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A Christmas Gift for Atheists (1 Viewer)

Jayrok

Jayrok

Footballguy
Five reasons why God exists.

LinktoGift

1. God provides the best explanation of the origin of the universe. Given the scientific evidence we have about our universe and its origins, and bolstered by arguments presented by philosophers for centuries, it is highly probable that the universe had an absolute beginning. Since the universe, like everything else, could not have merely popped into being without a cause, there must exist a transcendent reality beyond time and space that brought the universe into existence. This entity must therefore be enormously powerful. Only a transcendent, unembodied mind suitably fits that description.

2. God provides the best explanation for the fine-tuning of the universe. Contemporary physics has established that the universe is fine-tuned for the existence of intelligent, interactive life. That is to say, in order for intelligent, interactive life to exist, the fundamental constants and quantities of nature must fall into an incomprehensibly narrow life-permitting range. There are three competing explanations of this remarkable fine-tuning: physical necessity, chance, or design. The first two are highly implausible, given the independence of the fundamental constants and quantities from nature's laws and the desperate maneuvers needed to save the hypothesis of chance. That leaves design as the best explanation.

3. God provides the best explanation of objective moral values and duties. Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil. But if atheism is true, what basis is there for the objectivity of the moral values we affirm? Evolution? Social conditioning? These factors may at best produce in us the subjective feeling that there are objective moral values and duties, but they do nothing to provide a basis for them. If human evolution had taken a different path, a very different set of moral feelings might have evolved. By contrast, God Himself serves as the paradigm of goodness, and His commandments constitute our moral duties. Thus, theism provides a better explanation of objective moral values and duties.

4. God provides the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Historians have reached something of consensus that the historical Jesus thought that in himself God’s Kingdom had broken into human history, and he carried out a ministry of miracle-working and exorcisms as evidence of that fact. Moreover, most historical scholars agree that after his crucifixion Jesus’ tomb was discovered empty by a group of female disciples, that various individuals and groups saw appearances of Jesus alive after his death, and that the original disciples suddenly and sincerely came to believe in Jesus’ resurrection despite their every predisposition to the contrary. I can think of no better explanation of these facts than the one the original disciples gave: God raised Jesus from the dead.

5. God can be personally known and experienced. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Down through history Christians have found through Jesus a personal acquaintance with God that has transformed their lives.
Click to expand...
Atheists--------> Check Mate.

 
Jayrok, last year I posted, for the purposes of discussion and refutation, 36 reasons why God exists, which included every known argument that's ever been made. All 5 of your reasons were encapsulated in that article. They weren't even, in my mind, the most convincing (for me that, was Spinoza's god, which is a concept I believe most atheists can get behind.)

 
timschochet said:
Jayrok, last year I posted, for the purposes of discussion and refutation, 36 reasons why God exists, which included every known argument that's ever been made. All 5 of your reasons were encapsulated in that article. They weren't even, in my mind, the most convincing (for me that, was Spinoza's god, which is a concept I believe most atheists can get behind.)
Click to expand...
There are only 36 reasons why people think god exists?

 
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?

 
timschochet said:
Jayrok, last year I posted, for the purposes of discussion and refutation, 36 reasons why God exists, which included every known argument that's ever been made. All 5 of your reasons were encapsulated in that article. They weren't even, in my mind, the most convincing (for me that, was Spinoza's god, which is a concept I believe most atheists can get behind.)
Click to expand...
It's a gift, timschochet. It may not be the best gift you receive this holiday season, nor the most expensive.

 
Down through history Christians have found through Jesus a personal acquaintance with God that has transformed their lives.

And through most of that same history, Jews, atheists, and other non-Christians have found through Jesus a personal acquaintance that has ended many of their lives.

 
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
The Bible justifies God's will. I would imagine that if the Holocaust occured during biblical times and an account of it was included in the OT, it would be depicted as an event selected by God to punish the Jewish people for turning to foreign idol worship.

Since it was post-biblical times, philosophers like Mr. Craig might look upon it as an objectively evil act carried out by an evil madman.

 
Jayrok said:
Five reasons why God exists.

LinktoGift

1. God provides the best explanation of the origin of the universe. Given the scientific evidence we have about our universe and its origins, and bolstered by arguments presented by philosophers for centuries, it is highly probable that the universe had an absolute beginning. Since the universe, like everything else, could not have merely popped into being without a cause, there must exist a transcendent reality beyond time and space that brought the universe into existence. This entity must therefore be enormously powerful. Only a transcendent, unembodied mind suitably fits that description.

2. God provides the best explanation for the fine-tuning of the universe. Contemporary physics has established that the universe is fine-tuned for the existence of intelligent, interactive life. That is to say, in order for intelligent, interactive life to exist, the fundamental constants and quantities of nature must fall into an incomprehensibly narrow life-permitting range. There are three competing explanations of this remarkable fine-tuning: physical necessity, chance, or design. The first two are highly implausible, given the independence of the fundamental constants and quantities from nature's laws and the desperate maneuvers needed to save the hypothesis of chance. That leaves design as the best explanation.

3. God provides the best explanation of objective moral values and duties. Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil. But if atheism is true, what basis is there for the objectivity of the moral values we affirm? Evolution? Social conditioning? These factors may at best produce in us the subjective feeling that there are objective moral values and duties, but they do nothing to provide a basis for them. If human evolution had taken a different path, a very different set of moral feelings might have evolved. By contrast, God Himself serves as the paradigm of goodness, and His commandments constitute our moral duties. Thus, theism provides a better explanation of objective moral values and duties.

4. God provides the best explanation of the historical facts concerning Jesus’ life, death, and resurrection. Historians have reached something of consensus that the historical Jesus thought that in himself God’s Kingdom had broken into human history, and he carried out a ministry of miracle-working and exorcisms as evidence of that fact. Moreover, most historical scholars agree that after his crucifixion Jesus’ tomb was discovered empty by a group of female disciples, that various individuals and groups saw appearances of Jesus alive after his death, and that the original disciples suddenly and sincerely came to believe in Jesus’ resurrection despite their every predisposition to the contrary. I can think of no better explanation of these facts than the one the original disciples gave: God raised Jesus from the dead.

5. God can be personally known and experienced. The proof of the pudding is in the tasting. Down through history Christians have found through Jesus a personal acquaintance with God that has transformed their lives.
Click to expand...
Atheists--------> Check Mate.
Click to expand...
1) So, the universe, because it is so big and awesome, requires a creator of some sort. However, a creator does not require one, because logic fail?

2) I don't think you grasp scale. When things approach infinity in size, the improbable becomes routine and expected. Logic fail #2?

3) Could you be any fuller of yourself? Morality only comes from god and god alone? Please. There is no logic at play in this fail.

4) Really? The evidence of a historical Jesus is weak and inconsistant and written accounts are from long after all of the principle actors were dead. I suppose you think everything written is true. Please take a quick look around the internet and get back to me.

5) What about my personal relationship with Zeus? Or am I crazy for thinking that I have one?

Nevermind.

Short answer: I just check mated in my underpants

 
Jayrok said:
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
The Bible justifies God's will. I would imagine that if the Holocaust occured during biblical times and an account of it was included in the OT, it would be depicted as an event selected by God to punish the Jewish people for turning to foreign idol worship.

Since it was post-biblical times, philosophers like Mr. Craig might look upon it as an objectively evil act carried out by an evil madman.
Click to expand...
are you ####### kidding me here?

 
Jayrok said:
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
The Bible justifies God's will. I would imagine that if the Holocaust occured during biblical times and an account of it was included in the OT, it would be depicted as an event selected by God to punish the Jewish people for turning to foreign idol worship.

Since it was post-biblical times, philosophers apologists like Mr. Craig might look upon it as an objectively evil act carried out by an evil madman.
Click to expand...
So genocide is justified if it is Biblically justified, but atheists are the moral relativists. Got it.

 
Jayrok said:
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
The Bible justifies God's will. I would imagine that if the Holocaust occured during biblical times and an account of it was included in the OT, it would be depicted as an event selected by God to punish the Jewish people for turning to foreign idol worship.

Since it was post-biblical times, philosophers like Mr. Craig might look upon it as an objectively evil act carried out by an evil madman.
Click to expand...
If there are different ways of looking at the Holocaust, then the term "objective" seems out of place, doesn't it?

Now personally I happen to regard the Holocaust as objectively evil. But I don't derive that conclusion from religious teachings- in fact, I would argue that there is NO WAY one can reach such a conclusion from religious teachings. Religion, and in this case Judeo-Christianity, is an insufficient source for objective morality.

 
Ramsay Hunt Experience said:
Jayrok said:
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
The Bible justifies God's will. I would imagine that if the Holocaust occured during biblical times and an account of it was included in the OT, it would be depicted as an event selected by God to punish the Jewish people for turning to foreign idol worship.

Since it was post-biblical times, philosophers apologists like Mr. Craig might look upon it as an objectively evil act carried out by an evil madman.
Click to expand...
So genocide is justified if it is Biblically justified, but atheists are the moral relativists. Got it.
Click to expand...
well.. yeah

 
timschochet said:
Jayrok, your article states:

Even atheists recognize that some things, for example, the Holocaust, are objectively evil.

Where exactly in Scripture would one discover that the mass killing of masses of innocent people is objectively evil? Doesn't the Bible, in fact, justify similar actions on several occasions?
Click to expand...
Looks like Craig has a lot of stuff on his website.

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/slaughter-of-the-canaanites

http://www.reasonablefaith.org/the-slaughter-of-the-canaanites-re-visited

 
Maybe a bit more respect would be a welcome "present" rather than push someone else's theology upon them. :shrug:

 
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