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2025 Detroit Lions: 4-1 Lions win battle of the big cats. (40 Viewers)

zftcg said:
Rapoport reporting Austin will be Bengals DC. Which would seem to support that Patricia is coming (although Austin would presumably be gone no matter what).

Even though the defense's performance has been up and down, I like Austin and hope he eventually gets his shot at a HC job.
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Gruden wants him in Oakland as his Assistant HC. I don’t know why anyone with decent credentials would want to work for Brown & Lewis.

 
BobbyLayne said:
Gruden wants him in Oakland as his Assistant HC. I don’t know why anyone with decent credentials would want to work for Brown & Lewis.
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Especially since that would position him to become interim coach when the Gruden experiment implodes in a couple years.  :lmao:

I don't know what will end up happening, but I suspect there is a lot of "negotiating through the media" going on here.

 
Almost choked when I heard someone say they would rather have Bortles than Stafford.

Average of 18 points on the road not anything to brag about, but let's see how much longer that big 10 points a game at home wins you playoff games.

 
Leroy Hoard said:
Almost choked when I heard someone say they would rather have Bortles than Stafford.

Average of 18 points on the road not anything to brag about, but let's see how much longer that big 10 points a game at home wins you playoff games.
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Stafford with that Jax D is a Super Bowl contender

 
It's why I get annoyed when some people ( including some Lions fans ), say that Stafford isn't good enough and use his playoff record as their proof. You telling me that Osweiler is better than Stafford because he beat a Raiders team that had lost Carr the week before ??! Or Bortles ? Hahaha such nonsense. 

 
TartanLion said:
It's why I get annoyed when some people ( including some Lions fans ), say that Stafford isn't good enough and use his playoff record as their proof. You telling me that Osweiler is better than Stafford because he beat a Raiders team that had lost Carr the week before ??! Or Bortles ? Hahaha such nonsense. 
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To be pedantic precise, they lost Carr two weeks before. The week before, they lost McGloin. Cook was their third stringer.

Reminds me of the time when Peyton lost to the Ravens in the 2012 playoffs. Someone posted "Career Broncos playoff wins: Tebow 1, Manning 0"

 
King of the Jungle said:
Not sure how to feel about that.
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Same. I was on the fence with Caldwell being fired. Cooter is actually the guy on the staff that I really wanted out. But Caldwell seemed to manage the players and coaches well. He had the full respect of everyone on the team. Austin made the most out of what is a pretty talent depleted unit. The Lions record the last 2 years screams overachieving. This puts a lot of pressure on the Quinn. He is firing the winningest coach in the SB era for a guy with no HC experience. I like that Quinn has really high expectations- I just hope it doesn't blow up in his face. Caldwell took the Lions from amature hour to regular playoff contender so anything less than 10 wins will look pretty stupid. 

I can't really explain why I don't like Patricia. Maybe it is because the Patriots assistants have all been disasters elsewhere? IDK, but I don't get a good feeling about it. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Same. I was on the fence with Caldwell being fired. Cooter is actually the guy on the staff that I really wanted out. But Caldwell seemed to manage the players and coaches well. He had the full respect of everyone on the team. Austin made the most out of what is a pretty talent depleted unit. The Lions record the last 2 years screams overachieving. This puts a lot of pressure on the Quinn. He is firing the winningest coach in the SB era for a guy with no HC experience. I like that Quinn has really high expectations- I just hope it doesn't blow up in his face. Caldwell took the Lions from amature hour to regular playoff contender so anything less than 10 wins will look pretty stupid. 

I can't really explain why I don't like Patricia. Maybe it is because the Patriots assistants have all been disasters elsewhere? IDK, but I don't get a good feeling about it. 
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Didn't realize you were a detroiter ... like your posting in the FFA ??

Back on topic, Caldwell had to go IMO ... nice guy (except to the local media) but his better suited as an assistant. His in game management was terrible - and his teams never had any fight. Cooter made Stanford comfortable, and Austin made the D respectable. 

I don't know how I feel about Patricia yet ... but I DO like that Quinn is finally making his own hire. I think that's the only way any of this is ever gonna work. It's gotta start from the top. 

If the GM isn't running the team exactly how he wants, then we will never know what's what. 

 
Ilov80s said:
Same. I was on the fence with Caldwell being fired. Cooter is actually the guy on the staff that I really wanted out. But Caldwell seemed to manage the players and coaches well. He had the full respect of everyone on the team. Austin made the most out of what is a pretty talent depleted unit. The Lions record the last 2 years screams overachieving. This puts a lot of pressure on the Quinn. He is firing the winningest coach in the SB era for a guy with no HC experience. I like that Quinn has really high expectations- I just hope it doesn't blow up in his face. Caldwell took the Lions from amature hour to regular playoff contender so anything less than 10 wins will look pretty stupid. 

I can't really explain why I don't like Patricia. Maybe it is because the Patriots assistants have all been disasters elsewhere? IDK, but I don't get a good feeling about it. 
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Exactly. Outside of the hoodie none of them are worth anything...

 
So now speculation is Patricia favors the Giants?  Still a couple of good candidates out there and nothing definite yet. 

 
whoknew said:
This report is really strange to me. Why would he favor the Giants over the Lions? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
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According to the New Yawk media, so far along with Patricia the Giants are also going to be coached by Bill Belichick & Nick Saban. Should make those press conferences kind of crowded on that podium.

 
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whoknew said:
This report is really strange to me. Why would he favor the Giants over the Lions? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
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According to an article I read he is perfect for the New York job so clearly it’s a done deal. There is no substance to it. I think Detroit is the better opportunity, albeit I’m biased. We’ll see. 

 
whoknew said:
This report is really strange to me. Why would he favor the Giants over the Lions? That doesn't make a lot of sense.
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First of all, don't read too much into speculation and rumors. Most of these people don't actually know, and some of the ones who do know may be spinning to advance a certain agenda (for example, the rumors of Austin to the Raiders may have been a negotiating ploy to get the Bengals to pony up).

But in the abstract, I can think of plenty of reasons why a coaching candidate would favor the Giants over the Lions. Stable, well-respected ownership. Flagship NFL franchise. Super Bowl-winning QB and All-Pro WR. Belichick has a history there and would potentially steer his assistants in that direction.

Not saying it would be the right decision, and certainly not predicting it will happen. I have no idea. But if it does, I wouldn't be surprised.

Real question is who is Detroit's Plan B if they don't get Patricia. McDaniels? Wilks? Cooter?

 
zftcg said:
First of all, don't read too much into speculation and rumors. Most of these people don't actually know, and some of the ones who do know may be spinning to advance a certain agenda (for example, the rumors of Austin to the Raiders may have been a negotiating ploy to get the Bengals to pony up).

But in the abstract, I can think of plenty of reasons why a coaching candidate would favor the Giants over the Lions. Stable, well-respected ownership. Flagship NFL franchise. Super Bowl-winning QB and All-Pro WR. Belichick has a history there and would potentially steer his assistants in that direction.

Not saying it would be the right decision, and certainly not predicting it will happen. I have no idea. But if it does, I wouldn't be surprised.

Real question is who is Detroit's Plan B if they don't get Patricia. McDaniels? Wilks? Cooter?
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I hear you. But a couple of things - 

  • First, the rumor I read was 2nd hand from Peter King. He's pretty reliable - though obviously the ones spreading the rumor may have ulterior motives.
  • Second, that SB winning QB is on his last legs in NY. I doubt there's any team that would take Eli Manning over Matt Stafford at this stage of their careers. And, if you are a coach, I would think just about your #1 decision on which team to coach would be who the QB is. Its so important. And the Lions are set there. NYG aren't. 
  • I read that Vrabel was the second choice. Again, though, just rumors.
 
whoknew said:
I hear you. But a couple of things - 

  • First, the rumor I read was 2nd hand from Peter King. He's pretty reliable - though obviously the ones spreading the rumor may have ulterior motives.
  • Second, that SB winning QB is on his last legs in NY. I doubt there's any team that would take Eli Manning over Matt Stafford at this stage of their careers. And, if you are a coach, I would think just about your #1 decision on which team to coach would be who the QB is. Its so important. And the Lions are set there. NYG aren't. 
  • I read that Vrabel was the second choice. Again, though, just rumors.
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Right, forgot about Vrabel. Anyway, whatever happens, the Lions will presumably figure this out beforehand. It's not like they're going to wake up the day after the Super Bowl and wait by the phone, hoping Patricia calls. When the Falcons hired Quinn a couple years ago, and when the Niners hired Shanahan last year, both teams clearly had a verbal agreement in place weeks beforehand.

As for King, he is well respected, but he also has one of the biggest megaphones in sports media. If you wanted to get a story out there for whatever reason, he's one of the people you'd turn to. Again, I have no idea what's actually going on. But I'm not going to lose any sleep over rumors. We'll find out soon enough.

 
People are putting too much emphasis on the qb as too why the Giants job is better or not better than the Lions. The organization is better, it is also closer to home for Patricia and anyone could argue that Stafford is a better qb than Eli ever has been. Yet the Giants have a ring and the Lions don't. 

 
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... after 20+ years of being a Lions "fan" I think I can honestly say I don't care anymore who the new coach will be.

I had a ton of optimism for Quinn - but that's now fading as all the talk of JBC being retained. Why would a new HC want to come in and not be able to bring in his own staff? 

The only candidate that would be ok with that scenario is one that is not qualified and just wants a bullet point on his resume.

Terrible stuff, and SOL

 
Ray Barboni said:
... after 20+ years of being a Lions "fan" I think I can honestly say I don't care anymore who the new coach will be.

I had a ton of optimism for Quinn - but that's now fading as all the talk of JBC being retained. Why would a new HC want to come in and not be able to bring in his own staff? 

The only candidate that would be ok with that scenario is one that is not qualified and just wants a bullet point on his resume.

Terrible stuff, and SOL
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I'm generally much more patient and positive about the Lions than most fans but this describes where I'm at.

If it's true Quinn is advocating for Cooter being kept, I don't get it. I understood wanting to keep him after his first half-season as OC when Stafford instantly played much better when Cooter was calling the plays. But since then the offense hasn't be good enough to warrant drawing a line in the sand on keeping him. It's weird to me.

I'd rather see someone closer to Linehan at this point who let him sling it around. This ball-control stuff they've been running for two years has let them eek out wins against bad teams and do just enough to lose to good teams. Time for a change.

 
Apple Juice said:
I'm generally much more patient and positive about the Lions than most fans but this describes where I'm at.

If it's true Quinn is advocating for Cooter being kept, I don't get it. I understood wanting to keep him after his first half-season as OC when Stafford instantly played much better when Cooter was calling the plays. But since then the offense hasn't be good enough to warrant drawing a line in the sand on keeping him. It's weird to me.

I'd rather see someone closer to Linehan at this point who let him sling it around. This ball-control stuff they've been running for two years has let them eek out wins against bad teams and do just enough to lose to good teams. Time for a change.
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Exactly. And a big "wtf" should be thrown Staffords way as well - sure ok, you like Cooter we get it. But grow up dude. Highest paid QB, you've played in multiple systems. If you're a franchise QB you shouldn't "need" your buddy to hang around and cater plays to you. Lead the team regardless of the OC - 

i think the only thing I'd be satisfied with at this point, is JBC gone. If it hurts Staffod then so be it ... just means he's not a great QB. 

Clean the entire staff out. We've got talent. They just need the right direction, and that only comes with an entire staff on the same page - which won't happen if the new HC brings old baggage along.

 
I don't have any strong opinions one way or another on keeping JBC, but I think it's part of a trend of teams hiring HCs who are basically glorified coordinators. McVay is the most prominent example right now, but it goes back at least as far as Harbaugh (the reason Richard Sherman switched to CB at Stanford was because he hated Harbaugh and wouldn't have to deal with him if he was on defense).

 
Just because we’ve retained jbc doesn’t mean we keep him. If we hire Patricia or vrabel and it’s after the SB or even the afc championship then a lot of candidates may have taken other jobs, and jbc may be an alternative. If we don’t bring in more interviews or make a hire in the next few days I think it’s Patricia. 

 
* i added vrabel into that but we obviously don’t have to wait to hire him and the point about other coaches having jobs already doesn’t really apply. 

 
zftcg said:
Stafford with that Jax D is a Super Bowl contender
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Keep in mind that Jax has that great defense because they were 22-74 that last 6 season before this year.

With that defense there are a number of QBs who would make them a Super Bowl team.

 
msudaisy26 said:
People are putting too much emphasis on the qb as too why the Giants job is better or not better than the Lions. The organization is better, it is also closer to home for Patricia and anyone could argue that Stafford is a better qb than Eli ever has been. Yet the Giants have a ring and the Lions don't. 
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I understand what you are saying. I just think that the QB is the #1 indicator of success in the NFL. If you don't have a good one - you aren't winning (200whatever Tampa Bay Bucs  and 200whatever Baltimore Ravens excepted). 

And its not exactly easy to find a good QB. 

But obviously the Giants franchise historically is WAY more successful than the Lions. So maybe he just trusts them more to find a new one.

 
I hate that I feel compelled to do this, but I will... I will defend the Lion's ownership.  The Lion's have been awful for years, but the biggest flaw in the ownership has been their undying loyalty to their employees.  They aren't cheap, they don't meddle, they have stability, they have a modern stadium and provide outstanding facilities for the team.  All of the aspects of an ownership group that should matter to a coaching candidate are all pretty positive with the Lion's.  So far, Martha seems to be continuing that trend... same ownership group, no reports of her being cheap or trying to cut any costs, and it's the same family it has been for years.  In fact, by all accounts, she absolutely loved Caldwell, and yet let Quinn fire him despite a pretty damn good record, outstanding if considering he did it with the Lion's.  

I'm not trying to compare the Ford's to the Mara's, but I would argue that the Lion's ownership should be appealing to a coaching candidate if anything.  

 
Mene said:
I hate that I feel compelled to do this, but I will... I will defend the Lion's ownership.  The Lion's have been awful for years, but the biggest flaw in the ownership has been their undying loyalty to their employees.  They aren't cheap, they don't meddle, they have stability, they have a modern stadium and provide outstanding facilities for the team.  All of the aspects of an ownership group that should matter to a coaching candidate are all pretty positive with the Lion's.  So far, Martha seems to be continuing that trend... same ownership group, no reports of her being cheap or trying to cut any costs, and it's the same family it has been for years.  In fact, by all accounts, she absolutely loved Caldwell, and yet let Quinn fire him despite a pretty damn good record, outstanding if considering he did it with the Lion's.  

I'm not trying to compare the Ford's to the Mara's, but I would argue that the Lion's ownership should be appealing to a coaching candidate if anything.  
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Consistently hire awful people and don't care enough to do anything about it. Would rather have Jerry Jones.

 
Defensive rankings during the Austin era;

2014
Yards: 2nd
Points: 3rd
DVOA*: 3rd
Team record: 11-5

2015
Yards: 18th
Points: 23rd
DVOA: 16th
Team record: 7-9

2016
Yards: 18th
Points: 13th
DVOA: 32nd
Team record: 9-7

2017
Yards: 27th
Points: 21st
DVOA: 19th
Team record: 9-7

 
whoknew said:
I understand what you are saying. I just think that the QB is the #1 indicator of success in the NFL. If you don't have a good one - you aren't winning (200whatever Tampa Bay Bucs  and 200whatever Baltimore Ravens excepted). 

And its not exactly easy to find a good QB. 

But obviously the Giants franchise historically is WAY more successful than the Lions. So maybe he just trusts them more to find a new one.
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Amazing the Vikings dominated with Case Keenum. They are better than we think.  I wanted Zimmer before Caldwell was hired.  Zimmer just seems to have to combo

 
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This sounds like the kind of thing Christopher Harris is referring to when he says "Don't believe the farts and whistles". A source says something to a beat reporter, he writes it up, and then the RW guys conclude "things have changed course" and "Patricia is the clear favorite", even though the article itself just says the Giants like him and he will have to decide between them and the Lions. It's a case of trying to inject narrative drama where it may not exist. And we don't know who the original source is, or what agenda they might have.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9486/matt-patricia

ESPN Giants reporter Jordan Raanan reports Patriots DC Matt Patricia is the "favorite" for the Giants' head-coaching job.

Less than a week ago, PFT reported the Patriots expected Patricia to take the Lions' job, reuniting with GM Bob Quinn. Things have appeared to change course over the last 48 hours, with Patricia now the clear favorite in New York. Per Raanan, the Giants are down to Patricia, Patriots OC Josh McDaniels, and Vikings OC Pat Shurmur. Patricia is 43 and has never been a head coach.
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All that said, at this point I'm fairly indifferent between Patricia and Vrabel.

 
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voiceofunreason said:
Consistently hire awful people and don't care enough to do anything about it. Would rather have Jerry Jones.
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I liked the original post but THIS was a glaring omission of the Ford ownership description. They hired the wrong people AND remained entirely too loyal for too long. All the other positives are just lipstick on a pig and everyone else knows it.

I get the feeling it's changing though. 

 
Futz said:
I liked the original post but THIS was a glaring omission of the Ford ownership description. They hired the wrong people AND remained entirely too loyal for too long. All the other positives are just lipstick on a pig and everyone else knows it.

I get the feeling it's changing though. 
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I remember ford jr and his dad butting heads to the point where jr left the team I believe. It was his dads refusal to address the glaring problems. I think Martha is listening to the right people and letting the professionals handle it. 

 
zftcg said:
This sounds like the kind of thing Christopher Harris is referring to when he says "Don't believe the farts and whistles". A source says something to a beat reporter, he writes it up, and then the RW guys conclude "things have changed course" and "Patricia is the clear favorite", even though the article itself just says the Giants like him and he will have to decide between them and the Lions. It's a case of trying to inject narrative drama where it may not exist. And we don't know who the original source is, or what agenda they might have.

http://www.rotoworld.com/player/nfl/9486/matt-patricia

All that said, at this point I'm fairly indifferent between Patricia and Vrabel.
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NYC is a massive #echochamber. Ever been in a meeting where every C-level thinks they gotta get their two cents in but really they’re just reiterating / restating what’s already been dropped? This feels the same, like they think it’s a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Hey maybe the reports are true; makes sense on a couple levels. Ties to the area, the Giants are a premium organization even if they are coming off a disastrous season. But nobody knows IMO, I think it’s still an open question.

I prefer Patricia but I’m cool with giving a young  experienced defensive guy who has spent his entire life in excellent programs / franchises. The fundamental quality needed is strong leadership. Change the tone, demand excellence, hold people accountable, show the way.

 
bicycle_seat_sniffer said:
Vrabel is far too green to hand over the hc job to. And if patricia takes the nyg job..they ahould roll with shurmur...
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I tend to agree with this. Vrabel reminds me of Millen. Patricia and this Lion's situation reminds me of when the brilliant Ivy league school but rookie HC guy Ausmus took over the ready made Tigers team. Shurmur may be exactly what this particular team needs.

 
I would take Jim Schwartz back. I liked him before and now he has been a HC, matured and learned and has always been a great DC and smart guy.

 
Looks like Patricia is going to be the Lions new HC.  After reading a number of things about him I am liking the hire.

 
bigupsetter said:
You have to give GM of Vikes some credit, overhauled o-line, got keenum on the cheap
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Actually Keenem is better than given credit for.  Was a great college passer and now seems to have found his niche in the NFL game.  Has the "it" factor.  Knows where to put the ball and can scramble out of problems.  Plays a style like a poor mans Drew Brees.

Keenum makes like 1.5 this year, Foles 3 million, pretty nice return for a playoff win.

 
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Da Guru said:
Actually Keenem is better than given credit for.  Was a great college passer and now seems to have found his niche in the NFL game.  Has the "it" factor.  Knows where to put the ball and can scramble out of problems.  Plays a style like a poor mans Drew Brees.
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Keenum dint get love coming out of college, he didnt look like proto-typical QB like Bortles...lol

 
Da Guru said:
Actually Keenem is better than given credit for.  Was a great college passer and now seems to have found his niche in the NFL game.  Has the "it" factor.  Knows where to put the ball and can scramble out of problems.  Plays a style like a poor mans Drew Brees.

Keenum makes like 1.5 this year, Foles 3 million, pretty nice return for a playoff win.
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Keenum earned all of it this year, he was absoulety horrible before this year. 

 
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