Problem with this is I don't see Vrabel getting a job this cycle.
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*** 2024 Pittsburgh Steelers: 10-3 going into cross-state battle of PA (6 Viewers)
- Thread starter Godsbrother
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3C's
Footballguy
Titans were 2nd in total yards and 4th in points in his final year as OC. Yes, I would take that.
Problem with following Vrabel is it seems he's the odd man out (along with BB) as of now.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
They sure were...and got rolled in the Wild Card round when they scored a whopping 13 points vs. the Ravens. Sounds familiar, doesn't it?
A better argument would have been looking at their performance in his first year in the playoffs, but even then they couldn't keep up with the Chiefs. And that's my main point about Smith's offense. It's "fine" with the proper personnel....but it can't consistently keep up with truly elite QBs when it's "win or go home."
Anyway, this is all hyperbole until they interview/don't interview him so I'll shut up about it. Smith's offense is certainly "better" than what they have, but his offense isn't what they need. Not if the goal is winning championships in the current NFL/AFC. IMO, of course.
3C's
Footballguy
A team with Tannehill at QB is supposed to keep up with elite QBs? Not going to happen no matter who the OC is.
Also: https://twitter.com/TomPelissero/status/1751678680957378705
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
"A team that scores is a team that scores", isnt it?
But to answer your question: not when its predicated on running the ball 600 times, no. Kinda was my point. Its old-school thinking i'd prefer they got away from. Tomlin clearly disagrees with me.
Leeroy Jenkins
Footballguy
Well, they interviewed him today. Pray Munchak is a package deal with him ….
Godsbrother
Footballguy
Didn’t really want a Chiefs / 49ers super ball it glad the Ravens didn’t make it
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Same, as I sorta dislike the Niners. I DETEST Baltimore though, and sort of like the Chiefs, so Im 1000% for KC rolling them.
Det/KC would have been a fun game to watch.
steelers1080
Footballguy
If you can't figure out how to use Kyle Pitts, Drake London, and Bijan Robinson, you're not a good offensive coach. I think the chance they hire him is ~65%, but I'd rather not.
I'm still hoping for Brian Griese and they're just waiting until after yesterday's NFC Championship.
I'm still hoping for Brian Griese and they're just waiting until after yesterday's NFC Championship.
3C's
Footballguy
How much of that is Smith and how much is Ragone (the OC)? Ragone was going to be gone, and the scapegoat, if Smith had been retained.
I'll take the over on that 65%.
steelers1080
Footballguy
Smith called all the plays, not sure how much that was really Ragone's offense.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
Smith is bad to be honest. The skilled players Atlanta had went to waste, and he completely missed on assessing Ridder. His offensive concepts were fruitless and he had no idea how to adjust.
I'll leave this snippet from one of many articles describing his ineptness,
I'll leave this snippet from one of many articles describing his ineptness,
JohnnyU
Footballguy
Now look at him. Do you think he is reflecting on his mistakes, or nothing has changed?
I'll save my impassioned defense of Arthur for if the Steelers hire him but I think the notion he wasted the 3 skill position players he drafted high is overdone and lacks nuance. He's not fantasy friendly that's for sure but that's another subject IMO.
I think he's outstanding at designing a running game and his two seasons as Tannehill's OC were easily the two best seasons of his career.
I do think he needs to check his ego but being fired has a way of doing that work for you. I think he'd be a great hire and if he was able to coerce Munchak away from being an advisor for the Rams and come with him it starts to become grand slam kind of hire stuff.
I think he's outstanding at designing a running game and his two seasons as Tannehill's OC were easily the two best seasons of his career.
I do think he needs to check his ego but being fired has a way of doing that work for you. I think he'd be a great hire and if he was able to coerce Munchak away from being an advisor for the Rams and come with him it starts to become grand slam kind of hire stuff.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
He fits into what Tomlin envisions with his prehistoric offensive ideas, so it would be no surprise to see him hired. I don't doubt he knows the run game, but this guy had a stacked offense with King and AJ and still had no ideas what to do when teams shut down Henry in the playoffs.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
One could also argue that being in line to be a billionaire the moment your dad keels over has a way of making it so you don't really care about being fired, so if you have an ego you get to keep it (AND your weird perv 'stache) with little fear of any "checking."
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
I'd also really like Ryan Tannehill to stay far, far away from this team (although...now that I think of it...Mrs. Tannehill's welcome to swing by if she'd like to. As long as she leaves the AR-15 at home, I guess <tips hat>).
I'd also be worried that Artie getting hired increases the chances of them bringing Tanny in to be some kind of "mentor" (with the real intent of making him the starter at the earliest convenience) exponentially. Do. Not. Want.
I'd also be worried that Artie getting hired increases the chances of them bringing Tanny in to be some kind of "mentor" (with the real intent of making him the starter at the earliest convenience) exponentially. Do. Not. Want.
3C's
Footballguy
No idea why one would think Smith being hired means Tannehill comes with him. The only way that happens is if they release Mitch, can't resign Mason, and don't have a better option at backup QB in free agency. Vrabel is not coming with Smith, Munchak is not coming with Smith, Tannehill is not coming with Smith.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
I basically just wanted to make the AR-15 joke, but its almost a stone cold lock Mitch is cut, and Rudolph's a FA in a few weeks. I think it is incredibly presumptous that most everyone seems ready to just pencil in Rudolph as A) returning, and B) their eventual starter. Neither of those things are a guarantee though.
If Smith were hired, Tanny knows his offense and the Steelers might need a couple QBs. It may only be a .05% chance, but its not a fully retarded notion to think Smith might advocate for the guy.
It's the offseason (for Pittsburgh). Im speculating because I can, and being negative about Smith and Tannehill because it's fun.
(Also, seems the only place Munchak is going is back to Tenn by the sound of it.)
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3C's
Footballguy
If I was Mason I wouldn't come back unless there were no other/better offers or unless the Steelers offer is well above any others. I just don't think there's any chance they're going to give him a fair shot. He has to be significantly better; otherwise the #1 pick and current #1 on the depth chart will get every chance to prove the team right in choosing him.
Now I'm off to the Google to Google Tannehill wife.
5-ish Finkle
Footballguy
Yeah, this is exactly where I'd be living were I in his shoes too, and it's why I think those who feel like it's a foregone that they'll easily have him back to compete for the gig are being a little obtuse.
I've made zero secret in these parts that I don't think Rudolph's very good, "three game okay streak" aside, but he could easily feel like he "got done a little dirty" the past few years. If a remotely similar offer for a requisite/better shot to perhaps start for a few seasons comes along, I can't imagine he isn't taking it.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
Settling for Rudolph at QB is settling for another season of total mediocrity, at best.
I'd rather take a swing on someone with upside and risk falling completely on our faces than accept he is the best we can do and trudge along through another uninspiring nothingy season.
I would genuinely rather we take a swing on someone like Darnold, it's something different, it probably won't work but the bird in hand in this instance is so unremarkable to me I just want us to accept that what we've been doing is not going to compete for a title and make some sort of bold attempt to do something different. Definition of insanity and all that.
I'd rather take a swing on someone with upside and risk falling completely on our faces than accept he is the best we can do and trudge along through another uninspiring nothingy season.
I would genuinely rather we take a swing on someone like Darnold, it's something different, it probably won't work but the bird in hand in this instance is so unremarkable to me I just want us to accept that what we've been doing is not going to compete for a title and make some sort of bold attempt to do something different. Definition of insanity and all that.
3C's
Footballguy
Oh hell no. If I'm going to take a "swing" on a free agent QB it's Jake Browning.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
The specific player isn't really relevant. It's the taking the swing that I'm bothered about. Trying something different. The guys in the room now are not it.
Of all the free agent QBs I think Cousins is the best and I also think there is about a zero % chance the Steelers would pursue.
I see Mason in that 2nd bucket of QBs. Not great but who in that bucket is? Would be extremely disappointed if Russell Wilson was brought in even if for the league minimum.
Love the idea of a “high upside QB” but imo they’ll draft that in the mid rounds this spring.
Wigglytuff's Gruff
Footballguy
This is fine also.
I just don't want to see the Steelers thinking they have their guy or even a guy who is up to the job right now. It's a waste of time given any of these guys meaningful playing time next season.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I am okay going in with Pickett and Rudolph for 2024.
Use this year to solidify the offensive line and fill some holes on defense and please, dear God, get a new punter. If they can accomplish that I think they can compete for a wildcard and possibly even win a playoff game. If the QBs suck and the team tanks then we will be in a good position to get a potential franchise QB in the 2025 draft.
Trying to stay positive anything is better than Matt Canada.
Ironically, that’s what Atlanta fans were saying a few weeks ago lol.
He’s definitely better suited as a coordinator than a HC, fwiw.
Godsbrother
Footballguy
I'll keep an open mind.
Great hire IMO and I'm going to address some points.
Arthur is not a friend to fantasy football players but I want to say something regarding how everyone says he misused the 3 skill players they took in the top 10. Pitts has not been healthy the better part of the last 2 seasons, not since he went for 1K as a rookie TE. Bijan started complaining of general soreness around the mid point of the season and Arthur said he has to be careful with how he used him. That stunk for fantasy but in real life terms not running a rookie RB into the ground was not bad coaching, especially when you got a second year RB coming off a 1k season and Bijan still had exactly 300 combined targets and carries. London I believe was 25th in target share, maybe tad underused, maybe all of them were a tad underused, but I think it's overblown and misses some of the bigger picture of what he was trying to do and all of them were of course hurt by bad QB play.
What Arthur was trying to do, and maybe his ego got in the way, was play position less football. That was the idea behind the drafting of these 3 players as he thought he could line them up all over.
Most importantly I think people are so caught up in those 3 players stats they don't see the success he had with other players. He had Tannehill for two seasons, the best two seasons of his career. Jonnu Smith has been in the league 7 years with 3 different teams. 3 of those seasons, covering two teams with a multi-year gap in between he had Arthur as his OC or HC and it just so happens those are easily this 3 most productive seasons. He oversaw Henry's breakout and again his only two seasons with Henry happened to be his two best seaons(barely in one case). None of those seem like a coincidence to me. He essentially re-invented Cordarell Patterson. Took a 5th round rookie RB and saw him go over 1k at almost 5 yards a clip.
So let's step back. We don't even know how good those 3 top 10 picks are and they've deal with injuries, wear/tear and poor QB play so people want to say he's terrible for not getting more out of them yet the crowd is silent that he's got the absolute best out of multiple other players. The absolute best.
Also people bag on him for trying to make it work with Ridder but I don't see what other options he really had. I always thought he was more trying to work with the poor hand he was dealt.
Because of his success with the running game I think he's a great fit and I think he'll be able to get lot more out of our heavily under utilized TE room which should have been a major strength. Can he develop Pickett? I dont' know but maybe no one can but I'd again point out Tannehill has his best two seasons the only two years he was with him and of course that makes me wonder.....
One thing that will be interesting is how he handles our two Diva starting WR's. One thing I always noticed with Atlanta was those 3 top 10 picks never looked like they pouted over not getting the ball. I have mentioned that on these boards several times and my guess is he did a good job of communicating their roles to them. Pickens and Diontae will present him a whole other test if the ball is not coming their way.
So put me down as this being a great hire and now I'm interested in Munchak or Tannehill rumors.
Arthur is not a friend to fantasy football players but I want to say something regarding how everyone says he misused the 3 skill players they took in the top 10. Pitts has not been healthy the better part of the last 2 seasons, not since he went for 1K as a rookie TE. Bijan started complaining of general soreness around the mid point of the season and Arthur said he has to be careful with how he used him. That stunk for fantasy but in real life terms not running a rookie RB into the ground was not bad coaching, especially when you got a second year RB coming off a 1k season and Bijan still had exactly 300 combined targets and carries. London I believe was 25th in target share, maybe tad underused, maybe all of them were a tad underused, but I think it's overblown and misses some of the bigger picture of what he was trying to do and all of them were of course hurt by bad QB play.
What Arthur was trying to do, and maybe his ego got in the way, was play position less football. That was the idea behind the drafting of these 3 players as he thought he could line them up all over.
Most importantly I think people are so caught up in those 3 players stats they don't see the success he had with other players. He had Tannehill for two seasons, the best two seasons of his career. Jonnu Smith has been in the league 7 years with 3 different teams. 3 of those seasons, covering two teams with a multi-year gap in between he had Arthur as his OC or HC and it just so happens those are easily this 3 most productive seasons. He oversaw Henry's breakout and again his only two seasons with Henry happened to be his two best seaons(barely in one case). None of those seem like a coincidence to me. He essentially re-invented Cordarell Patterson. Took a 5th round rookie RB and saw him go over 1k at almost 5 yards a clip.
So let's step back. We don't even know how good those 3 top 10 picks are and they've deal with injuries, wear/tear and poor QB play so people want to say he's terrible for not getting more out of them yet the crowd is silent that he's got the absolute best out of multiple other players. The absolute best.
Also people bag on him for trying to make it work with Ridder but I don't see what other options he really had. I always thought he was more trying to work with the poor hand he was dealt.
Because of his success with the running game I think he's a great fit and I think he'll be able to get lot more out of our heavily under utilized TE room which should have been a major strength. Can he develop Pickett? I dont' know but maybe no one can but I'd again point out Tannehill has his best two seasons the only two years he was with him and of course that makes me wonder.....
One thing that will be interesting is how he handles our two Diva starting WR's. One thing I always noticed with Atlanta was those 3 top 10 picks never looked like they pouted over not getting the ball. I have mentioned that on these boards several times and my guess is he did a good job of communicating their roles to them. Pickens and Diontae will present him a whole other test if the ball is not coming their way.
So put me down as this being a great hire and now I'm interested in Munchak or Tannehill rumors.
3C's
Footballguy
The comments on the tweet are going to be priceless!
crushedspirit
Footballguy
If he treats Pickens like he treated an unused stud like London, you'll see fireworks soon.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Increasing a commitment to running the ball is objectively dumb. It is not how you win in modern football. That being said, Smith is an innovative run game coordinator. If you are going to run the ball, he is a good choice as OC, but you also need a mobile QB.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
He'll bring his zone heavy run concepts that the league's defenses already know about. He'll use TE sets and try popping a play action to one of them once in awhile. Pickens and DJ better learn how to block all day because that's what they'll be doing instead of catching passes. Don't look for any Kenny development, and expect a run heavy approach in the draft. His use of Drake was abysmal at best, and criminal at worst.
steelcityman
Footballguy
I dont hate it, dont love it either. Very Steeler-ish move. Bland. But if Najee/Warren can combine to get close to what Henry did, should be good enough. Gotta get 2 OL(C and RT) if they want to go that route with big success. Cant really be a passing team with no QB. George just has to get thru 2 years and go be a free agent.
crushedspirit
Footballguy
As is this hire doesn't surprise me since he's no threat to coach Tomlin and will just run what the coach wants in an offense. A Tomlin hire 100%.
steelcityman
Footballguy
AJ Brown, TENN WR, 2019 and 2020 under Smith's offense, over 2000 yards and 19 TDs combined. Pickens would love those numbers.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
This logic is always presented and always wrong. Teams run the ball when they are ahead.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
I am concerned about Rooney's comments on the OC. As long as he continues to push a dated notion that the Steelers should run the ball, the team will not play to full potential.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
It isn't that bad.
Drunken Cowboy
Footballguy
Pickens is the 3rd receiving option. In Smith's offense I would expect 50-60 targets
No, I'm not citing you the actual games were teams run for 100 yards or whatever stat. Teams that can run the football when they need to is and always has been a winning formula.
Oof.
It’s not an innovative hire. It’s status quo.
Give me somebody from the 49ers or Lions. Give me an up and comer who thinks outside the box. Give me somebody that knows it’s 2024 in the NFL.
Arthur Smith isn’t any of those things.
