2023 Las Vegas Raiders (4 Viewers)

[Chaka]

I'm in the camp that more than one thing can be wrong with the offense. The line has been terrible in all phases, Jacobs isn't the guy we hoped he was and Jimmy is meh.

I see the same Jacobs as last year. Dude is getting ZERO blocking. None. DL are in his face a split second after each hand off.

I said the line has been terrible in all phases.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

To me, it’s both sides of the line. The interior D line gets little to no push(hi jalen!). And the interior o line is getting man handled. Jimmy doesn’t seem comfortable yet. Except on the first few drives of the game. are they more scripted?

and I’ve noticed, other than Miami, a lot of offenses seem out of sync. Is it the lack of preseason reps for the starters? There’s a few teams other than Miami that are humming, but it’s not just the raiders.

still struggling with that FG call. Irritated in general with this crap.

 

[Chadstroma]

I don't think this is really a Jacobs issue. You're watching it and there's not much there, teams seem to be stacking the box and are much less afraid of Garropolo than they were of Carr.

Jacobs is 45th in the NFL / 48 in yards before contact with 1.0 yard on average. He's averaging 1.4 yards / after contaact which is around average.

It appears Jimmy G can't or won't throw further than 10 yards down field. So... it stands to reason that defenses are compressing the field to stop the running game and short passing game and daring him to actually throw deep.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

I don't think this is really a Jacobs issue. You're watching it and there's not much there, teams seem to be stacking the box and are much less afraid of Garropolo than they were of Carr.

Jacobs is 45th in the NFL / 48 in yards before contact with 1.0 yard on average. He's averaging 1.4 yards / after contaact which is around average.

It appears Jimmy G can't or won't throw further than 10 yards down field. So... it stands to reason that defenses are compressing the field to stop the running game and short passing game and daring him to actually throw deep.

Other than the ints, jimmy g is putting up more less the same stats. If my research is correct, his yards per attempt is 7.5. Down .7 from his career average.

it’s easiest to blame the coach and the qb. But I think it’s more coach than qb atm. I really don’t want to move on from mcd for the simple reason that they just can’t keep switching coaches.

 

[Bruno2]

I don't think this is really a Jacobs issue. You're watching it and there's not much there, teams seem to be stacking the box and are much less afraid of Garropolo than they were of Carr.

Jacobs is 45th in the NFL / 48 in yards before contact with 1.0 yard on average. He's averaging 1.4 yards / after contaact which is around average.

It appears Jimmy G can't or won't throw further than 10 yards down field. So... it stands to reason that defenses are compressing the field to stop the running game and short passing game and daring him to actually throw deep.

Other than the ints, jimmy g is putting up more less the same stats. If my research is correct, his yards per attempt is 7.5. Down .7 from his career average.

it’s easiest to blame the coach and the qb. But I think it’s more coach than qb atm. I really don’t want to move on from mcd for the simple reason that they just can’t keep switching coaches.

I’d be surprised if Davis doesn’t give this regime four years. That’s why coming into this season I wasn’t expecting a playoff push. Now the McD and Ziegler have “their guys” I’d expect the heat to be turned up substantially. Especially if the offense can’t get it together. And for Ziegler if Wilson keeps struggling into next season. Passing on Carter for an injured project might come back to bite them. I hope I’m wrong.

 

[LawFitz]

I'm in the camp that more than one thing can be wrong with the offense. The line has been terrible in all phases, Jacobs isn't the guy we hoped he was and Jimmy is meh.

I see the same Jacobs as last year. Dude is getting ZERO blocking. None. DL are in his face a split second after each hand off.

I said the line has been terrible in all phases.

You also said Jacobs isn't the guy we hoped he was. I see the same guy, but with a supporting cast that went from decent to dog****.

 

[Chaka]

I'm in the camp that more than one thing can be wrong with the offense. The line has been terrible in all phases, Jacobs isn't the guy we hoped he was and Jimmy is meh.

I see the same Jacobs as last year. Dude is getting ZERO blocking. None. DL are in his face a split second after each hand off.

I said the line has been terrible in all phases.

You also said Jacobs isn't the guy we hoped he was. I see the same guy, but with a supporting cast that went from decent to dog****.

He isn't the guy we saw last year. No one should expect a repeat of a career year from him. He's very good, he isn't McCaffrey.

He has plenty to own for his production. We can't just pin it on the line, Jimmy or McDaniels and call it a day.

390+ touches, no off season program and unhappy with his compensation.

 

[LawFitz]

We can't just pin it on the line, Jimmy or McDaniels and call it a day.

Yes, we absolutely can. And I do.

 

[Chaka]

We can't just pin it on the line, Jimmy or McDaniels and call it a day.

Yes, we absolutely can. And I do.

Allow it.

 

[Chadstroma]

The difference here is at QB from last year.

Same coachs. Same line. Same RB. Mostly same WR but better than last year. Different TE's, but I would love to see the argument for that being the issue.

Three separate teams have said, "Jimmy G, we know who you are. If we take the running game from you and clamp down on the short passing game, you are toast. We aren't scared of you passing long on us. And now, you don't have a league leading defense to bail you out." And there you go. 1-3

 

[Ray_T]

I am sure it is a combination of things. I fully agree that you cannot run a dink and dunk offense and not have it affect your run game. of course it will. guys will stack the box more if you dont ever throw deep in an attempt to make them pay for it. and if the line isnt doing what they are supposed to, that will make matters worse.

I dont know what else to say. so far its not looking great.

 

[btemp]

I don't think this is really a Jacobs issue. You're watching it and there's not much there, teams seem to be stacking the box and are much less afraid of Garropolo than they were of Carr.

Jacobs is 45th in the NFL / 48 in yards before contact with 1.0 yard on average. He's averaging 1.4 yards / after contaact which is around average.

It appears Jimmy G can't or won't throw further than 10 yards down field. So... it stands to reason that defenses are compressing the field to stop the running game and short passing game and daring him to actually throw deep.

Other than the ints, jimmy g is putting up more less the same stats. If my research is correct, his yards per attempt is 7.5. Down .7 from his career average.

it’s easiest to blame the coach and the qb. But I think it’s more coach than qb atm. I really don’t want to move on from mcd for the simple reason that they just can’t keep switching coaches.

I agree, although partly because I think McDaniels isn't that great a coach.

It's amazing what playing with the greatest QB in NFL history does to your career. Take a look at the Patriots points/for with Brady (sort by Passer): https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nwe/index.htm

The Pats LOWEST points for was 12th with Brady! Ever. They averaged 4.8th. With the Bucs they were 2nd, 3rd, and 25th in his final season. That's unreal - and that's with Weis, O'Brien, McDaniels, Leftwich... It didn't matter who .

ALL THAT TO SAY: I am skeptical how good any of those OCs actually were. None had offensive success (never mind HC success) outside of coaching Brady. O'Brien has averaged something like 25th in points for and McDaniels ~28th. So is McDaniel's a competent OC without the greatest QB of all time? Statistically - no.

/stats rant

Garropolo has always been a poor deep ball thrower, you can find this well back into his 49ers days (example: https://ninernoise.com/2021/09/21/49ers-never-jimmy-garoppolo-throw-deep/). Carr is flawed, but has always been very willing to target teams deep.

What happens when teams don't challenge you deep? You get out of 2-high looks and drop safeties closer to the box which helps in short throws + run defense. It's early with a new QB, so big caveat, but the team is far behind where they were earlier - 12th in yards + points last year, this year bottom 10 in both.

 

[ICON211]

Carr was definitely not the answer.
Jimmy G certainly doesn't seem to be the answer.

So here we are. A couple more losses and I'm on board with turning it over to AOC. The season is not dead yet even though it certainly is a depressing start. I agree that you have to see what you have with AOC at some point.
I'm not a big McDaniels fan, but I'm not at the level of disgust as some. If Hoyer makes even one start though I'll grab my pitchfork and join the mob.

 

[Chaka]

Carr was definitely not the answer.
Jimmy G certainly doesn't seem to be the answer.

So here we are. A couple more losses and I'm on board with turning it over to AOC. The season is not dead yet even though it certainly is a depressing start. I agree that you have to see what you have with AOC at some point.
I'm not a big McDaniels fan, but I'm not at the level of disgust as some. If Hoyer makes even one start though I'll grab my pitchfork and join the mob.

Agree if Hoyer ever sees the field something has gone catastrophically wrong.

Unfortunately McDaniels has already said if Garoppolo were to miss 1-2 games Hoyer would be the QB but if Jimmy were out for the year it would likely fall to O'Connell.

 

[DA RAIDERS]

Carr was definitely not the answer.
Jimmy G certainly doesn't seem to be the answer.

So here we are. A couple more losses and I'm on board with turning it over to AOC. The season is not dead yet even though it certainly is a depressing start. I agree that you have to see what you have with AOC at some point.
I'm not a big McDaniels fan, but I'm not at the level of disgust as some. If Hoyer makes even one start though I'll grab my pitchfork and join the mob.

same.

the team pretty much sucked with carr as qb. team seems to pretty much suck with jimmy g as qb. my mcd feelings were never super excited but i thought he might be good. that stance is souring.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

I think the pressure is on to have aoc start over hoyer. mcD is probably hoping jimmy two times recovers so he won't have to make a decision about it.

 

[Chadstroma]

I think the pressure is on to have aoc start over hoyer. mcD is probably hoping jimmy two times recovers so he won't have to make a decision about it.

I don't see how that is a decision. Give the kid a shot. We know what Hoyer is and that is a significant downgrade over Jimmy G.... which says a lot. O'Connell looked great in pre-season. I really can't say that Hoyer gives us a better chance to win than O'Connell and at least with the kid there is upside of him surprising us.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

mcdaniels is the type of guy who chooses kicking a field go when down by 8 with not much time left in the 4th.

who knows what type of logic he's working with. they got O dog inactive with "only use in case of emergency" hoyer as backup.

I don't trust the coach to make the right move here at all.

 

[BlackHole]

We can't just pin it on the line, Jimmy or McDaniels and call it a day.

Yes, we absolutely can. And I do.

I do too. Jacob's was getting yards on actual run formations. That ******** shotgun draw is dog **** and is the favorite run play of this offense so far this year. I hate that fing play.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

hondo is saying O needs to start if meatball is out. I think he' someone that knows what's going on internally with the team. I don't think hondo would be talking like that unless it was something people on the inside are pushing for.

 

[HW_53]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

 

[joey]

Thank goodness for my 5 fantasy football teams. I've needed a distraction from this mess for, say, 2 decades or so.

 

[Chaka]

We can't just pin it on the line, Jimmy or McDaniels and call it a day.

Yes, we absolutely can. And I do.

I do too. Jacob's was getting yards on actual run formations. That ******** shotgun draw is dog **** and is the favorite run play of this offense so far this year. I hate that fing play.

He averaged 5.0 ypc on 57 carries and 8.2 ypr on 35 catches out of the shotgun formation last season.

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

He had a slow start last year as well. Not this awful but, slow for sure.

 

[LawFitz]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

 

[Chaka]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

I already pointed out the o-line isn't nearly as good as last year. But the notion that Jacobs is also the same as he was during his career year is also a bit of magical thinking.

2.4 ypc belongs to everyone.

 

[32 Counter Pass]

Am I the only one that finds the problems surfacing in relation to the Raiders relocation to the shiny new stadium in Vegas both ironic and hilarious? The team is always going to struggle to have a home field advantage due to the draw of Vegas as a destination spot. But now, the team also has to factor in the vice influence Vegas may have on players. I suspect It was a factor in passing on Carter and choosing Wilson, who appears headed towards bust city. ( Yeah, it is early, but have you watched him? Zero impact.)

And, it isn’t an unreasonable to assume the Vegas environment may have played a role in Ruggs poor decision.

File this under careful what you wish for. Junior just can’t get it right, even when it universally considered to be the right decision.

 

[LawFitz]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

I already pointed out the o-line isn't nearly as good as last year. But the notion that Jacobs is also the same as he was during his career year is also a bit of magical thinking.

2.4 ypc belongs to everyone.

You keep saying this but my eye test tells me it's everyone but Jacobs. So far, at least. Give it another game or two like the first three and he will undoubtedly give up and meet your opinion.

There may not be a worse looking offense in the entire NFL so far this year. What we have seen from this O is an utter disgrace, relative to expectation, potential and what they were last year. Adams is making plays. Josh is trying but has ZERO room. Jacoby is decent. Rest of them have been complete trash. (Taking OL as a whole unit.)

 

[LawFitz]

Go back and watch Grop's 'highlights' from last weekend. His first TD to Adams was a severely underthrown 'deep' ball. That throw went like 40 yds in the air and he still underthrew it. It's not rocket science to see why teams are stacking the box. The Grop signing is equivalent to Chan Jones at this time last year - they are circling the drain with this dude.

At this point, AOC is the only thing left to maybe redeem this awful regime. Let's see if he has it, b/c if not, it's time to punt this whole crew.

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

they made one of the best free agent signings/trades we've had in the last 20 years with davante and then also gave us an awful one with jones. now slim jim ain't looking too hot either.

the drafting and development of younger players seems to be better than it has been in the past so far. be interesting to see what another draft and season of development for their guys can do.

part of the patriot way is building a team through the draft and not relying so much on free agency. that takes time. the pats also had brady and raiders do not. qb position is currently the biggest issue holding the team back.

 

[DocHolliday]

they made one of the best free agent signings/trades we've had in the last 20 years with davante and then also gave us an awful one with jones. now slim jim ain't looking too hot either.

the drafting and development of younger players seems to be better than it has been in the past so far. be interesting to see what another draft and season of development for their guys can do.

part of the patriot way is building a team through the draft and not relying so much on free agency. that takes time. the pats also had brady and raiders do not. qb position is currently the biggest issue holding the team back.

This team is not building through the draft. You don’t pass up the best player in the draft at a huge position of need and take the injured, inferior player. This team is worse than last year and it’s not close. After the loss coming up this weekend, there is going to be more light shining on the poor draft decisions, lack of creativity on O, comical FA decisions like Jones and Jimmy G, and the uninspired D. The hot seat for McD is going to be turned a notch each week and his days are numbered.

 

[Sarlakticacid]

they made one of the best free agent signings/trades we've had in the last 20 years with davante and then also gave us an awful one with jones. now slim jim ain't looking too hot either.

the drafting and development of younger players seems to be better than it has been in the past so far. be interesting to see what another draft and season of development for their guys can do.

part of the patriot way is building a team through the draft and not relying so much on free agency. that takes time. the pats also had brady and raiders do not. qb position is currently the biggest issue holding the team back.

Pats also had Bill, we do not

 

[Chaka]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

I already pointed out the o-line isn't nearly as good as last year. But the notion that Jacobs is also the same as he was during his career year is also a bit of magical thinking.

2.4 ypc belongs to everyone.

You keep saying this but my eye test tells me it's everyone but Jacobs. So far, at least. Give it another game or two like the first three and he will undoubtedly give up and meet your opinion.

There may not be a worse looking offense in the entire NFL so far this year. What we have seen from this O is an utter disgrace, relative to expectation, potential and what they were last year. Adams is making plays. Josh is trying but has ZERO room. Jacoby is decent. Rest of them have been complete trash. (Taking OL as a whole unit.)

Don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to iFight here, but your eye is not the final arbiter of talent. If it were you would win your fantasy league every single year (or have a job in scouting).

The numbers are the numbers. To suggest that one part of the whole is simply outside responsibility for those numbers defies reason.

 

[Bruno2]

Am I the only one that finds the problems surfacing in relation to the Raiders relocation to the shiny new stadium in Vegas both ironic and hilarious? The team is always going to struggle to have a home field advantage due to the draw of Vegas as a destination spot. But now, the team also has to factor in the vice influence Vegas may have on players. I suspect It was a factor in passing on Carter and choosing Wilson, who appears headed towards bust city. ( Yeah, it is early, but have you watched him? Zero impact.)

And, it isn’t an unreasonable to assume the Vegas environment may have played a role in Ruggs poor decision.

File this under careful what you wish for. Junior just can’t get it right, even when it universally considered to be the right decision.

This… I firmly believe they did not draft Carter because of the Ruggs tragedy. But bottom line, those things happen everyday in every large town and city unfortunately. Trouble will find you if you’re looking for it no matter where you live. If Crosby can stay sober in Vegas then other players can as well. The part that bothers me is they most likely didn’t draft Carter because there was no faith in their own organization to mentor the young man and help him navigate life in Vegas, not to mention, not trusting the player to grow up a little between then and now.
I was pretty high on Ziegler’s drafting up until that point. No crazy Al Davis or Jon Gruden reaches. Most picks made sense and are contributing players. I will give Wilson a year, but I still don’t like the pick.

 

[Chaka]

Am I the only one that finds the problems surfacing in relation to the Raiders relocation to the shiny new stadium in Vegas both ironic and hilarious? The team is always going to struggle to have a home field advantage due to the draw of Vegas as a destination spot. But now, the team also has to factor in the vice influence Vegas may have on players. I suspect It was a factor in passing on Carter and choosing Wilson, who appears headed towards bust city. ( Yeah, it is early, but have you watched him? Zero impact.)

And, it isn’t an unreasonable to assume the Vegas environment may have played a role in Ruggs poor decision.

File this under careful what you wish for. Junior just can’t get it right, even when it universally considered to be the right decision.

This… I firmly believe they did not draft Carter because of the Ruggs tragedy. But bottom line, those things happen everyday in every large town and city unfortunately. Trouble will find you if you’re looking for it no matter where you live. If Crosby can stay sober in Vegas then other players can as well. The part that bothers me is they most likely didn’t draft Carter because there was no faith in their own organization to mentor the young man and help him navigate life in Vegas, not to mention, not trusting the player to grow up a little between then and now.
I was pretty high on Ziegler’s drafting up until that point. No crazy Al Davis or Jon Gruden reaches. Most picks made sense and are contributing players. I will give Wilson a year, but I still don’t like the pick.

Stumped for Carter as much as anyone (and Richardson) but I was happy that Wilson wasn't considered a reach either. The thought of having the best bookend DEs since Howie & Greg Townsend* is exciting.

Early returns aren't great but he literally had been unable to practice for so long that I am hopeful he will round into form by the second half of the season. ATM he isn't even an upgrade over Cle.

*How is Howie in the HoF and Townsend doesn't even get a sniff at it? Love Howie but he made the HoF on personality as much as anything.

 

[ChiefD]

So....what in the world is going on with Chandler Jones?

 

[ZADO]

So....what in the world is going on with Chandler Jones?

He`s trying to get a section 8 so he can go play for the Chiefs

 

[LawFitz]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

I already pointed out the o-line isn't nearly as good as last year. But the notion that Jacobs is also the same as he was during his career year is also a bit of magical thinking.

2.4 ypc belongs to everyone.

You keep saying this but my eye test tells me it's everyone but Jacobs. So far, at least. Give it another game or two like the first three and he will undoubtedly give up and meet your opinion.

There may not be a worse looking offense in the entire NFL so far this year. What we have seen from this O is an utter disgrace, relative to expectation, potential and what they were last year. Adams is making plays. Josh is trying but has ZERO room. Jacoby is decent. Rest of them have been complete trash. (Taking OL as a whole unit.)

Don't take this the wrong way as I'm not trying to iFight here, but your eye is not the final arbiter of talent. If it were you would win your fantasy league every single year (or have a job in scouting).

The numbers are the numbers. To suggest that one part of the whole is simply outside responsibility for those numbers defies reason.

Never said my eye is a final arbiter. But for me, it's my first and primary arbiter, which I then support or refute with numbers. Speaking of which, these were posted up thread and are a better gauge of our disagreement than the YPC stat you are using...

Jacobs is 45th in the NFL / 48 in yards before contact with 1.0 yard on average.

I suspect most OL stats for the Raiders this year are a joke compared to where they stood last year. No RB in the league would be having success with the blocking we've seen from this crew so far this year. Hopefully for JJ and the entire team, they figure out why that is (Jimmy?) and how to correct it (AOC?) soon.

 

[Chadstroma]

mcdaniels is the type of guy who chooses kicking a field go when down by 8 with not much time left in the 4th.

who knows what type of logic he's working with. they got O dog inactive with "only use in case of emergency" hoyer as backup.

I don't trust the coach to make the right move here at all.

He is a big analytics guy, no?

 

[Chadstroma]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

I was probably the biggest voice around here against hiring him. I don't know if I lied to myself or what but then I backed off of that and was hopeful. We are not seeing anything that suggests he is a legit NFL HC. I do think he learned from mistakes he made in Denver, so I get him credit there but evidence points to him being a failure at HC and probably back in NE in a couple of seasons.

 

[Chadstroma]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

Go back to those highlights.... teams didn't consistently put 8 or 9 defenders within the first 5 yards of scrimmage like they are now. The Oline didn't forget how to run block overnight, it is harder to run block the entire defense on every run play because the opposing DC is daring us to even try a long pass. The other team knows, if we shut down the running game and we clamp down on the short passing game- they can't do anything else.

 

[LawFitz]

But, sure he bears no responsibility for his slow start.

Go back and watch the blocking from last year's highlights. Then compare to this year. It's night and day. No RB in the entire league would do anything with the **** blocking we are seeing this season. Absolutely not Jacobs fault.

Go back to those highlights.... teams didn't consistently put 8 or 9 defenders within the first 5 yards of scrimmage like they are now. The Oline didn't forget how to run block overnight, it is harder to run block the entire defense on every run play because the opposing DC is daring us to even try a long pass. The other team knows, if we shut down the running game and we clamp down on the short passing game- they can't do anything else.

Spot on. I've been saying for pages now that I suspect the root cause here is an utter lack of respect for Jimmy's noodle. Go back and watch the first TD pass to Adams in the Pitt game. Pathetic.

 

[Chadstroma]

Am I the only one that finds the problems surfacing in relation to the Raiders relocation to the shiny new stadium in Vegas both ironic and hilarious? The team is always going to struggle to have a home field advantage due to the draw of Vegas as a destination spot. But now, the team also has to factor in the vice influence Vegas may have on players. I suspect It was a factor in passing on Carter and choosing Wilson, who appears headed towards bust city. ( Yeah, it is early, but have you watched him? Zero impact.)

And, it isn’t an unreasonable to assume the Vegas environment may have played a role in Ruggs poor decision.

File this under careful what you wish for. Junior just can’t get it right, even when it universally considered to be the right decision.

This… I firmly believe they did not draft Carter because of the Ruggs tragedy. But bottom line, those things happen everyday in every large town and city unfortunately. Trouble will find you if you’re looking for it no matter where you live. If Crosby can stay sober in Vegas then other players can as well. The part that bothers me is they most likely didn’t draft Carter because there was no faith in their own organization to mentor the young man and help him navigate life in Vegas, not to mention, not trusting the player to grow up a little between then and now.
I was pretty high on Ziegler’s drafting up until that point. No crazy Al Davis or Jon Gruden reaches. Most picks made sense and are contributing players. I will give Wilson a year, but I still don’t like the pick.

Stumped for Carter as much as anyone (and Richardson) but I was happy that Wilson wasn't considered a reach either. The thought of having the best bookend DEs since Howie & Greg Townsend* is exciting.

Early returns aren't great but he literally had been unable to practice for so long that I am hopeful he will round into form by the second half of the season. ATM he isn't even an upgrade over Cle.

*How is Howie in the HoF and Townsend doesn't even get a sniff at it? Love Howie but he made the HoF on personality as much as anything.

Agreed but 11 snaps is depressing

 

[Chadstroma]

So....what in the world is going on with Chandler Jones?

Apparently was admitted against his will and got out Monday. Still thinks he is sane and everyone else is crazy and out to get him.

 

[ZADO]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

I was probably the biggest voice around here against hiring him. I don't know if I lied to myself or what but then I backed off of that and was hopeful. We are not seeing anything that suggests he is a legit NFL HC. I do think he learned from mistakes he made in Denver, so I get him credit there but evidence points to him being a failure at HC and probably back in NE in a couple of seasons.

He was the beneficiary of a perfect storm having Billy B and Brady in the same circle and has now cashed in on it, the only person who didnt need the circle to succeed was Brady ,which he proved in Tampa . I wouldnt mind McD staying on as the OC and Ziegler at his current position, he seems a decent evaluator of NFL talent. We need an experienced HC who is a leader of men and makes good decisions based on that experience. Jim Harbaugh comes to mind.

 

[Chadstroma]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

I was probably the biggest voice around here against hiring him. I don't know if I lied to myself or what but then I backed off of that and was hopeful. We are not seeing anything that suggests he is a legit NFL HC. I do think he learned from mistakes he made in Denver, so I get him credit there but evidence points to him being a failure at HC and probably back in NE in a couple of seasons.

He was the beneficiary of a perfect storm having Billy B and Brady in the same circle and has now cashed in on it, the only person who didnt need the circle to succeed was Brady ,which he proved in Tampa . I wouldnt mind McD staying on as the OC and Ziegler at his current position, he seems a decent evaluator of NFL talent. We need an experienced HC who is a leader of men and makes good decisions based on that experience. Jim Harbaugh comes to mind.

Jim Harbaugh being my preferred candidate instead of hiring McD, assuming we couldn't get Payton or Tomlin. At the time Payton just left coaching and it would be insane for Pittsburgh to let Tomlin go but there were some rumblings of moronic Steeler fans calling for it.

 

[ICON211]

Am I the only one that finds the problems surfacing in relation to the Raiders relocation to the shiny new stadium in Vegas both ironic and hilarious? The team is always going to struggle to have a home field advantage due to the draw of Vegas as a destination spot. But now, the team also has to factor in the vice influence Vegas may have on players. I suspect It was a factor in passing on Carter and choosing Wilson, who appears headed towards bust city. ( Yeah, it is early, but have you watched him? Zero impact.)

And, it isn’t an unreasonable to assume the Vegas environment may have played a role in Ruggs poor decision.

File this under careful what you wish for. Junior just can’t get it right, even when it universally considered to be the right decision.

This… I firmly believe they did not draft Carter because of the Ruggs tragedy. But bottom line, those things happen everyday in every large town and city unfortunately. Trouble will find you if you’re looking for it no matter where you live. If Crosby can stay sober in Vegas then other players can as well. The part that bothers me is they most likely didn’t draft Carter because there was no faith in their own organization to mentor the young man and help him navigate life in Vegas, not to mention, not trusting the player to grow up a little between then and now.
I was pretty high on Ziegler’s drafting up until that point. No crazy Al Davis or Jon Gruden reaches. Most picks made sense and are contributing players. I will give Wilson a year, but I still don’t like the pick.

Stumped for Carter as much as anyone (and Richardson) but I was happy that Wilson wasn't considered a reach either. The thought of having the best bookend DEs since Howie & Greg Townsend* is exciting.

Early returns aren't great but he literally had been unable to practice for so long that I am hopeful he will round into form by the second half of the season. ATM he isn't even an upgrade over Cle.

*How is Howie in the HoF and Townsend doesn't even get a sniff at it? Love Howie but he made the HoF on personality as much as anything.

Agreed but 11 snaps is depressing

Is that what he played Sunday night? He was supposedly dealing with an illness. In any event, obviously disappointing so far.

 

[Bruno2]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

I was probably the biggest voice around here against hiring him. I don't know if I lied to myself or what but then I backed off of that and was hopeful. We are not seeing anything that suggests he is a legit NFL HC. I do think he learned from mistakes he made in Denver, so I get him credit there but evidence points to him being a failure at HC and probably back in NE in a couple of seasons.

He was the beneficiary of a perfect storm having Billy B and Brady in the same circle and has now cashed in on it, the only person who didnt need the circle to succeed was Brady ,which he proved in Tampa . I wouldnt mind McD staying on as the OC and Ziegler at his current position, he seems a decent evaluator of NFL talent. We need an experienced HC who is a leader of men and makes good decisions based on that experience. Jim Harbaugh comes to mind.

Jim Harbaugh being my preferred candidate instead of hiring McD, assuming we couldn't get Payton or Tomlin. At the time Payton just left coaching and it would be insane for Pittsburgh to let Tomlin go but there were some rumblings of moronic Steeler fans calling for it.

Personally I’m tired of retreads. If McD gets canned in the near future I hope Davis goes the young up and coming OC route. I have no idea who that would be. Maybe someone from the Shanahan or McVey coaching tree.

 

[Chaka]

Not sure I ever believed in McD as a coach - meaning, leader of men. He may be a great coordinator, but he inspires no confidence. Passing on Carter was a must for this team considering the legacy that Ruggs had left, but nevertheless was an error so far based on early returns. I wouldn't be surprised if the Raiders end up tanking hard enough to select Williams. It's that bad.

I was probably the biggest voice around here against hiring him. I don't know if I lied to myself or what but then I backed off of that and was hopeful. We are not seeing anything that suggests he is a legit NFL HC. I do think he learned from mistakes he made in Denver, so I get him credit there but evidence points to him being a failure at HC and probably back in NE in a couple of seasons.

He was the beneficiary of a perfect storm having Billy B and Brady in the same circle and has now cashed in on it, the only person who didnt need the circle to succeed was Brady ,which he proved in Tampa . I wouldnt mind McD staying on as the OC and Ziegler at his current position, he seems a decent evaluator of NFL talent. We need an experienced HC who is a leader of men and makes good decisions based on that experience. Jim Harbaugh comes to mind.

Jim Harbaugh being my preferred candidate instead of hiring McD, assuming we couldn't get Payton or Tomlin. At the time Payton just left coaching and it would be insane for Pittsburgh to let Tomlin go but there were some rumblings of moronic Steeler fans calling for it.

I would prefer Harbaugh too. And he's he's still available...

 

[raidersraidersraiders]

https://www.si.com/nfl/raiders/the-black-hole-plus/josh-mcdaniels-bill-belichick-tom-brady-las-vegas-raiders-maxx-crosby-davante-adams

 

[LawFitz]

Jimmay missed practice today and is still in concussion protocol. Picked up AOC in my Superflex league. Fork in the road moment may be here, afterall. I never root for injury, but I think Jimmunga should be benched even if healthy, so hoping dude rests his rattled brain this week. Door is creeking toward open for the uber rook vs. the worst pass D in football this Sunday. Might even have to swing a last minute trip to Sofi if AOC gets the start!