9-year-old girl accidentally kills instructor with uzi (2 Viewers)

[timschochet]

So I decided to look up actual statistics about children and access to guns, and I came up with this article- I have bolded the statistical data that I find compelling. It seems to make a pretty good argument against exposing children to firearms in general (not just Uzis):

http://www.slate.com/articles/health_and_science/medical_examiner/2014/06/gun_deaths_in_children_statistics_show_firearms_endanger_kids_despite_nra.html

Caroline Starks was 2 years old. Her 5-year-old brother was playing nearby with his birthday present: a .22-caliber Crickett rifle. His mother stepped outside for a moment, certain the gun wasn’t loaded. She was wrong. Caroline was pronounced dead a few hours later at the Cumberland County Hospital in Kentucky.

Despite harrowing tragedies like Caroline’s death, the National Rifle Association is committed to expanding firearm ownership among children. The NRA’s recent convention in Indianapolis included a “Youth Day” to promote firearms for children, an event from which the media was banned. For years, gun manufacturers and the NRA have marketed firearms to children ages 5 to 12, insisting that programs such as the Eddie Eagle Safety Program ensure the safety of children. If they truly believe this, they are mistaken.
The overwhelming empirical evidence indicates that the presence of a gun makes children less safe; that programs such as Eddie Eagle are insufficient; and that measures the NRA and extreme gun advocates vehemently oppose, such as gun safes and smart guns, could dramatically reduce the death toll. Study after study unequivocally demonstrates that the prevalence of firearms directly increases the risk of youth homicide, suicide, and unintentional death. This effect is consistent across the United States and throughout the world. As a country, we should be judged by how well we protect our children. By any measure, we are failing horribly.
The United States accounts for nearly 75 percent of all children murdered in the developed world. Children between the ages of 5 and 14 in the United States are 17 times more likely to be murdered by firearms than children in other industrialized nations.
Children from states where firearms are prevalent suffer from significantly higher rates of homicide, even after accounting for poverty, education, and urbanization. A study focusing on youth in North Carolina found that most of these deaths were caused by legally purchased handguns. A recent meta-analysis revealed that easy access to firearms doubled the risk of homicide and tripled the risk for suicide among all household members. Family violence is also much more likely to be lethal in homes where a firearm is present, placing children especially in danger. Murder-suicides are another major risk to children and are most likely to be committed with a gun.

Crucially, these deaths are not offset by defensive gun use. As one study found, for every time a gun is used legally in self-defense at home, there are “four unintentional shootings, seven criminal assaults or homicides, and 11 attempted or completed suicides.” A study of adolescents in California found that there were 13 times as many threatening as self-defensive uses of guns. Of the defensive encounters, many arose in confrontations that became hostile because of the presence of a firearm.

In the overall suicide rate, the United States ranks roughly in the middle of the pack among industrialized nations. However, we are the exception when it comes to suicides among children between the ages of 5 and 14, with an overall rate twice the average of other developed nations. This stark difference is driven almost exclusively by a firearm-related suicide rate that is 10 times the average of other industrialized nations.
Adolescents living in states with higher gun prevalence suffer from higher rates of suicide. Adolescents who commit suicide are significantly more likely to live with firearms in their homes even after adjusting for various risk factors. The increased risk holds true regardless of how the firearm is stored or the type of gun. Firearms that are stored loaded have the highest risk, while safely stored guns (locked and unloaded) are much safer. Proper firearm storage can’t mitigate the entire risk of adolescent gun suicide, but it is a necessary step.
In terms of accidental fatalities, American children younger than 15 are nine times more likely to die by a gun accident than those in the rest of the developed world. Children living in states with higher levels of firearm availability also suffer from significantly higher rates of unintentional gun deaths. Studies indicate the vast majority of these shootings involve either family or friends. These statistics indicate that parents’ ownership of a weapon is a significant risk not only to their own children but also to their children’s friends. As a report from the New York Times revealed, accidental killings are

So I decided to look up actual statistics about children and access to guns, and I came up with this article- I have bolded the statistical data that I find compelling. It seems to make a pretty good argument against exposing children to firearms in general (not just Uzis):

No it makes a compelling argument that firearms handled or stored carelessly or inappropriately are dangerous. It does not provide any sort of compelling argument that children should not be exposed to any firearms when it is in a safe, controlled and appropriately supervised situation.

Well, maybe you're reading a different article than I am then, because it certainly DOES make the argument, IMO, that when you expose children to firearms, you are increasing the risk of harm by a large magnitude, and this is true no matter how many safety precautions you choose to take.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

I totally agree that hunters just like to kill. And they do it for the thrill of the kill. Same with fishermen. Or butterfly collectors. All vicious murders just getting high off of the thrill of killing.

Exactly. I go fishing every few weekends. If I did it for the thrill of the kill, I'd have stopped a long time ago, because I'm horrible at it and rarely catch anything. I don't even like to eat any of the kinds of fish I would hypothetically catch.

Admit it. You fish for the thrill of the kill. When you pull that fish out of the water you can't wait to bash it's wiggling body repeatedly against a rock. Maybe even have a smoke and cackle as you pluck it's eyeballs out. You are a monster!

As often as I go, I pity the poor fish I finally catch because it's going to have to feel the wrath of my pent up frustration from catching no fish for weeks. Oh, and before people get all worked up, I use lures, not worms, so none of god's creatures were harmed in my fishing.

Except for the fish... which you've already said you don't eat.

Do you swerve for bugs on the highway?

Do you squash them for no good reason?

Nope. Just like I don't kill fish for no good reason.

You don't kill them immediately. But by maiming them you simply prolong an inevitable torturous death. Good for you.

 

[[icon]]

I find it pretty ridiculous that gun advocates will denounce the idea of giving a nine year old an Uzi but will fight tooth and nail if someone actually suggests we make a law forbidding some of this stupid stuff from happening.

If the law makes sense I'm all for it.

Want to make it illegal for 9 yr olds to shoot UZI's? I'm right here with you.

Want to make guns illegal? You're insane... good luck with that.

Want to meet somewhere in the middle, let's talk.

Who is suggesting that?

By the tone of this thread I'm sure someone is. I'm laughing so hard it's getting tough to read though.

 

[[icon]]

This thread is awesome

 

[drummer]

I lock my tackle box when there are children around. Can you pull up stats of unlocked tackle boxes and kids tim? I hope I am doing the right thing. TIA.

 

[timschochet]

I find it pretty ridiculous that gun advocates will denounce the idea of giving a nine year old an Uzi but will fight tooth and nail if someone actually suggests we make a law forbidding some of this stupid stuff from happening.

If the law makes sense I'm all for it.

Want to make it illegal for 9 yr olds to shoot UZI's? I'm right here with you.

Want to make guns illegal? You're insane... good luck with that.

Want to meet somewhere in the middle, let's talk.

Who is suggesting that?

By the tone of this thread I'm sure someone is. I'm laughing so hard it's getting tough to read though.

Now you're the one trying to demonizes the other side. And you never responded to my proposals.

 

[Guest]

One of the important points that I got from that article is that the type of gun is not significant:

The increased risk holds true regardless of ,,, the type of gun

If this is so then perhaps we have placed too much emphasis on the fact that the 9 year old was using an Uzi. Any loaded gun in the hands of a child, no matter what the supervision, is equally dangerous. Perhaps we should consider outlawing it completely, and treating firearms like cars or cigarettes or alcohol- off limits to children.

I don't disagree with the intent of the statement...an Uzi is way out there in any situation, but do disagree that any loaded gun, regardless of the supervision, is EQUALLY as dangerous.

I think we'd all agree that a gun in the hands of a child alone in a room and a gun in the hands of a child supervised by an adult aren't apples-to-apples in the risk department, no? There is some level of safety provided by supervision. As to whether it is enough to justify allowing a child to shoot is the debateable point.

Look, gun advocates are very fond of using car analogies, so let's use one. Would you feel safe handing the keys of your car to your 9 year old, even if you were right there next to her to supervise? Would it make any difference what kind of car it was?

Depends on if we are talking about driving on the interstate or in a huge open field.

Not saying it's a great idea, but lots of farm kids drive equipment at a young age.

 

[timschochet]

I lock my tackle box when there are children around. Can you pull up stats of unlocked tackle boxes and kids tim? I hope I am doing the right thing. TIA.

Do you believe the stats I quoted are irrelevant or worthy of mockery? (and please don't bother responding with "everything you write is worthy of mockery"- I already know you think that.)

 

[[icon]]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

 

[[icon]]

By the tone of this thread I'm sure someone is. I'm laughing so hard it's getting tough to read though.

Now you're the one trying to demonizes the other side. And you never responded to my proposals.

You must have me confused with someone who takes your proposals (or any of this) seriously. I'm here for the lulz.

 

[jonessed]

I lock my tackle box when there are children around. Can you pull up stats of unlocked tackle boxes and kids tim? I hope I am doing the right thing. TIA.

That's good. Toddlers and bobbers don't mix.

 

[drummer]

I lock my tackle box when there are children around. Can you pull up stats of unlocked tackle boxes and kids tim? I hope I am doing the right thing. TIA.

Do you believe the stats I quoted are irrelevant or worthy of mockery?(and please don't bother responding with "everything you write is worthy of mockery"- I already know you think that.)

Well, I think stats can be skewed, and most children die from firearms not being locked or have easier access to them in the household. I have a family member in LE who also gave his wife a firearm, and their children were raised around them, even when he had an assault rifle issued because he was on the SWAT team. They had zero issues within the household because someone was trained and knew how to be a responsible gun owner.

 

[drummer]

I lock my tackle box when there are children around. Can you pull up stats of unlocked tackle boxes and kids tim? I hope I am doing the right thing. TIA.

That's good. Toddlers and bobbers don't mix.

Lol, no they don't.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

 

[[icon]]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

you don't say

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

you don't say

I don't get it.

 

[Ignoramus]

Anybody here own an Uzi?

Anybody here ever fire an Uzi?

No.

Yes...well...I don't think it was specifically an Uzi, but I shot an AK-47 and a German MP-40 at one of those ranges in Vegas.

Those are not Uzis. Both are much more controllable than an Uzi, but I would probably still wait until the kid is at least nine-and-a-half before letting her put either on full auto.

 

[Otis]

Why am I not shocked:

Less than two days after a 9-year-old girl in Arizona accidentally shot and killed a gun range instructor who was showing her how to fire an Uzi, the National Rifle Association on Wednesday touted new ways for children to "have fun" at shooting ranges.

The nation's largest gun lobby posted a tweet Wednesday afternoon to its NRA Women account that read "7 Ways Children Can Have Fun at the Shooting Range." The tweet included a link to an article with the same title published on the website of Women's Outdoor News. A little over an hour after posting it, NRA Women deleted the tweet without explanation.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/08/27/nra-children-gun-range_n_5725674.html

Unbelievable.

 

[Otis]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

you don't say

I don't get it.

I think it was another black guy joke.

 

[Otis]

My favorite posts in this thread are the ones that are along the lines of (I'm paraphrasing):

"I can't believe how stupid that instructor was, putting an Uzi in the hands of a nine year old girl, in full auto mode and with more than three bullets in the clip!!!"

Which of course implies that it's totally acceptable to give a nine year old girl an Uzi provided it's in non-auto mode and with 3 bullets in the clip.

:facepalm:

 

[Hot Diggity Dog]

I have often thought it would be really cool to experience a hunt like the native Americans did. I've gotten a taste of the rush that would be hunting big game with rifles but to go out with a spear and a non compound bow that be a rush. Maybe hunt seal like the Eskimos do. Some guys can tap into that primal feeling much easier than others, that is how some people call it a sport, although I wouldn't call it that. More like having sex, a primal experience.

Ah yes, killing and sex, the same. Not weird at all.

I'm sure if you use some of that well developed reading ability you display so often you might realize that there was a time and place where only animal killers got laid.

otis =

So de-evolution is the trump card in this?If we're going to go that route, why not just club the ##### over the head, drag her by the hair, and have your way?

Really how unevolved is it? Hot chicks have always given themselves to the guy that can provide the most. Why do hot chicks marry the rich old guy today? Same concept as back in the day except when meals are almost day to day it becomes much more important. Sorry but romantic love is a modern concept. If you extrapolate that to rape that be on you.I think most people understand but same thing different way. Having sex, at least good sex imo, is a primal act where you tap into more animalistic parts of your brain. Same thing when hunting, acting as a predator hits that same part of the brain I think. Explaining not really justifying.

 

[[icon]]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

you don't say

I don't get it.

I think it was another black guy joke.

X

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

you don't say

I don't get it.

I think it was another black guy joke.

X

Still don't get it.

 

[[icon]]

My favorite posts in this thread are the ones that are along the lines of (I'm paraphrasing):

"I can't believe how stupid that instructor was, putting an Uzi in the hands of a nine year old girl, in full auto mode and with more than three bullets in the clip!!!"

Which of course implies that it's totally acceptable to give a nine year old girl an Uzi provided it's in non-auto mode and with 3 bullets in the clip.

:facepalm:

Image

 

[Fat Nick]

As often as I go, I pity the poor fish I finally catch because it's going to have to feel the wrath of my pent up frustration from catching no fish for weeks. Oh, and before people get all worked up, I use lures, not worms, so none of god's creatures were harmed in my fishing.

Except for the fish... which you've already said you don't eat.

Do you swerve for bugs on the highway?

Do you squash them for no good reason?

Nope. Just like I don't kill fish for no good reason.

You don't kill them immediately. But by maiming them you simply prolong an inevitable torturous death. Good for you.

Attention FishingGuys - We can no longer fish. It has been deemed as cruel and unusual punishment. No matter how you hook them and release them, they WILL die a slow, painful death. Sorry guys. Time to find a new hobby....May I suggest:

1) Kinitting - Nope...can't do that. Taking wool from sheep would cause them to catch a cold.

2) Read more books The poor trees!

3) Go fly a kite But what if a bird were to strike your line?

4) Long walks on the beach Beaches are fragile ecosystems. If you walk on them, you kill millions of tiny crustaceans

I guess the only acceptable actions humans can take are ones that don't interact or kill anything. Enjoy being hermits everyone. At least we have the internet...

 

[Fat Nick]

Anybody here own an Uzi?

Anybody here ever fire an Uzi?

No.

Yes...well...I don't think it was specifically an Uzi, but I shot an AK-47 and a German MP-40 at one of those ranges in Vegas.

Those are not Uzis. Both are much more controllable than an Uzi, but I would probably still wait until the kid is at least nine-and-a-half before letting her put either on full auto.

So 9 1/2 for AK-47's and MP-40's...an extra half-year for the Uzi sufficient? So....10?

 

[George Jefferson Airplane]

Apparently Otis has written the local paper to drive his point home.

LINK

 

[drummer]

As often as I go, I pity the poor fish I finally catch because it's going to have to feel the wrath of my pent up frustration from catching no fish for weeks. Oh, and before people get all worked up, I use lures, not worms, so none of god's creatures were harmed in my fishing.

Except for the fish... which you've already said you don't eat.

Do you swerve for bugs on the highway?

Do you squash them for no good reason?

Nope. Just like I don't kill fish for no good reason.

You don't kill them immediately. But by maiming them you simply prolong an inevitable torturous death. Good for you.

Attention FishingGuys - We can no longer fish. It has been deemed as cruel and unusual punishment. No matter how you hook them and release them, they WILL die a slow, painful death. Sorry guys. Time to find a new hobby....May I suggest:

1) Kinitting - Nope...can't do that. Taking wool from sheep would cause them to catch a cold.

2) Read more books The poor trees!

3) Go fly a kite But what if a bird were to strike your line?

4) Long walks on the beach Beaches are fragile ecosystems. If you walk on them, you kill millions of tiny crustaceans

I guess the only acceptable actions humans can take are ones that don't interact or kill anything. Enjoy being hermits everyone. At least we have the internet...

Forgot this:

5) Read the FFA? Nope, you're killing brain cells doing that.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

As often as I go, I pity the poor fish I finally catch because it's going to have to feel the wrath of my pent up frustration from catching no fish for weeks. Oh, and before people get all worked up, I use lures, not worms, so none of god's creatures were harmed in my fishing.

Except for the fish... which you've already said you don't eat.

Do you swerve for bugs on the highway?

Do you squash them for no good reason?

Nope. Just like I don't kill fish for no good reason.

You don't kill them immediately. But by maiming them you simply prolong an inevitable torturous death. Good for you.

Attention FishingGuys - We can no longer fish. It has been deemed as cruel and unusual punishment. No matter how you hook them and release them, they WILL die a slow, painful death. Sorry guys. Time to find a new hobby....May I suggest:

1) Kinitting - Nope...can't do that. Taking wool from sheep would cause them to catch a cold.

2) Read more books The poor trees!

3) Go fly a kite But what if a bird were to strike your line?

4) Long walks on the beach Beaches are fragile ecosystems. If you walk on them, you kill millions of tiny crustaceans

I guess the only acceptable actions humans can take are ones that don't interact or kill anything. Enjoy being hermits everyone. At least we have the internet...

Who said this?

 

[Zow]

Jesus Christ, I'm not even a hunter but I sure do hope none of you anti hunting guys broke a leg

climbing down from your high horse.

FTR I never said I was anti-hunting...because I'm not.

Same here. I said I think it's stupid but should be

permitted.

I don't even think it's that stupid of an activity and I enjoy the spoils of it (venison jerky rules).I was just irked at the indignation that hunters don't take any joy in the activity of killing. Those that deny that are the ones on the high horse (or some tree stand where they sit in below 0 weather at 6 am to kill animals).

There is a middle ground between not taking any joy in the activity and some sort of unbridled blood lust that some in here seem to think all hunters have. HTH.

This has essentially been my point. Again, to put this discussion into context, it began with people arguing against Tanner's satirical point that hunting is dumb because a father is teaching his son to go brutally kill something for fun by stating that the reason for hunting is simply for food. But, since there is some enjoyment in the kill (I'm not at all suggesting some serial killer level bloodlust) then that response would be disingenuous.

Maybe I should list my personal beliefs so that my statements aren't immediately discounted as coming from some legislating-loving liberal.

1. I believe the second Amendment allows people of age to own guns. I don't think our government should outlaw gun ownership and would advocate against any legislation which makes gun ownership illegal.

2. Despite my legal support of gun ownership, I believe the disadvantages to owning a gun (i.e. the risk of unintended injury) far outweigh the advantages (minimal protection, perceived comfort, recreation). So much so that I would put gun ownership into the "wow, that's an incredibly stupid thing to do" basket - along with things like smoking, riding a motorcycle without a helmet or leather, and drug abuse. I find it so stupid that I tend to be a bit more vocal about it than I am on other topics.

3. A nine year old doesn't really have rights. Therefore I wouldn't oppose legislation restricting gun possession based on age - kind of like we do with marriage.

 

[Zow]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

It's like an episode of Family Guy.

 

[Officer Pete Malloy]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

It's like an episode of Family Guy.

LINK

 

[Fat Nick]

As often as I go, I pity the poor fish I finally catch because it's going to have to feel the wrath of my pent up frustration from catching no fish for weeks. Oh, and before people get all worked up, I use lures, not worms, so none of god's creatures were harmed in my fishing.

Except for the fish... which you've already said you don't eat.

Do you swerve for bugs on the highway?

Do you squash them for no good reason?

Nope. Just like I don't kill fish for no good reason.

You don't kill them immediately. But by maiming them you simply prolong an inevitable torturous death. Good for you.

Attention FishingGuys - We can no longer fish. It has been deemed as cruel and unusual punishment. No matter how you hook them and release them, they WILL die a slow, painful death. Sorry guys. Time to find a new hobby....May I suggest:

1) Kinitting - Nope...can't do that. Taking wool from sheep would cause them to catch a cold.

2) Read more books The poor trees!

3) Go fly a kite But what if a bird were to strike your line?

4) Long walks on the beach Beaches are fragile ecosystems. If you walk on them, you kill millions of tiny crustaceans

I guess the only acceptable actions humans can take are ones that don't interact or kill anything. Enjoy being hermits everyone. At least we have the internet...

Who said this?

In the purest sense, I did...but I inferred from Tom Skerritt that it was impossible to catch and release a fish without "prolong[ing] an inevitable torturous death," and I got the sense that he wasn't OK with that.

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

 

[Fat Nick]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

It would appear so...and it's hilarious.

 

[Otis]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

It's like an episode of Family Guy.

LINK

http://comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp4790074.jpg

 

[El Floppo]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

It's like an episode of Family Guy.

LINK

http://comps.canstockphoto.com/can-stock-photo_csp4790074.jpg

 

[Jayrod]

This seems pretty relevant for here.

 

[Sammy3469]

What we're kind of kicking around right now is like at Disneyland, you know if you're," he said, gesturing with his hand, "not this tall, you can't shoot."

Although there's no state law dictating an age requirement, the range has a self-imposed age limit of eight years old, Scarmardo said.

"We've got some pretty big, we grow some pretty big 8-year-olders out here in Arizona," Scarmardo said.

The young girl, shown wearing pink shorts and sporting a braided ponytail in a video detailing the moments before the fatal shooting accident, although slight, was nine years old.

"This was a very mature young lady and something she wanted to do and her parents were treating her," Scarmardo said. "You know this was a big, something that was high on her bucket list to do."

Just unbelievable...keep on, keeping on you gun lovers

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sam-scarmardo-arizona-gun-range-accident

 

[Tom Skerritt]

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

Swallow a shark-sized hook, and then have someone rip it out of your throat. Do it several times, since you don't seem to have a problem with it. It won't kill you.

 

[[icon]]

Icon: Are you just posting random pictures?

My Image

 

[zDragon]

Jesus Christ, I'm not even a hunter but I sure do hope none of you anti hunting guys broke a leg

climbing down from your high horse.

FTR I never said I was anti-hunting...because I'm not.

Same here. I said I think it's stupid but should be

permitted.

I don't even think it's that stupid of an activity and I enjoy the spoils of it (venison jerky rules).I was just irked at the indignation that hunters don't take any joy in the activity of killing. Those that deny that are the ones on the high horse (or some tree stand where they sit in below 0 weather at 6 am to kill animals).

There is a middle ground between not taking any joy in the activity and some sort of unbridled blood lust that some in here seem to think all hunters have. HTH.

This has essentially been my point. Again, to put this discussion into context, it began with people arguing against Tanner's satirical point that hunting is dumb because a father is teaching his son to go brutally kill something for fun by stating that the reason for hunting is simply for food. But, since there is some enjoyment in the kill (I'm not at all suggesting some serial killer level bloodlust) then that response would be disingenuous.

Maybe I should list my personal beliefs so that my statements aren't immediately discounted as coming from some legislating-loving liberal.

1. I believe the second Amendment allows people of age to own guns. I don't think our government should outlaw gun ownership and would advocate against any legislation which makes gun ownership illegal.

2. Despite my legal support of gun ownership, I believe the disadvantages to owning a gun (i.e. the risk of unintended injury) far outweigh the advantages (minimal protection, perceived comfort, recreation). So much so that I would put gun ownership into the "wow, that's an incredibly stupid thing to do" basket - along with things like smoking, riding a motorcycle without a helmet or leather, and drug abuse. I find it so stupid that I tend to be a bit more vocal about it than I am on other topics.

3. A nine year old doesn't really have rights. Therefore I wouldn't oppose legislation restricting gun possession based on age - kind of like we do with marriage.

Sure they do.

 

[drummer]

What we're kind of kicking around right now is like at Disneyland, you know if you're," he said, gesturing with his hand, "not this tall, you can't shoot."

Although there's no state law dictating an age requirement, the range has a self-imposed age limit of eight years old, Scarmardo said.

"We've got some pretty big, we grow some pretty big 8-year-olders out here in Arizona," Scarmardo said.

The young girl, shown wearing pink shorts and sporting a braided ponytail in a video detailing the moments before the fatal shooting accident, although slight, was nine years old.

"This was a very mature young lady and something she wanted to do and her parents were treating her," Scarmardo said. "You know this was a big, something that was high on her bucket list to do."

Just unbelievable...keep on, keeping on you gun lovers

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sam-scarmardo-arizona-gun-range-accident

Arizona should just go ahead and secede from the US. What a joke of a state.

 

[Zow]

What we're kind of kicking around right now is like at Disneyland, you know if you're," he said, gesturing with his hand, "not this tall, you can't shoot."

Although there's no state law dictating an age requirement, the range has a self-imposed age limit of eight years old, Scarmardo said.

"We've got some pretty big, we grow some pretty big 8-year-olders out here in Arizona," Scarmardo said.

The young girl, shown wearing pink shorts and sporting a braided ponytail in a video detailing the moments before the fatal shooting accident, although slight, was nine years old.

"This was a very mature young lady and something she wanted to do and her parents were treating her," Scarmardo said. "You know this was a big, something that was high on her bucket list to do."

Just unbelievable...keep on, keeping on you gun lovers

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sam-scarmardo-arizona-gun-range-accident

Frankly I'm shocked Sam agreed to an interview with msnbc. He's about as right-winged as it gets.

 

[Zow]

What we're kind of kicking around right now is like at Disneyland, you know if you're," he said, gesturing with his hand, "not this tall, you can't shoot."

Although there's no state law dictating an age requirement, the range has a self-imposed age limit of eight years old, Scarmardo said.

"We've got some pretty big, we grow some pretty big 8-year-olders out here in Arizona," Scarmardo said.

The young girl, shown wearing pink shorts and sporting a braided ponytail in a video detailing the moments before the fatal shooting accident, although slight, was nine years old.

"This was a very mature young lady and something she wanted to do and her parents were treating her," Scarmardo said. "You know this was a big, something that was high on her bucket list to do."

Just unbelievable...keep on, keeping on you gun lovers

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/livewire/sam-scarmardo-arizona-gun-range-accident

Arizona should just go ahead and secede from the US. What a joke of a state.

I wish I had a comeback to this. My hope is that in a generation or two the knucklehead religious right which votes other knuckleheads into office will be gone.

 

[CBusAlex]

I find it pretty ridiculous that gun advocates will denounce the idea of giving a nine year old an Uzi but will fight tooth and nail if someone actually suggests we make a law forbidding some of this stupid stuff from happening.

If the law makes sense I'm all for it.

Want to make it illegal for 9 yr olds to shoot UZI's? I'm right here with you.

Want to make guns illegal? You're insane... good luck with that.

Want to meet somewhere in the middle, let's talk.

Who is suggesting that?

By the tone of this thread I'm sure someone is. I'm laughing so hard it's getting tough to read though.

And this, in a nutshell, is why the NRA and their supporters will always fight against all gun control of any sort. They're full of people like Icon who claim to be for reasonable regulation, but when someone proposes a law against, say, giving assault rifles to pre-teens, they'll decide from "the tone" that it must really be about banning all guns forever, and thus must be opposed.

 

[Ignoramus]

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

Swallow a shark-sized hook, and then have someone rip it out of your throat. Do it several times, since you don't seem to have a problem with it. It won't kill you.

 

[TheIronSheik]

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

Swallow a shark-sized hook, and then have someone rip it out of your throat. Do it several times, since you don't seem to have a problem with it. It won't kill you.

Swim underwater for a day without coming up. Fish can do it so I guess it won't hurt you.

 

[Tom Skerritt]

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

Swallow a shark-sized hook, and then have someone rip it out of your throat. Do it several times, since you don't seem to have a problem with it. It won't kill you.

Swim underwater for a day without coming up. Fish can do it so I guess it won't hurt you.

Huh?

 

[TheIronSheik]

FWIW - catching a fish <> killing it. You can very often catch a fish without killing it. In fact, there are many reports of tagged fish being caught several times in some of the big lakes around here...sometimes even by the same people. But these facts get lost on some who, since they don't do it, can't understand why anyone short of a barbarian could possibly do anything to harm another life intentionally.

Swallow a shark-sized hook, and then have someone rip it out of your throat. Do it several times, since you don't seem to have a problem with it. It won't kill you.

Swim underwater for a day without coming up. Fish can do it so I guess it won't hurt you.

Huh?

You're comparing fish to humans. I thought I'd do the same.