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2024 Philadelphia Eagles - LB situation hits a new low when one of them can't even outrun an internet entrepreneur. (1 Viewer)

Kelce is the first domino to fall. Forever an Eagle legend,

But, Cam Jurgens hasn’t shown enough to make anyone feel like C shouldn’t be a concern in 2024. And high-pick Steen, the presumed replacement at G if Jurgens slides to C, didn’t seem to develop into anything the team thought could help the OLine whenever injuries popped up. Not a good sign.
 
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My thoughts on Siranni: Having a bad stretch or getting into a rut isn't a reason to fire a coach with his previous success. Not having answers or any semblance of a plan to get the players and the coaches out of that rut, however, is a perfectly valid reason to fire a coach.

Watching the last two months of just doing the same things that previously failed but hoping everyone would just do those things "better" in order to turn things around would not give me any indication he has the ability to get a team out of this, or future, slides.

He, and his staff, basically took the Homer Simpson approach to leadership.
 
Step 1- Fire Everybody
Step 2- Hmmmmmm, maybe we better not fire everyone just yet

I'm not sure I have seen a collapse quite like the Eagles from 10-1
Was it a mirage thru 11 weeks, what was going well that produced those wins?
Miami played you all this season and they crumbled in the 2nd Half but I thought we were good enough to be on the field with you guys.

I would allow the HC a Year 3 since he did make the Super Bowl and had them 10-1 but I would revamp the assistants, pretty sure you all lost a couple and a slew of players last off season, maybe expectations were too high this year.

You all have one of the better GMs in the NFL, that's a huge advantage in figuring out the problems and addressing them.
 
Step 1- Fire Everybody
Step 2- Hmmmmmm, maybe we better not fire everyone just yet

I'm not sure I have seen a collapse quite like the Eagles from 10-1
Was it a mirage thru 11 weeks, what was going well that produced those wins?
Miami played you all this season and they crumbled in the 2nd Half but I thought we were good enough to be on the field with you guys.

I would allow the HC a Year 3 since he did make the Super Bowl and had them 10-1 but I would revamp the assistants, pretty sure you all lost a couple and a slew of players last off season, maybe expectations were too high this year.

You all have one of the better GMs in the NFL, that's a huge advantage in figuring out the problems and addressing them.
That's the baffling part. It wasn't a mirage. You don't accidentally beat Miami, Dallas, KC and Buffalo all in a row, 3 of them with comebacks. Yea they had flaws we all saw but fixable flaws. They showed incredible grit to keep fighting through all that though.

Then the niners game just took their mojo. They never got it back. They were a completely different team after that. Never seen it before. Similar thing happened to the Jags it looked like from afar. I don't know how you keep the coaches when it looked like they and the players all quit when they knew the super bowl dream was over.
 
Step 1- Fire Everybody
Step 2- Hmmmmmm, maybe we better not fire everyone just yet

I'm not sure I have seen a collapse quite like the Eagles from 10-1
Was it a mirage thru 11 weeks, what was going well that produced those wins?
Miami played you all this season and they crumbled in the 2nd Half but I thought we were good enough to be on the field with you guys.

I would allow the HC a Year 3 since he did make the Super Bowl and had them 10-1 but I would revamp the assistants, pretty sure you all lost a couple and a slew of players last off season, maybe expectations were too high this year.

You all have one of the better GMs in the NFL, that's a huge advantage in figuring out the problems and addressing them.
This was year 3, the decision is whether to keep him for year 4.

Howie and Lurie cut bait on Kelly and Doug when they determined those guys couldn’t fix the team’s issues, so I’ll trust whatever they decide.
 
My thoughts on Siranni: Having a bad stretch or getting into a rut isn't a reason to fire a coach with his previous success. Not having answers or any semblance of a plan to get the players and the coaches out of that rut, however, is a perfectly valid reason to fire a coach.

Watching the last two months of just doing the same things that previously failed but hoping everyone would just do those things "better" in order to turn things around would not give me any indication he has the ability to get a team out of this, or future, slides.

He, and his staff, basically took the Homer Simpson approach to leadership.

How would any great HC handle inept coordinators? Nearly every great HC that I can think of couldn’t overcome them. Why are we expecting Sirianni to do something they couldn’t do?

Howie and Lurie cut bait on Kelly and Doug when they determined those guys couldn’t fix the team’s issues, so I’ll trust whatever they decide.

And they waited until the wheels were clearly off. If he still has the locker room he has to stay. Just get actual coaches
 
Seeing Kelce cry like that last night and than retire stings man.

Kelce has had a great career but the time has come as he seems ready to move on, body is broken down.

When the "tush-push" failed I knew the Eagles were doomed.

A little concerned about Hurts, with any type of leg issues he goes from a top tier QB to a lower tier QB fast.

Siranni looks like a front runner type of HC, when things are rolling he is all jacked up, when things are not looking good his body language is terrible.
 
I would allow the HC a Year 3 since he did make the Super Bowl and had them 10-1 but I would revamp the assistants, pretty sure you all lost a couple and a slew of players last off season, maybe expectations were too high this year.

You all have one of the better GMs in the NFL, that's a huge advantage in figuring out the problems and addressing them.
Maybe I'm just not able to think of one, but I don't think the "Give the coach one more year to try to turn things around" after a disastrous season has ever seen that coach turn things around enough to win (or make a serious run at) a SB. It usually goes one of two ways: they improve some things and achieve mediocrity until they are fired, or they flail around even worse trying to save their skin and don't make it through that next season.
 
Regarding Siriani, I never would have expected or thought he'd get fired after the start to the season. But, this collapse that the Eagles had is historically bad. Super Bowl, regular season record... ok, sure. And I know you can't make rash decisions based on emotion.

BUT, his Coordinators were awful. Not just awful, but absolute bottom of the barrel, unforgivably awful. And we saw the same issues trotted out for the past 7 weeks, with ZERO adjustments made. And the team play reflected that. All of the Coordinators and position coaches need to go- every single player on the team regressed this year. That was his staff, and if Nick's an Offensive mind, and BJ has been in his system for 3 years, a huge part of the blame falls on him. Whoever was responsible for the craptastic playcalling.

I'm not saying that I feel like Nick needs to be fired, but at this point, I trust Lurie and Howie to make the right decisions. I won't be outraged if they do clean house entirely. They have to get all new Coordinators, anyway, so if Nick's not calling plays- why keep him, if there's any chance he has lost the locker room?
 
How would any great HC handle inept coordinators? Nearly every great HC that I can think of couldn’t overcome them. Why are we expecting Sirianni to do something they couldn’t do?

On offense, Brian Johnson isn't left to his own devices. It's been made clear that, a former OC, Sirianni has a heavy influence on setting the gameplan on offense, the approach they take to running what is "his" offense, and that he has final say on what goes on the play sheet. If Johnson and the offensive staff bring him crappy plays or gameplans, that is exactly what a good (offensive) HC would shut down, tweak, or improve. So he's either on board with the bad stuff they are trying, or not willing to challenge it.

On gameday, Brian Johnson definitely was not good at deploying the plays at the right time or right situation, but Sirianni gave up doing that because he admitted he wasn't good at it, either. And the OC is limited to what they installed that week for that game, which Sirianni approved. If there's amazing plays wasting away on the play sheet that the OC isn't going to, again, that's on the head coach that approves the game plan to get bad plays out so they aren't even an option.

If I'm a former chef and now run a restaurant, hire a head chef, and stock his kitchen with weak or bad recipes (either on my own or by approving the bad orders the chef places) and no one wants to eat the resulting menu of dishes, isn't the person running the restaurant the most responsible if it goes out of business?

On defense, which isn't his forte, there can be more slack given but if you think about the problems the D was experiencing and how the HC chose to handle, his decision objectively made things worse. If Desai was truly inept, it's Sirianni that brought him in. If he wasn't and it was a panic move to replace him mid-season with another inept coordinator, that also reflects badly on him.

He didn't inherit 2 (3?) inept coordinators. He brought all of them in. That he couldn't overcome them being inept shouldn't be an indictment on them.
 
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huge part of the blame falls on him. Whoever was responsible for the craptastic playcalling.
If the coordinators have such free reign to be awful for 7 weeks with no adjustments, isn't that enough of a reason to think he isn't the right coach going forward? He's either asleep at the wheel or obliviously driving the bus, as the bus goes off the cliff. Neither is a good look.

Take WR screens as an example. He's got every power available as an offensive head coach to recognize how unsuccessful they are at running them. Whether it's talent, skills, coaching, situations, whatever, they just aren't able to generative positive plays with them. Yet, they were still on the call sheet for Brian Johnson to continue calling. They were still trying to run them in practice and think they were getting better at them. To keep that as a staple to "his" offense is either malpractice or stupidity. Again, neither is a good look.
 
I'm torn tbh.
Seems wild to not give a coach that has made the playoffs every year a chance to fix it when the team fell apart.. But - this was bad, like - they did not look like a playoff team the second half of the season. They looked on par with the bottom tier teams in the NFL. Hell, bottom tier teams beat them. Playoff teams made them look like they weren't even in the same league.

Did all the older players just fall off a cliff? Bradberry did for sure, but the offense was just as bad at the end.
Is the scheme as bad as everyone says? If so - who is ultimately at fault?
Is Hurt's regression fixable?
Howie, while a good gm - seems to have made the exact same mistakes from the 207 Super Bowl. We paid the QB with only one good year, we kept around older players that were past their prime.
 
I really liked Hurts coming into this season but something seems wrong with him. Even before he was hurt he looked a step slower than previous years, but he also looked more bulked up. There was no doubt something is wrong with his knee, at times when he ran it looked like he was favoring the bad knee , and limping when he got up. Also made some bad throws in a clean pocket.

Kelce probably played a year too long but why not take another payday. They will miss him.
 
How would any great HC handle inept coordinators? Nearly every great HC that I can think of couldn’t overcome them. Why are we expecting Sirianni to do something they couldn’t do?

On offense, Brian Johnson isn't left to his own devices. It's been made clear that, a former OC, Sirianni has a heavy influence on setting the gameplan on offense, the approach they take to running what is "his" offense, and that he has final say on what goes on the play sheet. If Johnson and the offensive staff bring him crappy plays or gameplans, that is exactly what a good (offensive) HC would shut down, tweak, or improve. So he's either on board with the bad stuff they are trying, or not willing to challenge it.

On gameday, Brian Johnson definitely was not good at deploying the plays at the right time or right situation, but Sirianni gave up doing that because he admitted he wasn't good at it, either. And the OC is limited to what they installed that week for that game, which Sirianni approved. If there's amazing plays wasting away on the play sheet that the OC isn't going to, again, that's on the head coach that approves the game plan to get bad plays out so they aren't even an option.

If I'm a former chef and now run a restaurant, hire a head chef, and stock his kitchen with weak or bad recipes (either on my own or by approving the bad orders the chef places) and no one wants to eat the resulting menu of dishes, isn't the person running the restaurant the most responsible if it goes out of business?

On defense, which isn't his forte, there can be more slack given but if you think about the problems the D was experiencing and how the HC chose to handle, his decision objectively made things worse. If Desai was truly inept, it's Sirianni that brought him in. If he wasn't and it was a panic move to replace him mid-season with another inept coordinator, that also reflects badly on him.

He didn't inherit 2 (3?) inept coordinators. He brought all of them in. That he couldn't overcome them being inept shouldn't be an indictment on them.

It sure seems and sounds like they don't have a decent OC in the building. Get rid of these clowns and go get one.
 
I really liked Hurts coming into this season but something seems wrong with him. Even before he was hurt he looked a step slower than previous years, but he also looked more bulked up. There was no doubt something is wrong with his knee, at times when he ran it looked like he was favoring the bad knee , and limping when he got up. Also made some bad throws in a clean pocket.

Kelce probably played a year too long but why not take another payday. They will miss him.

I think he was playing hurt. The playcalling didn't do him any favors but he totally looked slower and didn't want to run at all.
 
I'm torn tbh.
Seems wild to not give a coach that has made the playoffs every year a chance to fix it when the team fell apart.. But - this was bad, like - they did not look like a playoff team the second half of the season. They looked on par with the bottom tier teams in the NFL. Hell, bottom tier teams beat them. Playoff teams made them look like they weren't even in the same league.

Did all the older players just fall off a cliff? Bradberry did for sure, but the offense was just as bad at the end.
Is the scheme as bad as everyone says? If so - who is ultimately at fault?
Is Hurt's regression fixable?
Howie, while a good gm - seems to have made the exact same mistakes from the 207 Super Bowl. We paid the QB with only one good year, we kept around older players that were past their prime.
Bradberry and Slay both fell off. Bradberry swan-dived off an Acapulco cliff and Homer Simson'ed off the cliff face the whole way down. Slay just got older.

Blankenship isn't good enough to be the standout Safety. I like him, he makes good plays. But he needs to be paired with somebody stronger. Losing CJGJ cost us- not that we should've paid what he wanted, but Edmonds and the re-treads we were throwing back there wasn't the answer. Byard disappointed, and he seemed to be pretty vocal about how the scheme was letting them down.

Eventually, LB HAS to be addressed. Losing TJ Edwards and White, and counting on Dean to fill in was just a bad personnel decision, in hindsight. Cunningham actually played better than expected, but still wasn't at the level we needed. Morrow and Shaq are JAGs

Dline regressed a ton. All the rumors of Davis getting fined for being overweight- he regressed terribly. Fletch is old and played waaaay too many snaps. He was our best Dlineman all year. Jalen Carter started off gangbusters, then disappeared. Williams is a good rotational player. BG played about as well as could be expected. Reddick was horribly misused, especially late in the season. Losing Hargrave hurt more than I thought it would. Not having a heavy rotation with Suh and Joseph hurt the run game. Nolan Smith was barely used, at all.

All of the Defensive woes seemed more like coaching and scheme issues than just personnel issues, though. Even early in the season, when the D didn't look like COMPLETE garbage, there were tons of communication breakdowns: failures in coverage, passing guys off, blown assignments. They need to get younger and faster and get a coach in here with a good scheme. And hire assistants and position coaches that hold the young guys accountable and coach them up.

I honestly think we are due for a really down year, like 6-8 wins, next year as it's gonna take a full reset before we contend again.
 
Coordinators must go. Nick didn't hire the coordinators but surely didn't get the most out of them either. Whatever Jeff and Howie decide to do, I'm ok with.

With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.

I expect a big FA/trade season from him.
 
I don't know anyone on this specific team, but from my professional perspective it was stunning to watch. Can't think of a similar collapse from 10-1 to defeated and spiritless.

The body language last night was interesting. There were a few players who were clearly giving their entire being to win. There was a moment when they sacked Baker, right before the safety, where you could see those players on the bench, and that was it - they were close to exhaustion, they had risen to the moment, but - they didn't look confident.

And then they planned to the offense. And they were arguing. They looked blank. They had that deer in the headlights look.

From my perspective, there were some major leadership issues on the team.
 
Coordinators must go. Nick didn't hire the coordinators but surely didn't get the most out of them either. Whatever Jeff and Howie decide to do, I'm ok with.

With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.

I expect a big FA/trade season from him.

I get the coordinators were bad, but just asking a logistics question. What kind of coordinators is Nick attracting 4 years (next year) into a 5 year deal after his team went off a cliff like an 18 wheeler.

Seems like an odd way to do business. If he stays, he should be extended. To allow the most leverage in finding co-ordinations in line with Nick’s wants or a new regime.
 
I know on the "keep him" side, a lot of the reasoning starts with him making the playoffs 3 straight seasons as to why you can't bail on him. But I find it interesting that most assume DAL is going to dump McCarthy, who has also just had 3 straight playoff appearances, won 12 games in each season (2 more than Sirianni), and just won the division.

If I had to put a number on it, I think it's 55% chance Lurie keeps him, 45% Lurie fires him.

If I were Lurie, I would move on. The downside of going one more year and letting him hire 2 more coordinators after whiffing on 3.5 of the 5 previous ones he brought in outweighs the possibility of him getting the team back to 2022 heights.
 
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Coordinators must go. Nick didn't hire the coordinators but surely didn't get the most out of them either. Whatever Jeff and Howie decide to do, I'm ok with.

With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.

I expect a big FA/trade season from him.

I get the coordinators were bad, but just asking a logistics question. What kind of coordinators is Nick attracting 4 years (next year) into a 5 year deal after his team went off a cliff like an 18 wheeler.

Seems like an odd way to do business. If he stays, he should be extended. To allow the most leverage in funding co-ordinations in line with Nick’s wants or a new regime.
I agree with what the premise of your question is basically asking "Why would anyone"

Philly has a weird system where we don't let the HC hire the coordinators, where he kinda tells us what he wants to run and THEN we go find guys to fit that system or whatever.

I admit it sure as hell does not seem optimum, but it is what it is.

And if he is not extended any potential coordinator hired could be viewed as a potential HC replacement I guess.

I'm at the point where honestly I think a fresh reboot is required. Find a guy who LOVES Hurts and what he can bring. An offensive guru of sorts. There are guys out there.
 
Coordinators must go. Nick didn't hire the coordinators but surely didn't get the most out of them either. Whatever Jeff and Howie decide to do, I'm ok with.

With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.

I expect a big FA/trade season from him.

I get the coordinators were bad, but just asking a logistics question. What kind of coordinators is Nick attracting 4 years (next year) into a 5 year deal after his team went off a cliff like an 18 wheeler.

Seems like an odd way to do business. If he stays, he should be extended. To allow the most leverage in funding co-ordinations in line with Nick’s wants or a new regime.
I agree with what the premise of your question is basically asking "Why would anyone"

Philly has a weird system where we don't let the HC hire the coordinators, where he kinda tells us what he wants to run and THEN we go find guys to fit that system or whatever.

I admit it sure as hell does not seem optimum, but it is what it is.

And if he is not extended any potential coordinator hired could be viewed as a potential HC replacement I guess.

I'm at the point where honestly I think a fresh reboot is required. Find a guy who LOVES Hurts and what he can bring. An offensive guru of sorts. There are guys out there.

Let me change my inquiry slightly - what is it that Eagles fans like and admire about Nick’s coaching?
 
How would any great HC handle inept coordinators? Nearly every great HC that I can think of couldn’t overcome them. Why are we expecting Sirianni to do something they couldn’t do?

On offense, Brian Johnson isn't left to his own devices. It's been made clear that, a former OC, Sirianni has a heavy influence on setting the gameplan on offense, the approach they take to running what is "his" offense, and that he has final say on what goes on the play sheet. If Johnson and the offensive staff bring him crappy plays or gameplans, that is exactly what a good (offensive) HC would shut down, tweak, or improve. So he's either on board with the bad stuff they are trying, or not willing to challenge it.

On gameday, Brian Johnson definitely was not good at deploying the plays at the right time or right situation, but Sirianni gave up doing that because he admitted he wasn't good at it, either. And the OC is limited to what they installed that week for that game, which Sirianni approved. If there's amazing plays wasting away on the play sheet that the OC isn't going to, again, that's on the head coach that approves the game plan to get bad plays out so they aren't even an option.

If I'm a former chef and now run a restaurant, hire a head chef, and stock his kitchen with weak or bad recipes (either on my own or by approving the bad orders the chef places) and no one wants to eat the resulting menu of dishes, isn't the person running the restaurant the most responsible if it goes out of business?

On defense, which isn't his forte, there can be more slack given but if you think about the problems the D was experiencing and how the HC chose to handle, his decision objectively made things worse. If Desai was truly inept, it's Sirianni that brought him in. If he wasn't and it was a panic move to replace him mid-season with another inept coordinator, that also reflects badly on him.

He didn't inherit 2 (3?) inept coordinators. He brought all of them in. That he couldn't overcome them being inept shouldn't be an indictment on them.

huge part of the blame falls on him. Whoever was responsible for the craptastic playcalling.
If the coordinators have such free reign to be awful for 7 weeks with no adjustments, isn't that enough of a reason to think he isn't the right coach going forward? He's either asleep at the wheel or obliviously driving the bus, as the bus goes off the cliff. Neither is a good look.

Take WR screens as an example. He's got every power available as an offensive head coach to recognize how unsuccessful they are at running them. Whether it's talent, skills, coaching, situations, whatever, they just aren't able to generative positive plays with them. Yet, they were still on the call sheet for Brian Johnson to continue calling. They were still trying to run them in practice and think they were getting better at them. To keep that as a staple to "his" offense is either malpractice or stupidity. Again, neither is a good look.

These are valid concerns and questions but I think some additional understanding is needed.

First, it's the HC's responsibility to know ALL apsects of the team and be able to assist in all 3 phases of the game. Any good/great HC should know enough to help. Help.

Secondly, when a HC like Nick has "his offense" it's not as detailed as your taking it. Guys like Nick, Vrabel, Belichik etc have a vision for their offense, what they want it to look like. NIck is NOT a play caller and while he can provide feedback, at the end of the day Johnson is scheming and calling the plays. With that said, your chef analogy will look more like you own a restaurant and you want it to be Italian. You hire what you think is a great chef and supporting cast and you let them cook. You are not asking for each individual recipe and removing ingredients. The chef and you will discuss the menu (play sheet/plan) and if it looks OK you'll move on. If the food sucks, ultimately it's your responsibility because you hired the bad chef but did you even cook anything?

Thirdly, we have data to compare this to right? We can simply look at last year and compare the calls and how things looked with a different set of coaches. In your opinion, if Nick has such a hand in the offense did he forget all the RPO's? Did he lose his feel for when to call certain plays? Or is it as simple as a change in the chef/playcaller? Aikman hit the nail on the head at the end of the game last night. "You have to have a feel for calling plays and the Eagles are missing Steichan a lot". If nothing else, just look at how well Steichan did in Indy with what he had there compared to how our offense looks. This is a layup. Johnson has no feel. Look at the designs of the plays that were highlighted last night by the broadcast team. I have the luxury of watching games through All-22 in real time and I can't put into words just how bad they are. It's not an exaggeration to say some HS offenses have a better scheme and play design. I can't expect ANY HC to have to look over every ingredient for every meal every week. You HAVE to rely on people to do their jobs at a high level. You also never answered my question above. How come the greatest coaches ever can't overcome a horrible coordinator? I feel like if you did nothing but look at the examples here that it's clear. We have a great year and the team looks awesome in certain areas. We lose a ton of coaches and it looks bad the following year with roughly the same rosters.

Lastly, our dynamic here is different. Is Nick the one hiring ANY of his coaches? We simply don't know this and it's a decent piece of the puzzle. As more time and coaches pass this looks more and more like it's Howie and maybe Jeff picking the coaches for their HC. Towards the end with Andy they picked his coaches, power struggle with Chip over who knows what, they want Doug getting rid of coaches and now here we are. What do all signs point toward? Now IF Nick is the one hiring and promoting everyone than he deserves blame for sure but it doest read like he has a say to me.

Sorry for the long reply but I think the additional detail was needed.
 
Coordinators must go. Nick didn't hire the coordinators but surely didn't get the most out of them either. Whatever Jeff and Howie decide to do, I'm ok with.

With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.

I expect a big FA/trade season from him.

I get the coordinators were bad, but just asking a logistics question. What kind of coordinators is Nick attracting 4 years (next year) into a 5 year deal after his team went off a cliff like an 18 wheeler.

Seems like an odd way to do business. If he stays, he should be extended. To allow the most leverage in funding co-ordinations in line with Nick’s wants or a new regime.
I agree with what the premise of your question is basically asking "Why would anyone"

Philly has a weird system where we don't let the HC hire the coordinators, where he kinda tells us what he wants to run and THEN we go find guys to fit that system or whatever.

I admit it sure as hell does not seem optimum, but it is what it is.

And if he is not extended any potential coordinator hired could be viewed as a potential HC replacement I guess.

I'm at the point where honestly I think a fresh reboot is required. Find a guy who LOVES Hurts and what he can bring. An offensive guru of sorts. There are guys out there.

Let me change my inquiry slightly - what is it that Eagles fans like and admire about Nick’s coaching?
He seemed to be a players coach that the players liked and played hard for. Until the SF game, he got them to buy in for 2.5 years. Then it just stopped.
 
With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.
And we have to be real here. His warts are showing and he's reading like a guy who does well when his seat gets warm before going right back to what got him there shortly thereafter. MAYBE it's the owner but right now Howie reads like a GM who's great at building for a year and horrible at retaining.
 
In your opinion, if Nick has such a hand in the offense did he forget all the RPO's?
I think it's as simple as: personnel changes, the skills of the personnel change (forward or backward), and the league/teams adjust and evolve. If you're not flipping the right switches to react to all of that, you're not going to succeed.
 
And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
 
In your opinion, if Nick has such a hand in the offense did he forget all the RPO's?
I think it's as simple as: personnel changes, the skills of the personnel change (forward or backward), and the league/teams adjust and evolve. If you're not flipping the right switches to react to all of that, you're not going to succeed.

But the guy who called them last year is calling them this year in Indy. Do they have better personnel? Wouldn't the league adjust to him in Indy?

His replacement isn't calling them here with better talent and knowing it worked a year ago.
 
With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.
And we have to be real here. His warts are showing and he's reading like a guy who does well when his seat gets warm before going right back to what got him there shortly thereafter. MAYBE it's the owner but right now Howie reads like a GM who's great at building for a year and horrible at retaining.
Howie is way down on the list for me. Yes the LB and safety were issues but it wasn't like he didn't address them. Other teams have inferior talent at positions too but they don't look like they're running a backyard scheme.
 
And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
But they competed and grinded out wins despite those deficiencies. After SF, they didn't care it seemed.
 
With that said, Howie needs to take a look in the mirror. Signing old guys (again) to extensions didn't help out or work. Ignoring the S and LB positions again, did not work. These need to remedied immediately.
And we have to be real here. His warts are showing and he's reading like a guy who does well when his seat gets warm before going right back to what got him there shortly thereafter. MAYBE it's the owner but right now Howie reads like a GM who's great at building for a year and horrible at retaining.
Howie is way down on the list for me. Yes the LB and safety were issues but it wasn't like he didn't address them. Other teams have inferior talent at positions too but they don't look like they're running a backyard scheme.
I agree. Just highlighting what Ive noticed from him the past few coaches
 
And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
But they competed and grinded out wins despite those deficiencies. After SF, they didn't care it seemed.
The book was out at that point for both sides of the ball. Every single team attacked the same way after that game.
 
I think the notion that Sirianni didn't pick his coordinators is both revisionist history (he built the original staff, with deep/existing connections to them, and came to the interview with his choices in mind, as any HC candidate should) and conjecture when it comes to BJ, Desai, and Patricia. There wasn't anything I recall at the time of Desai being hired (or Patricia being brought into the building) that they were being thrust upon Sirianni by the GM and/or owner. All the recent discourse here about unnamed sources being a joke but it's being accepted the front office pulls the coordinator strings without any on-the-record proof?

For BJ, after the successful development of Hurts and the previous OC history in college, he was a pretty natural hire from within that we all thought would minimize disruption. It probably would have been more controversial if Sirianni WASN'T on board with it.

If his arm is being twisted to hire people he doesn't want, he's setting himself up as a fall guy and might be better off moving on by his own decision or do what Doug did and say "I want to do X, or we can part ways." The Press Taylor experience was certainly the FO saying a change is needed (and it was), which is their right/job and exactly what we all agree they should be doing right now, but that's different than saying Taylor has to go and you have to hire who we force you to hire. It wasn't about who would be brought in; Doug just didn't agree a change was needed.
 
And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
I'm not sure making the case the team stunk the entire year, not just the last two months, is really a point in Sirianni's favor.
 
And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
But they competed and grinded out wins despite those deficiencies. After SF, they didn't care it seemed.
Yeah something happened at some point. It just looks like the players stopped caring and the play callers also stopped caring. It was just that comedy of calling the same 10 plays in the same sequence on offense every single time. And the defense, which I believe was like #1 against the run the first 7-9 weeks of the season, just stopped doing that. There were injuries, but nothing to the defensive line. It just seems, as simple as it is to say, we just had 2 really bad coordinators, 3 if you count Patricia. Brian Johnson was by far the worst of them. It was like he realized "Yeah we can just throw it to AJ, he will do it all the time" and over time the league just said, OK NO we aren't going to let you do that easy go ball stuff every play.

So today, this week, my feeling is we just move on completely from the disaster, bring in a new/up and coming OC young guy to be OC, get the systems in place and start over.
 
If the thinking is that Sirianni was handcuffed by bad coordinators that the front office picked, wouldn't that mean keeping Sirianni is the FO admitting they were to blame? If that's the case, then the FO would fire him to save face and have him take the blame, as any nefarious puppet-master would.

If he did hire them and it wasted a season and regressed the development of the franchise QB and maybe high draft picks on Defense, that would warrant him being fired rather than risking him making the same mistakes with new hires.

What we're really debating/speculating is whether or not Sirianni gets fired, and both of the above end with him gone.
 
I can't remember such a complete and utter collapse by a team. By the end of the season, there were probably only a very small handful of teams I actually thought they could/should beat.
I held out hope they could win against TB, they were probably the best matchup. Deep down though, I thought Tampa would do whatever they wanted on offense. My only hope was that the offense could win a shoot out.
My fear is that the nfl finally figured Hurts out. The RPO worked last year, but now there is film out there and defenses know how to stop it.
My fear is that, except for Jalen Carter, the defensive line just isn't that good. They hit the wall in November and never recovered. Jordan Davis seems lazy and unmotivated.
My fear is that the offensive line is going to fall apart with Kelce gone. Dude was the glue that held them together.
My fear is that Siranni just caught lightning in a bottle last year and just isn't a great coach. His in game adjustments are nonexistent.
 
If this team suffered from normal "Next Season Super Bowl loss" Blues and limped into the playoffs; I'd be fine with running Sirianni back. As it stands though, this was a historic collapse; maybe never seen before; across all facets of this team. They had a couple of opportunities after the SF/DAL roadblock to right the ship against mid teams. They didn't...and looke atrocious doing so. That's on Sirianni. I get that injuries happen (they happened to Buffalo and they won their last 7 games), drops happen (they happened to KC and they found another way to win and might have rightened their ship), cordinators sucking happens (Buf and PIt seemed to figure this out midseason and righted their ships). Either SF just mollywhopped PHI so bad they lost all interest in playing the game, Big Dom on the sidelines was such a good luck charm that when they lost them they were rudderless or once faced with adversity the culture wasn't great. I think its the third....and I lay that on Sirianni.
 
I think the notion that Sirianni didn't pick his coordinators is both revisionist history (he built the original staff, with deep/existing connections to them, and came to the interview with his choices in mind, as any HC candidate should) and conjecture when it comes to BJ, Desai, and Patricia. There wasn't anything I recall at the time of Desai being hired (or Patricia being brought into the building) that they were being thrust upon Sirianni by the GM and/or owner. All the recent discourse here about unnamed sources being a joke but it's being accepted the front office pulls the coordinator strings without any on-the-record proof?

For BJ, after the successful development of Hurts and the previous OC history in college, he was a pretty natural hire from within that we all thought would minimize disruption. It probably would have been more controversial if Sirianni WASN'T on board with it.

If his arm is being twisted to hire people he doesn't want, he's setting himself up as a fall guy and might be better off moving on by his own decision or do what Doug did and say "I want to do X, or we can part ways." The Press Taylor experience was certainly the FO saying a change is needed (and it was), which is their right/job and exactly what we all agree they should be doing right now, but that's different than saying Taylor has to go and you have to hire who we force you to hire. It wasn't about who would be brought in; Doug just didn't agree a change was needed.

It's not revisionist history when it follows the same history as the previous 3 HC's. Initial staff, sure but after that they ALL read the same. I agree that Johnson seemed like he should have been elevated but I didn't interview him. How do I know what he knew or didn't? Based on what I'm seeing this season he HAD to show his lack of knowledge early on.

The Desai dynamic is different as well. I believe Gannon lead us on and jumping ship at the end screwed us over. We had to reach for Desai and knew it, hence the Patricia signing as well. That looks clear to me.


And this "Epic collapse" narrative is getting old and fast. Me and a few others highlighted how fortunate this team was early on. This team NEVER passed the eye test beginning in week 1! Week after week we were all "waiting for it to click" and it never did. I expect the inflated view of what they were from people who don't watch them. If you watched every game you knew they werent as good as national people made them out to be or what their record said.
I'm not sure making the case the team stunk the entire year, not just the last two months, is really a point in Sirianni's favor.

You're missing the point. When you hear that a team loses both coordinators and it hasn't happened in 30 years, how do you process that info? Because it's reads like you think the transition should be smooth because one guy should be able to overcome the jobs of 8-10 coaches.

At this stage I don't believe you think that any HC is good or great. The all need talent and good coaches and when they're deficient in one it shows. From Bill Walsh to Andy Reid to Belichik etc etc. There's just too many examples of it. Andy Reid goes to KC, gets a stable and experienced staff and talent and shockingly he's back to being good again!
 
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If the thinking is that Sirianni was handcuffed by bad coordinators that the front office picked, wouldn't that mean keeping Sirianni is the FO admitting they were to blame? If that's the case, then the FO would fire him to save face and have him take the blame, as any nefarious puppet-master would.

If he did hire them and it wasted a season and regressed the development of the franchise QB and maybe high draft picks on Defense, that would warrant him being fired rather than risking him making the same mistakes with new hires.

What we're really debating/speculating is whether or not Sirianni gets fired, and both of the above end with him gone.

If we are doing a clean sweep of coordinators than you can 100% make the case that Nick goes with them.

With that said, are we able to get a Johnson, Vrabel, Belichik, Harbaugh? Or are we back to the no-name HC?
 

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