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600+ Billion. 600,000,000,000+ (1 Viewer)

NCCommish

NCCommish

Footballguy
For the only government dept you can't audit. For the DoD that we know racks up 10s and 100s of billions in waste. What if we didn't?

What if we said you know we spend way much killing people.for fun and profit? Our most active enemies seem.to prefer box cutters to billion dollar aircraft. We could cut our spending by 300 billion and still spend what are two more advanced rivals do. Combined.

What could we do with 300 billion a year? Provide universal college and trade school. Rebuild our infrastructure. Expand Medicare, WIC, Food stamps. Instead of cutting them. We would be talking saving 3 trillion dollars over the next ten years. If we have the money when it is going to go for bombs we have it to invest in ourselves and nation building at home.

And this isn't a Republican thing. Obama loved him some money for the military. Trump's proposal is only a 3% increase over Obama's spending plan. Both parties are totally in the pocket of the military industrial complex. When are people going to wake up and ask why do we need to be at war in 7 countries? Why did we bomb Syria so completely we literally ran out of bombs? What have we accomplished exactly so far in 15 years of an ever expanding never ending war? What do we have to show for trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives and 100s of thousands of civilian live across the Middle East? What did we get for all that sacrifice? Not a ### #### thing. Well unless you own defense stocks cause then you might have got rich

 
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NCCommish said:
For the only government dept you can't audit. For the DoD that we know racks up 10s and 100s of billions in waste. What if we didn't?

What if we said you know we spend way much killing people.for fun and profit? Our most active enemies seem.to prefer box cutters to billion dollar aircraft. We could cut our spending by 300 billion and still spend what are two more advanced rivals do. Combined.

What could we do with 300 billion a year? Provide universal college and trade school. Rebuild our infrastructure. Expand Medicare, WIC, Food stamps. Instead of cutting them. We would be talking saving 3 trillion dollars over the next ten years. If we have the money when it is going to go for bombs we have it to invest in ourselves and nation building at home.

And this isn't a Republican thing. Obama loved him some money for the military. Trump's proposal is only a 3% increase over Obama's spending plan. Both parties are totally in the pocket of the military industrial complex. When are people going to wake up and ask why do we need to be at war in 7 countries? Why did we bomb Syria so completely we literally ran out of bombs? What have we accomplished exactly so far in 15 years of an ever expanding never ending war? What do we have to show for trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives and 100s of thousands of civilian live across the Middle East? What did we get for all that sacrifice? Not a ### #### thing. Well unless you own defense stocks cause then you might have got rich
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couldn't agree more, it is a complete and utter embarrassment that we can't audit.  it should be the first government department discussed anytime we are looking to reduce our spending yet it never happens.

 
Fairly certain that, if you offered the operators a % of savings without significant loss of service, you could cut the budget of any govt dept in half.

 
I think anyone who is truly a believer in conservatism has to hate what our military is.  What a freaking monstrosity.

 
Every time someone says to me how you going to pay for it I think about our ridiculous military budget. And what it says about our priorities as a nation.

 
from Saturday's SNL:

"President Trump said that his budget will help enlarge what he calls a 'depleted military,' " Che says, after President Trump this past week proposed a $54 billion increase in the Department of Defense budget. "Depleted military? In relation to what, the Death Star?"

 
Don't disagree just wondering how many jobs get cut if you slice $300 billion? Not being an ### just have no clue. Is it 10 people or 10,000 or 100,000? We already have a segment of the population unemployed that people seem to have forgotten.

I agree that our forces don't need to be involved in every conflict in the world, especially with advances in drone warfare which is relatively cheap. I've been watching ISIS drop grenades with some pretty effective shots from drones I'm guessing they got off Amazon.

 
We use our military to advance our interests as a nation.  But then we also take the sucker end of deals we make with allies that we protect. That's one thing Trump is right about - it doesn't make sense to do both.  I just don't agree that the answer is to spend more on military and push for protectionist trade deals. 

 
NCCommish said:
For the only government dept you can't audit. For the DoD that we know racks up 10s and 100s of billions in waste. What if we didn't?

What if we said you know we spend way much killing people.for fun and profit? Our most active enemies seem.to prefer box cutters to billion dollar aircraft. We could cut our spending by 300 billion and still spend what are two more advanced rivals do. Combined.

What could we do with 300 billion a year? Provide universal college and trade school. Rebuild our infrastructure. Expand Medicare, WIC, Food stamps. Instead of cutting them. We would be talking saving 3 trillion dollars over the next ten years. If we have the money when it is going to go for bombs we have it to invest in ourselves and nation building at home.

And this isn't a Republican thing. Obama loved him some money for the military. Trump's proposal is only a 3% increase over Obama's spending plan. Both parties are totally in the pocket of the military industrial complex. When are people going to wake up and ask why do we need to be at war in 7 countries? Why did we bomb Syria so completely we literally ran out of bombs? What have we accomplished exactly so far in 15 years of an ever expanding never ending war? What do we have to show for trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives and 100s of thousands of civilian live across the Middle East? What did we get for all that sacrifice? Not a ### #### thing. Well unless you own defense stocks cause then you might have got rich
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HOW ARE WE GOING TO PAY FOR IT?!?!

So sick of hearing that line when it comes to basic human services that most countries with fractions of our wealth are able to afford.  I would like to see our military used for defense, not policing the entire globe.  I honestly don't care about terrorism.  Our domestic violence is a bigger problem in my eyes

 
Chaka said:
This fight was over when Eisenhower was unable to win it.
Click to expand...
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. [...] Is there no other way the world may live?"  President Dwight Eisenhower 1/17/61

Good article http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later

 
beer 30 said:
"Every gun that is made, every warship launched, every rocket fired signifies, in the final sense, a theft from those who hunger and are not fed, those who are cold and are not clothed. This world in arms is not spending money alone. It is spending the sweat of its laborers, the genius of its scientists, the hopes of its children. The cost of one modern heavy bomber is this: a modern brick school in more than 30 cities. It is two electric power plants, each serving a town of 60,000 population. It is two fine, fully equipped hospitals. It is some fifty miles of concrete pavement. We pay for a single fighter plane with a half million bushels of wheat. We pay for a single destroyer with new homes that could have housed more than 8,000 people. This is, I repeat, the best way of life to be found on the road the world has been taking. This is not a way of life at all, in any true sense. Under the cloud of threatening war, it is humanity hanging from a cross of iron. [...] Is there no other way the world may live?"  President Dwight Eisenhower 1/17/61

Good article http://www.npr.org/2011/01/17/132942244/ikes-warning-of-military-expansion-50-years-later
Click to expand...
Lord, i wish someone, anyone in power talked like this anymore. I miss it more than creamsicles & bicycle bells combined

 
Last edited by a moderator:
NCCommish said:
For the only government dept you can't audit. For the DoD that we know racks up 10s and 100s of billions in waste. What if we didn't?

What if we said you know we spend way much killing people.for fun and profit? Our most active enemies seem.to prefer box cutters to billion dollar aircraft. We could cut our spending by 300 billion and still spend what are two more advanced rivals do. Combined.

What could we do with 300 billion a year? Provide universal college and trade school. Rebuild our infrastructure. Expand Medicare, WIC, Food stamps. Instead of cutting them. We would be talking saving 3 trillion dollars over the next ten years. If we have the money when it is going to go for bombs we have it to invest in ourselves and nation building at home.

And this isn't a Republican thing. Obama loved him some money for the military. Trump's proposal is only a 3% increase over Obama's spending plan. Both parties are totally in the pocket of the military industrial complex. When are people going to wake up and ask why do we need to be at war in 7 countries? Why did we bomb Syria so completely we literally ran out of bombs? What have we accomplished exactly so far in 15 years of an ever expanding never ending war? What do we have to show for trillions of dollars, thousands of American lives and 100s of thousands of civilian live across the Middle East? What did we get for all that sacrifice? Not a ### #### thing. Well unless you own defense stocks cause then you might have got rich
Click to expand...
I think this is monstrous. Easy to see why people over there hate the US when the US has been bombing the middle east for 15 years.  Anyone that realistically thinks that the USA is the "good guy" should take a look at things a bit more objectively.  

It's a war machine for profit.

 
DoD desperately needs an audit.  It's own internal supply agency charges itself a 15% (maybe more) markup.

 
rascal said:
DoD desperately needs an audit.  It's own internal supply agency charges itself a 15% (maybe more) markup.
Click to expand...
The last audit - ten or fifteen yrs ago - the Pentagon had no receipts for $230bil in expenditures and it didnt raise as much public attention as a Pacific hurricane.

 
wikkidpissah said:
Lord, i wish someone, anyone in power talked like this anymore. I miss it more than creamsicles & bicycle bells combined
Click to expand...
And this coming from the man whose army & men benefited as much or more from that industry at probably any time in history at least up until then. Amazing clarity from the man who stood to benefit more from a large military industry than probably most anyone in the world at the time.

Side note, not a fan of bicycle bells.

 
beer 30 said:
And this coming from the man whose army & men benefited as much or more from that industry at probably any time in history at least up until then. Amazing clarity from the man who stood to benefit more from a large military industry than probably most anyone in the world at the time.

Side note, not a fan of bicycle bells.
Click to expand...
The Pentagon is - blingbling......blingbling

 
shader said:
I think this is monstrous. Easy to see why people over there hate the US when the US has been bombing the middle east for 15 years.  Anyone that realistically thinks that the USA is the "good guy" should take a look at things a bit more objectively.  

It's a war machine for profit.
Click to expand...
We like to think we are John Wayne the cowboy hero. We are actually the murderous outlaws he would hunt down and bring to justice.

 
wikkidpissah said:
The last audit - ten or fifteen yrs ago - the Pentagon had no receipts for $230bil in expenditures and it didnt raise as much public attention as a Pacific hurricane.
Click to expand...
Even more recently they stopped an investigation into their finances when it got to 125 billion in I don't knows. Then they buried the unfinished report.

We are almost out of plowshares.

 
NCCommish said:
We like to think we are John Wayne the cowboy hero. We are actually the murderous outlaws he would hunt down and bring to justice.
Click to expand...
Come on.  The world isn't this black and white.  We are a bit of both and often times it depends less on our actual actions and more on your perspective or priorities.

 
Jayrod said:
Come on.  The world isn't this black and white.  We are a bit of both and often times it depends less on our actual actions and more on your perspective or priorities.
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How many women and children do we get to kill before we are the bad guys? How many refugees do we get to create then deny before we are the bad guys? How many war crimes do we get to commit before we are the bad guys? How many murderous oppressive regimes do we get to prop up before we are the bad guys? Come on yourself. No terrorist can touch us.

 
We need to stop. We are becoming the monsters we started out hunting. This is really a question for everyone who lives here. Is this what you want your country to be? Do you want children to be afraid to play outside in clear weather because of our drones? Do you want the blood of tens of thousands of civilians on your hands? Your tax money makes it possible. You are an accessory as am I. Unwilling or not we are. What are we going to do about it? We need to stop.

 
Jayrod said:
Come on.  The world isn't this black and white.  We are a bit of both and often times it depends less on our actual actions and more on your perspective or priorities.
Click to expand...
Where we are is debatable. The problem is an ever increasing military does nothing to make the rest of the world like us, and a lot to make them hate us. So even if the world's perception of us today is on good terms, it's only temporary, unless we quit growing our military.  

 
beer 30 said:
Don't disagree just wondering how many jobs get cut if you slice $300 billion? Not being an ### just have no clue. Is it 10 people or 10,000 or 100,000? We already have a segment of the population unemployed that people seem to have forgotten.

I agree that our forces don't need to be involved in every conflict in the world, especially with advances in drone warfare which is relatively cheap. I've been watching ISIS drop grenades with some pretty effective shots from drones I'm guessing they got off Amazon.
Click to expand...
I haven't forgotten. Remember all those things I said we could do? We need people to do them. Millions of them. And if retraining is needed no problem. Cause we got the money if we want to have it.

 
Zigg said:
One did, but CNN made sure you knew that he had no chance vs Hillary.  Plus scary socialism.  Oops
Click to expand...
I am a constituent of Bern's and my family has had many dealings with him in our charitable efforts (dad was VT Volunteer of the Year, only cuz Mom turned it down) and hate him like burning pee. Much of his message i like, but he has been in the promise industry far too long to have any credit with me.

 
beer 30 said:
Don't disagree just wondering how many jobs get cut if you slice $300 billion? Not being an ### just have no clue. Is it 10 people or 10,000 or 100,000? We already have a segment of the population unemployed that people seem to have forgotten.

I agree that our forces don't need to be involved in every conflict in the world, especially with advances in drone warfare which is relatively cheap. I've been watching ISIS drop grenades with some pretty effective shots from drones I'm guessing they got off Amazon.
Click to expand...
Why is it that EVERYTHING else that gets cut is a cost savings, but whenever we discuss cuts to the military it's all about the jobs that will be lost?

On an unrelated note, but relevant to some of the other discussion in here.  We got into Iraq and Afghanistan because a little over 3000 Americans died in the 9/11 attacks.  We have now killed at least 10 times that number of civilians in those two countries, probably close to 100 times that number and have lost more than 3000 servicemen and women.  The infrastructure in that region is obliterated.  We would be better off today if we had another 9/11 and stayed out of the ME altogether.  I don't value the people who lost their lives in the WTC any more than I value military personnel, but I feel like many in this country, and most of our leaders do.  I cringe when I hear "support the troops!" while we are sending them to their senseless deaths.. The "War on Terror" is a disaster with no end in sight and I am confident our actions to this point have only made matters worse than they were 15 years ago while bankrupting us in the process.

 
NCCommish said:
How many women and children do we get to kill before we are the bad guys? How many refugees do we get to create then deny before we are the bad guys? How many war crimes do we get to commit before we are the bad guys? How many murderous oppressive regimes do we get to prop up before we are the bad guys? Come on yourself. No terrorist can touch us.
Click to expand...
Yes, everything we do is bad and nothing is good.  Clearly only bad.

Sorry, not sure how I could miss such an obvious truth.

 
Jayrod said:
Yes, everything we do is bad and nothing is good.  Clearly only bad.

Sorry, not sure how I could miss such an obvious truth.
Click to expand...
You don't get to say yeah but we dug a well when your own DoD admits to a 90% civilian casualty rate from your drone war. You don't get to say yeah but when you are the thing people fear. There is no yeah but that covers 100,000 dead civilians, minimum, in Iraq. So all the good gets washed away in the blood of the innocent who pay the price for our out of control militarism.

 
NCCommish said:
We like to think we are John Wayne the cowboy hero. We are actually the murderous outlaws he would hunt down and bring to justice.
Click to expand...
this sort of hyperbole is where you lose me.   You had me with "let's stop wasting money when we don't need to."  Then you switched to the "OH MY GOD WE'RE THE WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!!!" bit.

Not every decision the military makes is a bad one, and people claim isolationism is bad too.   Maybe even you've made the claim.   Or is it ok when we give aid to these nations?

 
MarvinTScamper said:
this sort of hyperbole is where you lose me.   You had me with "let's stop wasting money when we don't need to."  Then you switched to the "OH MY GOD WE'RE THE WORST PEOPLE IN THE WORLD!!!" bit.

Not every decision the military makes is a bad one, and people claim isolationism is bad too.   Maybe even you've made the claim.   Or is it ok when we give aid to these nations?
Click to expand...
I'm not an isolationist. And I have no problem with economic aid.

I do have a problem when we sell weapons to a repressive regime to commit genocide. See Saudi Arabia versus Yemen. I do have a problem when we drop over 25000 bombs on a country that never did a thing to us. Killing a crap ton of civilians along the way. I do have a.problem when a war.of choice results in the deaths of 100000 civilians, minimum. I do have a problem when our drone program is a civilian killing machine by the militaries own admission. I do have a problem.when that same program is allowed to commit war crimes. I have a problem when a President kills an American citizen without so.much as a show trial. Then we kill his son. And now we've killed his daughter. All American citizens all dead with no due process. I can go further back in history if you'd like. We can talk about the brutal dictators we set up and kept in power. You know like.the Shah and Saddam.

We aren't the good guys the way we play the game now. 

 
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