49ers want to bring in a veteran QB (1 Viewer)

[gbill2004]

After Alex Smith struggled mightily, the Sacramento Bee reports that head coach Jim Harbaugh said that the 49ers would bring in a veteran QB, "if the right person becmes available".

Any chance this veteran might be Carson Palmer? Maybe a trade for Kyle Orton?

 

[Sudoku_in_the_Bathtub]

They could bring in Josh Johnson tomorrow & he'd be better than what they have now.

 

[Dinsy Ejotuz]

It's usually good to add something like 'wild-eyed, baseless speculation' when you post a thread title like this one.

 

[trader jake]

It's usually good to add something like 'wild-eyed, baseless speculation' when you post a thread title like this one.

Gotta agree with this. The OP seems to conveniently forget that the Bengals seem far, far away from even approaching other teams in trade talks. If Mike Brown wanted to trade Palmer away he would have done so a few weeks ago. Carson isn't going anywhere.

 

[3 hour lunch]

It's usually good to add something like 'wild-eyed, baseless speculation' when you post a thread title like this one.

Gotta agree with this. The OP seems to conveniently forget that the Bengals seem far, far away from even approaching other teams in trade talks. If Mike Brown wanted to trade Palmer away he would have done so a few weeks ago. Carson isn't going anywhere.

Agree, the thread title is ridiculous. Please update.

 

[notdarkyet]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

 

[Papa Georgio]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

What do owners gain by taking this stance? What do players gain by taking this stance? If I had a player that didn't want to be on my team I would gladly ship him somewhere else. Plus at least I get something in return and by the looks of it Cincy needs lots of holes filled. This situation stinks on both sides of stubborn pride.

 

[jon_mx]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

You would not think, but stranger things have happened. It makes sense for Palmer to end up in SF.

 

[notdarkyet]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

What do owners gain by taking this stance? What do players gain by taking this stance? If I had a player that didn't want to be on my team I would gladly ship him somewhere else. Plus at least I get something in return and by the looks of it Cincy needs lots of holes filled. This situation stinks on both sides of stubborn pride.

The problem is you are not a giant jackass (presumably). Mike Brown would rather win the battle of wills than playoff games. Mikey doesn't like to be given ultimatums. Look at Chad. Threw a hissy fit for half a season and an offseason demanding to be traded. The Bengals were offered Dan Snyder's soul, with the option for his son's soul the following year and turned it down. Why? Mikey wasn't going to let Chad dictate how he ran his team. So he held onto Chad, eeked out a playoff appearance, got a pathetic year the following year and got Bill Belichick's sweaty sock for his trouble. Mikey was happy, because Chad was gone on his terms, not Chad's. If Carson wouldn't have gone public there might have been a slight chance that Mikey would have moved him. Since he threw out the ultimatum, Mikey will not budge, especially not before he teaches Carson a lesson (in his feeble mind).

I have said all along they shouldn't trade Carson because Carson wants to be traded. They should trade him because he is so underperforming on his contract that he would be doing the Bengals a favor. They should trade him because the WRs will be less likely to be assasinated on account of his throws being 3 feet above the WR's head going across the middle. They should trade him because after being in the league as a starting "franchise" QB for 7 years and still has the leadership skills of my left nut.

Screw Mike Brown.

Screw Marvin Lewis.

And screw Carson Palmer's quitter ###.

 

[baconisgood]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

What do owners gain by taking this stance? What do players gain by taking this stance? If I had a player that didn't want to be on my team I would gladly ship him somewhere else. Plus at least I get something in return and by the looks of it Cincy needs lots of holes filled. This situation stinks on both sides of stubborn pride.

The Bengals are one of the worst organizations in sports. They are surviving only on the basis of having control over draft picks that the cartel allows them. If they start granting trades they will be left with a bunch of 4th round draft picks and no team.

 

[notdarkyet]

Mike Brown will not trade Carson Palmer. /thread

You would not think, but stranger things have happened. It makes sense for Palmer to end up in SF.

It makes sense for any competent NFL owner. Hell most casual fans can figure this one out. We got Mikey. I'm still convinced his mom hooked up with a mentally handicapped milk man. I demand a DNA test, no way in hell he is related to Paul.

 

[Couch Potato]

Maybe Joe Montana or Steve Young might want to make a comeback.

 

[bicycle_seat_sniffer]

lock this thread, nothing to see here.

 

[[scooter]]

I have said all along they shouldn't trade Carson because Carson wants to be traded. They should trade him because he is so underperforming on his contract that he would be doing the Bengals a favor. They should trade him because the WRs will be less likely to be assasinated on account of his throws being 3 feet above the WR's head going across the middle. They should trade him because after being in the league as a starting "franchise" QB for 7 years and still has the leadership skills of my left nut.

They should trade him because there's a chance he could report on September 8th and cost the team $11 million dollars.

 

[notdarkyet]

I have said all along they shouldn't trade Carson because Carson wants to be traded. They should trade him because he is so underperforming on his contract that he would be doing the Bengals a favor. They should trade him because the WRs will be less likely to be assasinated on account of his throws being 3 feet above the WR's head going across the middle. They should trade him because after being in the league as a starting "franchise" QB for 7 years and still has the leadership skills of my left nut.

They should trade him because there's a chance he could report on September 8th and cost the team $11 million dollars.

And look at that, a perfectly good reason to not be anywhere near the cap. Mikey wins either way.

 

[FUBAR]

They could bring in Josh Johnson tomorrow & he'd be better than what they have now.

So would Jim Harbaugh.

 

[Anonymous Internet User]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

 

[5Rings]

5rings said that he "would sleep with Jessica Alba if she became available."

 

[Sweet Love]

I am on a mobile, but just read as per Rotoworld, they are bringing in culpepper on Monday to "kick the tires"...no word yet whether that means look at him or literally kick him in the spare tire around his waist.

 

[drummer]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

 

[Sweetness_34]

For the Bengals fans crying about the Palmer situation, I for one am thrilled that some owner has the balls to take this stance. Enough of this nonsense. Once a player WILLINGLY SIGNS A CONTRACT, the only option is you finish that contract. Or you park your sorry behind on the bench and stay there and sulk as long as the contract is valid. Period. By taking this stance, hopefully the Bengals ae sending a clear message to the remaining players that we will not be hostage to any single player. This is the ultimate team sport and about time someone did that. I also applaud the SD GM for taking the same approach with VJax. Screw these overpaid, elitist players who feel they are entitled to anything more than the CONTRACT THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED. I wish more owners and GMs across the league took a stance like this. I have no problem if a team wants to extend a contract and reward a player when he is in the final year of his deal and he seems to be a player that has performed well. But again, that should be the team's prerogative and their decision to make. Not a decision that is FORCED upon them. Again, the original contract was signed by both parties WILLINGLY. The Player always has the option to leave in FA if he feels insulted that the team did not extend his contract before it expired. Of course, for a whiny beotch like Palmer who is getting paid handsomely and is over-paid given how much he sukks for a "franchise" Qb, I hope the Bengals let him rot. Even if he decides to come back, I hope they park his ### on the bench and keep him there until his contract expires and get the Dalton era going.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

 

[FUBAR]

For the Bengals fans crying about the Palmer situation, I for one am thrilled that some owner has the balls to take this stance. Enough of this nonsense. Once a player WILLINGLY SIGNS A CONTRACT, the only option is you finish that contract. Or you park your sorry behind on the bench and stay there and sulk as long as the contract is valid. Period. By taking this stance, hopefully the Bengals ae sending a clear message to the remaining players that we will not be hostage to any single player. This is the ultimate team sport and about time someone did that. I also applaud the SD GM for taking the same approach with VJax. Screw these overpaid, elitist players who feel they are entitled to anything more than the CONTRACT THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED. I wish more owners and GMs across the league took a stance like this. I have no problem if a team wants to extend a contract and reward a player when he is in the final year of his deal and he seems to be a player that has performed well. But again, that should be the team's prerogative and their decision to make. Not a decision that is FORCED upon them. Again, the original contract was signed by both parties WILLINGLY. The Player always has the option to leave in FA if he feels insulted that the team did not extend his contract before it expired. Of course, for a whiny beotch like Palmer who is getting paid handsomely and is over-paid given how much he sukks for a "franchise" Qb, I hope the Bengals let him rot. Even if he decides to come back, I hope they park his ### on the bench and keep him there until his contract expires and get the Dalton era going.

Both parties should be held to the same standard.

 

[Couch Potato]

Alex Smith has played in 23 games the last 2 seasons. Prorate his numbers for 16 games and they would be:

3283-22-15 with 60.0% completions

Not making the Pro Bowl with those numbers, but I'm guessing most who read this are surprised and think they'd be much worse, especially the TD-INT ratio.

Last year Jay Cutler was:

3274-23-16 with 60.4% completions (15 games)

 

[drummer]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

The 49ers have been complacent @ QB ever since they drafted Smith, even before that. Even though Smith has never proven effective, he always had the benefit of someone having his back in the FO, and the word around the campfire is that Jed is that guy. Jed thinks that after all Smith has been through with OC's (3 of them with SB rings, off-season and regular) that Harbaugh is the guy that can fix him. The problem is that failure with this team will always be in the back of Smith's mind, and he plays like it. The best thing for both the team and Smith was to part ways, and the 49ers could have gotten a better stop gap QB than Smith. Spare me the whole background machinations and "Sins of the Father" BS. I follow this team very closely. The 49ers have an absurd QB situation. If Smith got injured or plays like same old Alex Smith, then all you have is a Rook who is nowhere close to being ready to start an NFL game, and 2 other scrubs. Smith doesn't have the tools or mindset to run a dynamic NFL offense. To have him as a stop gap for one year is very short sighted being that the rest of the offense will suffer.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. So you can spare the flippant attitude.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

For the Bengals fans crying about the Palmer situation, I for one am thrilled that some owner has the balls to take this stance. Enough of this nonsense. Once a player WILLINGLY SIGNS A CONTRACT, the only option is you finish that contract. Or you park your sorry behind on the bench and stay there and sulk as long as the contract is valid. Period. By taking this stance, hopefully the Bengals ae sending a clear message to the remaining players that we will not be hostage to any single player. This is the ultimate team sport and about time someone did that. I also applaud the SD GM for taking the same approach with VJax. Screw these overpaid, elitist players who feel they are entitled to anything more than the CONTRACT THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED. I wish more owners and GMs across the league took a stance like this. I have no problem if a team wants to extend a contract and reward a player when he is in the final year of his deal and he seems to be a player that has performed well. But again, that should be the team's prerogative and their decision to make. Not a decision that is FORCED upon them. Again, the original contract was signed by both parties WILLINGLY. The Player always has the option to leave in FA if he feels insulted that the team did not extend his contract before it expired. Of course, for a whiny beotch like Palmer who is getting paid handsomely and is over-paid given how much he sukks for a "franchise" Qb, I hope the Bengals let him rot. Even if he decides to come back, I hope they park his ### on the bench and keep him there until his contract expires and get the Dalton era going.

Totally agree. I mean, sure a team can cut a player if they want to. And nevermind the whole idea of making lemonade from lemons. There's no need to make the best of a bad situation. And of course there's the fact he really isn't that good so trading him would free up cap space and give your rookie quarterback a chance to shine. I mean, it would help improve your football team but it would come at the expense of sending the right message. And a high quality organization with a sterling reputation like the Bengals needs to keep doing what they can to draw free agents. What better way to draw in free agents than to show you treat them like crap? Carson Palmer is the first and only player to become disgusted with the Cincinnati franchise.

 

[drummer]

Alex Smith has played in 23 games the last 2 seasons. Prorate his numbers for 16 games and they would be:3283-22-15 with 60.0% completionsNot making the Pro Bowl with those numbers, but I'm guessing most who read this are surprised and think they'd be much worse, especially the TD-INT ratio.Last year Jay Cutler was:3274-23-16 with 60.4% completions (15 games)

Those numbers don't explain the book on Smith. A lot of TD's came from when they were behind by 2 or more TD's, and a lot of them came in the second half of a game to which they still lost.

 

[Short Corner]

For the Bengals fans crying about the Palmer situation, I for one am thrilled that some owner has the balls to take this stance. Enough of this nonsense. Once a player WILLINGLY SIGNS A CONTRACT, the only option is you finish that contract. Or you park your sorry behind on the bench and stay there and sulk as long as the contract is valid. Period. By taking this stance, hopefully the Bengals ae sending a clear message to the remaining players that we will not be hostage to any single player. This is the ultimate team sport and about time someone did that. I also applaud the SD GM for taking the same approach with VJax. Screw these overpaid, elitist players who feel they are entitled to anything more than the CONTRACT THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED. I wish more owners and GMs across the league took a stance like this. I have no problem if a team wants to extend a contract and reward a player when he is in the final year of his deal and he seems to be a player that has performed well. But again, that should be the team's prerogative and their decision to make. Not a decision that is FORCED upon them. Again, the original contract was signed by both parties WILLINGLY. The Player always has the option to leave in FA if he feels insulted that the team did not extend his contract before it expired. Of course, for a whiny beotch like Palmer who is getting paid handsomely and is over-paid given how much he sukks for a "franchise" Qb, I hope the Bengals let him rot. Even if he decides to come back, I hope they park his ### on the bench and keep him there until his contract expires and get the Dalton era going.

Right. The Bengals are certainly showing him.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

The 49ers have been complacent @ QB ever since they drafted Smith, even before that. Even though Smith has never proven effective, he always had the benefit of someone having his back in the FO, and the word around the campfire is that Jed is that guy. Jed thinks that after all Smith has been through with OC's (3 of them with SB rings, off-season and regular) that Harbaugh is the guy that can fix him. The problem is that failure with this team will always be in the back of Smith's mind, and he plays like it. The best thing for both the team and Smith was to part ways, and the 49ers could have gotten a better stop gap QB than Smith. Spare me the whole background machinations and "Sins of the Father" BS. I follow this team very closely. The 49ers have an absurd QB situation. If Smith got injured or plays like same old Alex Smith, then all you have is a Rook who is nowhere close to being ready to start an NFL game, and 2 other scrubs. Smith doesn't have the tools or mindset to run a dynamic NFL offense. To have him as a stop gap for one year is very short sighted being that the rest of the offense will suffer.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. So you can spare the flippant attitude.

It's great you've been a fan for decades. If you follow this team closely you'll be aware of the fact Jed York became President after the 2008 season. That means Alex Smith was drafted 3 years before he took over. You'll also be aware of the fact Jed is very close to Eddie DeBartolo (his uncle) and has shown signs of growth and learning. He's brought in the best coach he could and has had a good offseason despite a slow start. There is no need to start noting how complacent the Niners have been with their quarterback situation. But since you insist on bringing it up let's point out Jeff Garcia was their quarterback through the 2003 season. No Niner fan should need a reminder how good that guy was but I'll be happy to educate you if need be. They drafted a quarterback with the first overall pick in 2005. Wow, look at all those years of being complacent!

I badly wanted them to trade away whatever it took to get Cutler from the Broncos. That didn't happen. At this point I'm not going to scream and shout against any moves the team makes. They've made lots of mistakes worth criticizing. Doesn't mean they are unable to make good decisions moving forward.

You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. What would you have had this team do instead? Trade for Orton? Kolb? Sign...? I'm no Alex Smith supporter. I doubt you can find any posts where I've said anything more than mediocrity is his upside. But the offseason was a mess and left the team with limited options.

I don't really care if they suck for Luck this year. I would appreciate it if you would explain how saying it's okay to suck for one year if it means we can land the next Peyton Manning is a short sighted approach.

 

[drummer]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

The 49ers have been complacent @ QB ever since they drafted Smith, even before that. Even though Smith has never proven effective, he always had the benefit of someone having his back in the FO, and the word around the campfire is that Jed is that guy. Jed thinks that after all Smith has been through with OC's (3 of them with SB rings, off-season and regular) that Harbaugh is the guy that can fix him. The problem is that failure with this team will always be in the back of Smith's mind, and he plays like it. The best thing for both the team and Smith was to part ways, and the 49ers could have gotten a better stop gap QB than Smith. Spare me the whole background machinations and "Sins of the Father" BS. I follow this team very closely. The 49ers have an absurd QB situation. If Smith got injured or plays like same old Alex Smith, then all you have is a Rook who is nowhere close to being ready to start an NFL game, and 2 other scrubs. Smith doesn't have the tools or mindset to run a dynamic NFL offense. To have him as a stop gap for one year is very short sighted being that the rest of the offense will suffer.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. So you can spare the flippant attitude.

It's great you've been a fan for decades. If you follow this team closely you'll be aware of the fact Jed York became President after the 2008 season. That means Alex Smith was drafted 3 years before he took over. You'll also be aware of the fact Jed is very close to Eddie DeBartolo (his uncle) and has shown signs of growth and learning. He's brought in the best coach he could and has had a good offseason despite a slow start. There is no need to start noting how complacent the Niners have been with their quarterback situation. But since you insist on bringing it up let's point out Jeff Garcia was their quarterback through the 2003 season. No Niner fan should need a reminder how good that guy was but I'll be happy to educate you if need be. They drafted a quarterback with the first overall pick in 2005. Wow, look at all those years of being complacent!

I badly wanted them to trade away whatever it took to get Cutler from the Broncos. That didn't happen. At this point I'm not going to scream and shout against any moves the team makes. They've made lots of mistakes worth criticizing. Doesn't mean they are unable to make good decisions moving forward.

You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. What would you have had this team do instead? Trade for Orton? Kolb? Sign...? I'm no Alex Smith supporter. I doubt you can find any posts where I've said anything more than mediocrity is his upside. But the offseason was a mess and left the team with limited options.

I don't really care if they suck for Luck this year. I would appreciate it if you would explain how saying it's okay to suck for one year if it means we can land the next Peyton Manning is a short sighted approach.

This is what I mean by you being flippant. If I may do the same in return, you do realize that Jed and Co promoted Singletary, and released Shaun Hill, don't you? BTW, most fans want the 49ers to try and swing a trade for Josh Johnson, who played under Harbaugh in San Diego.

Being complacent is jettisoning any sort of competition (Rattay, Hill) and hiring a Vet like Dilfer to mentor him. Now, why don't we go down a list of 49er QB's since 2005:

05: Rattay, Smith, Dorsey, Pickett

06: Smith, Hill, Dilfer

07: Smith, Dilfer, Hill, Weinke

08: Hill, JT O'Sullivan, Jaime Martin

09: Hill, Smith, Nate Davis

10: Smith, Carr, Troy Smith

11: Smith, Kaep, Masoli, Bethel-Thompson

You did see Carr's name in this, didn't you?

ETA: somewhere in these years you saw a smiling Jesse Palmer taking a pic on the sideline in a 49er Uni during pre-season. Just in case you forgot that one.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

The 49ers have been complacent @ QB ever since they drafted Smith, even before that. Even though Smith has never proven effective, he always had the benefit of someone having his back in the FO, and the word around the campfire is that Jed is that guy. Jed thinks that after all Smith has been through with OC's (3 of them with SB rings, off-season and regular) that Harbaugh is the guy that can fix him. The problem is that failure with this team will always be in the back of Smith's mind, and he plays like it. The best thing for both the team and Smith was to part ways, and the 49ers could have gotten a better stop gap QB than Smith. Spare me the whole background machinations and "Sins of the Father" BS. I follow this team very closely. The 49ers have an absurd QB situation. If Smith got injured or plays like same old Alex Smith, then all you have is a Rook who is nowhere close to being ready to start an NFL game, and 2 other scrubs. Smith doesn't have the tools or mindset to run a dynamic NFL offense. To have him as a stop gap for one year is very short sighted being that the rest of the offense will suffer.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. So you can spare the flippant attitude.

It's great you've been a fan for decades. If you follow this team closely you'll be aware of the fact Jed York became President after the 2008 season. That means Alex Smith was drafted 3 years before he took over. You'll also be aware of the fact Jed is very close to Eddie DeBartolo (his uncle) and has shown signs of growth and learning. He's brought in the best coach he could and has had a good offseason despite a slow start. There is no need to start noting how complacent the Niners have been with their quarterback situation. But since you insist on bringing it up let's point out Jeff Garcia was their quarterback through the 2003 season. No Niner fan should need a reminder how good that guy was but I'll be happy to educate you if need be. They drafted a quarterback with the first overall pick in 2005. Wow, look at all those years of being complacent!

I badly wanted them to trade away whatever it took to get Cutler from the Broncos. That didn't happen. At this point I'm not going to scream and shout against any moves the team makes. They've made lots of mistakes worth criticizing. Doesn't mean they are unable to make good decisions moving forward.

You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. What would you have had this team do instead? Trade for Orton? Kolb? Sign...? I'm no Alex Smith supporter. I doubt you can find any posts where I've said anything more than mediocrity is his upside. But the offseason was a mess and left the team with limited options.

I don't really care if they suck for Luck this year. I would appreciate it if you would explain how saying it's okay to suck for one year if it means we can land the next Peyton Manning is a short sighted approach.

This is what I mean by you being flippant. If I may do the same in return, you do realize that Jed and Co promoted Singletary, and released Shaun Hill, don't you? BTW, most fans want the 49ers to try and swing a trade for Josh Johnson, who played under Harbaugh in San Diego.

Being complacent is jettisoning any sort of competition (Rattay, Hill) and hiring a Vet like Dilfer to mentor him. Now, why don't we go down a list of 49er QB's since 2005:

05: Rattay, Smith, Dorsey, Pickett

06: Smith, Hill, Dilfer

07: Smith, Dilfer, Hill, Weinke

08: Hill, JT O'Sullivan, Jaime Martin

09: Hill, Smith, Nate Davis

10: Smith, Carr, Troy Smith

11: Smith, Kaep, Masoli, Bethel-Thompson

You did see Carr's name in this, didn't you?

ETA: somewhere in these years you saw a smiling Jesse Palmer taking a pic on the sideline in a 49er Uni during pre-season. Just in case you forgot that one.

My initial response to yours was in no way flippant. I made a few comments none of which were lacking your ever so desired respect.. In your zeal to show off your awesomeness you felt the need to dismiss my post by claiming I was being flippant and stating how long you've been a fan. Then you proceeded to state numerous false statements would be excusable by anyone who hasn't been a fan since the 70's. Re-read your initial response. If you still don't think you overreacted you can pound sand. You for whatever reason took offense to me stating Jed York is not the same as John York and the team's options were limited in the offseason. From that point forward you decided to start complaining the team should have handled things differently. I asked what they should have done differently and you've managed to dodge the question.

First, let's address your Singletary comment. He replaced the trainwreck that was Mike Nolan halfway through the season. He led the team to a 5-4 record. There were several reports management wanted to hire Holmgren. But Singletary had fan support and he did lead the team to a 5-4 record. They gave him a chance. Not too many people were opposed to this move. Heck, even on this board the Singletary supports were popping up all over the place. You think they shouldn't have given him a shot?

Second, Shaun Hill was not released by the Niners as you claim. He was traded. It was a move criticized by many. I won't defend that move. It was a dumb decision.

Let's move on to Alex Smith.

He was drafted in 2005. Should they have replaced him that season? The answer of course is no.

His second season he threw for nearly 3,000 yards while heaving 16 touchdowns against 16 interceptions. His qb rating was 74.8. Should they have cut ties with the guy after the season? Again, the answer is no. Unless you're an idiot.

In his third season he was injured early in the year. He had a very public feud with Mike Nolan. Nolan insisted Alex Smith was healthy enough to play. Alex Smith said repeatedly he was not healthy enough to play and his injury was affecting his accuracy. Alex Smith later had surgery on the shoulder, showing Mike Nolan was a moron.

So, after three years you have a guy who played a terrible 9 game stretch his rookie season, a promising second year, and an injury plagued third year. Rolling with Hill would have been a good idea but I don't fault those who still thought Alex Smith offered hope.

In his fourth year he was placed on IR early in the season after it was revealed his previous surgery caused more problems. Another year out the window.

I'm supposed to fault a team for not bailing on the kid after all that? A backup plan would have been smart but I completely understand why it was felt he still had potential. Nearly half of his career to that point was spent being injured.

2009 - his fifth year in the league - finally showed us what we had suspected. Alex Smith is a bust, and not because of injuries.

Who really cares what the fans want? Harbaugh is expected to be a good coach. As such, he deserves our trust. The fact he hasn't traded for some backup who used to play under him shows he must not think the player is as good as fans think.

Suck for Luck is an excellent strategy and one I'm totally on board with. If Kaepernick (or some other qb) steps up before that time it's a win for the team and fans as a whole. But I am again interested in hearing you explain how aiming to get Andrew Luck is a short sighted move.

Josh Johnson in his limited career has thrown 8 interceptions against 4 touchdowns. His qb rating is a impressive 56.9! I'd love to hear how you believe this former 5th round draft pick is worth trading for.

 

[saintfool]

i'm not prepared to bury smith after a single preseason game. no one on offense was prepared. the difference between the saints and 49ers is the experience. new coach, system, rehabbing players, etc all seemed a little surprised by the saints aggressiveness on defense in the game. they seemed to treat it as a scrimmage - some admitting they weren't ready - while the saints treated it differently. smith is on *very* thin ice but he still has time here. CK might be pressed into duty earlier than harbaugh wanted.

 

[drummer]

didn't they already pay Alex Smith with a new contract for this season? it doesn't make any sense that they would now, after one preseason appearance, abandon that idea. they have 5 years of tape on this guy, they knew what they were getting. if they wanted a veteran QB as their starter they would have let Smith go in FA and gone after McNabb.

Smith has a 1 year deal for 5 Mil. They know what they have. The problem is the FO is too stubborn and stupid to give up on him (Hi Jed!).

That's not it at all. The options were rather limited. They drafted a promising qb in the second round. The mess that was this offseason really hurt their chances to make any moves. And what would you have had them do? It's not like they could trade for Peyton Manning. Kolb? Lots of skeptics about his game but I could get behind that gamble. Aside from that...what? Trade for Orton? Please no. I am totally behind the return of Alex Smith for one last year. If Kaepernick is a good rookie who hits the ground running it's great. If Alex Smith morphs into a quality qb it's great. If Alex Smith plays like Alex Smith the team will be in the running for Andrew Luck.Jed has done a fine job this offseason and I think he's shaping up to be a good owner. Don't confuse the son with the father.

The 49ers have been complacent @ QB ever since they drafted Smith, even before that. Even though Smith has never proven effective, he always had the benefit of someone having his back in the FO, and the word around the campfire is that Jed is that guy. Jed thinks that after all Smith has been through with OC's (3 of them with SB rings, off-season and regular) that Harbaugh is the guy that can fix him. The problem is that failure with this team will always be in the back of Smith's mind, and he plays like it. The best thing for both the team and Smith was to part ways, and the 49ers could have gotten a better stop gap QB than Smith. Spare me the whole background machinations and "Sins of the Father" BS. I follow this team very closely. The 49ers have an absurd QB situation. If Smith got injured or plays like same old Alex Smith, then all you have is a Rook who is nowhere close to being ready to start an NFL game, and 2 other scrubs. Smith doesn't have the tools or mindset to run a dynamic NFL offense. To have him as a stop gap for one year is very short sighted being that the rest of the offense will suffer.

I've been a fan since the late 70's. So you can spare the flippant attitude.

It's great you've been a fan for decades. If you follow this team closely you'll be aware of the fact Jed York became President after the 2008 season. That means Alex Smith was drafted 3 years before he took over. You'll also be aware of the fact Jed is very close to Eddie DeBartolo (his uncle) and has shown signs of growth and learning. He's brought in the best coach he could and has had a good offseason despite a slow start. There is no need to start noting how complacent the Niners have been with their quarterback situation. But since you insist on bringing it up let's point out Jeff Garcia was their quarterback through the 2003 season. No Niner fan should need a reminder how good that guy was but I'll be happy to educate you if need be. They drafted a quarterback with the first overall pick in 2005. Wow, look at all those years of being complacent!

I badly wanted them to trade away whatever it took to get Cutler from the Broncos. That didn't happen. At this point I'm not going to scream and shout against any moves the team makes. They've made lots of mistakes worth criticizing. Doesn't mean they are unable to make good decisions moving forward.

You didn't answer my question so I'll ask it again. What would you have had this team do instead? Trade for Orton? Kolb? Sign...? I'm no Alex Smith supporter. I doubt you can find any posts where I've said anything more than mediocrity is his upside. But the offseason was a mess and left the team with limited options.

I don't really care if they suck for Luck this year. I would appreciate it if you would explain how saying it's okay to suck for one year if it means we can land the next Peyton Manning is a short sighted approach.

This is what I mean by you being flippant. If I may do the same in return, you do realize that Jed and Co promoted Singletary, and released Shaun Hill, don't you? BTW, most fans want the 49ers to try and swing a trade for Josh Johnson, who played under Harbaugh in San Diego.

Being complacent is jettisoning any sort of competition (Rattay, Hill) and hiring a Vet like Dilfer to mentor him. Now, why don't we go down a list of 49er QB's since 2005:

05: Rattay, Smith, Dorsey, Pickett

06: Smith, Hill, Dilfer

07: Smith, Dilfer, Hill, Weinke

08: Hill, JT O'Sullivan, Jaime Martin

09: Hill, Smith, Nate Davis

10: Smith, Carr, Troy Smith

11: Smith, Kaep, Masoli, Bethel-Thompson

You did see Carr's name in this, didn't you?

ETA: somewhere in these years you saw a smiling Jesse Palmer taking a pic on the sideline in a 49er Uni during pre-season. Just in case you forgot that one.

My initial response to yours was in no way flippant. I made a few comments none of which were lacking your ever so desired respect.. In your zeal to show off your awesomeness you felt the need to dismiss my post by claiming I was being flippant and stating how long you've been a fan. Then you proceeded to state numerous false statements would be excusable by anyone who hasn't been a fan since the 70's. Re-read your initial response. If you still don't think you overreacted you can pound sand. You for whatever reason took offense to me stating Jed York is not the same as John York and the team's options were limited in the offseason. From that point forward you decided to start complaining the team should have handled things differently. I asked what they should have done differently and you've managed to dodge the question.

First, let's address your Singletary comment. He replaced the trainwreck that was Mike Nolan halfway through the season. He led the team to a 5-4 record. There were several reports management wanted to hire Holmgren. But Singletary had fan support and he did lead the team to a 5-4 record. They gave him a chance. Not too many people were opposed to this move. Heck, even on this board the Singletary supports were popping up all over the place. You think they shouldn't have given him a shot?

Second, Shaun Hill was not released by the Niners as you claim. He was traded. It was a move criticized by many. I won't defend that move. It was a dumb decision.

Let's move on to Alex Smith.

He was drafted in 2005. Should they have replaced him that season? The answer of course is no.

His second season he threw for nearly 3,000 yards while heaving 16 touchdowns against 16 interceptions. His qb rating was 74.8. Should they have cut ties with the guy after the season? Again, the answer is no. Unless you're an idiot.

In his third season he was injured early in the year. He had a very public feud with Mike Nolan. Nolan insisted Alex Smith was healthy enough to play. Alex Smith said repeatedly he was not healthy enough to play and his injury was affecting his accuracy. Alex Smith later had surgery on the shoulder, showing Mike Nolan was a moron.

So, after three years you have a guy who played a terrible 9 game stretch his rookie season, a promising second year, and an injury plagued third year. Rolling with Hill would have been a good idea but I don't fault those who still thought Alex Smith offered hope.

In his fourth year he was placed on IR early in the season after it was revealed his previous surgery caused more problems. Another year out the window.

I'm supposed to fault a team for not bailing on the kid after all that? A backup plan would have been smart but I completely understand why it was felt he still had potential. Nearly half of his career to that point was spent being injured.

2009 - his fifth year in the league - finally showed us what we had suspected. Alex Smith is a bust, and not because of injuries.

Who really cares what the fans want? Harbaugh is expected to be a good coach. As such, he deserves our trust. The fact he hasn't traded for some backup who used to play under him shows he must not think the player is as good as fans think.

Suck for Luck is an excellent strategy and one I'm totally on board with. If Kaepernick (or some other qb) steps up before that time it's a win for the team and fans as a whole. But I am again interested in hearing you explain how aiming to get Andrew Luck is a short sighted move.

Josh Johnson in his limited career has thrown 8 interceptions against 4 touchdowns. His qb rating is a impressive 56.9! I'd love to hear how you believe this former 5th round draft pick is worth trading for.

I don't want to bore the SP with a peeing match here, and respect from you is something that you think is what I'm after. I'm not in the least. You're the one twisting everything around here. For one thing, I said "most fans want Josh Johnson", not that I wanted him. So if you can't get something like that straight, then maybe you should just stop trying. I posted all the QB's since 2005 that were and are the 49ers roster. As you can see, it's fairly horrid. Regardless of how Hill left the team, the reason why is because Smith was deemed the De-Facto QB that turned out a poor result. As you can also see, the one constant at QB is Smith, with virtually zero competition for the spot. The end result is a team that can't even win the woeful NFCW.

Now, did I say they should have cut him after 2006? No I didn't. Are you clear on this?

Even after Hostler, and going into the Martz season, he studied the playbook and competed with JTO and Hill. JTO was clearly beating him in camp and pre-season. Now Smith's injury still lingered, but he still had fundamental issues with read and recognition. Turner watered down his offense for Smith's second season. Running a full blown Martz offense? Well, the reason why Martz brought in JTO was due to he not liking the QB situation, and even during Singletary's search for an OC after Martz, the word on the street was the 49ers had a QB problem. I'm not making this up.

I'm trying to explain to that the 49ers are known and have been known to have a QB problem. I'm also simplifying this so that you don't twist the words around, again.

Again, I posted the 49ers were and are complacent at QB. The list shows it. Your 3rd string QB last season replaced your 2nd string QB because you were never gonna start that 2nd string QB in the first place.

BTW, forget the reports that the 49ers wanted to replace Nolan with Holmgren. After the Jets game, they had already had made up their mind for Singletary. It was bad move that was short sighted, and like you said, who cares what the fans think? The Yorks do, thus Singletary.

Heck, CalBear, take over here. You know more about it than Dr. Awesome does.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

Alex Smith has played in 23 games the last 2 seasons. Prorate his numbers for 16 games and they would be:3283-22-15 with 60.0% completionsNot making the Pro Bowl with those numbers, but I'm guessing most who read this are surprised and think they'd be much worse, especially the TD-INT ratio.Last year Jay Cutler was:3274-23-16 with 60.4% completions (15 games)

Those numbers don't explain the book on Smith. A lot of TD's came from when they were behind by 2 or more TD's, and a lot of them came in the second half of a game to which they still lost.

Last year, Smith had 3 TDs/1 INT in games that they were losing big. He had 11 TDs/9 picks in close games. He had 8 TDs/5 INTs in the first half of games and 6 TDs/5 INTs in the second half.The year before, 8 TDs/3 INTs in games they were losing big, and 10 TDs /8 INTs in close games. In the first half of games, he had 8 Tds/7 INTs in the first half and 10 TDs/5 INTs in the second. I am willing to be a lot of QBs put up similar type numbers in games that they are losing big.

 

[drummer]

Alex Smith has played in 23 games the last 2 seasons. Prorate his numbers for 16 games and they would be:3283-22-15 with 60.0% completionsNot making the Pro Bowl with those numbers, but I'm guessing most who read this are surprised and think they'd be much worse, especially the TD-INT ratio.Last year Jay Cutler was:3274-23-16 with 60.4% completions (15 games)

Those numbers don't explain the book on Smith. A lot of TD's came from when they were behind by 2 or more TD's, and a lot of them came in the second half of a game to which they still lost.

Last year, Smith had 3 TDs/1 INT in games that they were losing big. He had 11 TDs/9 picks in close games. He had 8 TDs/5 INTs in the first half of games and 6 TDs/5 INTs in the second half.The year before, 8 TDs/3 INTs in games they were losing big, and 10 TDs /8 INTs in close games. In the first half of games, he had 8 Tds/7 INTs in the first half and 10 TDs/5 INTs in the second. I am willing to be a lot of QBs put up similar type numbers in games that they are losing big.

Again, these numbers don't explain the book on Smith. The 49ers had issues on 3rd down, and Smith wasn't good on 3rd down either. Now of course, there is a lot of correlation there, just as there is above. I've broken down Smith's performances games after games for seasons now, way too often than I should have. The bottom line is how effective he is as a starter. There are a lot of issues with Smith that basic numbers don't show, and a lot of them are fundamental.

 

[dapunisher]

For the Bengals fans crying about the Palmer situation, I for one am thrilled that some owner has the balls to take this stance. Enough of this nonsense. Once a player WILLINGLY SIGNS A CONTRACT, the only option is you finish that contract. Or you park your sorry behind on the bench and stay there and sulk as long as the contract is valid. Period. By taking this stance, hopefully the Bengals ae sending a clear message to the remaining players that we will not be hostage to any single player. This is the ultimate team sport and about time someone did that. I also applaud the SD GM for taking the same approach with VJax. Screw these overpaid, elitist players who feel they are entitled to anything more than the CONTRACT THEY WILLINGLY SIGNED. I wish more owners and GMs across the league took a stance like this. I have no problem if a team wants to extend a contract and reward a player when he is in the final year of his deal and he seems to be a player that has performed well. But again, that should be the team's prerogative and their decision to make. Not a decision that is FORCED upon them. Again, the original contract was signed by both parties WILLINGLY. The Player always has the option to leave in FA if he feels insulted that the team did not extend his contract before it expired. Of course, for a whiny beotch like Palmer who is getting paid handsomely and is over-paid given how much he sukks for a "franchise" Qb, I hope the Bengals let him rot. Even if he decides to come back, I hope they park his ### on the bench and keep him there until his contract expires and get the Dalton era going.

Both parties should be held to the same standard.

This.

 

[ATC1]

Culpepper is slated to meet with the 49ers on Monday, NFL.com reports.

Analysis: Culpepper, who played for the UFL's Sacramento Mountain Lions last season, apparently has drawn interest from a NFL few teams, but it's hard to imagine him being brought on by any squad as anything more than a backup.

 

[FavreCo]

Culpepper is slated to meet with the 49ers on Monday, NFL.com reports.

Analysis: Culpepper, who played for the UFL's Sacramento Mountain Lions last season, apparently has drawn interest from a NFL few teams, but it's hard to imagine him being brought on by any squad as anything more than a backup.

Which means he could compete for the starting job in SF.

 

[eoMMan]

I think Jeff Garcia would be a good fit here.

Yeah, I said it.

 

[Ian F]

I keep hoping for Smith to turn it around but thats just cos I'm a nice guy.

My main point is that the first preseason game didn't provide an opportunity to evaluate any QB play really and certainly not enough to decide to bring in a Vet if they weren't already thinking about doing so

However at this point I'm more worried about the revolving door called the OL rather than the QBs - nobody other than maybe Vick/Steve Young could have done anything worth evaluating at QB in the first pre-season game since they were getting gang tackled on 3 step drops every play etc.

Most of those guys are 1st round picks right????

 

[drummer]

I keep hoping for Smith to turn it around but thats just cos I'm a nice guy. My main point is that the first preseason game didn't provide an opportunity to evaluate any QB play really and certainly not enough to decide to bring in a Vet if they weren't already thinking about doing soHowever at this point I'm more worried about the revolving door called the OL rather than the QBs - nobody other than maybe Vick/Steve Young could have done anything worth evaluating at QB in the first pre-season game since they were getting gang tackled on 3 step drops every play etc.Most of those guys are 1st round picks right????

You have 2 from the McGloughan era in Staley and Rachal. The other 2 are Baalke/Singletary in Iupati and Davis. Before that, I think the last 1st round pick was Kwame Harris way before that, and isn't on the team.ETA: Rachal was a 2nd round pick @39.

 

[thecatch]

I keep hoping for Smith to turn it around but thats just cos I'm a nice guy. My main point is that the first preseason game didn't provide an opportunity to evaluate any QB play really and certainly not enough to decide to bring in a Vet if they weren't already thinking about doing soHowever at this point I'm more worried about the revolving door called the OL rather than the QBs - nobody other than maybe Vick/Steve Young could have done anything worth evaluating at QB in the first pre-season game since they were getting gang tackled on 3 step drops every play etc.Most of those guys are 1st round picks right????

The state of the OL is indeed the most pressing issue for the team right now. I'm not sure if this group is just not gelling like it should, if they were just unprepared for the unusual amount of blitzing from the Saints in the first preseason game, or if they can just chalk it up to a new offensive scheme. Presumably, this line should be better than last year - 4 of the 5 starters returned, they probably upgraded slightly at C, and A. Davis and Iupati should be improved with experience.

 

[Anthony Borbely]

However at this point I'm more worried about the revolving door called the OL rather than the QBs - nobody other than maybe Vick/Steve Young could have done anything worth evaluating at QB in the first pre-season game since they were getting gang tackled on 3 step drops every play etc.

 

[drummer]

I keep hoping for Smith to turn it around but thats just cos I'm a nice guy. My main point is that the first preseason game didn't provide an opportunity to evaluate any QB play really and certainly not enough to decide to bring in a Vet if they weren't already thinking about doing soHowever at this point I'm more worried about the revolving door called the OL rather than the QBs - nobody other than maybe Vick/Steve Young could have done anything worth evaluating at QB in the first pre-season game since they were getting gang tackled on 3 step drops every play etc.Most of those guys are 1st round picks right????

The state of the OL is indeed the most pressing issue for the team right now. I'm not sure if this group is just not gelling like it should, if they were just unprepared for the unusual amount of blitzing from the Saints in the first preseason game, or if they can just chalk it up to a new offensive scheme. Presumably, this line should be better than last year - 4 of the 5 starters returned, they probably upgraded slightly at C, and A. Davis and Iupati should be improved with experience.

For them to gel after 12 practices after coming from Raye's caveman offense is expecting a bit much.

 

[shadyridr]

49ers sign Dante Culpepper What a joke this organization has become

 

[saintfool]

49ers sign Dante Culpepper What a joke this organization has become

meh. i'm guessing that he's insurance. if a week 1 preseason game is any guide then kaepernick is many weeks away from being ready. they need some experience and someone who fits the QB profile (live arm and mobile). i don't think it indicates they are replacing smith yet.

 

[Dr. Awesome]

Again, I posted the 49ers were and are complacent at QB. The list shows it. Your 3rd string QB last season replaced your 2nd string QB because you were never gonna start that 2nd string QB in the first place.

I will ask you yet again what you would have had them do? You've complained about their moves but when I've pressed you for alternative suggestions you've managed to dodge the question repeatedly. What move should they have made this year at quarterback? You've said they should have acquired a better stopgap. Please share with us what that move would have been.You've also ignored explaining how sucking for Luck is an short sighted move. Instead it seems you're bent on tossing out insults and other false accusations.

 

[baconisgood]

49ers sign Dante Culpepper What a joke this organization has become

Sticking with Alex Smith all these years is a joke- but signing a vet to a minimum deal to soak up a lot of punishment rather than sticking a rookie QB to go out there and get S'Carred (or Couched they both work in a way) is a smart move. SF's offensive line looked bad and Smith might no hold up long enough- so enter a 280 lbs wall between the rook and the early demise of his career.

 

[Exit 1]

GET YOUR ROLL ON!!!!

 

[footballnerd]

GET YOUR ROLL ON!!!!

need to get Randy out of retirement first