oh im sure , i only posted it as a scenario that would be interesting
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I am not hating on it. :football:

Seems unlikely to me unless Lattimore was unhappy or something else which I have no idea about one way or another.
 
ZADO said:
Very Interesting , what are your thoughts ?

.@danorlovsky7 agrees with our own @LVGully who wrote on @Sportsnaut yesterday the #Raiders should forget about Aaron Rodgers and do what they need to do to get CJ Stroud...notice what Davante Adams told Dan about WANTING a young QB!
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Dan is usually pretty good on his analysis. He got his current job not from being handed it after a HOF career but being worthwhile to listen to. I have found good insight in a lot of what I have heard him say in the past.

I think he is right in that there is a 'good team' there. Most of it is on offense though. The defense needs help. If they went Stroud (assuming Dan nails this and Stroud is the guy) then that means they give up draft capital to make it happen. The help on defense is not going to come in the draft. They also still need a RG and RT unless you think Munford will make huge strides from a rookie year that flashed promise to a second year where he can lock down the RT. If so, then you can shift Eluemanor to RG with a resign or bring someone else in. That makes the OL go from a concern to stable. Otherwise, the offense will be stunted by gameplanning to give the line help so whoever is throwing it doesn't get smeared. Then the defense. If we get that rookie QB then we have to go to FA to bring in guys to make this defense much better. DL help is critical. My preference would be in DT's that can push the pocket but failing that someone on the edge opposite of Maxx that actually can pressure the QB would go a long way. We spent too much on Jones for what he can bring at this point in his career. After that, we have plenty of holes in the LB and DB's to add as well. With $40 million freed up from Carr moving on.... you can spend it and if you make better decisions that you did with Jones, it is possible to make a big difference to the line that way.

I will say that the one thing that NE has shown over the years when Brady missed time is that you don't need a GREAT QB to be effective in the system. You need a QB that fits the system and then have good game planning... probably a hefty amount of cheating added in... to win. Sure the Patriot D's usually were dang good too so keep that in mind but a QB that fits the system goes a long way.

Spend draft capital for a rookie QB.... shore up the Oline and bring in a lot of defensive help via mostly FA with the later draft picks giving depth.... it can work but there are a lot of RIGHT decisions that need to be made to get from her to there. A whole lot and that is assuming you nail the rookie QB too.
 
raidersraidersraiders said:
beat reporters are fed wrong info often.

vic tafur was close to mack and still go played for a fool. guy guaranteed mack wasn't leaving.
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What is the benefit of saying he will be released as false info? If you were going to feed false info from anyone in the Raider camp then it would be that they would hold him on the roster one way or another unless he is traded. I am not sure a release is in Carr's favor as well. I can only see interested teams trying to push that but that would be an odd source for a reporter to use. I am not seeing the angle here.
 
I'm not a huge fan of any of these 1st round QBs this year. Stroud *maybe* if that last game's sudden show of mobility wasn't an illusion. If it was, no thanks. Build the lines in the first two rounds and be a Go Getta on a later round QB with upside like Dorian Robinson from UCLA (who I think compares a lot closer to Bryce Young than the draft pundits realize) or Stetson Bennett, who won't wow you with his physicals, but is a gamer. Both those guys have tons of valuable collegiate experience and got better as they aged, but are getting little to no respect right now. Build the lines and swing there. If you miss, oh well, try and try again in 2024 and beyond.
 
LawFitz said:
I'm not a huge fan of any of these 1st round QBs this year. Stroud *maybe* if that last game's sudden show of mobility wasn't an illusion. If it was, no thanks. Build the lines in the first two rounds and be a Go Getta on a later round QB with upside like Dorian Robinson from UCLA (who I think compares a lot closer to Bryce Young than the draft pundits realize) or Stetson Bennett, who won't wow you with his physicals, but is a gamer. Both those guys have tons of valuable collegiate experience and got better as they aged, but are getting little to no respect right now. Build the lines and swing there. If you miss, oh well, try and try again in 2024 and beyond.
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THIS, plus sign a cheap-ish vet QB to carry the torch next year to see how close we can get to competing without the anchor that was Carr (only 2/3rds joking)

ETA: I’d love to see my Garapollo-on-a-prove-it-deal post from above come true and would be sooooo intrigued if he can stay healthy and get more wins than Carr got us. Or, heck, squeak us into the playoffs. That would be sick. A boy can dream..
 
Chadstroma said:
raidersraidersraiders said:
beat reporters are fed wrong info often.

vic tafur was close to mack and still go played for a fool. guy guaranteed mack wasn't leaving.
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What is the benefit of saying he will be released as false info? If you were going to feed false info from anyone in the Raider camp then it would be that they would hold him on the roster one way or another unless he is traded. I am not sure a release is in Carr's favor as well. I can only see interested teams trying to push that but that would be an odd source for a reporter to use. I am not seeing the angle here.
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Bad info has, at least, 32 potential sources.

Other teams, agents etc. could be the source. It doesn't have to be from the Raiders. Frankly, IMO the way McDaniels wants to run his ship would involve no leaks, intentional or otherwise.
 
I am not a fan of any stop-gap QB that they would need to sign to anything more than a one yr deal with team options for future yrs. Work outward from there, but I'd guess Jimmy the Grop doesn't fit my criteria.
 
Said better... I doubt Jimmy the Grop considers himself a stop gap and would seriously consider a stop-gap contract. While I've seen nothing of him across multiple years to see him as anything but. Same for really any other currently available NFL QBs other than Brady/Rodgers/Lamar, all of whom have major MAJOR issues of their own.

(I do have some intrigue about Stidham and/or Brissett as more than one-yr rentals, but it's tepid and systematic, at best.)
 
I'm just excited we're making a move, ANY move, at QB. Carr had some fantastic moments but he also created the need for a lot of those fantastic moments by being horrid at times. I am of the mind that if you don't have an elite QB you keep making moves to try to find one, especially if the rest of the team stinks. Who cares if you win 7 games instead of 5? Tanking for Trevor is a far better way to change your franchise outlook than being mediocre or less year after year. I hate sucking more than anyone but if you guaranteed me Caleb Williams in 2024 I would gladly take an 0'fer-23 to do it.

My offseason dream plan:
- Sign a ton of mid-level UFA's. Like 10 guys with at least 20 starts under their belts, somewhere in the $5-$12M range each. Not gonna get any All-Pro players this way, but we're going to turn over the below-replacement-level bodies we currently have. Signing 10 Perryman-level veterans to wash out the Bolton/Butler/Langi level guys will go a long way toward not giving games because our guys have no business on an NFL roster. We gotta quit relying on Mathias Farley and Tyler Hall types to hold on in 2-minute against NFL-level talent. They just can't do it.
- Re-sign everyone. Francise Jabobs, bring back Perryman, Ya-sin, Harmon, Hollins, heck even Ferrell. Don't let anyone of any consequence leave. We have a spending floor to hit, let's spend it.
- Sign Darnold to short-ish contract - I am of the mind he's a better QB than we've seen and his coaching has really hurt him. Let's see what kind of whisperer McD truly is.
- Trade 2024 1st and maybe more to move up and draft Stroud.

Mostly because I'm an OSU fanboi, but get a QB. Any QB. Levis, Young, Richardson. I don't care about the price. If you hit the price is a bargain regardless, and if you don't then the picks you could have kept wouldn't have done you any good anyway. One look at the Jets, Donkeys, Commanders, and Saints show me all I need to know - however well you build the rest of the team is irrelevant until you get a QB.

-or- draft Hendon Hooker in a later round. I don't care if it's 2nd, 3rd, or whatever. I lobbied a few years ago for Gruden to draft Hurts in middle rounds to see what he could develop into but when I saw he was a 2nd rounder I was like "ok, probably glad we didn't do THAT". Not. Turns out had we drafted Hurts 19 instead of Arnettte we'd be singing quite the different tune right now. Hooker was a Heisman candidate and playing out of his mind, I wanna see how that translates. If we can't get a premium rookie let's roll a much cheaper set of dice here.

We have a bunch of extra late picks in this draft - an extra 5, 6, and 7 now and we're due another 5, 6, and 7 potential comp picks. If we weren't morons to sign Chandler Jones we could have had a 4th from losing Mariota too. We won't see any All-pros in those rounds but we can add some developmental depth, something we're badly in need of. 13 possible picks are exciting. I DVR the Combine and Draft every year, I'll be paying extra close attention now.
 
This just feels like another rebuild to me. If I were a player, of course I’d be all in on Aaron Rodgers but the reality is this team, especially the defense, is devoid of talent and depth.
They can’t build the trenches and secondary by mortgaging their future to get Rodgers for what, a year? Maybe two? At $60 million, how do they build a roster when the bulk of the assets go to one position? Yes, it’s the most important position, but it’s still a team game. Mahomes and Hurts would not be in the Super Bowl without the studs in the trenches.
Speaking of QBs… I’m in the boring camp. Stidham is the bridge QB, he’s shown he can be competent in McD’s offense, and I believe they’re zeroing in on a rookie.
Like others here, I’m not high on any of the top QBs in this year’s draft. It’s so early in the process but I hope they don’t trade up for Stroud (or any QB) because he/they won’t be there at #7 and they just aren’t worth it. If they don’t get crazy maybe they trade back for Richardson or draft Hooker later on. Who knows, that’s just the feeling I get.
The Jacobs dilemma: RBs on 2nd contracts rarely live up to them. I don’t know if the Raiders want to go there. Maybe they franchise tag him, I don’t know. But I wouldn’t get too attached to JJ either because understandably so, he’s not going to be thrilled if he gets tagged.
The free agent dilemma: How do you attract big name free agents without a QB? The Raiders mystique is long gone, the glitz and glam of Vegas wears off pretty quick when you’re there for work. Yeah it’s cheaper to live in Nevada than California or New York. But it’s pretty comparable these days to Florida or Texas. I don’t think the state tax thing is as big a draw as some make it.
Whatever direction the Raiders decide to go, they have to hit on the free agents and draft picks. If they nail it, the rebuild can happen very quickly, if this regime blows it then it’s Groundhog’s Day all over again.
 
Lots of great ideas lately in the thread. Big fan of not signing a big-name vet QB as a stop gap. Roll with Stidham, Brissett and/or Darnold while drafting a QB every season until THE QB is landed. Build the roster from the inside out on both sides of the ball. Gather decent depth so we aren’t stuck with players on the field that wouldn’t even be on most other rosters. Not winning many games until the QB is found would be ideal in order to obtain as much draft capital every year to actually build a team.

Hooker from Tennessee in the second or third round should be part of Plan A. If we miss out on Hooker, choose another project QB with potential. Repeat every year. Its not a big deal if it takes the Raiders 2-3 years to find their QB. It’s going to take at least 2-3 years to gather enough talent to compete with the big boys anyway.
 
With just over two months before the NFL draft, the Raiders have parted ways with three scouts.

Scouting coordinator Jack Gilmore and area scouts Shemy Schembechler and Zack Crockett have been let go by the Raiders.


Gilmore and Schembechler — the son of legendary Michigan football coach Bo Shembechler — came aboard with the Raiders shortly after Mike Mayock was named general manager after the 2018 season.

Schembechler tweeted about being relieved of his duties: “As of today, my time with the Raiders has come to an end. It was a great experience to work with some of the best people in the business! I look forward to what comes next! God Bless!”

Crockett, a longtime NFL fullback who played for the Raiders from 1999 to 2007, has been working with the club as its Southeast area scout for 14 seasons.


The Raiders replaced Mayock with Dave Ziegler just over a year ago, and it was expected that he would tinker with the personnel department and bring in staff members more aligned with his vision.

The upcoming draft is a critical one for the Raiders, who own nine draft picks, including the seventh overall. They will soon add two more compensatory picks and could add even more draft capital if they can trade quarterback Derek Carr.
 
Chadstroma said:
With just over two months before the NFL draft, the Raiders have parted ways with three scouts.

Scouting coordinator Jack Gilmore and area scouts Shemy Schembechler and Zack Crockett have been let go by the Raiders.


Gilmore and Schembechler — the son of legendary Michigan football coach Bo Shembechler — came aboard with the Raiders shortly after Mike Mayock was named general manager after the 2018 season.

Schembechler tweeted about being relieved of his duties: “As of today, my time with the Raiders has come to an end. It was a great experience to work with some of the best people in the business! I look forward to what comes next! God Bless!”

Crockett, a longtime NFL fullback who played for the Raiders from 1999 to 2007, has been working with the club as its Southeast area scout for 14 seasons.


The Raiders replaced Mayock with Dave Ziegler just over a year ago, and it was expected that he would tinker with the personnel department and bring in staff members more aligned with his vision.

The upcoming draft is a critical one for the Raiders, who own nine draft picks, including the seventh overall. They will soon add two more compensatory picks and could add even more draft capital if they can trade quarterback Derek Carr.
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Hopefully this is evidence that they are keeping their picks this year instead of trading them away for an over-priced, over-the-hill, wishy-washy QB for probably one year’s service.
 

DEREK CARRQB, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS
Derek_Carr_496083..jpg

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports that the Saints and Raiders have the framework of a Derek Carr trade in place.​

Carr visited with the Saints over the last two days and now Carr will decide whether to move forward with the Saints or not -- he has a no-trade clause and can veto any deal. The Raiders would likely be forced to release their longtime starting quarterback if they can't agree to a trade by 4 PM on Tuesday, as it would contractually guarantee his 2023 base salary of $32.9 million. Carr would be more of a buy-low win for the Saints than some obvious franchise-changing masterstroke, but he's far and away better than what they had on the roster at quarterback last season.
 
ICON211 said:

DEREK CARRQB, LAS VEGAS RAIDERS
View attachment 3451

NFL Network's Tom Pelissero reports that the Saints and Raiders have the framework of a Derek Carr trade in place.​

Carr visited with the Saints over the last two days and now Carr will decide whether to move forward with the Saints or not -- he has a no-trade clause and can veto any deal. The Raiders would likely be forced to release their longtime starting quarterback if they can't agree to a trade by 4 PM on Tuesday, as it would contractually guarantee his 2023 base salary of $32.9 million. Carr would be more of a buy-low win for the Saints than some obvious franchise-changing masterstroke, but he's far and away better than what they had on the roster at quarterback last season.
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Is this actually new info? Seems Pelisero is just reaffirming what was indicated days earlier - that the Raiders would only allow Carr to interview with a team after they come to acceptable trade terms first.
 
It does seem like the Saints thing may be getting close to being something done. The Saints and Raiders have an agreement or at least the broad strokes of an agreement in place or else the first visit would not have happened. Carr is making his SECOND visit there which would be unlikely to happen if things were not very close to being done and agreed on. The connection to Dennis Allen also makes this seem like a destination Carr may be comfortable with and waive the no trade clause for. For the Saints, they have a good team in place still but key parts are aging. They have no clear QB in place. It isn't my favorite spot for Carr (the Jets just make so much sense to me for him and the Jets) but it would be a good place for him to land and would have a good offense in place and good defense to make it worthwhile for both parties and then we get some value back for losing Carr.

My biggest fear is losing Carr for absolutely nothing in return.
 
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