*** 2025 Pittsburgh Steelers: Fire Tomlin chants and Renegade booed during loss to Bills (31 Viewers)

[steelcityman]

We have the Ravens twice. These last weeks will all essentially be playoff games and atmospheres. The team beats the Ravens twice and gets on a roll with an identity, the AFC is wide open, and it can be 2005 . . . .

with all due respect, rather they lose out, 6-11 get a high draft spot, and maybe package to move up and get Mendoza if they want him. But then it comes back to Tomlin, he cant develop a QB.
It would actually make sense, if they were to make a move for a top QB in the draft, to clean out the coaching staff. Either hire a good OC as HC, and have him bring in his crew or hire a good DC and bring in some rising star at OC. Any new QB cant have the same coaches as Rudolph and Pickett and Fields.

 

[crushedspirit]

Tomlin and Arthur Joseph Rooney II walk away together after the 2027 season. Hopefully Khan travels into the sunset with them as well.

 

[JohnnyU]

Tomlin and Arthur Joseph Rooney II walk away together after the 2027 season. Hopefully Khan travels into the sunset with them as well.

Long walks on the beach walking hand n hand?

 

[menobrown]

defense couldn’t stop the same running play over and over. It seemed like the team just quit.

This was my exact thought when watching the game.

For the first time since Tomlin became the head coach I think the end is near. By no means would I call that a lock but if I believe it's more likely then not to happen. I'm not sure if it will be a firing, Tomlin walking or a mutual decision and we may not even know the truth but I think it's coming and I've never thought that before.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Tomlin and Arthur Joseph Rooney II walk away together after the 2027 season. Hopefully Khan travels into the sunset with them as well.

Kahn's farther down the list of "what's wrong with this team?", IMO. Not totally blameless by any stretch, but the gap between the GM and the owner/coach in the culpability chain is fairly large. The scouting/drafting process under Kahn has been pretty sound. You can argue the players drafted (which is driven heavily by the coach and owners preferences, as it is everywhere), but the process seems solid.

Free agents acquired are a different matter. But there again, a lot of that is almost certainly predicated on the proclivities of the other two individuals above him on the org chart.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

This was my exact thought when watching the game.

Same, and part of it makes me wonder if they (the players) are also just over the scheme?

Hearing Watt after the game state openly "We couldn't stop the same two plays over and over and I can't really tell you why", then looking at replay seeing that they never really adjusted playcalling/alignments, it's not a big secret why they couldn't. The Bills kept throwing extra personnel to Watt's side, and the Steelers kept lining him up closer to the ball anyway. No wonder he was basically invisible.

 

[menobrown]

This was my exact thought when watching the game.

Same, and part of it makes me wonder if they (the players) are also just over the scheme?

Hearing Watt after the game state openly "We couldn't stop the same two plays over and over and I can't really tell you why", then looking at replay seeing that they never really adjusted playcalling/alignments, it's not a big secret why they couldn't. The Bills kept throwing extra personnel to Watt's side, and the Steelers kept lining him up closer to the ball anyway. No wonder he was basically invisible.

Yes and the other thing Watt said that caught my attention, which Rodgers also mentioned, was that they did not feel like they had a good week of practice, lacking energy and tempo. Rodgers wondered if it was the cold? Are you kidding me, the cold? Talk about the standard not being the standard.

Two of the key leaders on both sides of the ball saying this combined with the team looking like they've just had enough is why I said what I did in the rest of my post, which is that think for the first time since he became the head coach I feel like this might be his last season. We all know Tomlin is not much with the X's and O's, if he can't even get the team to practice and play hard then I think asking what he's good for is a legit question even the most ardent Tomlin backer should ask themselves. I'm really saying this without emotion or have been one of the people calling for Tomlin's head for years. We know the scheme is not exactly cutting edge stuff, we know why he does not have a coaching tree. His callin card is a leader/motivator. We've seen signs for years now his message is getting stale, which tends to happen when you remain at one place for so long so I'm not even critical of him over this, this stuff just runs it's course sometimes, I think these things just have reached a point I think everyone involved won't be able to ignore it any longer.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

 

[Dizzy]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

 

[C & C]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

Good questions, but when you can be mediocre for 10+ seasons and they won't fire you? I'd say job security is attractive. Honestly, that's all I got.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

1. Its an opportunity to try and restore the relevance of one of the NFL's historically great and stable franchises. I think that would be attractive, yes.

2. I think the fanbase is so tired of the status quo that the potential to be great again would be attractive too. I don't think ownership will have a choice - the roster will dictate that a rebuild is necessary and that decision will be made for them, not by them. Band aids aren't working anymore.

3. They have a lot of capital for the draft in Pittsburgh next year. I'll reserve judgement on that until after I see what they use it for.

4. I don't expect the Steelers to have a Greatest Show on Turf type of offensive. But there are minds out there who'd be able to use the talent they DO have more imaginatively and a more aggressive and balanced approach would allow them to build the roster differently. Guys like Wilson and Austin can have a nice sized role in almost any offense if used properly. In Arthur Smith's offense under Tomlin's strategy? Nope.

Lots of moving parts here. But it's nice to see Tomlin getting some legit pressure from fans and the media... about 5 years later than it should have But it's a start and it'll be enough to get ownership's attention.

 

[Dizzy]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

Good questions, but when you can be mediocre for 10+ seasons and they won't fire you? I'd say job security is attractive. Honestly, that's all I got.

That's because Tomlin plays along. There was no QB succession plan to Ben. Even in his last 3+ years when he was a statue held together with duct tape. It feels like (to me)... given a choice of being "just" competitive in the division vs tearing down and rebuilding... the Ownership group much prefers the former. Otherwise, the obvious move would have been to trade away your valuable defensive assets - as opposed to paying them to play into their 30s.

Tomlin has simply committed to getting the most out of a mid-pack roster. Which he has done. It's not sexy, but they are never going to compete for Super Bowls with this current roster model - regardless of who the head coach is.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

It is worse than you are making it out. The ownership is a huge problem. The fans have ridiculous expectations. It is a bad roster and going to be worse.

 

[fred_1_15301]

We have the Ravens twice. These last weeks will all essentially be playoff games and atmospheres. The team beats the Ravens twice and gets on a roll with an identity, the AFC is wide open, and it can be 2005 . . . .

This doesn’t have a 2005 feel to it at all. We have been trending in the wrong direction for quite some time now. Yesterday almost felt like an away game with Bills fans taking over. Almost. Completely embarrassing but maybe that’s what it will take for change (I.e. the team continues to embarrass themselves)

I don't recall what 2005 felt like before they went on the winning streak.

We have limited weapons, but ones that SHOULD fit the offense, and we don't seem to use them. It's odd.

Vastly different teams IMO. Can you argue that some of it is due to coaching? Sure but I think there is a legit difference in talent between those teams (starting at the most important position of course). Here are some of the differences statistically between the 2 teams.

1. Point differential - 2005 Steelers ranked # 5; 2025 Steelers currently ranked # 18
2. Offensive total points - 2005 Steelers ranked # 9; 2025 Steelers ranked # 15
3. Total offensive yards - 2005 Steelers rank # 15; 2025 Steelers ranked # 27
4. Offensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers rank # 8; 2025 Steelers rank # 15
5. Defensive points against - 2005 Steelers rank # 3; 2025 Steelers rank # 19
6. Defensive yards against - 2005 Steelers rank # 4; 2025 Steelers rank # 28
7. Defensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers 1.9/game; 2025 Steelers 1.8 per game
8. Sacks - 2005 Steelers 2.9/game; 2025 Steelers 2.8 per game

I know this doesn't tell the entire story but these are 2 drastically different teams trending in very different directions.

 

[Leeroy Jenkins]

We have the Ravens twice. These last weeks will all essentially be playoff games and atmospheres. The team beats the Ravens twice and gets on a roll with an identity, the AFC is wide open, and it can be 2005 . . . .

This doesn’t have a 2005 feel to it at all. We have been trending in the wrong direction for quite some time now. Yesterday almost felt like an away game with Bills fans taking over. Almost. Completely embarrassing but maybe that’s what it will take for change (I.e. the team continues to embarrass themselves)

I don't recall what 2005 felt like before they went on the winning streak.

We have limited weapons, but ones that SHOULD fit the offense, and we don't seem to use them. It's odd.

Vastly different teams IMO. Can you argue that some of it is due to coaching? Sure but I think there is a legit difference in talent between those teams (starting at the most important position of course). Here are some of the differences statistically between the 2 teams.

1. Point differential - 2005 Steelers ranked # 5; 2025 Steelers currently ranked # 18
2. Offensive total points - 2005 Steelers ranked # 9; 2025 Steelers ranked # 15
3. Total offensive yards - 2005 Steelers rank # 15; 2025 Steelers ranked # 27
4. Offensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers rank # 8; 2025 Steelers rank # 15
5. Defensive points against - 2005 Steelers rank # 3; 2025 Steelers rank # 19
6. Defensive yards against - 2005 Steelers rank # 4; 2025 Steelers rank # 28
7. Defensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers 1.9/game; 2025 Steelers 1.8 per game
8. Sacks - 2005 Steelers 2.9/game; 2025 Steelers 2.8 per game

I know this doesn't tell the entire story but these are 2 drastically different teams trending in very different directions.

I hear you and am not arguing. Just asking/forgetting. Where did the 2005 rank at this point in the season in those categories? Stranger Things have happened.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

It is worse than you are making it out. The ownership is a huge problem. The fans have ridiculous expectations. It is a bad roster and going to be worse.

Fans don't have ridiculous expectations. Fans expect the team to try to contend, not to just be content stagnating at barely above .500 and being an afterthought in the playoffs.

I'd bet most fans would gladly take a year or two of real struggles if they showed even the slightest bit of urgency to make the team a contender again. I'd rather they try and fail than to just sit here hoping for 9 wins and #6 or #7 seed in the playoffs.

9 wins may win the division this year, but that doesn't change anything. It's still the same old Steelers.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Rodgers also mentioned, was that they did not feel like they had a good week of practice,

A-a-ron also intimated not everyone showed up for film study. I was like "Ummm...wuuuut?" That's voluntary? How is that voluntary?

 

[5-ish Finkle]

We've seen signs for years now his message is getting stale, which tends to happen when you remain at one place for so long so I'm not even critical of him over this, this stuff just runs it's course sometimes, I think these things just have reached a point I think everyone involved won't be able to ignore it any longer.

This is basically where I've been with him since the Blake Bortles game. I don't hate Mike. I don't "think he sucks." There are no underlying/ulterior reasons or motivations for me not really believing in him since then. I don't think he unequivocally can't still have success. I just don't think he can do it in a place where the primary group of individuals he got on board with his message, and preached it/policed it for a decade for him, aren't around any longer (and haven't been for 5-8 years). He comes off stubborn and proud, and that's not a great look when you're talking about almost a decade since your team had a pulse in a big game.

Sometimes the best of messages/intentions begin to ring hollow after that long, especially when apparently no one other than the messenger (and I suppose the owner, of course, even if tacitly) is evangelizing said message.

 

[Dizzy]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

It is worse than you are making it out. The ownership is a huge problem. The fans have ridiculous expectations. It is a bad roster and going to be worse.

Fans don't have ridiculous expectations. Fans expect the team to try to contend, not to just be content stagnating at barely above .500 and being an afterthought in the playoffs.

I'd bet most fans would gladly take a year or two of real struggles if they showed even the slightest bit of urgency to make the team a contender again. I'd rather they try and fail than to just sit here hoping for 9 wins and #6 or #7 seed in the playoffs.

9 wins may win the division this year, but that doesn't change anything. It's still the same old Steelers.

So what's the plan? How do the Steelers get into a top-5 draft position? Who's the QB? Who's the coach?

 

[fred_1_15301]

We have the Ravens twice. These last weeks will all essentially be playoff games and atmospheres. The team beats the Ravens twice and gets on a roll with an identity, the AFC is wide open, and it can be 2005 . . . .

This doesn’t have a 2005 feel to it at all. We have been trending in the wrong direction for quite some time now. Yesterday almost felt like an away game with Bills fans taking over. Almost. Completely embarrassing but maybe that’s what it will take for change (I.e. the team continues to embarrass themselves)

I don't recall what 2005 felt like before they went on the winning streak.

We have limited weapons, but ones that SHOULD fit the offense, and we don't seem to use them. It's odd.

Vastly different teams IMO. Can you argue that some of it is due to coaching? Sure but I think there is a legit difference in talent between those teams (starting at the most important position of course). Here are some of the differences statistically between the 2 teams.

1. Point differential - 2005 Steelers ranked # 5; 2025 Steelers currently ranked # 18
2. Offensive total points - 2005 Steelers ranked # 9; 2025 Steelers ranked # 15
3. Total offensive yards - 2005 Steelers rank # 15; 2025 Steelers ranked # 27
4. Offensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers rank # 8; 2025 Steelers rank # 15
5. Defensive points against - 2005 Steelers rank # 3; 2025 Steelers rank # 19
6. Defensive yards against - 2005 Steelers rank # 4; 2025 Steelers rank # 28
7. Defensive turnovers - 2005 Steelers 1.9/game; 2025 Steelers 1.8 per game
8. Sacks - 2005 Steelers 2.9/game; 2025 Steelers 2.8 per game

I know this doesn't tell the entire story but these are 2 drastically different teams trending in very different directions.

I hear you and am not arguing. Just asking/forgetting. Where did the 2005 rank at this point in the season in those categories? Stranger Things have happened.

I don't have the full stats at that point in the season but I can tell you that they were 7-5 (coming off a 3 game losing streak) with a + 49 point differential. Their 3 losses were at Baltimore (overtime loss), at Indy (best team in the league) and home against Cincy (top 3-4 team). Then they went on the 4 game win streak to close out the regular season beating solid Chicago and Minnesota teams along the way. It was a long time ago but I remember having much more hope at that time. If this team were to make a run like that, I would be so shocked that I would almost fear that the world is about to come to an end.

 

[sm8680]

The fact that Mike Tomlin, a defensive-minded coach, needs one of the league’s highest-paid defenses just to function is ludicrous. What’s worse is that despite all the investment, this unit still isn’t living up to its potential.

Mike Tomlin is going to leave this team in worse shape than when he inherited it. His reputation was built in the first four years of his career, riding on Bill Cowher’s players and coaches. Like Steelers4Life and others have stated. Since then, what we’ve witnessed is a slow bleed a steady decline masked by occasional flashes, but ultimately a team drifting further from its potential.

It’s incredibly frustrating being a Steelers fan right now. The Texans racked up 8 sacks, yet our defense couldn’t manage a single one. The Bills were missing both starting tackles, and still we got gouged by basically two run plays. The output was absolutely pathetic, and to make matters worse, the team looked like it just gave up.

I’ve said before that the Steelers’ luck would be if the Giants wanted Mike Tomlin as their head coach. But let’s be honest Tomlin probably wouldn’t take that job, and the Giants would likely lean toward an offensive-minded hire anyway. What we saw yesterday was a coach who looked tired and old. The “Fire Tomlin” chant was well deserved, and I hope it shakes him to his core.

 

[Dizzy]

The fact that Mike Tomlin, a defensive-minded coach, needs one of the league’s highest-paid defenses just to function is ludicrous. What’s worse is that despite all the investment, this unit still isn’t living up to its potential.

Mike Tomlin is going to leave this team in worse shape than when he inherited it. His reputation was built in the first four years of his career, riding on Bill Cowher’s players and coaches. Like Steelers4Life and others have stated. Since then, what we’ve witnessed is a slow bleed a steady decline masked by occasional flashes, but ultimately a team drifting further from its potential.

It’s incredibly frustrating being a Steelers fan right now. The Texans racked up 8 sacks, yet our defense couldn’t manage a single one. The Bills were missing both starting tackles, and still we got gouged by basically two run plays. The output was absolutely pathetic, and to make matters worse, the team looked like it just gave up.

I’ve said before that the Steelers’ luck would be if the Giants wanted Mike Tomlin as their head coach. But let’s be honest Tomlin probably wouldn’t take that job, and the Giants would likely lean toward an offensive-minded hire anyway. What we saw yesterday was a coach who looked tired and old. The “Fire Tomlin” chant was well deserved, and I hope it shakes him to his core.

So, you are saying that Mike Tomlin is 100% responsible for all roster decisions? Bill Cowher too apparently?

Interesting. I didn't know that.

 

[JohnnyU]

The fact that Mike Tomlin, a defensive-minded coach, needs one of the league’s highest-paid defenses just to function is ludicrous. What’s worse is that despite all the investment, this unit still isn’t living up to its potential.

Mike Tomlin is going to leave this team in worse shape than when he inherited it. His reputation was built in the first four years of his career, riding on Bill Cowher’s players and coaches. Like Steelers4Life and others have stated. Since then, what we’ve witnessed is a slow bleed a steady decline masked by occasional flashes, but ultimately a team drifting further from its potential.

It’s incredibly frustrating being a Steelers fan right now. The Texans racked up 8 sacks, yet our defense couldn’t manage a single one. The Bills were missing both starting tackles, and still we got gouged by basically two run plays. The output was absolutely pathetic, and to make matters worse, the team looked like it just gave up.

I’ve said before that the Steelers’ luck would be if the Giants wanted Mike Tomlin as their head coach. But let’s be honest Tomlin probably wouldn’t take that job, and the Giants would likely lean toward an offensive-minded hire anyway. What we saw yesterday was a coach who looked tired and old. The “Fire Tomlin” chant was well deserved, and I hope it shakes him to his core.

Aren’t they getting old to boot?

 

[sm8680]

The fact that Mike Tomlin, a defensive-minded coach, needs one of the league’s highest-paid defenses just to function is ludicrous. What’s worse is that despite all the investment, this unit still isn’t living up to its potential.

Mike Tomlin is going to leave this team in worse shape than when he inherited it. His reputation was built in the first four years of his career, riding on Bill Cowher’s players and coaches. Like Steelers4Life and others have stated. Since then, what we’ve witnessed is a slow bleed a steady decline masked by occasional flashes, but ultimately a team drifting further from its potential.

It’s incredibly frustrating being a Steelers fan right now. The Texans racked up 8 sacks, yet our defense couldn’t manage a single one. The Bills were missing both starting tackles, and still we got gouged by basically two run plays. The output was absolutely pathetic, and to make matters worse, the team looked like it just gave up.

I’ve said before that the Steelers’ luck would be if the Giants wanted Mike Tomlin as their head coach. But let’s be honest Tomlin probably wouldn’t take that job, and the Giants would likely lean toward an offensive-minded hire anyway. What we saw yesterday was a coach who looked tired and old. The “Fire Tomlin” chant was well deserved, and I hope it shakes him to his core.

So, you are saying that Mike Tomlin is 100% responsible for all roster decisions? Bill Cowher too apparently?

Interesting. I didn't know that.

Dizzy, let’s not twist words. I never said Tomlin is 100% responsible for roster decisions, nor did I bring Bill Cowher into this. What I did say and stand by is that Tomlin has had significant influence over the team’s direction for well over a decade, and the results speak for themselves.

My point is about accountability: when you’re a defensive-minded coach with one of the league’s most expensive defenses, fans expect more than what we saw against the Bills. That’s not about Cowher, that’s not about absolutes it’s about the product on the field right now.

If you want to debate the actual argument, fine. But let’s keep it on track instead of inventing claims I didn’t make.

 

[5-ish Finkle]

Aren’t they getting old to boot?

They aren't getting old, they are old. And look to be aging in dog years by the week.

 

[Steeler]

It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

Disagree. The Bills had the K-Gun offense in the 90's. The Packers had elite QB play in Favre and Rodgers and threw the ball often. I"m sure there are other examples, but these immediately came to mind. So the weather doesn't matter that much.

 

[Steelers4Life]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

It is worse than you are making it out. The ownership is a huge problem. The fans have ridiculous expectations. It is a bad roster and going to be worse.

Fans don't have ridiculous expectations. Fans expect the team to try to contend, not to just be content stagnating at barely above .500 and being an afterthought in the playoffs.

I'd bet most fans would gladly take a year or two of real struggles if they showed even the slightest bit of urgency to make the team a contender again. I'd rather they try and fail than to just sit here hoping for 9 wins and #6 or #7 seed in the playoffs.

9 wins may win the division this year, but that doesn't change anything. It's still the same old Steelers.

So what's the plan? How do the Steelers get into a top-5 draft position? Who's the QB? Who's the coach?

I'd say that being in the top 5 isn't a must. It'd be nice, but I'll die on the hill that the Steelers should NOT have signed Rodgers this year and they should have traded Watt rather than signing him. This is a year they could've taken a huge step towards a high draft pick and a greater chance to draft one of the best available QBs. But, that doesn't mean good ones don't fall.... I just don't trust Tomlin or his staff to develop one.

As for exactly who the QB and coach would be? I'd leave that to much smarter people than me. But I'd rather they take a shot than stick with what this team has become.

 

[Steeler]

Fans don't have ridiculous expectations.

Agreed. Steeler fans get push back when we say we want to move on from Tomlin and I wonder how many other fans would be happy with the Steelers level of success in the last ~10 years. Only three playoff wins against backup QBs and multiple first round blowout loses gets tiresome. And we've collectively lost hope that things will change.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

The fan base is finally starting to catch up to where a lot of us have been on Tomlin for years now.

How many guys would still have a job if they only have 4 seasons out of 19 with a playoff win? Or 8+ years without a playoff win? Or 3 playoff wins in 15 years?

Ownership has been comfortable because the national media loves him and enough of the fan base supports him that 8, 9, or 10 wins has been enough. Now the national media has started picking up on it and the fans are getting more and more tired of the lack of discipline, declining performance, and lack of adjustments. It's been this way since 2011 after his run with Cowher's team, not just since Ben retired. The goodwill built from 2007 to 2010 is finally starting to wear out.

Losing 3 or 4 of the next 5 would finally start to put some real pressure on the team to change.

When Tomlin took over he did not take over a 3-13 team starting a rebuild.

When he took over they had all the pieces in place including a young franchise QB, and give credit he won with those pieces. That was 16 years ago.

Steelers remind me of the Detroit Red Wings after they won a few Stanley Cups and were on the decline, but still squeaked into the playoffs ever year. All we heard is 25 years in a row making the playoffs. Team did not say the last 10 they were knocked out in the first or second round.

I am sure Tomlin is a good coach but even he looks like he has lost the fire in his belly in Pitt. They will never fire him so he would have to resign. End up in the booth for a year then some team will pay him big to come back.

Really, ^this^ is all that matters. I said it many times... you either have THE quarterback, or you don't... and it's a crap shoot.

Fortunate to have had Big Ben, but also a little unfortunate that there were two better QBs (in the same conference division) during his entire career. I would put Ben on the tier with Philip Rivers (how many Super Bowls did Rivers get to?).

These guys don't grow on trees and for every five (5) "generational talents" coming out of college, it feels like... 2 bust, 2 are good (not great), and 1 actually lives up to the hype. Oh, and you have to be drafting top 10 to get a sniff at one (preferably top 5).

Look at MIN, CLE, and maybe LVR (the latter probably having a QB situation that the other 2 envy)... they have no hope... none. MIN self-inflicted (missed on the QB), CLE feels like they are paying 5-6 QBs on other rosters (or out of football), and LVR have an outdated HC that trusted his old buddy QB.

I would rank the Steelers QB room 4th worst behind these 3 teams. And I don't want to hear about "PIT has failed to develop any QBs" when we all know they haven't been in a position to draft one. If Rogers/Rudolph was part of the "Steelers are ALL IN" plan this off-season? Well, pretty easy to see how that was going to end up. Rudolph is a professional clipboard-holder and Rogers hasn't been Aaron Roger in maybe... 5 years? Combine that with a bunch of old dudes on defense... that's a 0.500 club at best.

If Tomlin gets fired, he's NYG's HC 2 minutes later and PIT is still the same mid-pack, no-QB-having team... like all the others in the NFL looking for the same thing.

edit: fixed per @steelcityman catch.

First off, Tomlin's mediocrity started a full 10 years before Ben retired. And Ben got hurt in 2019 but was still good in 2020. He gets a pass because they haven't had a franchise QB really since 2020, but Tomlin's teams only won 3 total playoff games (all against backup QBs) between 2011 and 2021.

Tomlin can lead top talent to contention and he can lead mediocre talent to 8 to 10 wins. He's a fine coach who benefitted from inherited a ready-made Super Bowl contender. But he's not someone who'll elevate what he has and his lack of any type of coaching tree after 19 years speaks to how well he develops assistants.

If Tomlin would be fired or quit and he ends up somewhere else, all the best to him. But unless he fundamentally changes his style, he can go be mediocre somewhere else and Id rather have the Steelers bring in an offensive mind to help compete in today's NFL.

OK, let's look at your last paragraph there... honest question: is the PIT job even attractive in today's NFL? It's a terrible roster and they're not going to lose enough games (again) to draft a QB. Ownership has not shown that they do not support a rebuild.

Is the fan base ready for a fresh, young first-time head coach out of college to oversee a tank season (or two) just to be in position to get the QB? It's an open air stadium situation in a bad weather zone... tough to build a Star Wars offense in that situation.

It is worse than you are making it out. The ownership is a huge problem. The fans have ridiculous expectations. It is a bad roster and going to be worse.

Fans don't have ridiculous expectations. Fans expect the team to try to contend, not to just be content stagnating at barely above .500 and being an afterthought in the playoffs.

I'd bet most fans would gladly take a year or two of real struggles if they showed even the slightest bit of urgency to make the team a contender again. I'd rather they try and fail than to just sit here hoping for 9 wins and #6 or #7 seed in the playoffs.

9 wins may win the division this year, but that doesn't change anything. It's still the same old Steelers.

So what's the plan? How do the Steelers get into a top-5 draft position? Who's the QB? Who's the coach?

I'd say that being in the top 5 isn't a must. It'd be nice, but I'll die on the hill that the Steelers should NOT have signed Rodgers this year and they should have traded Watt rather than signing him. This is a year they could've taken a huge step towards a high draft pick and a greater chance to draft one of the best available QBs. But, that doesn't mean good ones don't fall.... I just don't trust Tomlin or his staff to develop one.

As for exactly who the QB and coach would be? I'd leave that to much smarter people than me. But I'd rather they take a shot than stick with what this team has become.

Unless you can fire Rooney those kind o f decisions will be made in Pittsburgh. He has been very clear he is not OK rebuilding.

 

[Godsbrother]

Tomlin is a good coach but he needs to move on. The problem for us Steelers fans is that even when he moves on Art II will still be here.

Also no coach is going to have any success with the QBs the Steelers have been trotting out there.

They need a new man on top, a completely new coaching staff and a franchise quarterback.

 

[fred_1_15301]

Tomlin is a good coach but he needs to move on. The problem for us Steelers fans is that even when he moves on Art II will still be here.

Also no coach is going to have any success with the QBs the Steelers have been trotting out there.

They need a new man on top, a completely new coaching staff and a franchise quarterback.

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the importance of the 3 in order?

 

[Max55]

Tomlin is at risk of hurting his “legacy” if he doesn’t move on after this season.

The arrow is pointed down on the team and IMO will continue for next season or two, best case.

Why does he want to stay for the that?

The paycheck I guess.

 

[cdclopper]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

 

[irish eyes]

Tomlin is at risk of hurting his “legacy” if he doesn’t move on after this season.

The arrow is pointed down on the team and IMO will continue for next season or two, best case.

Why does he want to stay for the that?

The paycheck I guess.

Paycheck must be it because 99% of the city can't stand him anymore.

 

[Steelers4Life]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

19 years of coaching, including 15 years with a 1st ballot HOF QB

Only 4 years with a playoff win, 2 of which came with the roster he inherited.
8 straight years without a playoff win with a series of ugly losses
Only 2 seasons with a playoff win and only 3 total playoff wins in the past 15 years
Zero coaching tree

It's been a lot more than 3 or 4 years even if none of them can be considered "bad"

 

[fred_1_15301]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

19 years of coaching, including 15 years with a 1st ballot HOF QB

Only 4 years with a playoff win, 2 of which came with the roster he inherited.
8 straight years without a playoff win with a series of ugly losses
Only 2 seasons with a playoff win and only 3 total playoff wins in the past 15 years
Zero coaching tree

It's been a lot more than 3 or 4 years even if none of them can be considered "bad"

Tomlin apologists will live by the > .500 thing for ever. You won't be able to convince them that he's not an elite coach.

 

[cdclopper]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

19 years of coaching, including 15 years with a 1st ballot HOF QB

Only 4 years with a playoff win, 2 of which came with the roster he inherited.
8 straight years without a playoff win with a series of ugly losses
Only 2 seasons with a playoff win and only 3 total playoff wins in the past 15 years
Zero coaching tree

It's been a lot more than 3 or 4 years even if none of them can be considered "bad"

Tomlin apologists will live by the > .500 thing for ever. You won't be able to convince them that he's not an elite coach.

Those pesky Tomlin apologists. Have you tried complaining about him all the time? That might convince them.

 

[fred_1_15301]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

19 years of coaching, including 15 years with a 1st ballot HOF QB

Only 4 years with a playoff win, 2 of which came with the roster he inherited.
8 straight years without a playoff win with a series of ugly losses
Only 2 seasons with a playoff win and only 3 total playoff wins in the past 15 years
Zero coaching tree

It's been a lot more than 3 or 4 years even if none of them can be considered "bad"

Tomlin apologists will live by the > .500 thing for ever. You won't be able to convince them that he's not an elite coach.

Those pesky Tomlin apologists. Have you tried complaining about him all the time? That might convince them.

It's cool man. Feel free to bring some stats in here to support why Tomlin is an elite coach. God knows many of the posters in here have posted enough evidence to the contrary. But you can keep beating that drum of yours.

 

[Steelers4Life]

No matter who you are fans will want you gone at some point. You could even be the greatest coach of all time and they'll still call for your head after 3 or 4 bad seasons.

19 years of coaching, including 15 years with a 1st ballot HOF QB

Only 4 years with a playoff win, 2 of which came with the roster he inherited.
8 straight years without a playoff win with a series of ugly losses
Only 2 seasons with a playoff win and only 3 total playoff wins in the past 15 years
Zero coaching tree

It's been a lot more than 3 or 4 years even if none of them can be considered "bad"

Tomlin apologists will live by the > .500 thing for ever. You won't be able to convince them that he's not an elite coach.

There's quite literally nothing about his profile that would make him an elite coach. But, people invest emotionally in believing in someone and it's easier to just keep believing it based on their gut than to look at the situation and realize they were wrong.

Nobody says he's a bad coach. But aside from being quotable and having tenure with an organization like the Steelers, there's nothing about his profile that's anything more than pretty good, and some of it is downright bad. I mean, he won a Super Bowl with his inherited roster, but he's the only Super Bowl winning coach to lose 6 consecutive playoff games.... and we won't even talk about how awful the most recent performances have been.

If you take away his name and reputation and you just describe his "accomplishments" over the past 15 years, the only question someone would have is how he's been employed for 15 years unless the goal is to simply not suck.

 

[Drunken Cowboy]

Tomlin is a good coach but he needs to move on. The problem for us Steelers fans is that even when he moves on Art II will still be here.

Also no coach is going to have any success with the QBs the Steelers have been trotting out there.

They need a new man on top, a completely new coaching staff and a franchise quarterback.

I cannot imagine any new coach being anything but way worse,

 

[Steelers4Life]

Tomlin is a good coach but he needs to move on. The problem for us Steelers fans is that even when he moves on Art II will still be here.

Also no coach is going to have any success with the QBs the Steelers have been trotting out there.

They need a new man on top, a completely new coaching staff and a franchise quarterback.

I cannot imagine any new coach being anything but way worse,

Comments like this drive me nuts.

I'd bet heavily that a lot of coaches could've stepped into the situation Tomlin did in 2007, won for a few years, and then had little to no playoff success for the next 15 years. Not all of them, but a lot of them. But only in Pittsburgh is that worthy of unquestioned job safety.,

This idea that Tomlin has done something special is ridiculous. Not having a losing season is nice and all, but considering the talent that he's had to work with, it's not that much of an accomplishment and not nearly enough to outweigh his embarassing failures in the playoffs when his teams have shown up flat and gotten crushed, including and especially the defense.

 

[Godsbrother]

Tomlin is a good coach but he needs to move on. The problem for us Steelers fans is that even when he moves on Art II will still be here.

Also no coach is going to have any success with the QBs the Steelers have been trotting out there.

They need a new man on top, a completely new coaching staff and a franchise quarterback.

Out of curiosity, how would you rank the importance of the 3 in order?

Franchise quarterback is most important.

 

[Godsbrother]

Tomlin is at risk of hurting his “legacy” if he doesn’t move on after this season.

The arrow is pointed down on the team and IMO will continue for next season or two, best case.

Why does he want to stay for the that?

The paycheck I guess.

Paycheck must be it because 99% of the city can't stand him anymore.

I like Tomlin but think it is best for both he and the Steelers to part ways.