massraider
Footballguy
I really have no idea. And my posting history here makes it clear I have no idea about QBs (Big Manziel Fan!!).
I do know that any plans involving rolling with Stidham for a year and seeing how he does makes me physically ill
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2023 Las Vegas Raiders - RIP Jack - one of the greatest Super Bowl moments ever (2 Viewers)
- Thread starter Hankmoody
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I do know that any plans involving rolling with Stidham for a year and seeing how he does makes me physically ill
From what I’ve seen and read, he’s a tad slower than Jackson, but a faster version of Josh Allen. Passing ability needs a lot of work though. But if he’s coachable that can be fixed. He would have 3 preseason games and depending on how soon the Raiders are out of playoff contention in 2023, 2-7 games during the regular season to develop.
Chaka
Footballguy
If it leads to the #1 overall in 2024 it makes me physically giddy.
Chaka
Footballguy
I love Richardson's size and he seems to have excellent athleticism but teaching accuracy, touch, pocket awareness on top of teaching how to read an NFL defense while running, perhaps the most complex scheme in the NFL seems like a huge risk. Grab BPA or trade down for more draft capital.
massraider
Footballguy
That's not a plan.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Dude is too sensitive but went through 9 years of basic QB hell being a model of what you want from a QB. It couldn't possibly be anything else. I see it.
I mean, why would you expect someone who did that for 9 years go to a stable situation with a team that actually is built to win and a HC that is much more Bisaccia than McD just because of the NYer fanbase that isn't anything like the Raider fanbase and isn't absolutely dying for a QB that is at least a near top 10 QB since they haven't had one since Namath. Yea, it has trainwreck all over it.
You won me over.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Ok... brace yourself....Can’t it just be as simple as Carr was finally over it? Dude dealt With straight garbage for 9 years. No knock on him. I’ve had to live through 20 years of it
a lot of the team seems to really like mcD. A lot of the leaders like him and his approach. It nay have just been the last straw for Carr. I’m excited and nervous to see a new qb back there. A change was needed. Let’s see what happens.
We agree.
Clearly this nit pick, demand perfection, blow you up if you mess up, etc "Patriot Way" can win. I mean... we have seen it. One should also see how after time this approach could end up getting old (see Brady and Belicheat break up). That isn't a knock on anyone. It isn't a knock on that type of coaching. It isn't a knock on someone who doesn't flourish in that type of coaching. It isn't for everyone. I know I wouldn't flourish in that type of coaching. In doing grad work in Org Leadership, I spent a lot of time reading, thinking, working through these type of things and you can think about it like an offensive or defensive system.... you can either have your system and get personnel that fit it or you can change your system to fit your personnel. Same with coaching. You can coach the way you coach and get people who respond to that or you can change how you coach to the people you have.
I suspect Carr would not have reacted on this if not for ALL the other stuff over the years and now to add on to it. Sometimes, it just comes to a breaking point and the relationship with the Raiders and Carr came to that point. Good or bad it is where it is. Hopefully we find a QB. Hopefully. Cause life in the NFL sucks without one.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Willis is far from having his NFL story fully written. He was drafted with everyone knowing he was extremely raw and needed to not see the field this year. He was pressed into service and as soon as I heard that I expected it to be a mistake. He may be a bust but there is no way his rookie year is the judge of that.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Seriously though... even experts don't have an idea. If so, Purdy would not have been Mr. Irrelevant and Tribusky wouldn't have even been a first rounder.
(Though I was right about Manziel... I felt like he benefited greatly from Evans as a WR which is why I was so high on Evans- went out of my way to draft him in my leagues and avoided Manziel).
ICON211
Footballguy
Oh I agree that Willis can not be written off yet. There were people that thought he should be drafted in the first round though. You don't take a guy that is that raw and that far away from being good as he appeared in the first round.
While I agree they should be focused on the line of scrimmage (Dline, Oline and edge) as well DBs but it’s so early, it’s technically not even the offseason yet. Their free agent moves will also dictate their draft strategy. I would love that the Raiders become one of those teams like the 9ers that can compete for a Super Bowl with a 7th round draft pick at QB. Or for my arguments sake, a project at QB, but it’s going to take years to get there.
McZ have a couple years to get this right, they’ve got to take a risk. For me personally I’d rather see them take a swing at a highly talented, multi dimensional QB to build around and develop on a 5th year option rookie contract than drafting another Abram or Ferrell.
Chaka
Footballguy
The Brady Belichick relationship lasted long enough to vote. It was a year away from being able to drink.
Carr & McDaniels barely made it out of the first trimester.
raidersraidersraiders
Footballguy
bring in manziel!
DocHolliday
Footballguy
The niners didn’t take that swing on Purdy in the first round and the Raiders shouldn’t take a swing in the first round on a QB either. The Raiders. must build a TEAM and find a QB eventually. This team isn’t going to the SB with Mahomes on the roster. There are no shortcuts.
I hear ya. And I agree. BUT there are no Bosas, Garretts or Ramsays in this year’s draft, especially where they’re picking. I’m no draft expert but if there is possibly for a game changer at QB and a 10 year starter at RT at pick #7 I’d prefer them stick with Munford and draft Lamar Jackson 2.0. Imagine him and Jacobs in the same backfield. Could he be Terrell Pryor? Sure, but the kid would not have declared for the draft if he wasn’t informed he has a high chance of going in the 1st round. He’s got some issues for sure, but man, the kid has some serious talent.
Chaka
Footballguy
12 career starts man. 393 career pass attempts.
I hate that. Might as well trade for Trey Lance.
Lamar was a 3 year starter with 35 starts and over 1,000 pass attempts in his college career.
Chaka
Footballguy
32 Counter Pass
Footballguy
I would not be so hasty to declare there will not be impact players available at the 7th spot. I would be shocked to see Jalen Walker or Will Anderson available at that point. But Myles Murphy, Bryan Breese, Isaiah Fosley are just a few of the potential impact players that could be available. Remember J J Watt was drafted with pick 11.
And yes there will definitely be some very good tackles at the 7 pick.
You guys are being smart, I get it. But we have almost zero draft history from Ziegler to draw from. McD on the other hand has shown in the past he’s not afraid to roll the dice on a project QB in the 1st round. And let’s not forget, he did guide them to the playoffs with Tebow within a year of drafting him. All I’m saying, the Derek Carr era is over, they have to shoot for the moon.
Unless they work a trade for DE Will Anderson or if DT Carter slides a little to #7, those are the only two blue chip defenders I’d get excited about. I guess there’s Gonzalez or Witherspoon at CB too that will probably be there at #7
But I’m at the point in my Raiders fandom (relationship) that I’m ready for a big swing. I’m tired of wasting draft picks on safeties and RTs. This kid is not JaMarcus Russell, Terrell Pryor? (Gulp.. maybe…) But he can also be the new cutting edge NFL QB, imagine the RPOs and how his athleticism will open up the offense. C’mon! Let’s get behind this. Get a dynamic QB on a rookie contract and build around him like Philly did, the Raiders can do this!
Chaka
Footballguy
John Fox was the Broncos coach when they made the playoffs with Tebow. McDaniels was fired the previous season and only coached Tebow for 12 games in his rookie year.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i just don't want to see a repeat of the ruggs fiasco. lamb and juedy just sitting there. 
or any of the other AWFUL picks they've made over the last 20 years. NO DBS in the first. please!
or any of the other AWFUL picks they've made over the last 20 years. NO DBS in the first. please!I see what you’re trying to do here. It was bad but it was also the 2nd career start for a 20 year old kid. I bet if we dig up Josh Allen’s 2nd start at Wyoming, it wouldn’t be pretty either.
The kid has a lot of work to do for sure, but the crazy athleticism is there and he’s only 21. I don’t know, if his mind isn’t right, then pass on him for sure. But if he’s smart and coachable and can stay outta trouble in Las Vegas, then I say roll the dice and take the risk.
I stand corrected, still, part of my point being, McD is not afraid to shake up the QB position by alienating a vet QB and drafting a project in the 1st round. Really, I’m just trying to prepare you guys for the inevitable Raiders craziness that is coming our way in a few months
Chaka
Footballguy
Pryor started played in 39 games and started at least 26 of them at OSU.
Richardson is fun to watch but he's just so raw. Gonna lose at least two years on that cheap rookie deal before he's leading anyone anywhere.
Chaka
Footballguy
Ruggs wasn't a fiasco, we've covered this extensively.i just don't want to see a repeat of the ruggs fiasco. lamb and juedy just sitting there.
And what has Jeudy done?
I understand that. It may be true, but also he could be the next Jalen Hurts/Allen/Jackson. It all depends on his character, which I know nothing about but the athleticism is there.
Chaka
Footballguy
I honestly don't have an agenda. I fully recognize how tantalizing his physical ability is. He's just so very raw. Not sure I want to go down that path.
Maybe we should look at his last college game instead because it is an absolute microcosm of the mixed bag he brings to the table.
I'd he's drafted he better come with a lifetime supply of Mylanta.
Chaka
Footballguy
Sure, but all three of those guys started at least 24 games in college. None of them were close to as raw as Richardson.
Trey Lance is probably a better comp and we know nothing about him as a pro unfortunately.
I was pounding the table for him, but the more I thought about it, why not go after someone younger, cheaper and healthier. I understand all the apprehension, which I share. But I think about McD’s ego and what he did with Mac Jones as a rookie. Didn’t he have a game where he only threw 3 passes and won? And while the Cam Newton experience wasn’t successful, it wasn’t all bad. McD can protect Richardson from himself with his play calling until (hopefully) he grows into a decent passer.
grateful zed
Footballguy
im so glad im not a raiders fan.
DocHolliday
Footballguy
Lamb was the pick at the time and it played out that way. Lots of posts from us begging for Lamb before the draft and crying after the draft. I pray we are past those days and the Raiders actually draft logically now .Ruggs wasn't a fiasco, we've covered this extensively.i just don't want to see a repeat of the ruggs fiasco. lamb and juedy just sitting there.
And what has Jeudy done?
Don’t hold your breath…. McD just read this and said hold myLamb was the pick at the time and it played out that way. Lots of posts from us begging for Lamb before the draft and crying after the draft. I pray we are past those days and the Raiders actually draft logically now .Ruggs wasn't a fiasco, we've covered this extensively.i just don't want to see a repeat of the ruggs fiasco. lamb and juedy just sitting there.
And what has Jeudy done?
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
more than ruggs ever will. it was a mistake. even without the tragedy.Ruggs wasn't a fiasco, we've covered this extensively.i just don't want to see a repeat of the ruggs fiasco. lamb and juedy just sitting there.
And what has Jeudy done?
ETA: gruden is such a clown. (i am contractually obligated to get these in when i can)
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
whole lot of really bad in there.
Yeah, it’s good to see some bad film with all the highlights out there right now. But if the kid is coachable, I’m on board to take a risk.
Ok, for argument’s sake. The Raiders stand pat at #7 and all the blue chip Dline defenders are gone and the best CB and best Olineman is on the board along with Levi’s and Richardson are there, who do you take? If you go BPA it’s probably the CB or Olineman. If you want a possible new face of the franchise and a game changer for the organization do you take the chance on Richardson knowing Stidham will be the day one starter in 2023 hoping the kid has the mental ability to take advantage of the coaching he will receive and take over mid season and by 2024 he’s the man. Eff it, I’m going with the kid with insane athleticism at this point. Talk me off the ledge.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
i do not take a DB. period i go OL what about a trade down? there are some qb hungry teams right after the raiders. there might actually be some value in moving down. probably won't get your boy, but this team has so many holes.
Chaka
Footballguy
Assuming a trade down isn't an option in this scenario I pop a quad and a hammy sprinting to the podium to get the OL/CB pick in.
Fair enough, but they don’t have to block for Derek Carr anymore. It’s a completely different style of offense. As a former center I know it’s easier to run block than pass block. You can design runs for your QB like Buffalo and and Baltimore do. McD has done this in the past with Cam Newton. I’m not delusional, I can be completely wrong, but if Richardson has the mental tools along with the physical tools, this can work.
Agreed, but aren’t the Raiders one of those QB hungry teams? It’s time to take this thing in a whole new direction.
Chadstroma
Footballguy
Reports of teams asking about Waller and Renfrow. Waller... I am ok with trading with his age. Renfrow... I am not. He is young enough that we can build around and he is a piece we want to keep.
I agree, I’d rather keep Foster.
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
DA RAIDERS
Footballguy
You’re not worried about renfrow rounding back into form? He really looked broken.
Chaka
Footballguy
I very much respect that you are planting your flag for this kid. I don't follow the college game so It know nothing about his character or work ethic so I will assume they are non factors.
I completely understand why you are stumping for him when I look at him. Great size, can run like the wind and throw the ball a mile. If he hits his ceiling he's going to be a monster to defend against.
So instead of making a "why the Raiders shouldn't" argument I am going to ask if anyone has info about college QBs with one season as a starter. Lance is the only one that immediately comes to mind but I'm sure there are more. Any success stories?
Chaka
Footballguy
CB, not "DB" we're not talking about a safety here.
CB is a premier position in the NFL. Right after QB and DE.
Why wouldn't you want a Patrick Surtain II type in the back four?
Chaka
Footballguy
I'm not. I'll bet on his work ethic any day.
joey
Footballguy
in the 2nd to last game I believe, I thought to myself “he’s back” when watching Renfrow play in that game. And it made me dream of what-might-have-been on offense with him+Adams+Jacobs+Hollins +Waller. so I’m game for keeping Renfrow around, shipping out Waller and using that space to improve the D.
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