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2023 NY Giants - (Schoen & Daboll episode 2 – Danny turns Dimes into Dollars) (1 Viewer)

Cardinals release DeAndre Hopkins: Giants should pursue him as target for Daniel Jones​

There's not enough room for everyone ... but there will be injuries and disappointments PS, and PUP ... So why not !

Imagine
  1. Hopkins (Waller @ TE and Saquan @ RB)
  2. Slayton
  3. Campbell
  4. Hyatt
  5. Hodgins
  6. Crowder (Punt Returner)
  7. Jeff Smith (they might want to keep him for ST)
  8. Robinson (PUP)
  9. Shepherd (PUP)
  10. Collin Johnson (practice Sq)
  11. BFWheaton (practice sq ... he will probably be snatched up by another team if he is there)
 
Hopkins still has “it”. He can be our Alpha. This is a move you got to try to make. It’s not going to be free, but at least you keep your draft capital.
 
I doubt this happens but you still have to make the call. I'd guess Bills or Ravens is where hopkins lands.
Ravens just signed Odell and Drafted Zay Flowers in the 1st rd ... Hopkins was recently working out with Barkley and Odell.
It would be nice but yeah ... I doubt it
 
IF you think we can win it all THIS year then Hopkins would be a must get,but we're only in year two of the reconstruction process so I don't think it happens. Trust The Process.
I don't think the Giants are "a WR away" from being a championship team, but they will probably kick the tires. I doubt DHop would want to play for the Giants (they weren't on his list of desired places).
Obviously, the Giants don't have an established #1 WR on their roster, it will be interesting to see if one of the many WR on the roster grows into that role this season.
 

Cardinals release DeAndre Hopkins: Giants should pursue him as target for Daniel Jones​

There's not enough room for everyone ... but there will be injuries and disappointments PS, and PUP ... So why not !

Imagine
  1. Hopkins (Waller @ TE and Saquan @ RB)
  2. Slayton
  3. Campbell
  4. Hyatt
  5. Hodgins
  6. Crowder (Punt Returner)
  7. Jeff Smith (they might want to keep him for ST)
  8. Robinson (PUP)
  9. Shepherd (PUP)
  10. Collin Johnson (practice Sq)
  11. BFWheaton (practice sq ... he will probably be snatched up by another team if he is there)
nope.criminally baaaad idea and will never happen. we learned what OBJ means and it's the same thing with dhopp. Giants have a decent corps of WR that play hard they don't need a Queen on the team now. no way ,no how
 
The Giants WRs really don't look that great when you break down the 14 WRs on the roster - Hyatt is really the only one that has #1 potential and there are only 4 that look like a sure thing to make the opening day roster.

These 4 are opening day locks to make the roster (this is not a strong group)
  1. Darius Slayton
  2. Isaiah Hodgins
  3. Parris Campbell
  4. Jalin Hyatt
Jeff Smith (Special Teams)

These 4 Coming off of serious injuries
Jamison Crowder (Broken Ankle) Probably the #5 opening day
Wan'Dale Robinson (Torn ACL - week 11) PUP
Sterling Shepard (Torn ACL ) PUP
Collin Johnson (Torn Achilles) PUP

Unlikely to make the roster
Bryce Ford-Wheaton (Practice Squad)
David Sills V (Practice Squad)
Kalil Pimpleton
Jaydon Mickens
Makai Polk
 
ESPN+ Bill Barnwell: Ranking best, worst 2023 NFL offseasons: Which teams improved?

29. New York Giants

What went right: The Giants brought in a variety of receivers for Daniel Jones, but I'm not sure they landed that No. 1 guy who might have been on general manager Joe Schoen's list. Still, after running out Isaiah Hodgins, Darius Slayton, Richie James and Daniel Bellinger as primary receivers in a playoff victory last season, Schoen has added a whole fleet of playmakers to the passing game this offseason.

Hodgins, Slayton and Bellinger return, but New York also brought back Sterling Shepard, who is recovering from a torn ACL. Parris Campbell, who finally stayed healthy with the Colts last season, was added in free agency. Schoen then used a third-round pick on speedster Jalin Hyatt, who was projected as a potential first-round pick by some and adds the sort of quickness that only Slayton really had on this roster previously. With gadget receiver Wan'Dale Robinson eventually returning from his own torn ACL, the Giants should be able to sort through this mix and find three starting wideouts as the season goes along.

The biggest addition was former Raiders tight end Darren Waller. I can't fault Schoen for using a third-round pick to acquire Waller, given his production over 2020 and 2021, but Waller turns 31 in September and has played more than 50% of the offensive snaps just 16 times over the past two seasons because of various injuries. New York isn't locked into Waller for long if it doesn't work out, but it has to treat him as more of a luxury than a true top option.

What went wrong: The organization appears to have bought into its own hype. An unexpected trip to the postseason and a road victory once they got there was a pleasant surprise for the Giants, who had been treating 2023 as a year to get their salary cap right and begin a rebuild. Their underlying performance wasn't quite as impressive; they were outscored on the season and finished 21st in DVOA. They went 8-4-1 in games decided by eight or fewer points and were lucky to draw an even worse playoff opponent in the Vikings, whose DVOA ranked them as the sixth-worst team in the league.

In response, the Giants appear to be running it back. They franchise-tagged Saquon Barkley and committed to Jones, signing the same player who wasn't worth a fifth-year option 12 months earlier to a four-year, $160 million deal with $81 million guaranteed over the first two seasons. They brought back Slayton and Shepard, who seemed to be on the way out, and while those weren't major deals, the move for Jones certainly was just that.

Jones ranked sixth in Total QBR last season, so I won't be arguing that he played poorly. In terms of Jones' development, though, coach Brian Daboll squeezed just about everything out of him. The 2019 first-rounder threw the shortest average pass of any quarterback (6.0 air yards per attempt), which helped drop his interception rate to an unsustainably-low mark of 1.1%. Jones was incredible as a scrambler, but his 708 rushing yards nearly doubled his career rushing total from Years 1 through 3. He averaged just 6.8 yards per attempt and still managed to take sacks on nearly 9% of his dropbacks. Plus, he attempted just 29.5 passes per game.

On a rookie deal, that sort of production is incredibly valuable. At $40 million per year, it wouldn't be a good use of resources. Jones has to improve as a passer to justify that sort of contract, and the steps he has to take as a downfield thrower and a post-snap processor likely open him up to the turnovers he avoided in 2022.

The cap space the Giants were supposed to be clearing last year went to Jones and Barkley, which limited what they could do to upgrade a defense that ranked 29th in DVOA last season. I liked the addition of A'Shawn Robinson to one of the league's worst rush defenses, but a four-year, $40 million deal for off-ball linebacker Bobby Okereke was too aggressive at a position where the majority of useful players settled for much smaller commitments. Schoen used the team's first-round pick on much-needed cornerback Deonte Banks, but this secondary is going to struggle against an NFC East full of imposing receivers.

What's left to do: Resolve the Barkley situation. The Giants haven't sounded close to a deal with their star back, who had his best season since 2018 while playing out his fifth-year option. It's reasonable to wonder whether committing a long-term deal to him would be a good idea given his injury history, but he helps the Giants overcome their lack of impactful playmakers at wide receiver. Barkley playing out the 2023 season on the tag feels like the most likely outcome.
 
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ESPN+ Bill Barnwell: Ranking best, worst 2023 NFL offseasons: Which teams improved?

29. New York Giants

What went right: The Giants brought in a variety of receivers for Daniel Jones, but I'm not sure they landed that No. 1 guy who might have been on general manager Joe Schoen's list. Still, after running out Isaiah Hodgins, Darius Slayton, Richie James and Daniel Bellinger as primary receivers in a playoff victory last season, Schoen has added a whole fleet of playmakers to the passing game this offseason.

Hodgins, Slayton and Bellinger return, but New York also brought back Sterling Shepard, who is recovering from a torn ACL. Parris Campbell, who finally stayed healthy with the Colts last season, was added in free agency. Schoen then used a third-round pick on speedster Jalin Hyatt, who was projected as a potential first-round pick by some and adds the sort of quickness that only Slayton really had on this roster previously. With gadget receiver Wan'Dale Robinson eventually returning from his own torn ACL, the Giants should be able to sort through this mix and find three starting wideouts as the season goes along.

The biggest addition was former Raiders tight end Darren Waller. I can't fault Schoen for using a third-round pick to acquire Waller, given his production over 2020 and 2021, but Waller turns 31 in September and has played more than 50% of the offensive snaps just 16 times over the past two seasons because of various injuries. New York isn't locked into Waller for long if it doesn't work out, but it has to treat him as more of a luxury than a true top option.

What went wrong: The organization appears to have bought into its own hype. An unexpected trip to the postseason and a road victory once they got there was a pleasant surprise for the Giants, who had been treating 2023 as a year to get their salary cap right and begin a rebuild. Their underlying performance wasn't quite as impressive; they were outscored on the season and finished 21st in DVOA. They went 8-4-1 in games decided by eight or fewer points and were lucky to draw an even worse playoff opponent in the Vikings, whose DVOA ranked them as the sixth-worst team in the league.

In response, the Giants appear to be running it back. They franchise-tagged Saquon Barkley and committed to Jones, signing the same player who wasn't worth a fifth-year option 12 months earlier to a four-year, $160 million deal with $81 million guaranteed over the first two seasons. They brought back Slayton and Shepard, who seemed to be on the way out, and while those weren't major deals, the move for Jones certainly was just that.

Jones ranked sixth in Total QBR last season, so I won't be arguing that he played poorly. In terms of Jones' development, though, coach Brian Daboll squeezed just about everything out of him. The 2019 first-rounder threw the shortest average pass of any quarterback (6.0 air yards per attempt), which helped drop his interception rate to an unsustainably-low mark of 1.1%. Jones was incredible as a scrambler, but his 708 rushing yards nearly doubled his career rushing total from Years 1 through 3. He averaged just 6.8 yards per attempt and still managed to take sacks on nearly 9% of his dropbacks. Plus, he attempted just 29.5 passes per game.

On a rookie deal, that sort of production is incredibly valuable. At $40 million per year, it wouldn't be a good use of resources. Jones has to improve as a passer to justify that sort of contract, and the steps he has to take as a downfield thrower and a post-snap processor likely open him up to the turnovers he avoided in 2022.

The cap space the Giants were supposed to be clearing last year went to Jones and Barkley, which limited what they could do to upgrade a defense that ranked 29th in DVOA last season. I liked the addition of A'Shawn Robinson to one of the league's worst rush defenses, but a four-year, $40 million deal for off-ball linebacker Bobby Okereke was too aggressive at a position where the majority of useful players settled for much smaller commitments. Schoen used the team's first-round pick on much-needed cornerback Deonte Banks, but this secondary is going to struggle against an NFC East full of imposing receivers.

What's left to do: Resolve the Barkley situation. The Giants haven't sounded close to a deal with their star back, who had his best season since 2018 while playing out his fifth-year option. It's reasonable to wonder whether committing a long-term deal to him would be a good idea given his injury history, but he helps the Giants overcome their lack of impactful playmakers at wide receiver. Barkley playing out the 2023 season on the tag feels like the most likely outcome.
Any Relation?
 
ESPN+ Bill Barnwell: Ranking best, worst 2023 NFL offseasons: Which teams improved?

29. New York Giants

What went right: The Giants brought in a variety of receivers for Daniel Jones, but I'm not sure they landed that No. 1 guy who might have been on general manager Joe Schoen's list. Still, after running out Isaiah Hodgins, Darius Slayton, Richie James and Daniel Bellinger as primary receivers in a playoff victory last season, Schoen has added a whole fleet of playmakers to the passing game this offseason.

Hodgins, Slayton and Bellinger return, but New York also brought back Sterling Shepard, who is recovering from a torn ACL. Parris Campbell, who finally stayed healthy with the Colts last season, was added in free agency. Schoen then used a third-round pick on speedster Jalin Hyatt, who was projected as a potential first-round pick by some and adds the sort of quickness that only Slayton really had on this roster previously. With gadget receiver Wan'Dale Robinson eventually returning from his own torn ACL, the Giants should be able to sort through this mix and find three starting wideouts as the season goes along.

The biggest addition was former Raiders tight end Darren Waller. I can't fault Schoen for using a third-round pick to acquire Waller, given his production over 2020 and 2021, but Waller turns 31 in September and has played more than 50% of the offensive snaps just 16 times over the past two seasons because of various injuries. New York isn't locked into Waller for long if it doesn't work out, but it has to treat him as more of a luxury than a true top option.

What went wrong: The organization appears to have bought into its own hype. An unexpected trip to the postseason and a road victory once they got there was a pleasant surprise for the Giants, who had been treating 2023 as a year to get their salary cap right and begin a rebuild. Their underlying performance wasn't quite as impressive; they were outscored on the season and finished 21st in DVOA. They went 8-4-1 in games decided by eight or fewer points and were lucky to draw an even worse playoff opponent in the Vikings, whose DVOA ranked them as the sixth-worst team in the league.

In response, the Giants appear to be running it back. They franchise-tagged Saquon Barkley and committed to Jones, signing the same player who wasn't worth a fifth-year option 12 months earlier to a four-year, $160 million deal with $81 million guaranteed over the first two seasons. They brought back Slayton and Shepard, who seemed to be on the way out, and while those weren't major deals, the move for Jones certainly was just that.

Jones ranked sixth in Total QBR last season, so I won't be arguing that he played poorly. In terms of Jones' development, though, coach Brian Daboll squeezed just about everything out of him. The 2019 first-rounder threw the shortest average pass of any quarterback (6.0 air yards per attempt), which helped drop his interception rate to an unsustainably-low mark of 1.1%. Jones was incredible as a scrambler, but his 708 rushing yards nearly doubled his career rushing total from Years 1 through 3. He averaged just 6.8 yards per attempt and still managed to take sacks on nearly 9% of his dropbacks. Plus, he attempted just 29.5 passes per game.

On a rookie deal, that sort of production is incredibly valuable. At $40 million per year, it wouldn't be a good use of resources. Jones has to improve as a passer to justify that sort of contract, and the steps he has to take as a downfield thrower and a post-snap processor likely open him up to the turnovers he avoided in 2022.

The cap space the Giants were supposed to be clearing last year went to Jones and Barkley, which limited what they could do to upgrade a defense that ranked 29th in DVOA last season. I liked the addition of A'Shawn Robinson to one of the league's worst rush defenses, but a four-year, $40 million deal for off-ball linebacker Bobby Okereke was too aggressive at a position where the majority of useful players settled for much smaller commitments. Schoen used the team's first-round pick on much-needed cornerback Deonte Banks, but this secondary is going to struggle against an NFC East full of imposing receivers.

What's left to do: Resolve the Barkley situation. The Giants haven't sounded close to a deal with their star back, who had his best season since 2018 while playing out his fifth-year option. It's reasonable to wonder whether committing a long-term deal to him would be a good idea given his injury history, but he helps the Giants overcome their lack of impactful playmakers at wide receiver. Barkley playing out the 2023 season on the tag feels like the most likely outcome.

Is Giants QB Daniel Jones better than Jets QB Aaron Rodgers?​

 
I felt like the Giants significantly over paid Okereke ... The only thing that I can think of is that he is a perfect fit for Winks system. I hope that is the case because there were 3 or 4 supposedly better LBs on the market that signed for a lot less.

I know these guys are smart but so are some of the other GMs and analysts.
GMs often outsmart themselves ... only time will tell
 
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Giants' Daniel Jones ranks highly in Chris Simms' top 40 QB countdown​

I hope Simms is right.
The Giants paid Jones like they expect him to improve to that level.
Jones cut down on the turnovers last year so that is a good sign, this year he will need to improve the passing yards and explosive plays.
While the passing offense was ranked slightly higher in 2022 (26th) than it was in 2021 (31st), they threw for more yards in 2021 (3196) than they did in 2022 (3157).
Second year in the system, along with some faster weapons and hopefully improved OL play will bear fruit for the passing offense.
 
I was a little disappointed to see that the Bills signed Leonard Floyd, I was holding out hope that the Giants would bring him in.
He signed for 1 year 9 million (I think 7 million base), which is more than the Giants have available at the moment.

They don't have much in the way of pass rushers behind KT and Azeez.
Haddy Ward, Tomon Fox, Oshane Ximines, and Elerson Smith are the backups, Ward is very good against the run but none of them are known for their pass rush.
There are a few vets available who might be able to be that situational 3rd pass rusher I think they need.
Yannick Ngakoue, Clowney, Melvin Ingram, Frank Clark and Justin Houston.
 
I was a little disappointed to see that the Bills signed Leonard Floyd, I was holding out hope that the Giants would bring him in.
He signed for 1 year 9 million (I think 7 million base), which is more than the Giants have available at the moment.

They don't have much in the way of pass rushers behind KT and Azeez.
Haddy Ward, Tomon Fox, Oshane Ximines, and Elerson Smith are the backups, Ward is very good against the run but none of them are known for their pass rush.
There are a few vets available who might be able to be that situational 3rd pass rusher I think they need.
Yannick Ngakoue, Clowney, Melvin Ingram, Frank Clark and Justin Houston.
Id like Clowney or Houston ... I think Clowney has always been way underrated because he doesnt get tons of sacks. He's like the Leonard Williams of Edge rushers lot's of pressures, great against the run, occasional big sack years

I'd pass on Ngakoue ... he's one dimensional
 
I was a little disappointed to see that the Bills signed Leonard Floyd, I was holding out hope that the Giants would bring him in.
He signed for 1 year 9 million (I think 7 million base), which is more than the Giants have available at the moment.

They don't have much in the way of pass rushers behind KT and Azeez.
Haddy Ward, Tomon Fox, Oshane Ximines, and Elerson Smith are the backups, Ward is very good against the run but none of them are known for their pass rush.
There are a few vets available who might be able to be that situational 3rd pass rusher I think they need.
Yannick Ngakoue, Clowney, Melvin Ingram, Frank Clark and Justin Houston.
Id like Clowney or Houston ... I think Clowney has always been way underrated because he doesnt get tons of sacks. He's like the Leonard Williams of Edge rushers lot's of pressures, great against the run, occasional big sack years

I'd pass on Ngakoue ... he's one dimensional
I heard an interview with Ngakoue a couple days ago, he is looking for a multi-year deal. So I doubt the Giants will even talk to him.
I think Houston played under Wink for a year so he knows the system
I agree with you on Clowney
 

....... “The great ones bust their *** to figure it out,” Anderson said. “For him, that stuff bothered him. It bothers him the way it bothered me [as a rookie], the way it bothered Andrew, because I know Andrew well too and I know what Andrew did to work himself back.

“That’s what Evan has a chance to be. You’ve got a chance to be [a] top duo. Two elite freaking tackles right there. He has the ability. Just give him time and patience to figure out that side of the ball.”
 

....... “The great ones bust their *** to figure it out,” Anderson said. “For him, that stuff bothered him. It bothers him the way it bothered me [as a rookie], the way it bothered Andrew, because I know Andrew well too and I know what Andrew did to work himself back.

“That’s what Evan has a chance to be. You’ve got a chance to be [a] top duo. Two elite freaking tackles right there. He has the ability. Just give him time and patience to figure out that side of the ball.”
I feel like Neal is the most important player on the offense this season. If his hard work and dedication payoff, the Giants should be in good shape to make a playoff run.
 
“That’s what Evan has a chance to be. You’ve got a chance to be [a] top duo. Two elite freaking tackles right there. He has the ability. Just give him time and patience to figure out that side of the ball.”
I feel like Neal is the most important player on the offense this season. If his hard work and dedication payoff, the Giants should be in good shape to make a playoff run.
Him and Schmitz. I long for the day when I can't say "I can do THAT! Pay me a million bucks a game!!!" Where THAT is defined as get totally smoked off the line and then get keistered on the way to giving up yet another sack on a critical down. It has happened entirely too often for the past 10? years. It wasn't Eli's fault. Or Jones' issue. Or any of the WR. None of them can stop it... until we get better Oline play. It's been entirely too long since the Giants can rely on anything resembling good OLine play. Until we get it, everything else is a tease.
 
Projected Giants offensive starters and their PFF preseason positional rankings

LT – Andrew Thomas - #4

LG – Ben Bredeson - NR

C – John Michael Schmitz - #30

RG – Mark Glowinski - #28

RT – Evan Neal - NR



QB – Daniel Jones - #17

RB – Saquon Barkley - #6

TE – Darren Waller - #11

WR – Isaiah Hodgins - NR

WR – Darius Slayton - NR

WR – Parris Campbell - NR
 
Imagine how much better off the Giants would be if they had won the Chase Young lottery instead of getting stuck with Thomas
 
Projected Giants offensive starters and their PFF preseason positional rankings

LT – Andrew Thomas - #4

LG – Ben Bredeson - NR

C – John Michael Schmitz - #30

RG – Mark Glowinski - #28

RT – Evan Neal - NR



QB – Daniel Jones - #17

RB – Saquon Barkley - #6

TE – Darren Waller - #11

WR – Isaiah Hodgins - NR

WR – Darius Slayton - NR

WR – Parris Campbell - NR
OMG ... Not good on paper !
 
I'm bored so here is the defense
Projected Giants defensive starters and their PFF preseason positional rankings
(Yes I know there are 12 guys listed)

DL – Leonard Williams - #12

DL – Dexter Lawrence - #3

DL – A’Shawn Robinson - NR

OLB – Azeez Ojulari - NR

OLB – Kayvon Thibodeaux - NR

ILB – Bobby Okereke - #23

ILB – Jarrad Davis - NR

SS – Xavier McKinney - #25

FS – Jason Pinnock - NR

CB – Adoree Jackson - NR

CB – Deonte Banks - NR

SCB – Darnay Holmes – NR
 
Just to throw fuel on the fire ... Who is money better spent ???
Saquan at $12-14 Million or Dalvin cook @ $6-8 Million??
 
Just to throw fuel on the fire ... Who is money better spent ???
Saquan at $12-14 Million or Dalvin cook @ $6-8 Million??
I’ll say Saquon.

The gap between the two players may not be huge talent wise however the Giants also need to be cognizant of the culture that they are trying to build.

Letting go of a team Capitan who is still highly productive and arguably your best offensive weapon, one of the hardest working players on the team (allegedly) and who has always seemed to carry himself and present himself in a positive manner off the field for what 4 million dollars, isn’t a good look……if you really care about the culture.
 
Just to throw fuel on the fire ... Who is money better spent ???
Saquan at $12-14 Million or Dalvin cook @ $6-8 Million??
I’ll say Saquon.

The gap between the two players may not be huge talent wise however the Giants also need to be cognizant of the culture that they are trying to build.

Letting go of a team Capitan who is still highly productive and arguably your best offensive weapon, one of the hardest working players on the team (allegedly) and who has always seemed to carry himself and present himself in a positive manner off the field for what 4 million dollars, isn’t a good look……if you really care about the culture.
I agree ... although it probably be more like $6M per year. I also think Barkley should be realistic condifering the RB Landscape. if they offer him 12m a year he should run not walk to sign. I personally wouldnt go higher than that.
 
I don't even think Giants need to give that many years, to be honest. 3 year/$43.5 million with $24 million guaranteed. WIth all the void years/"funny money" accounting in the NFL It's the amount of years that make a contract unpalatable, and the Giants can make the 3rd year a team option at $14.5 million.

Year 1: $15 million
Year 2: $14.5 million
Year 3: $14 million, Team option

He gets more AAV upfront with the value declining;
 

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