2025 College Football Thread: Jordon leaves Belichick for Sonny Dykes (17 Viewers)

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

 

[msudaisy26]

I cant believe Michigan is appealing this. Why not just move on?

There's no additional penalty if the appeal is denied so no reason not to is my guess

But it is a **** move. Maybe they could try not taking that route for once.

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I cant believe Michigan is appealing this. Why not just move on?

There's no additional penalty if the appeal is denied so no reason not to is my guess

But it is a **** move. Maybe they could try not taking that route for once.

I guess. I don't know what costs are involved with the appeals process, but I'm thinking they'd like to try and get some of those fines reduced. They were pretty hefty and the guys paying probably would like to try and see that number come down. Business is business, and it is a business.

 

[General Malaise]

Always appeal if it's an option.

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

 

[bagger]

I am a hater so I need to ask more neutral fans... is this the most ridiculous answer to give? It makes it hard for me to respect Riley.

"Riley took a question about whether or not he wanted the rivalry to keep going and his answer was essentially, "if we can have easier schedules everywhere else, then yes, we'll play Notre Dame." the answer has been rightfully panned across the internet as yet again coming off as complaining about being in the Big Ten, while that was USC's choice."

There are tons of USC fans that are livid about USC’s approach to this rivalry. And this isn’t just Riley, it’s Jen Cohen and others in the administration. And yes, the issue is 100% about having a perennial playoff team as one of their non-conference games every year which may (but not necessarily) make a path to the playoffs more difficult.

But to be clear, this is what Riley said based on what I read. But you’re right about what is ultimately driving this.

“Do I want to play the game? Hell, yeah, I want to play the game,” Riley said. “It’s one of the reasons I came here. But also, my allegiance and my loyalty is not to Notre Dame and not to anyone else. I’m the head coach of USC. I’m going to back USC. And I’m going to do everything in my power to make USC as good as it can be. I’m not going to let anything stand in between that.”

Wait are we surprised that Lincoln Riley wants to duck more competition to try and do something easier?

Well USC did probably have the toughest non-conference schedule last season, but yeah, he would definitely prefer to have an SEC setup (4 non-conference with 3 patsies typically).

Weird. Wonder if he could have been at a blue blood program and in the SEC if that were true...or if maybe he left for the easiest competition available (explicitly because he didn't want to go to the SEC) and has had poor teams every year since. And now is whining about how his schedule is too hard.

Idk. I've met the guy. I don't think he's a very good leader. I think he's a phenomenal offensive mind, but every successive year he's been a head coach I think he's even worse at it lol.

I think he left because he got a truckload of money.

I'd love to see some evidence of that. My recollection is that OU was willing to pay top of market.

Maybe some people would prefer to live in SoCal vs Norman, OK.

I mean that could absolutely be true also. But I'd love to see any reporting on it. I only know the discussions leading up to it and immediately after - to my knowledge at no point did he ever say "I appreciate it, but I'd rather be in LA."

It was, however, reported that he said he didn't want OU to move to the SEC. That is a fact.

I can't guess what was in his head.

Well, another season like last season and he'll no longer have the option of being so 'choosey'. And I don't think the NFL is calling him either.

They should be. As an OC. He's got an awesome football mind and is a great playcaller. Some guys can't be the head coach and still do the other stuff.

Sure, I could see him being an OC in the NFL but I don't think he'd cut it as a HC in the pros. But I don't think the NFL is calling him for HC jobs if he has another season like this past one. I don't think that's an outlandish belief.

I don't think he can really cut it as a HC in college. And that was my opinion before he left OU. I'm in total agreement with that point.

I agree. I don’t think he has what it takes to be a good head coach.

But he’s better than Helton so that’s an improvement.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

 

[rockaction]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I don’t know. All of it sounds pretty nefarious and I kind of like Michigan and dislike their CFB rivals (M. State? Oh State?) The only team I’d cheer for in the conference against them would have been Northwestern but they’re dead to me, so . . . no axe to grind but that sounds uber shady and very cheat.

 

[Jayded]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

 

[rockaction]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

It’s weird. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I think their 2018 title is tainted. And I never wanted to see Alex Cora on their bench again ever. He led the cheating.

So yeah, I am morally superior to fans that apologize for this garbage and the only reason this garbage flies is because fans personally accept it in order to be called winners. It’s wretched. And there are so many problems with it that it would take two pages to describe.

We wonder why things like morals and ethical considerations are shunted in the name of fake brass rings and devil money and it’s you. It’s the celebrating Michigan fan. You you you you you.

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I don’t know. All of it sounds pretty nefarious and I kind of like Michigan and dislike their CFB rivals (M. State? Oh State?) The only team I’d cheer for in the conference against them would have been Northwestern but they’re dead to me, so . . . no axe to grind but that sounds uber shady and very cheat.

Brother, if you think sign stealing was the lone author to their 2023 championship, nothing I say will dissuade you.

I find it humorous that all the bag-man, under the table cheating Alabama and Auburn did to win their titles gets a minor footnote in the history and lore of college football but THIS is egregious? OK.....

 

[whoknew]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

It’s weird. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I think their 2018 title is tainted. And I never wanted to see Alex Cora on their bench again ever. He led the cheating.

So yeah, I am morally superior to fans that apologize for this garbage and the only reason this garbage flies is because fans personally accept it in order to be called winners. It’s wretched. And there are so many problems with it that it would take two pages to describe.

We wonder why things like morals and ethical considerations are shunted in the name of fake brass rings and devil money and it’s you. It’s the celebrating Michigan fan. You you you you you.

I am going to respectfully disagree with you here. Cheating has been a part of sports since the beginning of time. In baseball alone, there have always been performance enhancing drugs, spitballs, emery boards, sign stealing, etc. Nascar has a term - "rubbing is racing." College sports? Goodness.

I could keep listing all the ways cheating is at the minimum tolerated and at the other end celebrated. So I'm not really buying the morally superior viewpoint here.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

It’s weird. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I think their 2018 title is tainted. And I never wanted to see Alex Cora on their bench again ever. He led the cheating.

So yeah, I am morally superior to fans that apologize for this garbage and the only reason this garbage flies is because fans personally accept it in order to be called winners. It’s wretched. And there are so many problems with it that it would take two pages to describe.

We wonder why things like morals and ethical considerations are shunted in the name of fake brass rings and devil money and it’s you. It’s the celebrating Michigan fan. You you you you you.

Ok, I'm guessing this is in my direction. I'm sorry if it seems unethical to support your team, but I'm happy they didn't get bent over. A little light hearted mild trash talk in college football is usually ok and fun (like 2085 days since oSU won "the game" for instance) but if this is hitting everyone's last nerve in a not fun way then I'll move on from it. Outside of oSU and little sister nobody will care in a week when real games start anyway (Which probably proves your overall point).

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I don’t know. All of it sounds pretty nefarious and I kind of like Michigan and dislike their CFB rivals (M. State? Oh State?) The only team I’d cheer for in the conference against them would have been Northwestern but they’re dead to me, so . . . no axe to grind but that sounds uber shady and very cheat.

Brother, if you think sign stealing was the lone author to their 2023 championship, nothing I say will dissuade you.

I find it humorous that all the bag-man, under the table cheating Alabama and Auburn did to win their titles gets a minor footnote in the history and lore of college football but THIS is egregious? OK.....

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

 

[kupcho1]

Michigan, the Houston Astros of the NCAA. Or vice versa. Both work.

FTR I've vacated their Championships personally as I'm sure many others have.

I don't think the university or their fans care about your last sentence.

Can confirm

Sure, fans of the cheating teams still consider the championships as earned, that's why I said "many others" and not everyone.
If you want to celebrate hollow victories, I certainly won't try and stop you.

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Michigan, the Houston Astros of the NCAA. Or vice versa. Both work.

FTR I've vacated their Championships personally as I'm sure many others have.

I don't think the university or their fans care about your last sentence.

Can confirm

Sure, fans of the cheating teams still consider the championships as earned, that's why I said "many others" and not everyone.
If you want to celebrate hollow victories, I certainly won't try and stop you.

Thank you for your consideration in these troubled times.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

I am not saying that you keep saying it. If Michigan was so good and inevitable to win the title then why did they cheat?

They cheated, they cheated in close games, they cheated in games they would have won easily. If there was no advantage, then why do it?

Penn State is littered with NFL talent and never win titles, schools with all the NFL talent have lost games to teams without that much talent.

 

[Dan Lambskin]

I really enjoyed that Michigan national championship

 

[Boston]

I probably missed it (and actually understand the thinking), but I don't remember the NCAA not wanting to punish current players for past violations...is that something new?

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

I am not saying that you keep saying it. If Michigan was so good and inevitable to win the title then why did they cheat?

They cheated, they cheated in close games, they cheated in games they would have won easily. If there was no advantage, then why do it?

Penn State is littered with NFL talent and never win titles, schools with all the NFL talent have lost games to teams without that much talent.

They also did NOT cheat at all to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama and finally Washington. They were the better team.

Keep grinding the axe, I'm fatigued by the whole thing.

Ps: Penn State hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since Clinton was in office. Michigan's championship winning QB was drafted in the 1st round in 2024. Coincidence? I think not.

 

[msudaisy26]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

I am not saying that you keep saying it. If Michigan was so good and inevitable to win the title then why did they cheat?

They cheated, they cheated in close games, they cheated in games they would have won easily. If there was no advantage, then why do it?

Penn State is littered with NFL talent and never win titles, schools with all the NFL talent have lost games to teams without that much talent.

They also did NOT cheat at all to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama and finally Washington. They were the better team.

Keep grinding the axe, I'm fatigued by the whole thing.

Ps: Penn State hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since Clinton was in office. Michigan's championship winning QB was drafted in the 1st round in 2024. Coincidence? I think not.

How about Ohio States qb last year?

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

I am not saying that you keep saying it. If Michigan was so good and inevitable to win the title then why did they cheat?

They cheated, they cheated in close games, they cheated in games they would have won easily. If there was no advantage, then why do it?

Penn State is littered with NFL talent and never win titles, schools with all the NFL talent have lost games to teams without that much talent.

They also did NOT cheat at all to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama and finally Washington. They were the better team.

Keep grinding the axe, I'm fatigued by the whole thing.

Ps: Penn State hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since Clinton was in office. Michigan's championship winning QB was drafted in the 1st round in 2024. Coincidence? I think not.

How about Ohio States qb last year?

Crazy right? He lost to a Michigan team that couldn't throw the ball 7 yards. They must have had the signs that day too, because somehow that dude was on a NC team (what i can only imagine must be better sweet considering there's only one game that matters in these parts).

(Alright, now I'll stop. My day is coming I'm sure, but for today all the hammer swingers are gonna have to take a bite of the **** sandwich they made for themselves)

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

They were dogs to OSU at 7.5 and favored by 2.5 against Alabama. This seems like a weird narrative to go with.

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

It is, but they were beatable. This wasn't some of the Alabama, LSU teams etc that just ran through college football. The cheating helped.

Okay, they weren't 2019 LSU. But they went 15-0 and beat Saban in his final college football game to do it. They didn't cheat to win that game and they sure as hell didn't cheat beating the brakes off an exceptional UW team. They imposed their will on that team.

I'm not a Michigan fan. I have celebrated with glee every time the Oregon Ducks whopped the Wolverines. But I think it is asinine to carry on with a belief that the only reason they won the 2023 Natty was on account of "cheating". That's a take for people with an axe to grind against Michigan.

I didn’t say that and you moved the goal posts. You said no one was beating them in 2023. They weren't that kind of team. How much did the cheating/sign stealing help. We will never know.

You know how would know? If they didn't cheat.

No one DID beat them in 2023. The sign stealing came to light Oct. 19, 2023.

On Oct. 21 they beat Michigan State 49-0. You think that was cheating or was Michigan just that much better?

3 weeks after the cheating scandal dominated headlines, they beat Penn State 24-15. They did that without their coach and without throwing the football. Cheating? C'mon.....

The rest is history. If you want to believe the championship was tainted because they cheated to win it, nothing I say here will change your mind. But my goodness, with all the scrutiny and spotlight thrust upon them after the story broke they went on to beat Penn State, Ohio State, win the Big10 in a curbstomping of Iowa, beat the greatest college coach in NCAA history before winning the championship game over UW by the 2nd quarter.

You think they cheated in those games?

Yes they did. The big ten actually told MichiganState they were.

BREAKING: Big Ten warns Michigan State it has 'credible evidence' Michigan is sign-stealing

The Big Ten Conference warns Michigan State football it has 'credible evidence' rival Wolverines are sign-stealing, NCAA investigating U-M scouting methods

www.si.com

Buddy, if you think cheating was how Michigan beat Michigan State 49-0 in 2023 then we are going to have to respectfully disagree.

You think absent cheating the score is closer in that one? I don’t. Talent is talent and coaching is coaching. That Michigan team has littered the NFL with its players and its head coach is sits with a .673 winning percentage in the NFL. All cheating?

I am not saying that you keep saying it. If Michigan was so good and inevitable to win the title then why did they cheat?

They cheated, they cheated in close games, they cheated in games they would have won easily. If there was no advantage, then why do it?

Penn State is littered with NFL talent and never win titles, schools with all the NFL talent have lost games to teams without that much talent.

They also did NOT cheat at all to beat Penn State, Ohio State, Iowa, Alabama and finally Washington. They were the better team.

Keep grinding the axe, I'm fatigued by the whole thing.

Ps: Penn State hasn't had a QB drafted in the 1st round since Clinton was in office. Michigan's championship winning QB was drafted in the 1st round in 2024. Coincidence? I think not.

How about Ohio States qb last year?

On an NFL roster where like, 17 of his teammates reside now?

 

[General Malaise]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

They were dogs to OSU at 7.5 and favored by 2.5 against Alabama. This seems like a weird narrative to go with.

They won. Both games. Is there a point you're attempting to make here?

 

[General Malaise]

Look, I hate Michigan as much as the next guy and relish Oregon's three victories over them in the modern era but this take that they only won a Natty in 2023 because of sign stealing stinks of bias, jealousy and sour grapes. Let it go. They won. They looked good doing it too.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

Nobody was beating Michigan in 2023, sign stealing or no. They were the best team in the country and proved it.

Move. On.

They barely beat Albama and OSU. This wasn't LSU with Burrow.

Cancels nothing. 15-0 in 2023 is an incredible achievement. Barely beating teams like Bama and Ohio State is still a remarkable accomplishment. If they barley beat Purdue I might see your point but they beat the very best and then kocked the stuffing out of a very good UW team that put a crap ton of players into the NFL.

They were dogs to OSU at 7.5 and favored by 2.5 against Alabama. This seems like a weird narrative to go with.

They won. Both games. Is there a point you're attempting to make here?

Yes. Mostly that its weird to say "they barely won" Problem here seems to be with the "feels" expectation thrust on them over the objective, stats driven one.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

Look, I hate Michigan as much as the next guy and relish Oregon's three victories over them in the modern era but this take that they only won a Natty in 2023 because of sign stealing stinks of bias, jealousy and sour grapes. Let it go. They won. They looked good doing it too.

I’m joining this conversation late and you probably don’t want to keep answering questions on it, so ignore if you want.

Do you acknowledge that they cheated for at least portions of three seasons?

Do you acknowledge by UM cheating in 21 and 22 might have benefited them in the 23 season?

Does everyone that was on the National Championship team stay for the 23 season if they were continuing to lose in 21 and 22 seasons like they had been? When Harbaugh was 0-5 against Ohio State and had a losing record against Michigan State and a losing record in bowl games? I doubt it. So they may have not cheated in those big games in 23 but the cheating still benefited them.

I’m a Buckeye Homer and I feel like in the 21 and 22 seasons we got ripped off by their cheating. In 23 they were a better team that we almost beat. In 24 I don’t know what happened? Day got inside his own head and that loss is completely on him.

I think there should’ve been more consequences for what the NCAA claim they know UM did but I guess the NCAA is not dishing out punishments like they did a decade ago when Ohio State was banned from a bowl and had to forfeit a bunch of games for tattoo gate.

Doesn’t seem fair to me but it is what it is and my feelings isn’t going to change it. Either go beat them on the field or let them continue on this 4-0 run against us.

I need to get over it and be ready to move forward.

 

[Schmeabs]

I really enjoyed that Michigan national championship

I did too. Huge Michigan fan that day. I will always be grateful of them for denying Washington a championship.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I need to get over it and be ready to move forward.

November 29, 2025 you guys will be welcomed with open arms to the Big House. The hype is already at a fever pitch and I can't wait. "The Game" is always one of my favorite days of the year and as an oSU homer I'm guessing the same for you.

I don't know about 21 and 22, you guys want to believe "cheating" is why you lost, believe it, the excuses from the rivals are getting tired. Scores stand either way. 23 and 24 though Michigan put the better team on the field both days and there's no "cheating" no excuses.

The hammer stuff has been fun, but I'm glad it's over and done with. Lots of feels involved in college football, it's damn near religious. Rival tears are always sweet, so I'm that obnoxious Michigan fan. My feels are that our boys earned that for us over oSU four years running after we had to take it the prior 5. Enjoy being the defending champs, new season is within spitting distance. Looking forward to 5 in a row.

 

[rockaction]

Look, I hate Michigan as much as the next guy and relish Oregon's three victories over them in the modern era but this take that they only won a Natty in 2023 because of sign stealing stinks of bias, jealousy and sour grapes. Let it go. They won. They looked good doing it too.

I’m joining this conversation late and you probably don’t want to keep answering questions on it, so ignore if you want.

Do you acknowledge that they cheated for at least portions of three seasons?

Do you acknowledge by UM cheating in 21 and 22 might have benefited them in the 23 season?

Does everyone that was on the National Championship team stay for the 23 season if they were continuing to lose in 21 and 22 seasons like they had been? When Harbaugh was 0-5 against Ohio State and had a losing record against Michigan State and a losing record in bowl games? I doubt it. So they may have not cheated in those big games in 23 but the cheating still benefited them.

I’m a Buckeye Homer and I feel like in the 21 and 22 seasons we got ripped off by their cheating. In 23 they were a better team that we almost beat. In 24 I don’t know what happened? Day got inside his own head and that loss is completely on him.

I think there should’ve been more consequences for what the NCAA claim they know UM did but I guess the NCAA is not dishing out punishments like they did a decade ago when Ohio State was banned from a bowl and had to forfeit a bunch of games for tattoo gate.

Doesn’t seem fair to me but it is what it is and my feelings isn’t going to change it. Either go beat them on the field or let them continue on this 4-0 run against us.

I need to get over it and be ready to move forward.

We’ve had some laughs over the years. I’m still the whitest guy in the most dire need of a ___ job you’ve ever met. I feel for you here and agree with you about feeling like this was completely underhanded and unjust.

But—and this is a big but—the reason you have no governing body to enforce the rules in the sport you love is because everybody involved in the whole entire thing decided they would strip adults of their very basic right to earn a living. It isn’t a “right” in the sense of screaming “**** the draft” in a courthouse or some weird and nouveau outre French positive right regarding the proper fromage that must come with your rent-controlled apartment in Paris before your weekly 8 PM Tuesday visit to the living Aquinas mimes.

No, these were adults at the apex of their potential profession given their age class—the best—that your specific part of the football industry had prevented (and colluded with other organizations to prevent) any form of payment to the adults that were the principal laborers enduring that which was tantamount to the cruel condition of chattel slavery while those who lorded over them raked in not millions but billions of dollars yearly from their efforts. The refusal of those overseeing this sham to do anything but delude themselves has now overseen a charade that has been identified in a second by the real power brokers and those brokers have effectively served to strip the tyrannical conspirators of football of any future power considering the egregious nature of the fifty years of conditioned squalor masquerading as joyous victory and persevering will to whom the spoils shall be reaped and delivered as promised.

This glorious occasion and overthrow of the most unjust payment arrangement in modern history has had its aftershocks and one of those aftershocks is the inability to punish wrongdoers in a professional capacity because the governing body charged with finding fault in the past missed the obvious target and was punitive towards the powerless.

Let this not be lost on anybody.

 

[rockaction]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

It’s weird. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I think their 2018 title is tainted. And I never wanted to see Alex Cora on their bench again ever. He led the cheating.

So yeah, I am morally superior to fans that apologize for this garbage and the only reason this garbage flies is because fans personally accept it in order to be called winners. It’s wretched. And there are so many problems with it that it would take two pages to describe.

We wonder why things like morals and ethical considerations are shunted in the name of fake brass rings and devil money and it’s you. It’s the celebrating Michigan fan. You you you you you.

Ok, I'm guessing this is in my direction. I'm sorry if it seems unethical to support your team, but I'm happy they didn't get bent over. A little light hearted mild trash talk in college football is usually ok and fun (like 2085 days since oSU won "the game" for instance) but if this is hitting everyone's last nerve in a not fun way then I'll move on from it. Outside of oSU and little sister nobody will care in a week when real games start anyway (Which probably proves your overall point).

I think you massively overestimate what nerve you’ve hit and that the blow might have swerved left at the nerve and tickled the absurd part of my funny bone. Bud, this isn’t butthurt, it’s Sisyphus responding by pushing that rock up that hill again while you piss on everyone’s leg and laugh about the weather.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

Two cents on Michigan is the committee did note two things : it was a three year period of time over which it occurred, not just one season. It also said it chose financial penalties given coaches like Harbaugh and staffers like Stallions were gone, although post season bans were warranted, though they didn’t feel right to punish the current athletes.

We’ll never truly know the extent or the advantage it gave, which is also the statement from the NCAA. I think it’ll go down as college football’s Houston Astros trash can scandal - each may have been the best team, but some will always put an asterisk next to it because of their own actions.

It’s weird. I’m a diehard Red Sox fan and I think their 2018 title is tainted. And I never wanted to see Alex Cora on their bench again ever. He led the cheating.

So yeah, I am morally superior to fans that apologize for this garbage and the only reason this garbage flies is because fans personally accept it in order to be called winners. It’s wretched. And there are so many problems with it that it would take two pages to describe.

We wonder why things like morals and ethical considerations are shunted in the name of fake brass rings and devil money and it’s you. It’s the celebrating Michigan fan. You you you you you.

Ok, I'm guessing this is in my direction. I'm sorry if it seems unethical to support your team, but I'm happy they didn't get bent over. A little light hearted mild trash talk in college football is usually ok and fun (like 2085 days since oSU won "the game" for instance) but if this is hitting everyone's last nerve in a not fun way then I'll move on from it. Outside of oSU and little sister nobody will care in a week when real games start anyway (Which probably proves your overall point).

I think you massively overestimate what nerve you’ve hit and that the blow might have swerved left at the nerve and tickled the absurd part of my funny bone. Bud, this isn’t butthurt, it’s Sisyphus responding by pushing that rock up that hill again while you piss on everyone’s leg and laugh about the weather.

Fair enough. It's just college football to me. It's for fun. I'm glad you're taking my intentions in stride and it hit your funny bone and not a nerve. I'm not trying to piss on anyone's leg (well, maybe a few drips on a couple).

It does take the fun out of it when you can't throw a few jabs at the rival fan bases. I would expect nothing less in return. I mean my fan base has had to eat the **** sandwich plenty. Is what it is. It's why i love college football over the NFL regardless of all its warts and self inflicted wounds.

 

[Beef Ravioli Part 2]

I need to get over it and be ready to move forward.

November 29, 2025 you guys will be welcomed with open arms to the Big House. The hype is already at a fever pitch and I can't wait. "The Game" is always one of my favorite days of the year and as an oSU homer I'm guessing the same for you.

I don't know about 21 and 22, you guys want to believe "cheating" is why you lost, believe it, the excuses from the rivals are getting tired. Scores stand either way. 23 and 24 though Michigan put the better team on the field both days and there's no "cheating" no excuses.

The hammer stuff has been fun, but I'm glad it's over and done with. Lots of feels involved in college football, it's damn near religious. Rival tears are always sweet, so I'm that obnoxious Michigan fan. My feels are that our boys earned that for us over oSU four years running after we had to take it the prior 5. Enjoy being the defending champs, new season is within spitting distance. Looking forward to 5 in a row.

By the way, you had taken it more than five in a row. Tressel was 9-1 against UM. Meyer was 7-0 against UM. Day won his fist game against UM. Prior to your 4 game winning streak, I believe it was OSU 17 and UM 2 (one of the wins was against Fickell while he was the interim).

You are correct though, it is put up or shut up this year. No excuses.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I need to get over it and be ready to move forward.

November 29, 2025 you guys will be welcomed with open arms to the Big House. The hype is already at a fever pitch and I can't wait. "The Game" is always one of my favorite days of the year and as an oSU homer I'm guessing the same for you.

I don't know about 21 and 22, you guys want to believe "cheating" is why you lost, believe it, the excuses from the rivals are getting tired. Scores stand either way. 23 and 24 though Michigan put the better team on the field both days and there's no "cheating" no excuses.

The hammer stuff has been fun, but I'm glad it's over and done with. Lots of feels involved in college football, it's damn near religious. Rival tears are always sweet, so I'm that obnoxious Michigan fan. My feels are that our boys earned that for us over oSU four years running after we had to take it the prior 5. Enjoy being the defending champs, new season is within spitting distance. Looking forward to 5 in a row.

By the way, you had taken it more than five in a row. Tressel was 9-1 against UM. Meyer was 7-0 against UM. Day won his fist game against UM. Prior to your 4 game winning streak, I believe it was OSU 17 and UM 2 (one of the wins was against Fickell while he was the interim).

You are correct though, it is put up or shut up this year. No excuses.

You are correct. It was a reaming for so long my brain can only process 5 . Everything in your first paragraph is pain. I've grinned and bared it, no excuses and that sucked. I'm going to take the current Michigan run and savor it, they don't last, but damn is it fun.

We can both admit it's way more fun having a competitive rivalry? Throw in a little controversy to really make it burn and it just doesn't get any better.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

But—and this is a big but—the reason you have no governing body to enforce the rules in the sport you love

This seems to be a HUGE disconnect. The NCAA has been there my whole life time and even prior to my existence. During that entire time, they have been consistently inconsistent in their "governing". We would never know from one infraction to the next what was going to happen. Two teams could do the exact same thing and get two different punishments, or no punishment at all. The rules they came/come up with consistently stepped on their claimed mission and objectives/goals.

It seems like most see that body for what it is and doesn't take it seriously. There is a reason that the engagement on this is driven more by subjectivity than anything else. That's how the NCAA rules. That's what people are accustom to. The only people that care about this particular incident are the OSU, MSU and UM fans with a few of us sprinkled in to watch the show between them, oh, and ESPN. The rest of college football has remained generally silent on this only breaking the silence occasionally to say how dumb/arbitrary the rule was/is and that Michigan is far from the only team doing this.

I think its much more accurate to say that there is a governing body and its completely worthless and has worked hard to earn that label as it picks and chooses who its winners and losers are because their existence depends on the success of CFB and the NCAABB tournament. All decisions they make appear to have those goals at the forefront. The NCAA is a joke and has been for a very long time.

 

[rockaction]

I think that if you look up “arbitrary and capricious” in Black’s Law Dictionary, that freaking logo is there. Or, if you’re a jingoistic loving emeff like me you can harken back to the Boz and get your initialism insult in.

 

[massraider]

The recurring theme of the two Michigan/Harbaugh NCAA investigations is everyone lied and lied and lied

https://x.com/slmandel/status/1956375682583581117?t=5lOn1Rz_z4-bcbUuuqq6_g&s=19

Cheated and cheated, then lied and lied and lied.

Enjoy the stories about the great culture Harbaugh building with the Chargers!

 

[kupcho1]

This glorious occasion and overthrow of the most unjust payment arrangement in modern history has had its aftershocks and one of those aftershocks is the inability to punish wrongdoers in a professional capacity because the governing body charged with finding fault in the past missed the obvious target and was punitive towards the powerless.

I don't see the relationship. Michigan wasn't cheating by paying players or having them trade autographs for tattoos. They cheated in a much more harmful way that marred the integrity of the game.

Allowing players NIL doesn't limit their ability to properly punish cheating the game.

It's a disgrace.

 

[rockaction]

This glorious occasion and overthrow of the most unjust payment arrangement in modern history has had its aftershocks and one of those aftershocks is the inability to punish wrongdoers in a professional capacity because the governing body charged with finding fault in the past missed the obvious target and was punitive towards the powerless.

I don't see the relationship. Michigan wasn't cheating by paying players or having them trade autographs for tattoos. They cheated in a much more harmful way that marred the integrity of the game.

Allowing players NIL doesn't limit their ability to properly punish cheating the game.

It's a disgrace.

I think when you undermine what had been an institution’s main purpose that its other enforcement areas suffer from the feelings of past wrongs and legitimacy questions that colored its previous work and extends that uncertainty and weakness into its other work. It’s a weak organization now. It had seemed strong but that was only to the extent that the institutions themselves agreed to be bound. Those arrangements tend to collapse under stress, and we can see the NCAA’s weakness every passing day. The weakness becomes cyclical and self-fulfilling. It’s like a troubled fiat currency or a reserve banking system.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I like that Michigan fans don't even need to say a word (granted I've said a few, saying a few more here, many more other places than this). The self own from the hammer frenzy is classic in a way you don't see everyday. I mean oSU guys have a national championship, just last season, but you sure couldn't tell by how triggered they all are.

There was no hammer, never was going to be a hammer. Anyone that believed this got sold a bridge. Let it go, it's over, finito. If you have a favorite team get acquainted with how they look for this season.

 

[Sparky Polastri]

This glorious occasion and overthrow of the most unjust payment arrangement in modern history has had its aftershocks and one of those aftershocks is the inability to punish wrongdoers in a professional capacity because the governing body charged with finding fault in the past missed the obvious target and was punitive towards the powerless.

I don't see the relationship. Michigan wasn't cheating by paying players or having them trade autographs for tattoos. They cheated in a much more harmful way that marred the integrity of the game.

Allowing players NIL doesn't limit their ability to properly punish cheating the game.

It's a disgrace.

Does it give you any sort of pause in this analysis when we hear from the other CFB programs that this is a pretty accepted practice among the teams in Division 1 football?

 

[msudaisy26]

I like that Michigan fans don't even need to say a word (granted I've said a few, saying a few more here, many more other places than this). The self own from the hammer frenzy is classic in a way you don't see everyday. I mean oSU guys have a national championship, just last season, but you sure couldn't tell by how triggered they all are.

There was no hammer, never was going to be a hammer. Anyone that believed this got sold a bridge. Let it go, it's over, finito. If you have a favorite team get acquainted with how they look for this season.

The same Michigan fans cried about how we are the only clean program for the last 30 years while they won nothing. It goes both ways.

 

[The Longtime Lurker]

I like that Michigan fans don't even need to say a word (granted I've said a few, saying a few more here, many more other places than this). The self own from the hammer frenzy is classic in a way you don't see everyday. I mean oSU guys have a national championship, just last season, but you sure couldn't tell by how triggered they all are.

There was no hammer, never was going to be a hammer. Anyone that believed this got sold a bridge. Let it go, it's over, finito. If you have a favorite team get acquainted with how they look for this season.

The same Michigan fans cried about how we are the only clean program for the last 30 years while they won nothing. It goes both ways.

Maybe. I've never cried about anything. I took my lumps. Shoes on the other foot and oSU can't handle losing and it's sour grapes and excuses.

Look, really, I don't want to go around and around. The hammer stuff was silly. Michigan got their win, i took a victory lap (my posts about this have all said the same. It's a giant nothing and will be treated as such and here we are). I didn't want to do that as an ungracious fan, but it's pretty low hanging fruit, everyone was riled up, so I've returned the favor i got for years in a mostly light hearted way.

If this is something you guys hang on to for years to come so be it. We've got an exciting freshman qb (now that we also buy players, but that's another story, sorry, last jab) and I'm moving on to this season. Dish it out, i can take it, but 24hrs of sign gate is all I've got to put into it.

Good luck with Texas. We'll know a lot about you both after that one.