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A Ruling On The Robert Meachem Play (2 Viewers)

Joe Bryant

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Staff
The Robert Meachem play is obviously the hot topic among commissioners this morning as they work out how to score it.

I asked my friend Bill Davies to give us his opinion. Bill thinks more about commish stuff than any human I know. He put a lot of thought into this back when it was an issue with Keenan McCardell and I very much respect his opinion.

I asked him this morning to put something together for me and he did.

Thanks Bill.

TRANSCRIPT FROM TODAY’S EMERGENCY HEARING ON THE

ROBERT MEACHEM FUMBLE RECOVERY TD

December 7, 2009

BAILIFF

“All rise. Court is in session. The Dishonorable Chief Injustice Bill Davies presiding.”



CHIEF INJUSTICE BILL DAVIES

Please be seated.

December 7th is a day that will go down in infamy.

(What’s that? Already taken? Dang it! OK, I’ll play it straight then.)

For those of you who don’t know me, I am FootballGuy’s answer to my real life neighbor, Honorable David S. Doty. Judge Doty, you may know, is the presiding U.S. District Court Judge on matters regarding the NFL’s Collective Bargaining Agreement. While that may impress you, he walks in my shadow on all things fantasy football.

As a sitting Injustice for over a decade, I have seen a lot of things in my day. Every once in a while, you meet someone in court who is a product of the system. When they leave the courtroom after you have delivered their sentence, you think to yourself, “I’ll know I’ll see you again.” That happened yesterday in the Saints – Redskins game.

In this case, our subject is ROBERT MEACHEM’S FUMBLE RECOVERY FOR A TD. For those of you new to town, you might think this is a pretty special and unique situation. However, this situation has walked through this courtroom before – in 2003, when I was a Junior Judge. It was disguised then as the “KEENAN McCARDELL TD”. On that day, I thought we were facing an unprecedented matter, but found out later that this situation was in a prior Court as a result of a 1997 Week 11 TD by Kansas City Chief WR Danan Hughes. It likely occurred before then, too, but records are not readily available prior to 1997.

In the 2003 matter of the KEENAN McCARDELL, this Court issued a rather lengthy and complete decision: http://apps.footballguys.com/04davies_mccardelltd.cfm. It resulted in much discussion on message boards, in bar rooms and amongst friends. It was supported and ridiculed. But at the end of the day, it was ground in logic and withstood the test of time. A synopsis of the final decision can be found here: http://apps.footballguys.com/04davies_faq.cfm.

This Court, like most others, recognizes precedent. It looks at the conclusion previously reached and considers that decision in light of the current facts. The Court then determines if the previous conclusion can still be supported by the facts and logic and if that conclusion can also be applied to the current circumstances. (NOTE: Sometimes, over the course of 6 years, something new comes up that was unknown at the time of the original ruling.)

In this instance, the circumstances are identical to the KEENAN McCARDELL incident. Nothing new has come up and many other governing bodies have adopted this Court’s interpretation. As a result, the previous ruling stands.



THE DECISION

The Robert Meachem fumble recovery TD was an OFFENSIVE fumble recovery for a touchdown. It should not be treated as a defensive touchdown for purposes of team defense.

ADDENDUM

We need to recognize that this situation is rare – it happens about once every 6 years. It is not unheard of but it is uncommon. League management systems (like CBSSportsline.com, MyFantasyLeague.com, Fanball.com, etc…) are system driven – they have the ability to interface with the NFL boxscores and provide quick and accurate fantasy scores. However, once in a while, their systems do not recognize oddities like this.

The important thing here is to act in accordance to what your rules state. If all TDs are worth 6 points, then you should have 6 points awarded to Robert Meachem’s score for the week. You may need to add those points manually if your league management system does not do it for you. If your rules state specific TDs that are worth 6 points and offensive fumble recoveries are not one of them, then you should not count this TD.

If your rules permit Team Defense fumble recoveries for a TD as worth 6 points and your league management system awarded 6 points for this score, you may have to reduce that team’s score by 6 points. This is NOT a defensive TD.

GUIDING PRINCIPLE

Your league rules should be the basis for your decision. If your league management system scores a play inconsistent with your league rules, then your Commissioner should make a manual adjustment so that the recorded score is consistent with your league rules.

If you do not like the way your league rules handled this situation, then address it in the offseason – not now. Leagues should not be holding a vote to see how this matter should be resolved.

FINAL WORD

If there is still some question about how your league rules apply to this matter, please e-mail a copy of your rules to us at ChiefInjustice@AskTheCommissioner.com. Your specific request will be handled at no cost as part of your subscription to www.FootballGuys.com.
 
A little more from the McCardell play.

J

IF THE OFFENSE LOSES POSSESSION, THEN THE DEFENSE THAT GAINED POSSESSION SUBSEQUENTLY LOSES POSSESSION BACK TO THE OFFENSE AND THE OFFENSE SCORES, WHO SHOULD GET THE FANTASY POINTS?

This is born out of the infamous Keenan McCardell Monday Night Football fumble recovery touchdown. We have a full discussion of that play at here, but here are the general principles.



An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.

Even if the change of possession changed offensive and defensive teams…this still would be an offensive TD. The team that started the play on offense had the ball intercepted. At the time of the interception, they went on defense. The player that intercepted the ball subsequently fumbled it and the team that started the play on offense recovered the fumble. With this second turnover, the team that started the play on offense regained their status as the offensive team.

This play really wasn't as complicated as everyone made it out to be. It had a lot of scoring ramifications, but none were terribly complicated if you drilled down deep enough. The core of the matter is whether or not offensive and defensive designations change at the time of a change in possession. But in this case, even that doesn't matter because there were two changes in possession. If they do not change, the team never lost their designation as the offensive team. If they do change, the team lost its designation as the offensive team, but regained it when they regained possession of the second turnover.

In this case, the player that scored the TD should get credit for the TD only if fumble recoveries for TDs or a catchall like ALL TDs is used. The QB that threw the interception should get credit for the interception. The DB that intercepted the ball should get credit for the interception AND the fumble. The player that recovered the fumble should also get credit for a fumble recovery, if that player is eligible to receive such points. If a league interprets the change of possession to mean a change in designation, then the team defense of the team that started the play on offense theoretically should receive credit for a fumble recovery. But not credit for the TD because the act of the fumble recovery changes their designation back to offensive team.
 
Did we REALLY need another thread on this topic? It's already been clearly covered here: Authoritative Meachem thread

:popcorn:
Yes. I'm getting lots of email on it and Bill's the guy I look to on stuff like this. Thought some would like it. Some will not and that's cool too.Plus, I see a lot of people getting it wrong in my opinion in the other thread. ;)

J

 
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i look forward to this day every 6 years and the ensuing chaos and hilarity that results
It actually happens more often if you include the occasional muffed punt/botched kick/fake FG attempts that sometimes happen, where people always complain that the DST should get credit for a TD pass or somesuch. As long as the rulings are always consistent, it shouldn't matter.
 
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Who is this according to?
 
Did we REALLY need another thread on this topic? It's already been clearly covered here: Authoritative Meachem thread

:P
Yes. I'm getting lots of email on it and Bill's the guy I look to on stuff like this. Thought some would like it. Some will not and that's cool too.Plus, I see a lot of people getting it wrong in my opinion in the other thread. ;)

J
So why start a new thread, why not just add your $0.02 in the original and pin it? Is your ego so large that you need your own thread? Sheash, ya know guys like you are why the Shark Pool is so choked with multiple threads about the same topic! :shrug:

What would be helpful is a upgrade/downgrade waiver wire topic in the paid section early monday morning!

:popcorn: :pokey: :ph34r:

 
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big0mar said:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Who is this according to?
Logic.
 
Does the NO defense get credit for the fumble recovery? Using the same logic that they do not get credit for the defensive TD, it would seem like they should not also get credit for the recovery either.

My league management website says did not give them credit for the TD but did give points for the fumble recovery. They agreed that it probably should not go to the defense but we are not going to change how they report fumble recoveries at this stage of the game. They thought that if they changed mid season the folks that did get the points for the FR would be screaming. If they decide to change how they score these it will be next season.

 
So are you guys giving Meachem the 6 points in the $35K contest? :confused:
Or the Saints D/ST? :unsure:I think the only fair thing to do is to have the final 500 teams replay the week. Unless, of course, my players tonight put me above the cutline. ;)
 
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Here's Sportslines Version for those of you using their system:

Meachem also had another touchdown in the game, but it didn't count for Fantasy purposes: Brees threw an interception to Kareem Moore of the Redskins, and Moore returned it 14 yards before getting stripped by Meachem. Meachem recovered the fumble and returned it 44 yards for a score. However, CBSSports.com rules it as a defensive fumble recovery and thus a defensive touchdown for the Saints DST because technically Meachem was a defender following the change of possession. Thus, it is not considered an offensive fumble recovery even though Meachem is an offensive player by trade.

 
So are you guys giving Meachem the 6 points in the $35K contest? :unsure:
Or the Saints D/ST? :unsure:I think the only fair thing to do is to have the final 500 teams replay the week. Unless, of course, my players tonight put me above the cutline. ;)
It would be interesting to see if any of the remaining 500 would be impacted by a different scoring solution.
I would imagine every point counts given the bizarre (IMO) scoring around the league this week.Bizarre in the sense that it didn't seem like the typical producers were producing up to snuff and guys like Gradowksi, Campbell, Harrison, Weaver, Murphy, Thomas, Bess, etc. had very nice weeks.
 
Here's Sportslines Version for those of you using their system:

Meachem also had another touchdown in the game, but it didn't count for Fantasy purposes: Brees threw an interception to Kareem Moore of the Redskins, and Moore returned it 14 yards before getting stripped by Meachem. Meachem recovered the fumble and returned it 44 yards for a score. However, CBSSports.com rules it as a defensive fumble recovery and thus a defensive touchdown for the Saints DST because technically Meachem was a defender following the change of possession. Thus, it is not considered an offensive fumble recovery even though Meachem is an offensive player by trade.
Their logic almost makes sense, but it still goes against everything that fantasy football stands for.Sportsline is combining two separate concepts: "D/ST" and "defender". One concept ("defender") is spelled out in the NFL rulebook. The other concept ("D/ST") is purely a fantasy football invention.

So, Meachem was technically a defender. They're right about that. But he was not part of the D/ST. The D/ST did not score the TD.

It seems like Sportsline wants to arbitrarily apply NFL rules. On the one hand, they're being strict about Meachem being on defense. But on the other hand, they're ignoring the fact that Meachem reverted back to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble (as per NFL rules).

 
Joe Bryant said:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Then how come the defense is penalized with giving up points in FFB if a QB (on offense) throws a pick 6? Should an offensive INT for TD not count against the defensive team since they aren't on the field?
 
Here's Sportslines Version for those of you using their system:

Meachem also had another touchdown in the game, but it didn't count for Fantasy purposes: Brees threw an interception to Kareem Moore of the Redskins, and Moore returned it 14 yards before getting stripped by Meachem. Meachem recovered the fumble and returned it 44 yards for a score. However, CBSSports.com rules it as a defensive fumble recovery and thus a defensive touchdown for the Saints DST because technically Meachem was a defender following the change of possession. Thus, it is not considered an offensive fumble recovery even though Meachem is an offensive player by trade.
Their logic almost makes sense, but it still goes against everything that fantasy football stands for.Sportsline is combining two separate concepts: "D/ST" and "defender". One concept ("defender") is spelled out in the NFL rulebook. The other concept ("D/ST") is purely a fantasy football invention.

So, Meachem was technically a defender. They're right about that. But he was not part of the D/ST. The D/ST did not score the TD.

It seems like Sportsline wants to arbitrarily apply NFL rules. On the one hand, they're being strict about Meachem being on defense. But on the other hand, they're ignoring the fact that Meachem reverted back to offense as soon as he recovered the fumble (as per NFL rules).
The defense most certainly did score a TD. Meachem was trying to defend his end zone. It is pretty cut and dry.
 
Joe Bryant said:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Then how come the defense is penalized with giving up points in FFB if a QB (on offense) throws a pick 6? Should an offensive INT for TD not count against the defensive team since they aren't on the field?
Nor should a safety be scored against the DST either
 
Joe Bryant said:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Then how come the defense is penalized with giving up points in FFB if a QB (on offense) throws a pick 6? Should an offensive INT for TD not count against the defensive team since they aren't on the field?
:mellow:
 
And according to NFL rules, once the ball is turned over, the offense becomes the defense.
NFL rules can't be strictly applied to fantasy football as then there could never be a defensive TD.However, by your logic above, once WAS got the INT, they became the offence and Meachem and the rest of the Saints offence became D, correct?The moment Meachem gained possession of the ball, by default, he then became offence again. Therefore, no D/ST TD for the NO Defence. They were not on the field at the time of the play, therefore there should be no stats for them.
 
Joe Bryant said:
An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
Then how come the defense is penalized with giving up points in FFB if a QB (on offense) throws a pick 6? Should an offensive INT for TD not count against the defensive team since they aren't on the field?
Some league sites allow the commish to set the scoring so that ONLY points scored on the team's actual Defence count towards the final total. Any turnovers that become a TD are not counted and neither are kick/punt returns.
 
The defense most certainly did score a TD. Meachem was trying to defend his end zone. It is pretty cut and dry.
The NFL considers this TD to be an offensive TD.So, not cut and dry after all.
Do we have any information to confirm this?
Official NFL GamebookAt the very bottom:

Code:
Touchdown Scoring Information			Offense		Defense		Special Teams	New Orleans Saints						3		0		0Washington Redskins						3		0		0
Also, if you search through the team stats on NFL.com, you'll see that Meachem's fumble recovery is NOT credited to the New Orleans team defense.
 
And according to NFL rules, once the ball is turned over, the offense becomes the defense.
NFL rules can't be strictly applied to fantasy football as then there could never be a defensive TD.However, by your logic above, once WAS got the INT, they became the offence and Meachem and the rest of the Saints offence became D, correct?The moment Meachem gained possession of the ball, by default, he then became offence again. Therefore, no D/ST TD for the NO Defence. They were not on the field at the time of the play, therefore there should be no stats for them.
If, at any point during the play, you are defending your end zone, you are the defense. If at some point during the play, you are defending your end zone, and you end up scoring, it should be a defensive touchdown.
 
Does the NO defense get credit for the fumble recovery? Using the same logic that they do not get credit for the defensive TD, it would seem like they should not also get credit for the recovery either.My league management website says did not give them credit for the TD but did give points for the fumble recovery.
In the 2nd quarter (a couple series before the Meachem play, IIRC) the NO Special Teams recovered a muffed punt, so that may be what your league management site is giving the credit for.From the 2nd quarter.4-1-NO 30 (1:43) 6-T.Morstead punts 27 yards to WAS 43, Center-57-J.Kyle. 25-K.Barnes MUFFS catch, touched at WAS 43, RECOVERED by NO-28-U.Young at WAS 41. 28-U.Young to WAS 41 for no gain (82-A.Randle El).
 
The defense most certainly did score a TD. Meachem was trying to defend his end zone. It is pretty cut and dry.
The NFL considers this TD to be an offensive TD.So, not cut and dry after all.
Do we have any information to confirm this?
Official NFL GamebookAt the very bottom:

Code:
Touchdown Scoring Information			Offense		Defense		Special Teams	New Orleans Saints						3		0		0Washington Redskins						3		0		0
Also, if you search through the team stats on NFL.com, you'll see that Meachem's fumble recovery is NOT credited to the New Orleans team defense.
I'm not debating that the NFL didn't score it that way. I would just like to see the rules that the NFL has in place for situations like this. Only one I have seen states that once the ball is turned over, the Saints became defenders.
 
And according to NFL rules, once the ball is turned over, the offense becomes the defense.
NFL rules can't be strictly applied to fantasy football as then there could never be a defensive TD.However, by your logic above, once WAS got the INT, they became the offence and Meachem and the rest of the Saints offence became D, correct?The moment Meachem gained possession of the ball, by default, he then became offence again. Therefore, no D/ST TD for the NO Defence. They were not on the field at the time of the play, therefore there should be no stats for them.
If, at any point during the play, you are defending your end zone, you are the defense. If at some point during the play, you are defending your end zone, and you end up scoring, it should be a defensive touchdown.
This is contrary to your first statement.If you are going by NFL rules, you must apply them equally. If there was a turnover and WAS has possession of the ball, they became the offence. Then, when Meachem regained possession of the ball, he became offence again. The NO D/ST was not on the field at the time of the play, so therefore no points can be awarded to them for a play they never participated in.If you are saying that the Saints became defenders when WAS got the turnover, then you must equally say that WAS reverted back to D and NO became the offence once again when they got the turnover back. If one turnover reverses the O and D on the field a subsequent turnover puts them back to their original positions.
 
I would just like to see the rules that the NFL has in place for situations like this.
This is why you can't directly apply NFL rules to fantasy football.D/ST scoring is basically unique to FF. If we were to strictly interpret the NFL rules, there could never be a Defensive TD on an INT or fumble recovery since, by the NFL rules, the team with the ball becomes the offence. We, as FF players, recognize the spirit of the rules though and for the purposes of FF credit the D with a score.
 
And according to NFL rules, once the ball is turned over, the offense becomes the defense.
NFL rules can't be strictly applied to fantasy football as then there could never be a defensive TD.However, by your logic above, once WAS got the INT, they became the offence and Meachem and the rest of the Saints offence became D, correct?The moment Meachem gained possession of the ball, by default, he then became offence again. Therefore, no D/ST TD for the NO Defence. They were not on the field at the time of the play, therefore there should be no stats for them.
If, at any point during the play, you are defending your end zone, you are the defense. If at some point during the play, you are defending your end zone, and you end up scoring, it should be a defensive touchdown.
This is contrary to your first statement.If you are going by NFL rules, you must apply them equally. If there was a turnover and WAS has possession of the ball, they became the offence. Then, when Meachem regained possession of the ball, he became offence again. The NO D/ST was not on the field at the time of the play, so therefore no points can be awarded to them for a play they never participated in.If you are saying that the Saints became defenders when WAS got the turnover, then you must equally say that WAS reverted back to D and NO became the offence once again when they got the turnover back. If one turnover reverses the O and D on the field a subsequent turnover puts them back to their original positions.
Then how in the world do you define who the NO D/ST is, if not by their defense of their endzone?
 
(unwelcomed)GUEST said:
Joe Bryant said:
gianmarco said:
Did we REALLY need another thread on this topic? It's already been clearly covered here: Authoritative Meachem thread

:P
Yes. I'm getting lots of email on it and Bill's the guy I look to on stuff like this. Thought some would like it. Some will not and that's cool too.Plus, I see a lot of people getting it wrong in my opinion in the other thread. ;)

J
So why start a new thread, why not just add your $0.02 in the original and pin it? Is your ego so large that you need your own thread? Sheash, ya know guys like you are why the Shark Pool is so choked with multiple threads about the same topic! :mellow:

What would be helpful is a upgrade/downgrade waiver wire topic in the paid section early monday morning!

:lol: :pokey: :ph34r:
That other thread went off the deep end. Clarity is welcome, and that is what this thread brings... some clarity. Besides those facts, he is also an "expert" who makes his living on this hobby. That makes him more experienced and informed than most if not all others.
 
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I'm not debating that the NFL didn't score it that way. I would just like to see the rules that the NFL has in place for situations like this. Only one I have seen states that once the ball is turned over, the Saints became defenders.
That's true. But the same rule (Rule 36) also states that the Redskins become the offense. So if you're going to be strict about applying that rule all the time, then you have to say that fantasy defenses can never score touchdowns.The NFL does have "rules in place" to address this situation, but those rules are not designed with fantasy football in mind. By NFL rules, Meachem's TD would be described as follows:

- Meachem: 1 Misc Forced Fumble

- Meachem: 1 Misc Fumble Recovery

- Meachem: 1 Fumble Return TD

- Redskins: 1 Regular Defensive Interception

- Moore: 1 Fumble

- Moore: 1 Fumble Lost

The NFL does not really specify if these plays are "offense" or "defense" -- it just describes them as "Misc".

 
I'm not debating that the NFL didn't score it that way. I would just like to see the rules that the NFL has in place for situations like this. Only one I have seen states that once the ball is turned over, the Saints became defenders.
That's true. But the same rule (Rule 36) also states that the Redskins become the offense. So if you're going to be strict about applying that rule all the time, then you have to say that fantasy defenses can never score touchdowns.The NFL does have "rules in place" to address this situation, but those rules are not designed with fantasy football in mind. By NFL rules, Meachem's TD would be described as follows:

- Meachem: 1 Misc Forced Fumble

- Meachem: 1 Misc Fumble Recovery

- Meachem: 1 Fumble Return TD

- Redskins: 1 Regular Defensive Interception

- Moore: 1 Fumble

- Moore: 1 Fumble Lost

The NFL does not really specify if these plays are "offense" or "defense" -- it just describes them as "Misc".
I think when it comes down to it, I would be inclined to say that if at any point, the player is defending his end zone, he is a defensive player. So essentially once the ball is turned over once, if anyone scores, its defensive.
 
Joe Bryant said:
IF THE OFFENSE LOSES POSSESSION, THEN THE DEFENSE THAT GAINED POSSESSION SUBSEQUENTLY LOSES POSSESSION BACK TO THE OFFENSE AND THE OFFENSE SCORES, WHO SHOULD GET THE FANTASY POINTS?

This is born out of the infamous Keenan McCardell Monday Night Football fumble recovery touchdown. We have a full discussion of that play at here, but here are the general principles.



An offensive team is an offensive team and a defensive team is a defensive team. A change in possession does not change that or by definition, we could never have defensive touchdowns. As soon as the defensive team came into possession of the ball, they would become the offensive team. To think that designation changes at the time of a change of possession simply defies logic the way we play the game.
The bolded is all you need to know. The player started that play on OFFENSE, therefore everything he does is part of an OFFENSIVE play.
 
Just for the record, neither the word "offense" nor "defense" have a "c" in them. TIA.
Americans :tinfoilhat:What do you call someone who speaks three or more languages? Multilingual.What do you call someone who speaks two languages? Bilingual.What do you call someone who speaks one language? American.Did you know until the early 1900's all H's that began words were silent? Human, Horse, Horde were all pronounced the way Americans typically today pronounce Herb and Honor, with a silent H at the beginning.Also, it wasn't until the 50's that supersede began to use two S's instead of the internal S sound being a C (supercede)Just some things that may help you understand that not every grammar or spelling infraction you note is necessarily incorrect.
 
Thanks for the email. While my ruling is different than Bill's, his reference to the McCardell play helped. I went back to week 5, 2003 to see how I ruled back then. As it turns out, the same as I ruled this time. Both Meachem & Saints D getting the TD. I know others disagree, but doesn't matter much to me. This is what we decided then, so it's great to have precendence.

Thanks for the reminder about when this happened before so I could easily track it down.

 
Logically, if Brees had not have thrown the pick, Meachem couldn't have stripped it. So, I say Brees gets -1 for the int but also gets credited with a td pass.

 
The defense most certainly did score a TD. Meachem was trying to defend his end zone. It is pretty cut and dry.
THis would be correct. Unless he has recovered a 2nd fumble on special teams sometime this year, the NFL has credited him with a defensive fumble recovery. Thus he was 'on defense' Thus it is a defensive TD that he scored. He can't score an offensive TD when he recovered a fumble playing defense.

http://www.nfl.com/teams/neworleanssaints/statistics?team=NO

 
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I don't know why people are getting so confused. You either say:

A)Once on offense, always on offense. Meachem scored an offensive TD. If you give points for offensive fumble recovery TDs, give him points -- if you don't, don't. But NO DST clearly gets nothing or

B)A 'defensive TD' for fantasy purposes means 'a TD by a player who was protecting his end zone when he got the ball'. That is what we mean by the typical 'defensive TD' scored on a pick-six or fumble return. By that definition, Meachem's TD was a defensive TD and the NO DST should get the points.

This whole hooey of saying 'if you count one turnover, you have to count them both' is just that -- hooey. By that logic, there would be no defensive TDs at all. You count one turnover, which makes Meachem, say, a DB. Then Meachem the DB takes a fumble and runs it back for a TD -- very clearly a defensive TD.

You can go either way on this, that's fine. But at least make sense in justifying your position, please.

 
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