3 player keeper league (1 Viewer)

[george]

Not sure if this should be in the Assistant Coach forum or not. If so, feel free to move it. I joined a 3 player keeper league. I have about 5 maybe 6 players that could be considered keepers depending on others rosters. My possible keeprs:

QB-Palmer

RB-LJ, Westbrook

WR-Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, Houshmanzadeh.

My question is, since I've never played in keeper league before, I cant' decide what the value of players is. Since I can't keep them all, they have no value as of the August draft.

What kind of draft picks should I ask for when guys inquire about trading them Harrison or AJ? I've been offered a fifth round pick in next year's draft for Harrison. This seems low for Harrison, but reasonable for Houshmanzadeh. I would think a 1st or 2nd round pick for Harrison would be more reasonable. Am I right or off base?

Thoughts?

 

[Jeff Pasquino]

Not sure if this should be in the Assistant Coach forum or not. If so, feel free to move it. I joined a 3 player keeper league. I have about 5 maybe 6 players that could be considered keepers depending on others rosters. My possible keeprs:QB-PalmerRB-LJ, WestbrookWR-Marvin Harrison, Andre Johnson, Houshmanzadeh.My question is, since I've never played in keeper league before, I cant' decide what the value of players is. Since I can't keep them all, they have no value as of the August draft.What kind of draft picks should I ask for when guys inquire about trading them Harrison or AJ? I've been offered a fifth round pick in next year's draft for Harrison. This seems low for Harrison, but reasonable for Houshmanzadeh. I would think a 1st or 2nd round pick for Harrison would be more reasonable. Am I right or off base?Thoughts?

Take your top 3 guys and keep them, likely at least 2 RBs.Trade anyone that others would want to keep for whatever you can get. A 5th isn't bad (it's actually great if the first 3 rounds are your keepers, and you really start in the 4th).You're off base for a 1st round pick (which tells me that a 5th is a 5th).Determine what round your guys would be in a redraft, then subtract 3 rounds. If you think a lot of rooks will go early, subtract just 2 rounds as you'll leave room for about 1 round of rooks.You should keep LJ and Westbrook. If QBs score a ton, consider Palmer. Start 3 WRs and/or PPR, keep 1 WR.Trade the rest.Also bear in mind that anyone you don't keep will be available to draft, so anyone outside of Top 36 (assuming 12 teams) value is not worth keeping.(and yes, normally this is ACF fodder, but since we talked generally at first we can let it slide).

 

[george]

Determine what round your guys would be in a redraft, then subtract 3 rounds. If you think a lot of rooks will go early, subtract just 2 rounds as you'll leave room for about 1 round of rooks.

The 3 keepers are not being counted in the draft rounds. Everyone MUST keep 3. Does not count as a draft pick. So when I say 1st round pick, it is equivalent to a 4th round pick. THis is why I said I thought Harrison was worth a 1st or 2nd round pick (4/5th rounder). I could gain an extra draft pick and still keep AJohnson.

I do plan to keep 2 RBs and then it's more or less a toss up as to whether or not to keep Palmer/AJ/Harrison. Figure I deal whoever I can out of them to get some extra picks.

 

[Banger]

Determine what round your guys would be in a redraft, then subtract 3 rounds. If you think a lot of rooks will go early, subtract just 2 rounds as you'll leave room for about 1 round of rooks.

The 3 keepers are not being counted in the draft rounds. Everyone MUST keep 3. Does not count as a draft pick. So when I say 1st round pick, it is equivalent to a 4th round pick. THis is why I said I thought Harrison was worth a 1st or 2nd round pick (4/5th rounder). I could gain an extra draft pick and still keep AJohnson.

I do plan to keep 2 RBs and then it's more or less a toss up as to whether or not to keep Palmer/AJ/Harrison. Figure I deal whoever I can out of them to get some extra picks.

how many teams in the league? 10?

 

[H.K.]

how many teams in the league? 10?

Also, what is the scoring system and are there any costs related to keeping someone? i.e.- If you keep LJ, Westy & Palmer, does that mean other teams have the option to only keep one guy and get two picks before you're up?

 

[GregR_2]

I have a couple of leagues that keep 4 and I've spent some time educating new owners as to how to compute the value of a player/pick so they don't get rooked in their first year in the league.

Here's the explanation I find works best. Reduce the league in your mind to a regular redraft where round 1 is your first keeper, round 2 your second, round 3 your third, and what your league calls a first round pick would instead be a 4th, the first time you take a player.

Now start asking yourself what it costs you and costs the other guy for a given trade. Let's take Harrison and fill in some other details for the example. You're offering me Harrison, who if you don't trade, you lose with no compensation.

I have for arguments LT and SA who I'm keeping, and my third best is let's say a 4th round redraft WR. Maybe Roy Williams or the like. So I'm improving from Roy to Harrison at what would amount to my third round pick. My choice is: Get Harrison, or get Roy + the player I'd have selected with the pick I trade to you for Harrison.

Now if you're asking for what your league calls a 1st, which is actually a 4th round pick in redraft terms, the question is would you rather have Roy and another 4th round WR, or Harrison? Personally I'd probably rather take Roy and the 4th as there's a good chance one of my 2 WR scores comparable to Harrison just given the variation at the position, so I wouldn't do that trade if it were me. The other thing you said is a 5th, which in redraft terms is an 8th round pick. Yes, I'd probably trade Roy and an 8th for Harrison (especially if you throw a pick back in since you can't pick more players than fit on your roster anyway, no reason for you not to give one back).

The other factor to keep in mind though is that you get nothing if you don't trade the player. And the other if he's smart realizes this. So the realistic truth is that you will probably end up trading Harrison for less than he's worth in a straight redraft trade, because you are in a weaker bargaining position in most cases.

I've heard some people say if they can't get what they think is fair value they'll just hold onto a guy instead of dumping him for chicken feed, but I don't entirely agree with that. I wouldn't dump a player for absolutely nothing because I'd hurt my bargaining power down the road. But I would definitely move the player for someting that would help my team even if it was a good deal for the other guy. The goal you want if you're the one trading players is to get multiple teams involved to make a bidding war. If Harrison is worth a 5th in your league in trade, then if someone gets him for a 5th they still came out ahead, so you want to push teams to bid against each other for him.

But so to summarize that, the person getting the player has to view the trade as he's giving up 2 players... the one he would have kept, and the pick he's giving up for the guy he's getting. You only need to view it as the pick you're getting, unless you're trading away one of your 3 best and replacing a guy with a lesser player in your own keeper list. In which case you need to factor that drop off into your side.

 

[Banger]

I have a couple of leagues that keep 4 and I've spent some time educating new owners as to how to compute the value of a player/pick so they don't get rooked in their first year in the league.

Here's the explanation I find works best. Reduce the league in your mind to a regular redraft where round 1 is your first keeper, round 2 your second, round 3 your third, and what your league calls a first round pick would instead be a 4th, the first time you take a player.

Now start asking yourself what it costs you and costs the other guy for a given trade. Let's take Harrison and fill in some other details for the example. You're offering me Harrison, who if you don't trade, you lose with no compensation.

I have for arguments LT and SA who I'm keeping, and my third best is let's say a 4th round redraft WR. Maybe Roy Williams or the like. So I'm improving from Roy to Harrison at what would amount to my third round pick. My choice is: Get Harrison, or get Roy + the player I'd have selected with the pick I trade to you for Harrison.

Now if you're asking for what your league calls a 1st, which is actually a 4th round pick in redraft terms, the question is would you rather have Roy and another 4th round WR, or Harrison? Personally I'd probably rather take Roy and the 4th as there's a good chance one of my 2 WR scores comparable to Harrison just given the variation at the position, so I wouldn't do that trade if it were me. The other thing you said is a 5th, which in redraft terms is an 8th round pick. Yes, I'd probably trade Roy and an 8th for Harrison (especially if you throw a pick back in since you can't pick more players than fit on your roster anyway, no reason for you not to give one back).

The other factor to keep in mind though is that you get nothing if you don't trade the player. And the other if he's smart realizes this. So the realistic truth is that you will probably end up trading Harrison for less than he's worth in a straight redraft trade, because you are in a weaker bargaining position in most cases.

I've heard some people say if they can't get what they think is fair value they'll just hold onto a guy instead of dumping him for chicken feed, but I don't entirely agree with that. I wouldn't dump a player for absolutely nothing because I'd hurt my bargaining power down the road. But I would definitely move the player for someting that would help my team even if it was a good deal for the other guy. The goal you want if you're the one trading players is to get multiple teams involved to make a bidding war. If Harrison is worth a 5th in your league in trade, then if someone gets him for a 5th they still came out ahead, so you want to push teams to bid against each other for him.

But so to summarize that, the person getting the player has to view the trade as he's giving up 2 players... the one he would have kept, and the pick he's giving up for the guy he's getting. You only need to view it as the pick you're getting, unless you're trading away one of your 3 best and replacing a guy with a lesser player in your own keeper list. In which case you need to factor that drop off into your side.

On several occassions in leagues like that I was lowballed for good talent knowing I'd have to drop the player so I might as well take something right? Wrong. If I've got a decent draft pick I've dropped them hoping that I could redraft them or if nothing else someone would take that player therefore dropping a better player down to me. Totally agree with moving a player even if it's a good/better deal for them as long as you are getting something worth value. It's a balancing act.

 

[george]

Thanks guys.

12 team league. Pretty standard scoring. No ppr. 1/2/3/1/1/1 lineup. Everyone REQUIRED to keep 3.

So some guys will have to keep crappy players if they don't trade for a viable 3rd keeper.

 

[H.K.]

Thanks guys.12 team league. Pretty standard scoring. No ppr. 1/2/3/1/1/1 lineup. Everyone REQUIRED to keep 3.So some guys will have to keep crappy players if they don't trade for a viable 3rd keeper.

That helps clear things up. Keep your RB's and then make a choice between Palmer, Harrison or Johnson.The good news: You've got a great core to build off, so you are definitely in good shape no matter who you choose.When will you know who everyone else is keeping and your draft slot? Once you know that, you'll be able to mock what will be there for you when your turn arrives.If it were my team, I'd want to know what WR's and QB's will be available before my first pick, then make my decision. If your leaguemates are the types to wait on QB's, I'd toss Palmer back. If six or seven QB's are being kept, you may want to hang onto Palmer and then go best WR available in the first.

 

[toppshelff]

I've just asked a related question in Trader Joe's in Assistant Coach. Particularly about keeping to drop in hopes to pick back up with high draft picks...

 

[george]

That helps clear things up. Keep your RB's and then make a choice between Palmer, Harrison or Johnson.The good news: You've got a great core to build off, so you are definitely in good shape no matter who you choose.When will you know who everyone else is keeping and your draft slot? Once you know that, you'll be able to mock what will be there for you when your turn arrives.If it were my team, I'd want to know what WR's and QB's will be available before my first pick, then make my decision. If your leaguemates are the types to wait on QB's, I'd toss Palmer back. If six or seven QB's are being kept, you may want to hang onto Palmer and then go best WR available in the first.

Don't have to declare keepers until August so it's all specualtion right now. But I'm thinking I could live with either Palmer or Harrison as my 3rd keeper. Figure I can get the other spot filled with one of my first two picks as RB should be covered. Just trying to see if I was being greedy askign for a 4/5th round pick for Harrison. Looks like I'm being reasonable, but guys are reluctant to trade high picks so I may try to move Housh for a 6/7th round pick. Thanks again. And I'llcheck out the trade forum thread of Joes'

 

[Nemesis]

Don't have to declare keepers until August so it's all specualtion right now. But I'm thinking I could live with either Palmer or Harrison as my 3rd keeper. Figure I can get the other spot filled with one of my first two picks as RB should be covered. Just trying to see if I was being greedy askign for a 4/5th round pick for Harrison. Looks like I'm being reasonable, but guys are reluctant to trade high picks so I may try to move Housh for a 6/7th round pick. Thanks again. And I'llcheck out the trade forum thread of Joes'

I run a league EXACTLY like this. A 5th for Harrison is too low.......and a 6/7th for TJHoush is also way too low.One thing that I'd try: Trade Harrison or TJHoush by asking for their 3rd rounder.........but you give them YOUR 7th rounder. See what they say. If they won't budge at all you may sweeten it by offering your 6th rounder. Using this strategy gives you more options.Also, I recently made this trade before the 2006 draft. I had 3 good RBs (SJ, Edge, and Westbrook)........could only start 2 (no flex).So I tried to find a trading partner and couldn't work out a 2 team trade but was close with 2 different suitors. So, I brokered a 3-way deal:I sent Westbrook to Team BTeam B sent a 2007 3rd rounder to Team CTeam C sent Boldin to me