A Little Surprised by Chris Johnson's Ranking (1 Viewer)

[theswami]

I am in the midst of trade negotiations and decided to look at Dodd's and Drinen's rankings to help evaluate the Chris Johnson/Kevin Smith component of the trade.

I am absolute shock over the disparity in the rankings of these two players (12-13 slots with Johnson being ranked higher). Given the horrible offense and defense in Tenn. I cannot quite understand how Chris Johnson can be ranked this high.

He is near the top of my league in RB points and while I am not about to throw out his big game I do not see how the performances in the other games could lead someone to believe he can continue to be ranked so highly.

What about Chris Johnson would make him a substantially better back to own for the rest of this year compared to Kevin Smith? Do folks think he will be able to sprinkle in a great game (50 points in my league) here and there to cover up the stinkers?

I am not questioning the ranking as much as I am trying to figure out what I am missing when reviewing the backs' prospects.

 

[tomarken]

He's better?

Also, bringing the quality of his surrounding cast into the discussion is a little silly considering where Kevin Smith plays.

ETA: According to FBG's SOS, Tenn has a significantly easier schedule against the run going forward compared to Detroit. Tenn has 4th easiest while Detroit has 8th hardest.

 

[One]

While I wouldn't trade Johnson straight up for Smith, I too would like to hear reasoning behind the CJ optimism.

[Chris Johnson Owner]

 

[steelwind]

While I wouldn't trade Johnson straight up for Smith, I too would like to hear reasoning behind the CJ optimism.[Chris Johnson Owner]

He is a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball no matter where the field position is. Not many RBs in the league are in that category.

 

[ChuckLiddell]

I am in the midst of trade negotiations and decided to look at Dodd's and Drinen's rankings to help evaluate the Chris Johnson/Kevin Smith component of the trade.

I am absolute shock over the disparity in the rankings of these two players (12-13 slots with Johnson being ranked higher). Given the horrible offense and defense in Tenn. I cannot quite understand how Chris Johnson can be ranked this high.

He is near the top of my league in RB points and while I am not about to throw out his big game I do not see how the performances in the other games could lead someone to believe he can continue to be ranked so highly.

What about Chris Johnson would make him a substantially better back to own for the rest of this year compared to Kevin Smith? Do folks think he will be able to sprinkle in a great game (50 points in my league) here and there to cover up the stinkers?

I am not questioning the ranking as much as I am trying to figure out what I am missing when reviewing the backs' prospects.

How is the bolded part any different for Kevin Smith than it is for Chris Johnson? Pretty similar situations, and a dramatically disparate level of talent gives you your answer.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

Um, let's start here:

Chris Johnson is averaging 6.0 yards per carry.

Kevin Smith is averaging 3.1 yards per carry.

 

[LittlePhatty]

Big play threat. He's likely to put up Top 10 stats just from breaking out one play per game, instead of pounding out 4 or 5 yards at a time over the course of the entire game.

Relatively nice schedule. BUF, HOU, STL and SD are giving up points to RBs. SF and ARI are ok matchups.

Play calling has been a problem though. I think CJ is still their best weapon to score even when down by 21 points. He catches a lot of passes. Early in the Indy game the Titans had a 3rd & 1 shot where they called a deep pass to Washington (incomplete). The score was 6 to 7. In the past, they would have put LenDale in there to push for a 1st down. Didn't make sense to me.

 

[theswami]

He's better?

Also, bringing the quality of his surrounding cast into the discussion is a little silly considering where Kevin Smith plays.

ETA: According to FBG's SOS, Tenn has a significantly easier schedule against the run going forward compared to Detroit. Tenn has 4th easiest while Detroit has 8th hardest.

He is a homerun threat everytime he touches the ball no matter where the field position is. Not many RBs in the league are in that category.

I am in the midst of trade negotiations and decided to look at Dodd's and Drinen's rankings to help evaluate the Chris Johnson/Kevin Smith component of the trade.

I am absolute shock over the disparity in the rankings of these two players (12-13 slots with Johnson being ranked higher). Given the horrible offense and defense in Tenn. I cannot quite understand how Chris Johnson can be ranked this high.

He is near the top of my league in RB points and while I am not about to throw out his big game I do not see how the performances in the other games could lead someone to believe he can continue to be ranked so highly.

What about Chris Johnson would make him a substantially better back to own for the rest of this year compared to Kevin Smith? Do folks think he will be able to sprinkle in a great game (50 points in my league) here and there to cover up the stinkers?

I am not questioning the ranking as much as I am trying to figure out what I am missing when reviewing the backs' prospects.

How is the bolded part any different for Kevin Smith than it is for Chris Johnson? Pretty similar situations, and a dramatically disparate level of talent gives you your answer.

Um, let's start here:

Chris Johnson is averaging 6.0 yards per carry.

Kevin Smith is averaging 3.1 yards per carry.

All the reasons discussed thus far have not translated into a major difference in fantasy points between the two backs so far this season.Again, they are 12-13 slots apart in the rankings.

Is the thought that at some point the reasons above will allow Johnson to separate from Smith as the season goes on?

 

[editor47]

I am in the midst of trade negotiations and decided to look at Dodd's and Drinen's rankings to help evaluate the Chris Johnson/Kevin Smith component of the trade.

I am absolute shock over the disparity in the rankings of these two players (12-13 slots with Johnson being ranked higher). Given the horrible offense and defense in Tenn. I cannot quite understand how Chris Johnson can be ranked this high.

He is near the top of my league in RB points and while I am not about to throw out his big game I do not see how the performances in the other games could lead someone to believe he can continue to be ranked so highly.

What about Chris Johnson would make him a substantially better back to own for the rest of this year compared to Kevin Smith? Do folks think he will be able to sprinkle in a great game (50 points in my league) here and there to cover up the stinkers?

I am not questioning the ranking as much as I am trying to figure out what I am missing when reviewing the backs' prospects.

How is the bolded part any different for Kevin Smith than it is for Chris Johnson? Pretty similar situations, and a dramatically disparate level of talent gives you your answer.

Having not watched a lions game since last thanksgiving - thankfully - i tend to disagree.stafford >> collins

calvin >>>>>> any titans WR.

OLs? IDK.

I would think opposing defenses have to have significantly more respect for the Detroit passing game than the Tennessee passing game.

That said, the reason CJ3 is higher is summed up in one word:

TALENT.

 

[Fear & Loathing]

All the reasons discussed thus far have not translated into a major difference in fantasy points between the two backs so far this season.Again, they are 12-13 slots apart in the rankings.Is the thought that at some point the reasons above will allow Johnson to separate from Smith as the season goes on?

Yes.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

I have Kevin Smith in a redraft .05ppr and would not trade him for Johnson

To the person that used a ypc as reason the problem with that is K. Smith gets 30% more carries and Targets in the passing game.

He is also the red zone RB. Outside of one game CJ has put up very few fantasy points where KJ has been solid all year.

To me I will go with a guy I know plays every down with little comp fpr touches. I would say hes done well when you consider hes played

PITT#2 VS RUN

VIKES 10 VS RUN

BEARS #9 VS RUN

SAINTS #7 VS RUN

SKINS # 22 VS RUN

4 TOP 10 DEF AND I THINK SKINS ARE BETTER THAN THAT #

Johnson has went against

JAGS #18 VS RUN

JETS# 19 VS RUN

COLTS#14 VS RUN

TEXANS #26 VS RUNS

PITT #2 VS RUN

His Def played agianst is much weaker so far and his olny good game came vs #26 vs run.

Both played Pitt with Smith scoring a 3rd more ff points than Johnson.

To me CJ value is purely based on where most of you drafted him. That 1 game has saved him.

 

[fantasizing]

The homerun threat is just too hard to ignore. The fact that CJ alone can win you your week is just too hard to ignore. Yes, he'll have bad games like he did against Indy last week, but he can explode on any given play against any given defense.

There is talk that Young will replace COllins at QB. Do you think this will increase the number of receptions for CJ ? Let's face it, Collins hasn't exactly been targeting CJ very much in the passing game. But I'm wondering if Young will be more quick to dump it off to CJ when he sees jack down the field.

 

[Multiple Scores]

Um, let's start here:Chris Johnson is averaging 6.0 yards per carry.Kevin Smith is averaging 3.1 yards per carry.

This is the kind of posting that should make the original poster satisfied.

 

[BobbyLayne]

Kevin Smith is one of the more consistent FF options around. However, its def high RB2/low RB1 type output. I don't believe he has ever had a 20 point game in standard formats - his career high in rushing is somewhere in the 110s. He's always involved in the offense, on pace for 60 catches, and rarely comes out of the game, so he has always had will likely continue to have steady production.

CJ3 has blinding speed. He can put up multiple TD games (not 2, but like 3 or 4) and take it to the house from anywhere on the field. His lows will be lower and his highs will be league high for the week, easily winning the week for you almost single handidly. Awesome talent.

 

[lyon812]

CJ3 has blinding speed. He can put up multiple TD games (not 2, but like 3 or 4)

He's had three multiple TD weeks in his career (Smith has had one), but has one more career touchdown than Smith.Fantasy-wise, what Smith lacks in blinding speed, he makes up for in carriers and goal line opportunities. Before the season, I recall a lot of people saying that if owners could endure Smith's rough first six games of the season, that they'd have quite a gem. Now, despite that, he's beaten Johnson's fantasy points, at least in my leagues (all PPR), 4 out of 5 weeks. While it's nice to have a guy that can single-handedly win you a week with high-scoring outbursts, people often overlook the problem of inconsistency--it's just as easy to say that he lost you a week with his low-scoring crapfests, which are likely going to happen with more regularity than the outbursts. Smith's done more to help his teams this year than Johnson has, and his schedule only gets easier.

 

[duaneok66]

If speed was all a RB needed, then Trung Canidate would still be playing, and Bush wouldn't be "the highest paid decoy" . . .

I'm not a Kevin Smith fan, but I wouldn't argue with a guy that preferred him over Johnson . . .

 

[theswami]

Um, let's start here:Chris Johnson is averaging 6.0 yards per carry.Kevin Smith is averaging 3.1 yards per carry.

This is the kind of posting that should make the original poster satisfied.

This is precisely the point. That YPC has not yielded a significant difference between the two in terms of total points.This is not a thread about which RB is better.My issue is we have five games of evidence that shows the two are not very different so far from a fantasy perspective and Tenn. prospects do not look great. With that said, why is there a 12-13 slot difference between the two going forward?Some may say Detroit is just as bad as Tenn. You will not have an argument from me on that but it all gets back to relative ranking with Johnson being ranked MUCH higher going forward.I am wondering if Dodds and Drinen are guilty of the same things many of us are (including me), holding on to hope for far too long.

 

[Aardvarks]

CJ3 tears up 4-3 defs like New England. Homer or not, I'm betting he rips several big runs against New England. NFLN's Brian Baldinger picked Tenn to win btw.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

This is precisely the point. That YPC has not yielded a significant difference between the two in terms of total points.My issue is we have five games of evidence that shows the two are not very different so far from a fantasy perspective and Tenn. prospects do not look great.

In my non-PPR league, Chris Johnson has 79.4 points. Kevin Smith has 60.0 CJ is #3 in total points. K Smith is #9.

With that said, why is there a 12-13 slot difference between the two going forward?

NASDAQ went up astronomically in the late 90s. Then suddenly, it didn't. Lesson: past performance isn't indicative of future performance.

 

[goodoldalky]

There is talk that Young will replace COllins at QB. Do you think this will increase the number of receptions for CJ ? Let's face it, Collins hasn't exactly been targeting CJ very much in the passing game. But I'm wondering if Young will be more quick to dump it off to CJ when he sees jack down the field.

Good question. I am not sure how exactly VY would impact CJ's touches. IMO, most likely scenario, it gives the Tennessee players and fans a sense of renewal and maybe a clean slate mentally, where they can start to get some of their confidence back just by making a move like that. VY will continue to do a mixture of dumb and amazing things, can't be much worse than the record they've started with. And there's always a chance that if things start going well and VY starts getting wins like he has been known to do (whether they are pretty or not) that the number of plays/points the Tenn O gets go up... and that could help everyone on the offense.I'd be interested to see what VY does just for the mood of the team/organization. In the NFL, many teams have enough talent to win. I think the Titans have enough. But since there is so much parity, there is a lot dependent on the mental state of your team. Right now, it gets no worse than the Titans. I guess we'll all have to wait and see, although I think we will see VY take over in the next 2 or 3 games.

 

[theswami]

This is precisely the point. That YPC has not yielded a significant difference between the two in terms of total points.

My issue is we have five games of evidence that shows the two are not very different so far from a fantasy perspective and Tenn. prospects do not look great.

In my non-PPR league, Chris Johnson has 79.4 points. Kevin Smith has 60.0 CJ is #3 in total points. K Smith is #9.

With that said, why is there a 12-13 slot difference between the two going forward?

NASDAQ went up astronomically in the late 90s. Then suddenly, it didn't. Lesson: past performance isn't indicative of future performance.

Regarding the NASDAQ analogy, that cuts both ways such as CJ's ability to put together 1 great week out of every 5 to offset the bad weeks or continuing to put up 4 bad weeks to every 1 great week. In fact I think the CJ supporters would not not agree with the point.I think what I am seeing so far is nothing more complicated than the following, the forecasters just "think" Johnson is a much better RB than not only Smith but also almost all other RBs. He will either stay where he is from a total points perspective or improve (depending on your league). They are not afraid of the 4 stinkers to 1 great game and in fact they expect that trend to continue or to see more consistency.

To relate it to the NASDAQ analogy above, past performance IS indicative of future results. Johnson has historically been seen as a MUCH better RB than Smith. Smith will drop off and/or Johnson will open a performance gap him.

 

[duaneok66]

the Titans defense is impacting Johnson's numbers - last year they were playing with a lead, so he got an increased amount of carries . . . this year the secondary is a sieve (mostly due to injuries) so they have to try and pass to catch up - hence is small # of carries . . .

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

This is precisely the point. That YPC has not yielded a significant difference between the two in terms of total points.

My issue is we have five games of evidence that shows the two are not very different so far from a fantasy perspective and Tenn. prospects do not look great.

In my non-PPR league, Chris Johnson has 79.4 points. Kevin Smith has 60.0 CJ is #3 in total points. K Smith is #9.

With that said, why is there a 12-13 slot difference between the two going forward?

NASDAQ went up astronomically in the late 90s. Then suddenly, it didn't. Lesson: past performance isn't indicative of future performance.

Regarding the NASDAQ analogy, that cuts both ways such as CJ's ability to put together 1 great week out of every 5 to offset the bad weeks or continuing to put up 4 bad weeks to every 1 great week. In fact I think the CJ supporters would not not agree with the point.I think what I am seeing so far is nothing more complicated than the following, the forecasters just "think" Johnson is a much better RB than not only Smith but also almost all other RBs. He will either stay where he is from a total points perspective or improve (depending on your league). They are not afraid of the 4 stinkers to 1 great game and in fact they expect that trend to continue or to see more consistency.

To relate it to the NASDAQ analogy above, past performance IS indicative of future results. Johnson has historically been seen as a MUCH better RB than Smith. Smith will drop off and/or Johnson will open a performance gap him.

Of course the analogy cuts both ways. The point is that you can't simply look and say "this is what happened in weeks 1-5, why are people deviating from past performance so much?" I agree with your broader point....that the forecasters are saying "CJ is a better RB just because I think so, therefore I expect CJ to outperform Smith going forward." I also think people are rightfully spreading SOME of CJ's week 2 production and "smoothing" it out over multiple weeks for future projections.

In other words (I mentioned this in another CJ thread while debating with some random staffer, maybe it was J-Wood), do you really expect CJ to have clunkers 4 of 5 weeks, but also explode for 3 TDs in 1 of 5 weeks? Of course not, that is just silly. So the real question: do you expect CJ to average 0.6 TDs per week going forward? 0.2 TDs per week? That's the nut of the issue IMO.

 

[TobiasFunke]

I'm surprised that nobody has bothered to mention their 2008 stats.

Five games is five games. Obviously 2009 data is FAR more important to projections than 2008 data, but it's also a much smaller sample size. Bottom line is that the past player data should inform the rankings to some degree. Johnson killed Smith in YPC then, too. If their touches start to even out (and they might if Tennessee is in or leading more games and Detroit gets blown out a few more times), there's every reason to expect Johnson will outperform Smith by a 200 or so yards again this year.

 

[Ray_T]

You can analyze yards per carry and such, but there are two things I'd like to bring up:

1) Tenessee is a Run based offense. Any RB in a run based offesnse should score 10-15% more than a RB in a pass based offense like they have in Detroit.

2) Like it or not, Tenessee is a better TEAM than Detroit. What this means is that if you think Tenessee will win 5 or 6 more games than Detroit will this season, (conservative estimate) Chris Johnson will get a ton of work in the fourth Quarter against a tired defense to kill the clock. Smith will not likely get this luxury too often (at least not this year) and in fact, I'd expect his team will abandon the run in the fourth quarter more often than not because they will be playing from behind.

point #2 is usually what separates the good RB's from the great RB's. LT put up huge numbers that year the chargers were 14-2 because once the 4th quarter rolled along all they had to do was run the ball with him to kill the clock. Some games he'd put up 50-75 yards and 1-2 TD's in the fourth quarter. Now that the chargers are likely to be 7-9 or 8-8 going forward under this fool for a coach who replaced Shottenheimer, his numbers are going to be fairly average.

This is why Kevin Smith is not ranked higher. in a year or two, he may be a stud, but today he's just average at best.

 

[footballsavvy]

I don't think they are separated by too much. But Tenn does have a good offensive run blocking line. If they can start putting together some semblance of a 2nd dimension to their offense, then Johnson could get back on track quickly. Right now there is no incentive for opposing defenses to remove the 8th man from the box.

They really do have a nice schedule.... most importantly, weeks 14 and 16 which are typically the playoffs/superbowl weeks for fantasy football teams.

I think a Vince Young change could do no harm to Johnson's current value. He can't be any worse of a passer than Collins. And I have never seen a QB less inclined to check down than Collins. He would prefer to throw the across the field to a mediocre receiver being double covered than to dump it off of a wide-open, 4.2 forty, running back sitting 10 yards in front of him.

 

[CBower4545]

Here are some reasons to like Kevin Smith this season over Chris Johnson.

1)Kevin Smith is getting better production in the passing game

2)Kevin Smith is getting more redzone work

3)Kevin Smith is getting more carries

4)Kevin has performed better 4 out of 5 games

5)Kevin Smith has played a tougher schedule so far

6) Kevin Smith has proven his toughness and durability while Chris Johnson still hasn't yet

1) Kevin Smith has much to my surprise seem more reliable in the passing game

Sure Chris Johnson has 126 receiving yards and a score, but the 69 yard td came on a fluke play that was just terrible defense. No one covered him at all. Credit for the play, but it's the kinda thing that inflats someone's numbers. Go to the NFL game center week 2 and watch the play Titans_Week2. I am not talking about taking away a big play, I am talking about a play where no one covered Johnson at all, it was just a complete defensive breakdown. So I would treat that play like anyone would treat Stokley's fluke reception and just ignore it. I don't see how that play can't helpful in any sot of way towards evaluating the player. After that you have 15 receptions for 57 yards and no tds. That is much lower then I would expect. Only 3.8 per reception vs 6.0 he had last year. While Kevin Smith has put up 19 receptions for 143 yards. He is catching more of his passes, getting roughly the same targets, and he is getting more yards per reception (taking out the fluke play).

2) Chris Johnson is not getting the red zone work that he got last year and Kevin Smith is getting more redzone work this year. Kevin Smith's redzone work is looking just like it did at the end of last year.

Chris Johnson had 39 red zone touches, averaging over 2.4 touches per game, and he had only 2 games with no touches in the red zone last year, resulting in over 100 yards and 6 tds. Chris Johnson redzone work account for just over 20% of his numbers for the year Over five games this year Chris johnson has two runs for -2 yards, and has already 3 games without any redzone touches. Kevin Smith has 15 redzone touches vs only having 36 on the year last year. In last five games last year when Kevin Smith took over Smith had 18 touches over the last 5 games. Kevin Smith scored 3 tds in the redzone this year and 3 tds in the redzone over the last 5 games of last year. Bottom Line Kevin Smith will have and convert more redzone scoring opportunities.

3) Kevin Smith will get more carries a game. Smith more carries this year and since Smith took over last year, the Lions last year gave him more carries then Chris Johnson got from week 11 on. This is not really news to anyone. It may only amount to 2 to 4 extra carries a game but on a season that's 30 to 65 extra carries.

4) Kevin Smith has performed better 4 out of 5 games.

week 1 +6.4

week 3 +1.4

week 4 +7.7

week 5 +5.2

I don't know about your leagues but consistency is important in mine, because my leagues are very competitve. In my main league out of 6 games a week, over 5 weeks, 7 games have been decided by 7 or fewer points five games by 5 or less points. So about 1 to 2 games a week will be settled by 7 points or less. So while there is a pretty good chance Chris Johnson won week 2 for people, in my league there is close to a 20% chance that Chris Johnson would have cost you a game vs Kevin Smith week 1, week 4, and week 5.

5)Kevin Smith has played a tougher schedule

take a look at the strength of schedule supplied by FBG FBG_strength_Of_Schedule. Kevin Smith has not had one soft matchup yet no one.

Chris Johnson only good game came against a soft defense. In everyweek where the matchup was even close Kevin Smith outperformed Chris Johnson. Now Chris Johnson will still have an easier schedule the rest of the way the Kevin Smith, but comparatively Smith's schedule gets much better for him, then Chris Johnson's schedule gets compared to his early schedule.

6) Kevin Smith has proven he can handle carries and this year he has played through pain.Smith handled a ton of carries in college and two weeks in a row he has been banged up while still playing. Chris Johnson has never had a ton of carries and couldn't finish an important playoff game last year.

 

[HoTnickZ]

CJ3 tears up 4-3 defs like New England. Homer or not, I'm betting he rips several big runs against New England. NFLN's Brian Baldinger picked Tenn to win btw.

I'd be surprised if the Pats let CJ3 beat them and not Collins, in fact I'd be pissed because I teased the hell out of that game. The weather might be a problem though.

 

[Banger]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

 

[fantasizing]

And I have never seen a QB less inclined to check down than Collins. He would prefer to throw the across the field to a mediocre receiver being double covered than to dump it off of a wide-open, 4.2 forty, running back sitting 10 yards in front of him.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this, both this and last year. I can't tell you how many times I've screamed at the TV telling Collins to just dump it off to CJ, who is WIDE OPEN 5-10 yards in front of him. It's almost like he doesn't see him at all. Collins has been trained to be a pure pocket passer, and to look down the field at all times. Fishcher kept talking about getting CJ more involved in the passing game so he can use his talent in the open field. Well, that hasn't happened at all. And worst part is, we know it would work. In the playoff game last year against Baltimore, Collins threw a quick pass to CJ at the line of scrimmage, CJ made a man miss, and got 28 yards on the play.

 

[Michael Fox Fan]

And I have never seen a QB less inclined to check down than Collins. He would prefer to throw the across the field to a mediocre receiver being double covered than to dump it off of a wide-open, 4.2 forty, running back sitting 10 yards in front of him.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this, both this and last year. I can't tell you how many times I've screamed at the TV telling Collins to just dump it off to CJ, who is WIDE OPEN 5-10 yards in front of him. It's almost like he doesn't see him at all. Collins has been trained to be a pure pocket passer, and to look down the field at all times. Fishcher kept talking about getting CJ more involved in the passing game so he can use his talent in the open field. Well, that hasn't happened at all. And worst part is, we know it would work. In the playoff game last year against Baltimore, Collins threw a quick pass to CJ at the line of scrimmage, CJ made a man miss, and got 28 yards on the play.

Just one of many reasons that Collins is an average QB, at best.

 

[LittlePhatty]

I can't tell you how many times I've screamed at the TV telling Collins to just dump it off to CJ, who is WIDE OPEN 5-10 yards in front of him.

Agreed. CJ has the moves to turn a 5 yard check down pass into 15 or 20 yards, and occasionally a long TD.As I said before, even if the Titans are down by 21 points, CJ is still their best weapon.

 

[Billy Ball Thorton]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

 

[Itchy Amos]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.

Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

I agree with you completely. I dont think I would trade away Smith for Johnson. Detroit's offense is better than most people think.There is much more to "talent" than just speed. Smith almost broke the NCAA single season rushing record. He certainly isnt as fast as Johnson, but I would say that he is more durable, tougher & stronger. I've heard a couple of interviews from him and it seemed to me that he was very determined to lead a turnaround in Detroit. He has an intense will to win.

Johnson may outscore him from here on out, but I think it will be close. In my mind, its pretty much a toss up. So with that, I will happily take the guy who is more consistent.

 

[Banger]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

so is DWill, LT, Jacobs, Forte, Westbrook, Sjax, Portis, Slaton, etc....good thing the season is more than 5 weeks long...

 

[theswami]

So I pulled the trigger on the trade late yesterday....

Kevin Smith, Garcon, Witten and Kaeding

For

Chris Johnson, Berrian, Dallas Clark, and Flacco

Essentially, I figure I for all the consistency provided by Kevin Smith I still only have 2 wins so maybe Chris Johnson can turn it around and be more consistent and provide upside to my team. Frankly, the key to me making this deal is a hope/expectation that Clark will provide the consistency that Johnson may lack.

The other owner is pretty good but LOVES to shake up his teams. The funny part about all this is the whole discussion started because he was without a kicker this week and wanted Kaeding for Flacco. I didn't "need" Flacco so I tried to trade Ricky Willams and Kaeding for Slaton and Flacco which was declined and we ended up with the above after a number of machinations. The bottom line is he, like many other owners, are cursing Chris Johnson and was probably looking to dump him.

 

[Bri]

My guess-always at risk to be down by a zillion points and passing alot, it's tough to tank a Lions RB too high.

I do think Smith looks like an excellent RB for future years and just does so many things well

 

[theswami]

My guess-always at risk to be down by a zillion points and passing alot, it's tough to tank a Lions RB too high.I do think Smith looks like an excellent RB for future years and just does so many things well

The great thing about Smith is he is involved in the passing game too. He touches the ball a ton in that offense. With Stafford and Calvin being hurt, I do worry about defenses looking to stop him.

 

[PahtyTom]

And I have never seen a QB less inclined to check down than Collins. He would prefer to throw the across the field to a mediocre receiver being double covered than to dump it off of a wide-open, 4.2 forty, running back sitting 10 yards in front of him.

I'm glad I'm not the only one who has noticed this, both this and last year. I can't tell you how many times I've screamed at the TV telling Collins to just dump it off to CJ,

Pretty much how 3 hours of my Sunday goes every week

 

[Bri]

My guess-always at risk to be down by a zillion points and passing alot, it's tough to tank a Lions RB too high.I do think Smith looks like an excellent RB for future years and just does so many things well

The great thing about Smith is he is involved in the passing game too. He touches the ball a ton in that offense. With Stafford and Calvin being hurt, I do worry about defenses looking to stop him.

No doubt but that does make him more one dimensional(rec) instead of the two way threat(run rec) he is earlier in the game. It's enough to give other RBs an edge over him for now.

 

[theswami]

While this thread is not the best example of makes this site great, it is a good example of why I have a paid subscription and use the forums.

Sure I was probably going to do the trade anyway but hearing from other users and looking at the nuggets of information available to subscribers was helpful.

Anyway, thanks contributors to the thread and forums in general and thanks FBG for providing just one more piece of data to help me win my league. I'll forget about the horrible performances in the other two leagues.

 

[Banger]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.

Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

I agree with you completely. I dont think I would trade away Smith for Johnson. Detroit's offense is better than most people think.There is much more to "talent" than just speed. Smith almost broke the NCAA single season rushing record. He certainly isnt as fast as Johnson, but I would say that he is more durable, tougher & stronger. I've heard a couple of interviews from him and it seemed to me that he was very determined to lead a turnaround in Detroit. He has an intense will to win.

Johnson may outscore him from here on out, but I think it will be close. In my mind, its pretty much a toss up. So with that, I will happily take the guy who is more consistent.

ooofffaaa....

 

[thatguy]

So I pulled the trigger on the trade late yesterday....

Kevin Smith, Garcon, Witten and Kaeding

For

Chris Johnson, Berrian, Dallas Clark, and Flacco

Essentially, I figure I for all the consistency provided by Kevin Smith I still only have 2 wins so maybe Chris Johnson can turn it around and be more consistent and provide upside to my team. Frankly, the key to me making this deal is a hope/expectation that Clark will provide the consistency that Johnson may lack.

The other owner is pretty good but LOVES to shake up his teams. The funny part about all this is the whole discussion started because he was without a kicker this week and wanted Kaeding for Flacco. I didn't "need" Flacco so I tried to trade Ricky Willams and Kaeding for Slaton and Flacco which was declined and we ended up with the above after a number of machinations. The bottom line is he, like many other owners, are cursing Chris Johnson and was probably looking to dump him.

Aren't you glad you made that trade?

 

[Itchy Amos]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.

Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

I agree with you completely. I dont think I would trade away Smith for Johnson. Detroit's offense is better than most people think.There is much more to "talent" than just speed. Smith almost broke the NCAA single season rushing record. He certainly isnt as fast as Johnson, but I would say that he is more durable, tougher & stronger. I've heard a couple of interviews from him and it seemed to me that he was very determined to lead a turnaround in Detroit. He has an intense will to win.

Johnson may outscore him from here on out, but I think it will be close. In my mind, its pretty much a toss up. So with that, I will happily take the guy who is more consistent.

ooofffaaa....

Congratulations on being so awesome!Thats what it sounds like to irrationally lash out with a bag over your head. I was hoping this thread would never show up. Now that I think about it a bit more, I think I am willing to agree that Johnson might be a bit more talented than I gave him credit for. Good call.

 

[FUBAR]

I wouldn't even consider Smith for Johnson. It's all about talent and upside...CJ has it and Smith does not.

LOL... I would same the same to the Johnson owner. I would want a little something extra if I traded Smith for CJ. He is just 1 boom and 4 bust so far. The nice thing for smith owners is he went 3rd rd so most probably have a fitz Andre Johnson or something pretty good from that rd.Bottom line outside 1 game Chris Johnson is a BUST if drated in the first 2 rounds.

sorry, I know it's easy to sit back now and laugh at you. but I will anyway.