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Adams tells Fisher to play Vince Young now (1 Viewer)

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Per PFT:

Bud Adams tells Jeff Fisher to play Vince Young now

Posted by Mike Florio on October 27, 2009 7:08 AM ET On Monday, Titans coach Jeff Fisher was strangely non-committal regarding his starting quarterback, Kerry Collins.

Now we know why.

Owner Bud Adams, who has remained loyal to and supportive of former starter Vince Young, has told coach Jeff Fisher to flip the switch back to the third overall pick in the 2006 draft, according to Jim Wyatt of the Tennessean.

Adams previously made his wishes generally known in comments to the Tennessean, in the hours after a 59-0 thumping at Foxborough. Per Wyatt, Adams has been "more direct" regarding his desire to see Young back on the field.

Fisher, on Monday, was anything but direct.

"Both quarterbacks had a good week,'' Fisher said Monday regarding practices prior to the team's October 25 bye. "But [Kerry Collins] had an especially good week last week. . . . I am not going to go into details about lineup changes. Those are competitive issues.''

Young became the starter as a rookie, and he nearly led the team to a 2006 playoff berth despite an 0-5 start. He held the job through 2007, but an injury and an apparent emotional reaction (punctuated by a police search the following night after Young went missing) to being booed at home in Week One of the 2008 season prompted Fisher to go with Collins.

As the Titans piled up wins last year under Collins, finishing 13-3, Young became the forgotten man.

With the losses piling up this year, Adams wants to see what Young can do.

"If you don't play the guy and lose all your games, it is hard for you to see what he can do for you," Adams said on October 18. "Vince has won a lot of games for us.''

The Monday comments from Fisher suggest that the long-time coach believes Young won't spark a reversal -- and possibly that he'll only make things worse. The good news for Fisher is that, with a clear appearance being created that Young will be playing against Fisher's wishes, he'll be able to explain away a 2-14 or worse record when trying to get his next job by saying that he was forced to play a guy who no longer has it.

Of course, maybe Vince Young still has it. One way or the other, it looks like we'll be finding out on Sunday, when the Jaguars come to town.

The Titans and Mr. Young would appreciate it greatly if the paying customers refrain from booing, hissing, or otherwise expressing display with hand or finger gestures.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2009/...ince-young-now/

 
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If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
 
If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense. Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
 
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.

Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Not really, no.
 
Elaboration:

Code:
1999The Indy defense surrendered 20.8 PPG in the regular season. The Indy offense averaged 26.4 PPG. Manning posted a regular-season passer rating of 90.7.The Colts bowed out of the playoffs with a 19-16 loss to Tennessee. Manning posted a passer rating of 60.9 – his worst game of the season.2000The Indy defense surrendered 20.4 PPG in the regular season. The Indy offense averaged 26.8 PPG. Manning posted a regular-season passer rating of 94.7.The Colts bowed out of the playoffs with a 23-17 overtime loss to Miami. Manning posted a passer rating of 82.0 – the best performance of his career in a playoff loss, but fifth worst of the season.2002The Indy defense surrendered 19.6 PPG in the regular season. The Indy offense scored 21.8 PPG. Manning posted a regular-season passer rating of 88.8.The Colts bowed out of the playoffs with a 41-0 loss to the New York Jets. Manning posted a passer rating of 31.2 – the single worst game of his career.2003The Indy defense surrendered 21.0 PPG in the regular season. The Indy offense scored 27.9 PPG. Manning posted a regular-season passer rating of 99.0.The Colts bowed out of the playoffs with a 24-14 loss to New England. Manning posted a passer rating of 35.5 – his worst game of the season and third worst of his career.2004The Indy defense surrendered 21.9 PPG in the regular season. The Indy offense scored 32.6 PPG. Manning posted an NFL-record regular-season passer rating of 121.1.The Colts bowed out of the playoffs with a 20-3 loss to the New England. Manning posted a passer rating of 69.3 – his worst game of the season.
 
If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense. Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Football is a game of inches. Yes, 1 more yard and Fisher goes from being a very good coach to a great coach. If Vinatieri had missed those FGs, then Belicheck goes from being one of the greatest coaches to only a very good coach, like Fisher is now. That's just the way it works.Is he hall of fame material at this point? IMO, no. IF he had won that game against the Rams and taken the Titans to the AFC championship/Superbowl last year (in addition to the other AFC championship game in 2002), then I think he would merit consideration for HOF.
 
If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense. Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Football is a game of inches. Yes, 1 more yard and Fisher goes from being a very good coach to a great coach. If Vinatieri had missed those FGs, then Belicheck goes from being one of the greatest coaches to only a very good coach, like Fisher is now. That's just the way it works.Is he hall of fame material at this point? IMO, no. IF he had won that game against the Rams and taken the Titans to the AFC championship/Superbowl last year (in addition to the other AFC championship game in 2002), then I think he would merit consideration for HOF.
Yup, Peyton Manning wins one superbowl and he goes from playoff choke artist extraordinaire to "it was funny to consider such a thing".
 
Vince Young won plenty of games for Fisher. Seems like he has a personal agenda against Young and its getting in the way of performing his coaching job. There's simply no other explanation when a coach refuses to look to the future even after his team is 0-6. He shouldn't have to be ordered by the owner to do what everyone knows is the right move at this juncture. If Fisher is right about Vince, all he'd do is validate his assessment and improve his draft pick. While I think Fisher's a heck of a coach, he's not good enough to be irrational on a topic like this. He's setting the future of the franchise back (whether it's with or without Vince, pending Vince's performance) for seemingly his own personal agenda.

 
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Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.

When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?

 
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.

Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Not really, no.
well then you haven't been here long enough. go look back in the archives...there must've been a dozen multi-page threads years ago on how he couldn't win the big game, how he was a choker, etc. and it would always end up in a Brady vs. Manning slugfest. I thought it was ridiculous and argued as much.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
What's your definition of "working" when a team is 0-6? Some would say that if the team went 1-9 closing out with Vince, that 'worked' since it establishes he's not their future. I just don't see any way starting Kerry Collins serves any team agenda. Collins is not some 5-year vet who perhaps has his own a career still in front of him. You don't use a 40 year old QB to win a handful of games.
 
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If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense. Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Football is a game of inches. Yes, 1 more yard and Fisher goes from being a very good coach to a great coach. If Vinatieri had missed those FGs, then Belicheck goes from being one of the greatest coaches to only a very good coach, like Fisher is now. That's just the way it works.Is he hall of fame material at this point? IMO, no. IF he had won that game against the Rams and taken the Titans to the AFC championship/Superbowl last year (in addition to the other AFC championship game in 2002), then I think he would merit consideration for HOF.
regardless is if he or isn't, he's a hell of a coach and he would be unemployed for minutes if the Titans were stupid enough to fire him (I don't think they will).
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
What's your definition of "working" when a team is 0-7? Some would say that if the team went 1-8 closing out with Vince, that 'worked' since it establishes he's not their future. I just don't see any way starting Kerry Collins serves any team agenda. Collins is not some 5-year vet who has a career in front of him. You don't use a 40 year old QB to win a handful of games.
Fisher is trying to give his team the best chance to win each week and he knows that is with Collins. The owner is likely thinking of whether he should pay VY to be with the team next year so they have two different agendas. Fisher is in the film room each week with Young, on the practice field, in the locker room, and he knows whether or not he has what it takes. From what I've read I don't think Fisher ever wanted him, I think I read that he preferred Cutler but I think that was all rumor as no one will ever go on the record. Regardless, I trust Fishers judgement although neither alternative is very sexy.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
What's your definition of "working" when a team is 0-6? Some would say that if the team went 1-9 closing out with Vince, that 'worked' since it establishes he's not their future. I just don't see any way starting Kerry Collins serves any team agenda. Collins is not some 5-year vet who perhaps has his own a career still in front of him. You don't use a 40 year old QB to win a handful of games.
I think the Titans are going to beat the Jags no matter who the QB is. I think it would be better for the franchise and the fans of the Titans to let Vince get that win and start rolling on a good note. Now is the time to make that switch. Especially coming off of a bye.
 
All of those think Fisher is done need to look back and remember about 2 years ago the same things were being said.

Fisher would last about a day as a free agent if he got fired. Besides drafting Young was the OWERS decision not Fishers and the coaching staff - remember.

Busting on a #3 overall pick can set a franchise back years, we all know that. Collins's play was very unexpected - how many of you predicted that? He was a drunken bum with a bad attitude, prior to joining the Titans. His play last year was very good but if anything it shows how good the coaches did in playing to his strengths, this year defenses are taking that away.

 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.
Fisher knows this guy can't make the reads, he knows he can't make the completions. He allowed PacMan back on the field...this personal agenda stuff is ridiculous. He wants to win games and he's playing the guys that give him the best chance to do that.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.
Well, Fisher with McNair came pretty close to winning it all, didn't they? As far as Rivers goes, I'm not convinced he's an elite QB. He certainly wasn't there yet when Marty was the coach.
 
He should start Collins.
Why?VY is going to be owed a lot of money next year. If they don't think he is worth anything at this point...why is he still even on the team?Play him the rest of the year...see if there is anything there. If not, what have you lost? Nothing. They are done for this year. Time to see if it will ever be worth keeping VY.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.
Well, Fisher with McNair came pretty close to winning it all, didn't they? As far as Rivers goes, I'm not convinced he's an elite QB. He certainly wasn't there yet when Marty was the coach.
Marty would have made Johnny Unitas hand the ball off.-In fact I think he did coach JU one year.
 
I kind of think they may as well start Vince now.

BUT, let me speak from the perspective of a cowboys fan and say [sarcasm]when owners start thinking they should make the football decisions it almost always turns out very well for the team involved.[/sarcasm]

 
Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Not really, no.
well then you haven't been here long enough. go look back in the archives...there must've been a dozen multi-page threads years ago on how he couldn't win the big game, how he was a choker, etc. and it would always end up in a Brady vs. Manning slugfest. I thought it was ridiculous and argued as much.
No, no ... certificate still thinks Manning is a choker today.
 
The fact anyone things Collins should start is hilarious.

The Titans have no shot at the playoffs. Collins won't be with the team next year. Who's your starting QB? Are you going to draft a QB?

You're paying VY 5+ million, you need to give him 10 games so you can decide where you want to go next draft and next year.

If VY is awful, you cut him and draft a QB. If he shows some signs, maybe you draft a QB in the 3rd round vs the 1st rnd. But regardless you need to know what you have.

I've heard reports that Adams demanded they draft Young, and Fisher is probably looking to get fired. Fisher needs a new start anyway.

 
He should start Collins.
Why?VY is going to be owed a lot of money next year. If they don't think he is worth anything at this point...why is he still even on the team?Play him the rest of the year...see if there is anything there. If not, what have you lost? Nothing. They are done for this year. Time to see if it will ever be worth keeping VY.
Fisher already knows that answer.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.

When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
What's your definition of "working" when a team is 0-7? Some would say that if the team went 1-8 closing out with Vince, that 'worked' since it establishes he's not their future. I just don't see any way starting Kerry Collins serves any team agenda. Collins is not some 5-year vet who has a career in front of him. You don't use a 40 year old QB to win a handful of games.
Fisher is trying to give his team the best chance to win each week and he knows that is with Collins. The owner is likely thinking of whether he should pay VY to be with the team next year so they have two different agendas. Fisher is in the film room each week with Young, on the practice field, in the locker room, and he knows whether or not he has what it takes. From what I've read I don't think Fisher ever wanted him, I think I read that he preferred Cutler but I think that was all rumor as no one will ever go on the record. Regardless, I trust Fishers judgement although neither alternative is very sexy.
Agree to disagree. I think these last two sentences sum up the logical reasons for what is going on. Fisher never wanted Young so doggonit he's going with a 40-year old who offers no future to the team out of obstinance. Personally, I think he's trying to get fired, and all of this (the initial drafting of Young, despite his opinion) is a key reason.
 
Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.
Well, Fisher with McNair came pretty close to winning it all, didn't they? As far as Rivers goes, I'm not convinced he's an elite QB. He certainly wasn't there yet when Marty was the coach.
Right, but Marty had Brees before Rivers. Brees was very good his last couple of years in San Diego, and then was 1st team All Pro in his first season in New Orleans. Marty had his franchise QB and didn't take full advantage of him due to his offensive philosophy.
 
If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
I agree and almost everyone does that Fisher is a good coach. He builds the team from the o-line and the d-line up, and always has a defense that gives maximum effort. Usually he puts his team in a position to win every single game (with the exception of this year a few lean years in the early 2000s). He's won a lot of games and being the longest tenured coach in the NFL speaks for itself. But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation? Sure, he did coach in 1 Superbowl, and lost, but how many other years did he lose with a good playoff team? Steve McNair's (co)MVP season and last year come to mind, and IIRC both times they lost to the Ravens. Of course this is harsh criticism because MOST playoff teams lose. Also like Marty, sometimes Fisher has a tendency to be too conservative. He doesn't really play Martyball, but too many times fisher is willing to kick the fieldgoal on 4th and 1. This is a fine line, because usually he puts his team in a position to win, but he doesn't "go for the win." Last year's game against Baltimore comes to mind. Of course, he's surely a better coach than all but very few in the league (or on hiatus)... Belichick, Cowher, Shannahan, Jauron. Haha just kidding, got ya. But IMO, strictly based on sometimes-less-than-aggressive play calling and lack of rings, Fisher is one of the best "good" coaches, and not a "great" coach.Rebuttal?
Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.
1 more yard would have only tied the game (with the XP), not won it. On the flip side, I could say, "Take away the Music City Miracle and Fisher is sitting on 2 playoff wins right now." karmarooster's post was spot-on. Fisher doesn't have the playoff resume to be called a great coach or lumped in with the greats who HAVE won in the playoffs. 5 playoff wins in 15 years does not a great coach make.
 
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Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
What's your definition of "working" when a team is 0-6? Some would say that if the team went 1-9 closing out with Vince, that 'worked' since it establishes he's not their future. I just don't see any way starting Kerry Collins serves any team agenda. Collins is not some 5-year vet who perhaps has his own a career still in front of him. You don't use a 40 year old QB to win a handful of games.
I think the Titans are going to beat the Jags no matter who the QB is. I think it would be better for the franchise and the fans of the Titans to let Vince get that win and start rolling on a good note. Now is the time to make that switch. Especially coming off of a bye.
:lmao: Don't get me wrong, I don't think Vince would go 1-8. I was just pointing out that it really is not about what 'works' when a team is 0-6 and even massive failure by Young "works" in the sense that it clarifies the big picture, which is all that should matter to an 0-6 team. Whether Vince succeeds or fails, its imperative for this team to look forward. Certainly more important than trying to eek out 7 wins using a 40-year old.
 
He should start Collins.
Why?VY is going to be owed a lot of money next year. If they don't think he is worth anything at this point...why is he still even on the team?Play him the rest of the year...see if there is anything there. If not, what have you lost? Nothing. They are done for this year. Time to see if it will ever be worth keeping VY.
Fisher already knows that answer.
Well...Fisher also knows he has an owner to answer to who wants to see him on the field before spending any more on him or before cutting him.
 
He should start Collins.
Why?VY is going to be owed a lot of money next year. If they don't think he is worth anything at this point...why is he still even on the team?Play him the rest of the year...see if there is anything there. If not, what have you lost? Nothing. They are done for this year. Time to see if it will ever be worth keeping VY.
Fisher already knows that answer.
Well...Fisher also knows he has an owner to answer to who wants to see him on the field before spending any more on him or before cutting him.
Agreed and he'll probably end up playing him as a result.
 
But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation?
1. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs. Fisher is 5-6. That huge difference alone is really enough to answer your question.2. Marty is just 4-6 at home in the playoffs, so his teams lost 6 times when favored. Fisher is 2-2 at home in the playoffs, so his teams were upset just 2 times. Meanwhile, that means Marty's teams only won 1 time on the road in 8 attempts, while Fisher's teams won 3 times in 7 tries. So Fisher's teams have been better at home and on the road in the playoffs.3. Fisher has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Marty hasn't. And it helps Fisher's reputation that he took a wild card team that had to win twice on the road, and fell a yard short of putting the game into OT and possibly winning.4. Marty appears to be done, but Fisher isn't... he's 51. So he has many more years to extend his playoff record. If he goes on to lose several more games without winning many, he may very well be viewed like Marty. But he also could win a lot more games. The jury is out.Marty has one of the worst postseason head coaching resumes in NFL history. Fisher doesn't at this point. HTH.
 
1 more yard would have only tied the game (with the XP), not won it. On the flip side, I could say, "Take away the Music City Miracle and Fisher is sitting on 2 playoff wins right now." karmarooster's post was spot-on. Fisher doesn't have the playoff resume to be called a great coach or lumped in with the greats who HAVE won in the playoffs. 5 playoff wins in 15 years does not a great coach make.
I don't view Fisher as a head coaching "great". But his postseason accomplishments are far better than Marty's, which was the comparison karmarooster drew. 5 playoff wins in 15 seasons may not be great, but it's better than 5 in 21 seasons.
 
Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.

 
But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation?
1. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs. Fisher is 5-6. That huge difference alone is really enough to answer your question.2. Marty is just 4-6 at home in the playoffs, so his teams lost 6 times when favored. Fisher is 2-2 at home in the playoffs, so his teams were upset just 2 times. Meanwhile, that means Marty's teams only won 1 time on the road in 8 attempts, while Fisher's teams won 3 times in 7 tries. So Fisher's teams have been better at home and on the road in the playoffs.3. Fisher has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Marty hasn't. And it helps Fisher's reputation that he took a wild card team that had to win twice on the road, and fell a yard short of putting the game into OT and possibly winning.4. Marty appears to be done, but Fisher isn't... he's 51. So he has many more years to extend his playoff record. If he goes on to lose several more games without winning many, he may very well be viewed like Marty. But he also could win a lot more games. The jury is out.Marty has one of the worst postseason head coaching resumes in NFL history. Fisher doesn't at this point. HTH.
All true, but Marty does have a regular season winning percentage of .613 and his teams had a grand total of 2 losing seasons in 21 years. That is pretty unbelievable. Fisher, on the other hand, has a regular season winning percentage of .542 and, barring a miracle comeback by this year's team, has had just as many losing seasons as winning seasons with the Titans (6). 6 winning seasons in 15 years for Fisher is hardly something to brag about.
 
Fisher is still one of the top coaches in the NFL, but the guy needs a change of venue and probably a break...just like Shanny/Holmgren/Cowher did.

 
1 more yard would have only tied the game (with the XP), not won it. On the flip side, I could say, "Take away the Music City Miracle and Fisher is sitting on 2 playoff wins right now." karmarooster's post was spot-on. Fisher doesn't have the playoff resume to be called a great coach or lumped in with the greats who HAVE won in the playoffs. 5 playoff wins in 15 years does not a great coach make.
I don't view Fisher as a head coaching "great". But his postseason accomplishments are far better than Marty's, which was the comparison karmarooster drew. 5 playoff wins in 15 seasons may not be great, but it's better than 5 in 21 seasons.
Not a big Marty fan, but 13 postseason appearances in 21 seasons is far more impressive than 5 in 15 seasons, which is the Schottenheimer vs. Fisher comparison. Schottenheimer's postseason record is bad, but just like some like to say that Fisher could be a Super Bowl winning coach had Dyson gotten that extra yard and the Titans went on to win in OT, one could say that Schottenheimer's postseason record would be more impressive if not for some really bad luck. Is it his fault that Earnest Byner fumbled that ball inside the 5 against Denver? Is it his fault that Lin Elliot missed three field goals against the Colts in a playoff game they lost 10-7? Is it his fault that Nate Kaeding missed that kick against the Jets a few years back? Is it his fault that Marlon McCree fumbled that interception against the Patriots in '06? See what I mean? We could play the "what if" game all day.
 
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But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation?
1. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs. Fisher is 5-6. That huge difference alone is really enough to answer your question.2. Marty is just 4-6 at home in the playoffs, so his teams lost 6 times when favored. Fisher is 2-2 at home in the playoffs, so his teams were upset just 2 times. Meanwhile, that means Marty's teams only won 1 time on the road in 8 attempts, while Fisher's teams won 3 times in 7 tries. So Fisher's teams have been better at home and on the road in the playoffs.3. Fisher has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Marty hasn't. And it helps Fisher's reputation that he took a wild card team that had to win twice on the road, and fell a yard short of putting the game into OT and possibly winning.4. Marty appears to be done, but Fisher isn't... he's 51. So he has many more years to extend his playoff record. If he goes on to lose several more games without winning many, he may very well be viewed like Marty. But he also could win a lot more games. The jury is out.Marty has one of the worst postseason head coaching resumes in NFL history. Fisher doesn't at this point. HTH.
All true, but Marty does have a regular season winning percentage of .613 and his teams had a grand total of 2 losing seasons in 21 years. That is pretty unbelievable. Fisher, on the other hand, has a regular season winning percentage of .542 and, barring a miracle comeback by this year's team, has had just as many losing seasons as winning seasons with the Titans (6). 6 winning seasons in 15 years for Fisher is hardly something to brag about.
:coffee:karma appeared to be asking why Fisher isn't regarded more like Marty in terms of lack of postseason success, so I explained the reasons. I did not attempt to compare their regular season careers... it's obvious Marty has a much better regular season record. Fisher's regular season record is one reason that I said I don't view him as a coaching "great". Frankly, I think he is a bit overrated, though I do agree he would easily get another job if he were to leave the Titans.But you do make a good point as to why Marty has such a negative postseason record... his regular season accomplishments were so impressive that it makes his postseason struggles stand out as an even greater failure.
 
1 more yard would have only tied the game (with the XP), not won it. On the flip side, I could say, "Take away the Music City Miracle and Fisher is sitting on 2 playoff wins right now." karmarooster's post was spot-on. Fisher doesn't have the playoff resume to be called a great coach or lumped in with the greats who HAVE won in the playoffs. 5 playoff wins in 15 years does not a great coach make.
I don't view Fisher as a head coaching "great". But his postseason accomplishments are far better than Marty's, which was the comparison karmarooster drew. 5 playoff wins in 15 seasons may not be great, but it's better than 5 in 21 seasons.
Not a big Marty fan, but 13 postseason appearances in 21 seasons is far more impressive than 5 in 15 seasons, which is the Schottenheimer vs. Fisher comparison. Schottenheimer's postseason record is bad, but just like some like to say that Fisher could be a Super Bowl winning coach had Dyson gotten that extra yard and the Titans went on to win in OT, one could say that Schottenheimer's postseason record would be more impressive if not for some really bad luck. Is it his fault that Earnest Byner fumbled that ball inside the 5 against Denver? Is it his fault that Lin Elliot missed three field goals against the Colts in a playoff game they lost 10-7? Is it his fault that Nate Kaeding missed that kick against the Jets a few years back? Is it his fault that Marlon McCree fumbled that interception against the Patriots in '06? See what I mean? We could play the "what if" game all day.
The fact that Marty's teams made the postseason 13 times in 21 seasons is very impressive. But that is not a postseason accomplishment... that is a regular season accomplishment, since making the postseason is based upon regular season results. So, again, Fisher's postseason accomplishments are superior to Marty's, and by a substantial margin IMO... whereas Marty's regular season accomplishments are superior to Fisher's by a similarly substantial margin.I'm not playing any "what if" games. I stated fact. It is a fact that people view Fisher more positively because his wildcard playoff team was a yard from forcing OT against a favored Super Bowl opponent.You ask is it Marty's fault that certain events happened. Do you understand the difference between responsibility and accountability? Marty was not responsible for those events, but he is accountable for them. Just as his teams no doubt won some games because of things for which he was not responsible, yet he gets credit for those wins... because the head coach is accountable for wins and losses on the field.
 
All of those think Fisher is done need to look back and remember about 2 years ago the same things were being said.

Fisher would last about a day as a free agent if he got fired. Besides drafting Young was the OWNERS decision not Fishers and the coaching staff - remember.

Busting on a #3 overall pick can set a franchise back years, we all know that. Collins's play was very unexpected - how many of you predicted that? He was a drunken bum with a bad attitude, prior to joining the Titans. His play last year was very good but if anything it shows how good the coaches did in playing to his strengths, this year defenses are taking that away.
:P I remember, Fisher wanted to go defense but the owner wanted VY

 
As a Titans fan, I think we HAVE TO play Vince the rest of the season. I have very little confidence that he will succeed, but he needs to be given the chance. We CAN'T go into next year with this question still unanswered.

He's our "turn card" in Texas Hold 'Em. Good card = let it ride. Bad card = fold and try again next hand. If he has matured and developed the ability to read defenses, great. If he fails, we look for another QB.

 
But why doesn't Fish get more of a Marty Schottenheimer reputation?
1. Marty is 5-13 in the playoffs. Fisher is 5-6. That huge difference alone is really enough to answer your question.2. Marty is just 4-6 at home in the playoffs, so his teams lost 6 times when favored. Fisher is 2-2 at home in the playoffs, so his teams were upset just 2 times. Meanwhile, that means Marty's teams only won 1 time on the road in 8 attempts, while Fisher's teams won 3 times in 7 tries. So Fisher's teams have been better at home and on the road in the playoffs.3. Fisher has taken a team to the Super Bowl. Marty hasn't. And it helps Fisher's reputation that he took a wild card team that had to win twice on the road, and fell a yard short of putting the game into OT and possibly winning.4. Marty appears to be done, but Fisher isn't... he's 51. So he has many more years to extend his playoff record. If he goes on to lose several more games without winning many, he may very well be viewed like Marty. But he also could win a lot more games. The jury is out.Marty has one of the worst postseason head coaching resumes in NFL history. Fisher doesn't at this point. HTH.
All true, but Marty does have a regular season winning percentage of .613 and his teams had a grand total of 2 losing seasons in 21 years. That is pretty unbelievable. Fisher, on the other hand, has a regular season winning percentage of .542 and, barring a miracle comeback by this year's team, has had just as many losing seasons as winning seasons with the Titans (6). 6 winning seasons in 15 years for Fisher is hardly something to brag about.
:shrug:karma appeared to be asking why Fisher isn't regarded more like Marty in terms of lack of postseason success, so I explained the reasons. I did not attempt to compare their regular season careers... it's obvious Marty has a much better regular season record. Fisher's regular season record is one reason that I said I don't view him as a coaching "great". Frankly, I think he is a bit overrated, though I do agree he would easily get another job if he were to leave the Titans.But you do make a good point as to why Marty has such a negative postseason record... his regular season accomplishments were so impressive that it makes his postseason struggles stand out as an even greater failure.
This initial comparison I made was about Marty and Fisher for two reasons: 1.) lack of postseason success and 2.) overly conservative play calling. He doesn't run the ball as much as Marty, but he isn't as daring as Belicheck. You proved that he isn't as unsuccessful in the post-season as Marty.I don't know the "average" record for coaches in the playoffs and the regular season, but these statistics reinforce the fact that Fisher is good/above-average, but not great. Of course, good/above-average is better than all but a handful of current NFL coaches.
 
Despite all the crap that Marty takes, he had a winning gameplan in his last playoff game against New England, and if that stupid cornerback can just hold onto the ball or simply goes down after the interception, I think the Chargers might have gotten a ring that year. And then Marty got fired over that loss. Very stupid. The Chargers have never been as good since.

 

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