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80+ UK Doctors: Failed COVID Policies Caused ‘Massive’ Harm, Especially to Children (2 Viewers)

Hot Diggity Dog said:
Yeah my kids had big problems with remote learning and the on again off again in person learning.  Keeping them focused was a daily battle.   They went to a high school that serves a majority of poor or lower middle class children.   Complete chaos coming back to school and the administration, arguably rightfully, focusing on that let a bunch of crap go on to the point we moved our last daughter who is a junior in high school out of the school.   My daughter was bullied entire first semester this year and no one did crap about it.  My impression was the administration felt a kid with good grades and two parents that care didn't deserve their attention and they had to cater to the bullies families to keep them in school.   
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That sucks, and unfortunately, you are correct in your assessment.  I have a buddy who is a 7th grade teacher and he confirmed that the unwritten policy is to do nothing essentially....it's hard to watch a good kid dread going to school.

 
KarmaPolice said:
What I find more dangerous though is that I feel like there are people that point to stuff like that, and then assume they are also wrong about vaccines and other things.  
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Some of us find it very easy to say "These people are wrong about X but they're absolutely right about Y."  I am extremely confident that we're in a rather extreme minority.  Most people don't think that way, and humans probably aren't naturally wired to think that way.

This is one of the reasons why it probably wasn't a good idea for public health officials to embrace a rather extreme ideological position.  You're basically begging half the country to ignore everything you say after that.  

 
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Sabertooth said:
Weird, I don't know a single person on the left or right who doesn't want to get back to normal.  Have you asked the "leftists" you know if they want it to continue?  See I feel that way about "rightists" and their vaccine refusal.  They simply want it to last longer.   Most of the right wing business owners I know got way more COVID money than anyone else.  Way more.  Millions more.  
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The evil right wingers made our like bandits!  Haha......that's rich.

It's not that leftists want to keep the vid as much as they seem to want to live in fear and lash out at others who don't live in as much fear.......just my observation....but I live in a leftist paradise

 
Manster said:
That sucks, and unfortunately, you are correct in your assessment.  I have a buddy who is a 7th grade teacher and he confirmed that the unwritten policy is to do nothing essentially....it's hard to watch a good kid dread going to school.
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Yes, this whole covid experience has made me lose a lot of respect for the education community.  Focused on themselves and not the kids and then they  want to be respected like cops and fire fighters.   Yeah no. 

 
Sabertooth said:
Weird, I don't know a single person on the left or right who doesn't want to get back to normal.  Have you asked the "leftists" you know if they want it to continue?  See I feel that way about "rightists" and their vaccine refusal.  They simply want it to last longer.   Most of the right wing business owners I know got way more COVID money than anyone else.  Way more.  Millions more.  
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Weren’t the Covid relief funds essentially a formulaic exercise as opposed to ideological?

 
IvanKaramazov said:
Some of us find it very easy to say "These people are wrong about X but they're absolutely right about Y."  I am extremely confident that we're in a rather extreme minority.  Most people don't think that way, and humans probably aren't naturally wired to think that way.

This is one of the reasons why it probably wasn't a good idea for public health officials to embrace a rather extreme ideological position.  You're basically begging half the country to ignore everything you say after that.  
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Good post as usual.   It's sad and fascinating at the the same time to go back through and look at all these places where people made this pandemic and how to handle it political.  I wish I could say we learned our lesson.  

 
Sabertooth said:
Allegedly.  
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We had a lot of businesses who did better than ever that got funds.  That did occur, along with some of the fraud you'd expect from such a hastily thrown together government administered plan. 

My biggest gripe with the plan wasn't so much the fraud, some of which is being found and prosecuted, but that they didn't target businesses of need.  They simply made everyone eligible.  I get the "why" of that, to get it done quick and avoid political setbacks to keep people employed.  But some businesses who lost 100% of revenues were lumped into the same plan as businesses performing at record levels, and that part of it is the part as a business owner myself that I'll always remember. 

We wasted a lot of funds on large businesses setting records each day rather than those who were truly in jeopardy.  Whether those unneeded funds should have been redirected or merely saved by the government, either would have been preferable.

 
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Dickies said:
Interesting that Nambudripad is a chiropractor.  I know several chiropractors and all of them are staunchly against all vaccines.  Makes me question the entire profession.
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The whole profession should be called into question for more than just the general vaccine stance. It's crazy the degree to which it's accepted.

 
Shula-holic said:
We had a lot of businesses who did better than ever that got funds.  That did occur, along with some of the fraud you'd expect from such a hastily thrown together government administered plan. 

My biggest gripe with the plan wasn't so much the fraud, some of which is being found and prosecuted, but that they didn't target businesses of need.  They simply made everyone eligible.  I get the "why" of that, to get it done quick and avoid political setbacks to keep people employed.  But some businesses who lost 100% of revenues were lumped into the same plan as businesses performing at record levels, and that part of it is the part as a business owner myself that I'll always remember. 

We wasted a lot of funds on large businesses setting records each day rather than those who were truly in jeopardy.  Whether those unneeded funds should have been redirected or merely saved by the government, either would have been preferable.
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In my home town, the Dominos pizza franchise owner got over a million, as did the guy who owns the Verizon store.  Sickening. 

 
Dickies said:
Interesting that Nambudripad is a chiropractor.  I know several chiropractors and all of them are staunchly against all vaccines.  Makes me question the entire profession.
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jhib said:
The whole profession should be called into question for more than just the general vaccine stance. It's crazy the degree to which it's accepted.
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I agree with both of these statements. My son has had digestive issues his entire life and we tried everything under the sun. Eventually ended up at a chiropractor who for an hour made the most logical sounding argument as to what was causing things and how she was going to fix them.

Then proceeded to try and sell us a special organic coffee and special bag for special coffee enemas for the boy to take. And these were all on a shelf with other items directly from the Goop website, including a vagina strengthening device. For only $400.

This makes me still respect doctors and all of the schooling they go through, but I will never blindly trust one again.

 
Bogart said:
I agree with both of these statements. My son has had digestive issues his entire life and we tried everything under the sun. Eventually ended up at a chiropractor who for an hour made the most logical sounding argument as to what was causing things and how she was going to fix them.

Then proceeded to try and sell us a special organic coffee and special bag for special coffee enemas for the boy to take. And these were all on a shelf with other items directly from the Goop website, including a vagina strengthening device. For only $400.

This makes me still respect doctors and all of the schooling they go through, but I will never blindly trust one again.
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Chiropractors only receive a fraction of the education that actual doctors go through. It’s a huge stretch to even consider them doctors IMHO.  

 
Dickies said:
Chiropractors only receive a fraction of the education that actual doctors go through. It’s a huge stretch to even consider them doctors IMHO.  
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This part I disagree with a bit.   I went to school for chiropractic for a couple years.   Tons of anatomy, biochem, etc..   It was not easy at all.   I am not fully educated as a side by side comparison, but I think a lot of similar foundations are there.     IMO the bigger issues that I saw were:

1.  (and this could be different now - this was 20 years ago).  The requirements that needed to be met to get in.   There was a ton of people with just 2 or 3 years of undergrad, the GPA requirements were a lot less, etc.   I saw a lot of people struggle and either drop out or have to take anatomy 3-4 times to pass.  

2.  And this was the bigger issue with me - the dipping into the junk science that you guys are talking about.   A lot of anti-vax, holistic mumbo jumbo mixed in.   Basically instead of thinking of themselves as team with family practitioners and being realistic about what they do, it was the mentality that you go to them instead of your MD.  

I still go occasionally, and do find relief from my headaches and such.  They aren't all quacks and I don't think the entire profession needs to be tossed aside or anything.  

 
Only person I am truly good friends with who has refused to vaccinate his kids (childhood vaccines and now covid) or himself for covid is a chiropractor

 
KarmaPolice said:
This part I disagree with a bit.   I went to school for chiropractic for a couple years.   Tons of anatomy, biochem, etc..   It was not easy at all.   I am not fully educated as a side by side comparison, but I think a lot of similar foundations are there.     IMO the bigger issues that I saw were:

1.  (and this could be different now - this was 20 years ago).  The requirements that needed to be met to get in.   There was a ton of people with just 2 or 3 years of undergrad, the GPA requirements were a lot less, etc.   I saw a lot of people struggle and either drop out or have to take anatomy 3-4 times to pass.  

2.  And this was the bigger issue with me - the dipping into the junk science that you guys are talking about.   A lot of anti-vax, holistic mumbo jumbo mixed in.   Basically instead of thinking of themselves as team with family practitioners and being realistic about what they do, it was the mentality that you go to them instead of your MD.  

I still go occasionally, and do find relief from my headaches and such.  They aren't all quacks and I don't think the entire profession needs to be tossed aside or anything.  
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I know a few of them, and I wonder if the requirements have gotten lower over the years. My best friend’s wife was a culinary school-trained pastry chef before taking two years of part-time chiropractor school to become a chiropractor. No actual university education beforehand.

I’ve never seen a chiropractor, but do know a number of people who swear by them, so I will assume there are some good ones mixed in. I certainly don’t think the entire profession needs to be tossed aside, but my impression is that they are being taken over by pseudo-science quacks. 

 
Dickies said:
I know a few of them, and I wonder if the requirements have gotten lower over the years. My best friend’s wife was a culinary school-trained pastry chef before taking two years of part-time chiropractor school to become a chiropractor. No actual university education beforehand.

I’ve never seen a chiropractor, but do know a number of people who swear by them, so I will assume there are some good ones mixed in. I certainly don’t think the entire profession needs to be tossed aside, but my impression is that they are being taken over by pseudo-science quacks. 
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This part surprises me - do you know where this was?  

I went to Palmer in IA and if my memory is correct it was 2 years of undergrad only to get in, and it seemed like a fair number were from tech schools.   Then it was I think 10 trimesters that went all year long averaging 24-30 credits a trimester.   Like I said, it wasn't easy once you got there (at least the core science first 2 or so years), but it's wasn't overly selective to get in.   My impression is that it became more selective and harder to get in over the years, but I honestly don't know.  

 
KarmaPolice said:
This part surprises me - do you know where this was?  

I went to Palmer in IA and if my memory is correct it was 2 years of undergrad only to get in, and it seemed like a fair number were from tech schools.   Then it was I think 10 trimesters that went all year long averaging 24-30 credits a trimester.   Like I said, it wasn't easy once you got there (at least the core science first 2 or so years), but it's wasn't overly selective to get in.   My impression is that it became more selective and harder to get in over the years, but I honestly don't know.  
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I don't know.  My timeline could be off as this was years ago.  Maybe it was 3 years of schooling, but I know she wasn't a taking a full course load and I know with 100% certainty that she had no previous college undergrad units because she was trying to convince her sister who was working at Starbucks how easy it was to get into the school.

 
Chiropractic – A Brief Overview, Part I

Chiropractic – A Brief Overview, Part II

Straights, mixers, and reformers

Almost since the beginning, chiropractic has been fraught with many internal schisms. Today there is a wide range of differences between individual chiropractors, but most can be placed within one of three basic types.

Straight chiropractors consider themselves the only true or pure chiropractors because they limit their practice to the identification and treatment of spinal subluxations. They adhere strictly to Palmer’s concept of disease and believe that all ailments can be treated through manipulation to restore the flow of innate intelligence. Once freely flowing, they believe innate intelligence has unlimited power to naturally heal the body.

Straight chiropractors are the most extreme in their anti-scientific views. They openly advocate a philosophical rather than a scientific basis for health care, calling mainstream medicine “mechanistic” and “allopathic.” They call physicians “drug pushers” and disparage the use of surgery. They are careful not to give diseases names, but none-the-less they claim to cure disease with their adjustments. They oppose vaccinations. They also openly advocate the replacement of scientific medicine with chiropractic as primary health care. The statements of Dr. Wilson A. Morgan (who just passed away earlier this month), previous Executive Officer of Life College School of Chiropractic, are typical:

Chiropractic: The health care system whose time as the official guardian of the public’s health is fast approaching!
On the other hand, it is equally appropriate for chiropractors to be viewed as generalists in that the far-reaching effects of their highly specific spinal adjustments usually are followed by the decrease and often disappearance of a very broad array of symptoms, disabilities and pathological conditions.
Unlike the medical profession, chiropractic has a very strong philosophical basis, which no doubt has contributed to its having been labeled ‘unscientific’ by the more mechanistically-oriented scientific community.
It appears that education will prove to be the best strategy in the ‘war on drugs,’ including education about the dangers of drugs available on the street and also those available from the physician as prescriptions.

Mixers, comprising the largest segment of chiropractors, may at first seem more rational. They accept that some disease is caused by infection or other causes and they do not limit their practice to fixing subluxations. Most chiropractors in this group, however, do not supplement subluxation theory with scientific medicine, but rather with an eclectic array of pseudoscientific alternative practices. Mixers commonly prescribe homeopathic and herbal remedies, practice acupuncture and therapeutic touch, diagnose with iridology, contour analysis, and applied kinesiology, and adhere to the philosophy of naturopathy. This broad use of unproven, unscientific, and fanciful so-called “alternative” practices clearly indicates an antiscience attitude, as well as a lack of scientific knowledge, on the part of those chiropractors who employ them.

The rhetoric of mixers indicates that they are attempting to become accepted into the scientific mainstream, rather than replace scientifically based medicine with a philosophy based approach. They no longer openly oppose immunization, like straights do, but they do advocate the freedom to choose whether or not to be immunized. Their appeal to freedom is emotionally effective, especially in the United States, but it fails to recognize that immunization is far less effective in eliminating or containing infectious diseases when it is not given to everyone. They also advocate a role for chiropractors as a primary care portal of entry system within HealthCare, despite the fact that they lack adequate training as generalists skilled in medical diagnosis.

A small minority of chiropractors, numbering only about 1,000, or 2% of all chiropractors (these are rough estimates because accurate figures are lacking), have been openly critical of their own field. They have called for absolute rejection of the subluxation theory of illness, disposing of pseudoscientific and unethical practices by chiropractors, and the restriction of chiropractic to treating acute musculoskeletal symptoms. They are attempting to bring their field into the scientific mainstream.
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jhib said:
Chiropractic – A Brief Overview, Part I

Chiropractic – A Brief Overview, Part II
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That article was impressively accurate in describing every chiropractor I know.  Our friend would tell us that we shouldn't subject our kids to antibiotics when they got ear infections and advocated some manipulation nonsense.

Here is what gets me aggravated about this country's attitude towards vaccines:

"Their appeal to freedom is emotionally effective, especially in the United States, but it fails to recognize that immunization is far less effective in eliminating or containing infectious diseases when it is not given to everyone."

 
Insein said:
Theyre willing to risk their careers to speak out rather than stay quiet and keep their paychecks. 
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lol, who do you think is silencing doctors?  Some kind of elite society going around forcing doctors not to practice anymore?

The conspiracy theories that so many believe these days is really out of control.  And I guess our hospitals have been getting rich off of covid too?

 
RavenFan said:
lol, who do you think is silencing doctors?  Some kind of elite society going around forcing doctors not to practice anymore?

The conspiracy theories that so many believe these days is really out of control.  And I guess our hospitals have been getting rich off of covid too?
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And on top of that, the force behind the silencing is so strong that only 130 are brave enough to stick their neck out.   

 
KarmaPolice said:
And on top of that, the force behind the silencing is so strong that only 130 are brave enough to stick their neck out.   
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Bro the secret, elite physician police squad will take their paychecks!

And to be real for a moment, there is NOTHING doctors like better than to be considered smarter or more right than other doctors.  Doctors who believed in this crap would be running to the media full sprint to express their feelings.

Folks think doctors are shy and scared all of a sudden?

 
RavenFan said:
Bro the secret, elite physician police squad will take their paychecks!

And to be real for a moment, there is NOTHING doctors like better than to be considered smarter or more right than other doctors.  Doctors who believed in this crap would be running to the media full sprint to express their feelings.

Folks think doctors are shy and scared all of a sudden?
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And what happens to those doctors that have gone to the media with their concerns? Have they been treated fairly and their opinions heard or have they been labeled quacks, crackpots, grifters, and anti-science? Have they had their licenses threatened for offering alternative treatments for Covid? For having concerns about the adverse effects of the vaccines. 

A Warning to Doctors: Spreading Misinformation could cost you your License

Doctor loses license, must have psych evaluation for COVID falsehoods, board says

Suspended Texas doctor who promoted ivermectin as Covid treatment resigns from hospital

They take an oath to do no harm, but these doctors are spreading misinformation about the Covid vaccine

Notice the theme here. "Misinformation" is their offense and it's never really mentioned the specifics or embellished beyond the realm of reality. Their crime is disagreeing with the official narrative of the time. Some of which is proven wrong oy months later. 

They all lost their licenses or were forced to quit. It's an incredible risk for a doctor to go against the official narrative. There's dozens and dozens of stories like this out there. It's n intimidation tactic. Like a bloody head on a spike, this warns doctors you better tow the vaccine line or keep your mouth shut. 

 
For all you die hard Galen Fong website haters. Ron Johnson a U.S. senator has much of the same material on his website. https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/2022/1/video-release-sen-ron-johnson-covid-19-a-second-opinion-panel-garners-over-800-000-views-in-24-hours

All the establishment criminals refused to join the conversation  because they can’t control the narrative without censorship. That seems to be the tactic with so many of you here. Why would you need censorship if the science stands on its own? Probably because Fitz is right on this. You don’t go full blown totalitarian if you have good intentions. That should have been your first clue and major red flag. 

 
pinkham13 said:
For all you die hard Galen Fong website haters. Ron Johnson a U.S. senator has much of the same material on his website. https://www.ronjohnson.senate.gov/2022/1/video-release-sen-ron-johnson-covid-19-a-second-opinion-panel-garners-over-800-000-views-in-24-hours

All the establishment criminals refused to join the conversation  because they can’t control the narrative without censorship. That seems to be the tactic with so many of you here. Why would you need censorship if the science stands on its own? Probably because Fitz is right on this. You don’t go full blown totalitarian if you have good intentions. That should have been your first clue and major red flag. 
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Ron Johnson is your guy?  He has been wrong nearly every step of the way...promoting just downright false narratives.  His "evidence" does not hold up to any scrutiny whatsoever and never has.

His panel including Malone?   Yeah, its been widely criticized by actual doctors.  Its not credible...neither is Ron Johnson.

https://dc.medill.northwestern.edu/blog/2022/01/26/fact-check-johnsons-covid-19-a-second-opinion-panel-criticized-as-vehicle-for-misinformation/#sthash.JteE9N2Q.dpbs

You are actively promoting pseudoscience that Ron Johnson has been pushing.

 
RavenFan said:
lol, who do you think is silencing doctors?  Some kind of elite society going around forcing doctors not to practice anymore?

The conspiracy theories that so many believe these days is really out of control.  And I guess our hospitals have been getting rich off of covid too?
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Welcome back! One guy punches out , another punches in.

 
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