einstein2u
Footballguy
Thinking of starting him over Edge this week.....
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A. Green.... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter einstein2u
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Big Score
Footballguy
Missed last year huh?
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Ugggh. No.
Ahman Green is not back at all. Just took advantage of a defense who was playing the pass in a blowout.
Ahman Green is not back at all. Just took advantage of a defense who was playing the pass in a blowout.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
From the minute the Bears went up 13, they dropped at least 6 just about every play. He is the epitome of someone you should sell high right now.
jurb26
Footballguy
Yeah because his team will be down by 16 early every week as well as playing the best D in the NFL on a weekly basis.
SSOG
Moderator
Whether they were playing pass or not, that was a pretty damn good defense he took advantage of, no? And he still at least managed 3.9 yards per carry against this pretty damn good defense in the first half, right?From 2000 to 2004, Green posted
1734 total yards, 13 total TDs, 4.5 ypc
1981 total yards, 11 total TDs, 4.6 ypc
1633 total yards, 9 total TDs, 4.3 ypc
2250 total yards, 20 total TDs, 5.3 ypc
1534 total yards, 8 TDs, 4.5 ypc (numbers prorated over 16 games- he only played in 15)
Now, I think the 2003 campaign stands out as a total fluke (the ypc especially jumps out and catches my eye), but I don't see why he can't replicate his numbers from the other 4 seasons, assuming he manages to stay healthy. Of course, that's a very big question mark, but 1600 yards and 10 TDs should be very achievable if he can.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
How does this pertain to A Green being a sell high right now?People will see that he put up 110 against the one of the best Ds in the league and think that he's still got it.The reality is, he got a bunch of rushing yards because they were basically handed to him with the Bears D playing against the pass.Before 16-08/25 rushing 2/19 recAfter 16-012/85 rush 1/3 recCouple that with the fact that he's running behing a line with 2 rookie guards, and a team that's going to spend a lot of time behind, and the future's not very bright.He proved nothing on Sunday and until he does, he's a sell high due to the good numbers.Yeah because his team will be down by 16 early every week as well as playing the best D in the NFL on a weekly basis.
SSOG
Moderator
You're making contradictary points here.First you say that Ahman Green only had any value this week because his team was so far behind. Then you say that Ahman Green won't have much value this season because his team will routinely be behind. Which is it?How does this pertain to A Green being a sell high right now?People will see that he put up 110 against the one of the best Ds in the league and think that he's still got it.The reality is, he got a bunch of rushing yards because they were basically handed to him with the Bears D playing against the pass.Before 16-08/25 rushing 2/19 recAfter 16-012/85 rush 1/3 recCouple that with the fact that he's running behing a line with 2 rookie guards, and a team that's going to spend a lot of time behind, and the future's not very bright.He proved nothing on Sunday and until he does, he's a sell high due to the good numbers.Yeah because his team will be down by 16 early every week as well as playing the best D in the NFL on a weekly basis.
jurb26
Footballguy
Lord this is just asinine. He proved nothing huh? How about he proved that he was HEALTHY? Or how about he proved that he had his burst back? What about the fact that he proved he was the unquestioned starter and go to RB?I know you are a Bears fan and probably hate anything that is the Pack. Try to at least use some common sense though. All of the above where highly questioned and debated heading into this year. He provided answers to all of the above yesterday.
jurb26
Footballguy
I think it's become very evident he just hates A. Green because he is a Packer. Nothing more to see here, move along.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Do you really think the playcalling is going to stay the same when they are behind? It didn't work on Sunday, I doubt they try it again.If they do keep it the same, they might as well start printing the Welcome Brady Quinn banners for training camp next year.You're making contradictary points here.First you say that Ahman Green only had any value this week because his team was so far behind. Then you say that Ahman Green won't have much value this season because his team will routinely be behind. Which is it?How does this pertain to A Green being a sell high right now?People will see that he put up 110 against the one of the best Ds in the league and think that he's still got it.The reality is, he got a bunch of rushing yards because they were basically handed to him with the Bears D playing against the pass.Before 16-08/25 rushing 2/19 recAfter 16-012/85 rush 1/3 recCouple that with the fact that he's running behing a line with 2 rookie guards, and a team that's going to spend a lot of time behind, and the future's not very bright.He proved nothing on Sunday and until he does, he's a sell high due to the good numbers.Yeah because his team will be down by 16 early every week as well as playing the best D in the NFL on a weekly basis.
Kleck.
Footballguy
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
Sorry, but I am not a believer. He has looked slow and weak ever since the Pack way overused him during his huge 2000 yards 20 TD season.
Green was terrible last season even before his horrendous injury. The pack has not improved at all since that time.
I actually think Gado is the better RB on that team.
Green was terrible last season even before his horrendous injury. The pack has not improved at all since that time.
I actually think Gado is the better RB on that team.
Sweetness_34
Footballguy
2 things
- Green got at least 50 yards after the Bears played prevent. There were at least 2 runs where Green riped off 11 and 10+ yards when it was 3rd and really long and the Bears dropped everyone back to prevent a 1st down.....so think about this one a little more
- NO defense is still not that great
So, there are 2 contradictory factors at stake here. I would start Green but be tempered in your expectations this weekend.
- Green got at least 50 yards after the Bears played prevent. There were at least 2 runs where Green riped off 11 and 10+ yards when it was 3rd and really long and the Bears dropped everyone back to prevent a 1st down.....so think about this one a little more
- NO defense is still not that great
So, there are 2 contradictory factors at stake here. I would start Green but be tempered in your expectations this weekend.
Kleck.
Footballguy
Did you miss the past 4 months?
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
It is common sense. There was no burst. The entire defense, outside of the D Line, was takinga step back at the snap expecting a pass. Any NFL RB can gain 5-6 yards a carry when that happens. I will give you healthy, and he was the unquestioned back for the entire game,.
But please note that my main point is that he is the epitome of a sell high right now
A Later Round Draft Pick running back
With a history of success
Coming off a major injury
playing for a team that will be behind early and often
with an offensive line that has two rookie guards
coming off a game with good stats against a great defense
= a sell highTell me how that is not common sense?
a_rackowski
Footballguy
The Packers played perhaps the best defense in the league last week. Ahman green is NOT going to be playing from behind as often as some here would like to suggest. The Packers are not the worst team in the league.
The packers have 2 solid guys on the corners, and some real nice LBs. They have a HOF at QB, and some pretty talented WR.
They lost 6 games last year by 3 points or less and 8 by 7 points or less. Its a little early to write them off as "a team that will be playing from behind".
The packers have 2 solid guys on the corners, and some real nice LBs. They have a HOF at QB, and some pretty talented WR.
They lost 6 games last year by 3 points or less and 8 by 7 points or less. Its a little early to write them off as "a team that will be playing from behind".
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
No I saw them, along with last season. IMO Gado runs with more authority than Green at this point in his waning career.
jurb26
Footballguy
Green is not in an ideal situation. There is no questioning that and that GB is a terrible team. He is the starting, healthy and unquestioned RB in GB however. His team sucks and yeah could be palying from behind a good amount. Lucky thing for Green he is, was and always has been utilized in the GB passing game. That was no different in the Chi game where he caught 3 passes. The Ds he faces will be easier than they were this week with exception to the next time they play Chi. To assume that he will have worse success when you acknowledge how good this D is seems foolish to me. Especially when you factor that GB has No TEs and only one WR to speak of in the passing game and he has istorically been targeted there as well. To each his own.
I'm still not sure why Green's performance can be construed as anything other than encouraging. He has not put up stats like this in a long time. He was injured most of last year and looks to be relatively healthy. Even if GB is not as good as it has been in the past AND Green is not as good as he was in 2000, that still leaves plenty of room for him to be a pretty huge steal for all those people that got him in the later rounds of drafts. 1400 total yards and 7-9 TDs is what I see from Green this year if he doesn't get hurt.I don't give a damn if GB was behind when Green got his yards. If you watched in 2000, Green racked up tons of yards while GB was playing catchup. Historically, many of Green's receptions come when GB is way behind as well. Nobody is asking how Green would do this year if he faced a top defense every week with that defense keying on him. What people want to know is whether Green is going to be the focus of the GB offense. It sure looks that way to me. It looks that way to Gado too if you believe the press out of GB.
jurb26
Footballguy
Gado is a below average RB. Its really that simple. Its a shame people are taking so long to see this.
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a_rackowski
Footballguy
Do you seriously think NFL defenses play this way? By "taking a step back anticipating a pass"? Dude - your so wrong.
So what you are telling me is that Lamont Jordan should have had 100 yards in Monday Nights game? Cause I got news for you - Lamont Jordan is a pretty decent back and he didnt. He had 20 yards.
So what you are telling me is that Carnell Williams should have had 100 yards? Cause he didnt. He had 22 yards.
September 18th 2005 - vs Detroit. Bears win 38-6. Kevin Jones......22 yards rushing.
October 16th 2005 vs Minnesota. Mewelde Moore 57 yards including one 25 yarder. Bears 28, vikes 3.
December 19th 2005 GB vs Balt. Balt wins 48-3. Gado has 46 yards rushing with a long of 25.
With due respect sir, I do not see your point, and I happen to think your statement about NFL Defenses is a farce.
It's pretty obvious that Ahman Green has more value today than he did a week ago, or 6 months ago. He has proven he can get 20 carries, proven he can still play in the NFL, and put up nice numbers against a good D, even if the game wasn't so competitive. As other posters have pointed out, lots of RBs have failed to put up good numbers in similar situations.
On the other hand, Green is not the Ahman Green of 2000 and never will be. Is he a sell-high candidate? Sure - if there's someone in your league willing to buy high. I've got him in one of my leagues and if someone makes me an offer along the lines of Carson Palmer (2QB league) I'd take it in a heartbeat. If someone offered me McGahee, I'd take that too. Of course, in both of these cases, I'd be getting a player who was drafted much higher than Green in our draft a few weeks ago.
More than anything, Green reminds of me of Stephen Davis. All the sharks thought he was done finished kaput, but he came back and put up some valualbe stats last year. Green will do the same.
On the other hand, Green is not the Ahman Green of 2000 and never will be. Is he a sell-high candidate? Sure - if there's someone in your league willing to buy high. I've got him in one of my leagues and if someone makes me an offer along the lines of Carson Palmer (2QB league) I'd take it in a heartbeat. If someone offered me McGahee, I'd take that too. Of course, in both of these cases, I'd be getting a player who was drafted much higher than Green in our draft a few weeks ago.
More than anything, Green reminds of me of Stephen Davis. All the sharks thought he was done finished kaput, but he came back and put up some valualbe stats last year. Green will do the same.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Let's just narrow it down to this weekend's gamesLamont Jordan - 10 carries
C Williams - 8 carries
Green - 20 carries
With all due respect sir, did you even watch the Bears/Packers game? If not, how in the hell can you tell me what happened?
With all due respect sir, did I make a comment on NFL defenses as a whole? If not, and we can all plainly see that I didn't, what is the relevance of your statement stating that what I said is a farce.
With all due respect sir, you are losing the arguement.
Being a Bear's fan, I hate to disagree with someone who uses Da Coach as his screen name, but Ahman looked strong from the beginning of the game, until the end. He took some hard hits and made some quick moves. I am not discounting that some of the yards came when the Bear's were playing from ahead, but that is the reality of the game, and the reality of what the Pack face this year. Ahman is still pretty young, so if he is truly healed from his injury, he could produce for a couple of years.
tribecalledjeff
Footballguy
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Did he look strong on either of the 3rd and 1s that they failed to convert in the first half?
SSOG
Moderator
Why do you think it will change? What possible indications have you received that the playcalling will change? And do you honestly believe that it was Green Bay's insistance on calling running plays in the second half that cost them the game? Do you really believe that, if they finish last in the NFL, it'll be because they call runs in games that they're already losing by 3 scores?
Let's look at those 3 RBs even more. All 3 played in a blowout. Jordan had 2.0 ypc, Williams had 2.75 ypc, and Green had 5.5 ypc. All three were playing in the same situation. Even if you want to go with first halves only, Green still had 3.9 ypc against a tougher defense (arguably).With all due respect, sir... please don't tell anyone that you're beating them in an arguement. Everyone in an arguement always thinks their winning. Only 50% of people in arguements actually win. Conclusion? Half of the time people think they're winning an arguement, they're really losing. Please, let your arguements speak for themselves and let everyone else decide for themselves who is presenting the better arguements.
I still think you're making contradictary arguements. You say that Ahman Green only had value because he was behind. You say that Green won't have value in the future because his team will continue to be behind. When I point out the paradox of your arguements to you, you say something about how the team will not continue to run when behind... but you provide no evidence to back this up. Has there been some dramatic offensive shift in the past 24 hours? Is there a new offensive coordinator? Has the head coach come out and said running while behind was a huge mistake and vowed not to do it again? Why are you drawing the conclusion that the coaches in Green Bay will drastically change their playcalling tendencies? From personal experience, I can tell you that coaches don't often change their stripes in midseason. Deuce McAllister in 2003 stands out in my mind- New Orleans called an unnaturally high percentage of runs when they were trailing, and that pattern held true through the entire season.
I would look at Ahman Green and say I saw the following positives. First, he demonstrated that he's healthy. Second, he demonstrated that he's the workhorse. Third, he demonstrated that he can grind out tough yards against a phenominal defense (3.9 ypc in the first half). Fourth, he demonstrated that he will not be phased out of the offensive gameplan when Green Bay is trailing. All in all, I would consider this week a tremendous reassurance.
Pigskin Fanatic
Footballguy
i think the point was that the defense was playing the pass so green had more room to run and pick up the short yardage leading to the majority of his yardage coming in the second half. this is probably true, but then the poster should consider that chicago stuffed the run in the first half as they will to many many teams this year. green's performance definitely is promising as jurb said, though it remains to be seen how far he can go in this offense. good sleeper with great upside if you can trade for him cheap. personally i think green will end up a great RB2 throughout the year.
StuntMonkee
Footballguy
This is a lame argument. . . .both sides could be made for several other backs. . . .
You want to say that it had something to do with the first half or second half of the game? They went into prevent in the 2nd half? Yeah, that’s true. . . .but I'm sure it had nothing to do with "wearing down the defense". . .because that’s a phrase I have never heard before.
What about the fact that even if they are behind, Green is a pass catcher as well.
The simple argument here is how long do you think green can produce? Not why he produced on Sunday. On Sunday he produced because he had a good game, and he looked good. Did he look like LT? No. But we aren’t comparing him to LT. For being A Green, and having low expectations, I think he looks amazing and has the talent to still be a very very serviceable #2 back, and possible a solid #1 back if you went WR/WR/WR in the first 3 rounds. Could he flop and barely finish the season? Yes. But that’s why he didn’t go in front of Droughns in most leagues. . .or Jordon for that matter. . . .but at this point, would you really still take Jordan over Green? Not as easy of a call as it was draft day. . . .but that’s a mix of Jordan dropping and Green coming up. . . .not that Green is late 1st or second round pick.
How long will he last and what does his schedule look like from here on out? Based off of Sunday I think he should be fine to play the season providing that he doesn’t injure himself just like any other back could. Schedule. . .I would guess it’s not quite as tough as Chicago. Am I starting him this week over Foster. . . .no, not yet. Am I keeping him incase Foster breaks? Yup! And Pretty excited about it.
BTW, that avatar is from 3 seasons ago.
You want to say that it had something to do with the first half or second half of the game? They went into prevent in the 2nd half? Yeah, that’s true. . . .but I'm sure it had nothing to do with "wearing down the defense". . .because that’s a phrase I have never heard before.
What about the fact that even if they are behind, Green is a pass catcher as well.
The simple argument here is how long do you think green can produce? Not why he produced on Sunday. On Sunday he produced because he had a good game, and he looked good. Did he look like LT? No. But we aren’t comparing him to LT. For being A Green, and having low expectations, I think he looks amazing and has the talent to still be a very very serviceable #2 back, and possible a solid #1 back if you went WR/WR/WR in the first 3 rounds. Could he flop and barely finish the season? Yes. But that’s why he didn’t go in front of Droughns in most leagues. . .or Jordon for that matter. . . .but at this point, would you really still take Jordan over Green? Not as easy of a call as it was draft day. . . .but that’s a mix of Jordan dropping and Green coming up. . . .not that Green is late 1st or second round pick.
How long will he last and what does his schedule look like from here on out? Based off of Sunday I think he should be fine to play the season providing that he doesn’t injure himself just like any other back could. Schedule. . .I would guess it’s not quite as tough as Chicago. Am I starting him this week over Foster. . . .no, not yet. Am I keeping him incase Foster breaks? Yup! And Pretty excited about it.
BTW, that avatar is from 3 seasons ago.
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
I will take the sample of what he did last year when he played over what he's done in one game this season.
PatsWillWin
Footballguy
Why are people going out of their way to make these lame arguments about why Green's performance the other day wasn't encouraging bordering on very impressive?
The guy is coming back from a serious injury, he's playing behind an awful line on an awful team, and he put up 140 all purpose against the best defense in the NFL. Don't start throwing crap out like "well Chicago was dropping back looking for a pass" unless you're going to do that with every other RB who plays in every other game.
The guy is coming back from a serious injury, he's playing behind an awful line on an awful team, and he put up 140 all purpose against the best defense in the NFL. Don't start throwing crap out like "well Chicago was dropping back looking for a pass" unless you're going to do that with every other RB who plays in every other game.
fatness
Footballguy
People get irked when players don't live down, or up, to preseason "expectations".
Ok. You do that.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Do you want to mention the rookies on the offensive line?
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Lemmiwinks
Footballguy
I can't believe how many green owners there are here! You must be if you are so optimistic about a return to glory for this has-been.
Footballhead
WWPRD?
Didn't watch the game, but in pre-season there has been the talk regarding Packer's zone blocking run scheme and Ahman's familairty with it from college days. He may turn out to be a decent RB2, perhaps better.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Already have.
/agreeMaking excuses for why the guy had a good game is idiotic, at best.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Or we just watched the game.
Limp Ditka
Footballguy
Great posting, guy.Again, a poster says something that's not flattering about a Packer, thus they are an idiot.
What it continues to come down to is that Green is a great sell high right now.
That's been my point all along
I didn't write off the fact that he came back from injury
I didn't write off the fact the he is the #1 choice at RB for GB
What I did say is that he ended up with an ideal situation to put up numbers and took advantage of it.
There was no sign of the A Green of 2-3 years ago and he's in a less than ideal situation in GB to continue to put up good numbers. For those that watched the game OBJECTIVELY, they saw that. For those that didn't, they call others names.
Anyone that owns him should try and take advantage of that by selling high on him.
Biabreakable
Footballguy
Yes Ahman Green is back.
And I am keeping him.
Green did gain good yardage on 2 draws late in the game but that was only 20 of his 100 some yards.
He was running well in the 1st half and got better as the game went on.
He has no value in trade until people realise he has fully recovered from injury and that will take more than one game.
Green has a favorable schedule. I Will keep him and see how he performs over the next couple weeks before deciding on his true value.
If you can buy Ahman Green on the cheap after this performance I would consider it. There may be others out there who think he is a sell high that could get scooped for thinking they are being slick.
And I am keeping him.
Green did gain good yardage on 2 draws late in the game but that was only 20 of his 100 some yards.
He was running well in the 1st half and got better as the game went on.
He has no value in trade until people realise he has fully recovered from injury and that will take more than one game.
Green has a favorable schedule. I Will keep him and see how he performs over the next couple weeks before deciding on his true value.
If you can buy Ahman Green on the cheap after this performance I would consider it. There may be others out there who think he is a sell high that could get scooped for thinking they are being slick.
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
How'd Lamont Jordan do last night in those obvious passing situations?
Fla\/\/ed
Footballguy
Anyone that watched the game and knows anything about football would be impressed with where Green is at in his career considering the injury not to mention how well he ran the ball on Sunday. It's pathetic to have a Bear fan in here trying to bash Green. Even Grid hasn't sunk to that level.
