3-4 DBs and C2 Front Seven (1 Viewer)

[Tick]

In my elementary IDP mind, I have a split between the front seven and the back four.

I have a pretty good grasp on the effects on the front seven of various schemes, like the 3-4, 4-3, strong/weak vs. left/right, 46, Gregg Williams, and the current Baltimore defense.

In the defensive backfield, I have a handle on the effects of the Cover-2 and some small variations of the standard scheme where safeties are somewhat interchangeable.

The areas where my knowledge is lacking is in the effect of these schemes on the other group.

How does the Cover-2 affect LBs and DLs? Since there's a short zone, in a 4-3 I could see that maybe the MLB has more coverage duties while the WLB has none, which explains why people drool over seek-and-destroy WLBs in a 4-3 Cover 2. What are the effects on the linemen and SLB, though?

Also, I've never heard of a Cover-2 combined with a 3-4... why not?

How does a 3-4 affect DBs? I could see a few possible effects, but don't know what really happens.

Also, in a nickle situation, I have some questions...

In a 4-3, it seems that the worst LB in coverage comes off for an extra CB, and that sometimes they shift a DE to DT and put in a pass-rushing specialist DE (though sometimes that's the bad-covering LB who moves up to DE).

What happens in a 3-4? Same thing, where the weakest coverage LB leaves for a bonus CB? Do any changes happen along the line?

 

[coolnerd]

Also, I've never heard of a Cover-2 combined with a 3-4... why not?

What happens in a 3-4? Same thing, where the weakest coverage LB leaves for a bonus CB? Do any changes happen along the line?

I will attempt these two. 1) Under Capers/Fangio Houston attmepted used quite a bit of zone with thier 3/4 and on occassion (less than 20% IIRC) it was technnically cover 2. the biggest issue for 3-4 teams is the the LBs tend to be bigger more run stuffing type. There seems to be a bit of a natural hole for the TE or slot WR in the cover 2 and slow LBs will make the issue worse.

2) In the 3-4 most teams actually take out the NT. The two DEs slide down to DT and the OLBs play rush DE (this is why 3-4 teams take college rush ends and teach them to drop in coverage instead of taking OLB and hoping they can pass rush)

If it is the nickle package, you will have the two inside Lbers remaining. If a dime package, the less skilled pass defender of the ILBs will be replaced by the extra DB.

In other words as it is run now 3-4 base defense turn into 4 man fronts in passing situations.

 

[Jene Bramel]

In my elementary IDP mind, I have a split between the front seven and the back four.

I have a pretty good grasp on the effects on the front seven of various schemes, like the 3-4, 4-3, strong/weak vs. left/right, 46, Gregg Williams, and the current Baltimore defense.

In the defensive backfield, I have a handle on the effects of the Cover-2 and some small variations of the standard scheme where safeties are somewhat interchangeable.

The areas where my knowledge is lacking is in the effect of these schemes on the other group.

How does the Cover-2 affect LBs and DLs?  Since there's a short zone, in a 4-3 I could see that maybe the MLB has more coverage duties while the WLB has none, which explains why people drool over seek-and-destroy WLBs in a 4-3 Cover 2.  What are the effects on the linemen and SLB, though?

I've got a detailed article (with diagrams) that should be posted in the coming weeks about the Tampa-2 and its probable impact on the IDP world.

The short version:

The four man defensive line is responsible (in most Tampa-2 schemes) for putting the bulk of pressure on the quarterback. It is rare for the linebackers to blitz; more often the safeties or corners will come, if anyone. The Tampa-2 scheme uses a UT/DT alignment to help the ends here. Sapp and Coleman are penetrating, disruptive players with the purpose of shooting gaps and bringing pressure.

The three linebackers and two corners are responsible for the short and intermediate zones, with the middle backer dropping back to hedge against the soft zone between the safeties in the deep middle. In many cases this means the MLB isn't as close to the LOS as the typical 4-3 stack set. The scheme also looks to "spill" ballcarriers to the weak side. Both of those issues (plus the coverage stats the WLB picks up in the scheme) make the WLB many times just as valuable as the MLB. Briggs nearly as valuable as Urlacher, Nickerson less valuable than Brooks.

The SLB has the same issues in this front as a standard 4-3. Too many blockers, too little opportunity.

Also, I've never heard of a Cover-2 combined with a 3-4... why not?

You can. Just more difficult to get pressure from a three man defensive line...if you've got a dedicated rush LB, it'd work essentially the same way.

How does a 3-4 affect DBs?  I could see a few possible effects, but don't know what really happens.

It really doesn't affect the DBs much. The corners and safeties generally have the same responsiblities. It stands to reason that if there are two ILBs aligned in front to rack up tackles, it blunts the opportunity of the two safeties to make plays in run support. In reality, though, if you've got a stud safety with elite run stuffing or coverage skills like Rodney Harrison or Troy Polamalu, those limitations can be overcome.

Also, in a nickle situation, I have some questions...

In a 4-3, it seems that the worst LB in coverage comes off for an extra CB, and that sometimes they shift a DE to DT and put in a pass-rushing specialist DE (though sometimes that's the bad-covering LB who moves up to DE).

What happens in a 3-4?  Same thing, where the weakest coverage LB leaves for a bonus CB?  Do any changes happen along the line?

Pretty much the same thing. You want the best coverage players and the best personnel to rush the quarterback. As Coolnerd said, sometimes it involves dropping the NT, other times bringing in a second rush LB. The defensive backfield is handled like it would in other schemes.

 

[Tick]

Thanks for the help, guys. The gaps are slowly being filled in for me...