Or Carolina if Cowher doesn't take it. Or maybe Jax after Del Rio is fired. He'll have a few choices but I still think he stays on as coach.Hmmmm ... Fischer to Buffalo? I was thinking Gruden, but JF might be a good candidate
I'll put my money on Dallas.Or Carolina if Cowher doesn't take it. Or maybe Jax after Del Rio is fired. He'll have a few choices but I still think he stays on as coach.Hmmmm ... Fischer to Buffalo? I was thinking Gruden, but JF might be a good candidate
...and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
Unless VY can play CB or safety he ain't gonna help a whole lot no matter how good he plays. They are spotting every eam 21 pts on their 1st 3 1st qtr drives and it goes downhill from there......and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
Marty did plenty to screw up that game with his bad decisions. I'd go into it again but I don't need the stress.Despite all the crap that Marty takes, he had a winning gameplan in his last playoff game against New England, and if that stupid cornerback can just hold onto the ball or simply goes down after the interception, I think the Chargers might have gotten a ring that year. And then Marty got fired over that loss. Very stupid. The Chargers have never been as good since.
Well, yeah...the defense does suck...but the offense hasn't been setting the world on fire lately, either. I actually was hoping he'd get a chance earlier on in the season, but once it started looking like this team had quit ...Unless VY can play CB or safety he ain't gonna help a whole lot no matter how good he plays. They are spotting every eam 21 pts on their 1st 3 1st qtr drives and it goes downhill from there......and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
I don't think wins and losses are really relevant at this point. If Vince Young is good, you'll know.The problem is, I think we already do know.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
I think it'd have more to do with the offensive improvement (or lack thereof) resulting from the switch to Young. The offense is averaging 14 points a game while the defense is giving up 33 points a game. Young could increase offensive production by a touchdown or two and they'd still be losing games because of the defense.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
with the way this defense is playing he's not going to win many, if any games, he's not CutlerThat brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
OK, I agree. So, in your eyes, if you could see that hsi play and his chemistry in the offense were the reason for the increased offensive production, would that be enough to call it a success?I think it'd have more to do with the offensive improvement (or lack thereof) resulting from the switch to Young. The offense is averaging 14 points a game while the defense is giving up 33 points a game. Young could increase offensive production by a touchdown or two and they'd still be losing games because of the defense.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
Absolutely.I don't get why Fisher wouldn't give Young a try at this point. Is he afraid they'll lose worse than they're losing now with Collins? They didn't exactly look like they were turning the corner heading into the bye. I don't think there's anything Collins brings that will improve their season. Maybe starting Young could stunt the growth of a guy like Kenny Britt? Seems like a reach to me.OK, in your eyes, if you could see that hsi play and his chemistry in the offense were the reason for the increased offensive production, would that be enough to call it a success?I think it'd have more to do with the offensive improvement (or lack thereof) resulting from the switch to Young. The offense is averaging 14 points a game while the defense is giving up 33 points a game. Young could increase offensive production by a touchdown or two and they'd still be losing games because of the defense.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
I don't think we do. He made huge improvements in every week during this preseason. He was quicker in his reads every week, improved his footwork, his release, and was delivering the ball on time and on target consistently in the last couple of games. I know it was only the preseason, but he was performing very well, and that's a whole lot better than playing poorly in the preseason. So he needs to be looked at with extended playing time with first-teamers in regular season real-game conditions.I don't think wins and losses are really relevant at this point. If Vince Young is good, you'll know.The problem is, I think we already do know.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
Those were just bandwagon Patriot fans. They had and have no idea about football.well then you haven't been here long enough. go look back in the archives...there must've been a dozen multi-page threads years ago on how he couldn't win the big game, how he was a choker, etc. and it would always end up in a Brady vs. Manning slugfest. I thought it was ridiculous and argued as much.Not really, no.Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.
Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
Indeed...and VY and Britt were doing pretty well in a couple games in the preseason...Absolutely.I don't get why Fisher wouldn't give Young a try at this point. Is he afraid they'll lose worse than they're losing now with Collins? They didn't exactly look like they were turning the corner heading into the bye. I don't think there's anything Collins brings that will improve their season. Maybe starting Young could stunt the growth of a guy like Kenny Britt? Seems like a reach to me.OK, in your eyes, if you could see that hsi play and his chemistry in the offense were the reason for the increased offensive production, would that be enough to call it a success?I think it'd have more to do with the offensive improvement (or lack thereof) resulting from the switch to Young. The offense is averaging 14 points a game while the defense is giving up 33 points a game. Young could increase offensive production by a touchdown or two and they'd still be losing games because of the defense.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
cmon, you know as well as I do in the preseason the opposing defenses aren't going to give you anything. They aren't going to gameplan and blitz and disguise their defenses...they are going to play plain vanilla and this suits VY great because he's an athlete and can do the simple things. It's decision making and making the reads that he can't do and in season games are completely different than preseason. Like I said earlier, Fisher is in the film room, he's on the practice field, he's in the lockerroom and if he felt VY truly gave his team the best chance to win he would play him.I don't think we do. He made huge improvements in every week during this preseason. He was quicker in his reads every week, improved his footwork, his release, and was delivering the ball on time and on target consistently in the last couple of games. I know it was only the preseason, but he was performing very well, and that's a whole lot better than playing poorly in the preseason. So he needs to be looked at with extended playing time with first-teamers in regular season real-game conditions.I don't think wins and losses are really relevant at this point. If Vince Young is good, you'll know.The problem is, I think we already do know.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
Those were just bandwagon Patriot fans. They had and have no idea about football.well then you haven't been here long enough. go look back in the archives...there must've been a dozen multi-page threads years ago on how he couldn't win the big game, how he was a choker, etc. and it would always end up in a Brady vs. Manning slugfest. I thought it was ridiculous and argued as much.Not really, no.Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.
Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.
I think it's pretty basic....I think he thinks that even though Collins is bad that he gives them the best chance to win the game this week. As a coach you are trying to keep it together and get everyone to buy into what you are selling and giving up is not an option so he's trying to put what he thinks is the best team on the field that gives him the best chance of winning each week.Absolutely.I don't get why Fisher wouldn't give Young a try at this point. Is he afraid they'll lose worse than they're losing now with Collins? They didn't exactly look like they were turning the corner heading into the bye. I don't think there's anything Collins brings that will improve their season. Maybe starting Young could stunt the growth of a guy like Kenny Britt? Seems like a reach to me.OK, in your eyes, if you could see that hsi play and his chemistry in the offense were the reason for the increased offensive production, would that be enough to call it a success?I think it'd have more to do with the offensive improvement (or lack thereof) resulting from the switch to Young. The offense is averaging 14 points a game while the defense is giving up 33 points a game. Young could increase offensive production by a touchdown or two and they'd still be losing games because of the defense.That brings up a good question...maybe someone else already mentioned it, I dunno...what would be enough to consider his play a success from here on out, just in terms of wins and losses? The Titans are 0-6 and have lost 8 straight and 9 of 10. Let's say the defense continues to play like crap. How many of the Titans 10 remaining games do they have to win with VY at the helm for his play to be considered successful?
I'm just not seeing the justification for sticking with Collins either on film or on the stat sheet. There's no upside to Collins now, you need an offense that can score and a QB that puts pressure on a defense because your own defense is atrocious and you can't win with a game manager. You have to take a chance on Young knowing he's been that threat before. I think it's more likely that the team quits if he sticks with Collins without giving Young a chance than if he gives Young a shot and Young stinks it up. Unless Fisher has discerned that Young will run directly to the wrong endzone and start doing snow angels as soon as he takes the snap, or something like that, I can't get on board with the idea that Collins gives them a better chance to win than Young at this point.I think it's pretty basic....I think he thinks that even though Collins is bad that he gives them the best chance to win the game this week. As a coach you are trying to keep it together and get everyone to buy into what you are selling and giving up is not an option so he's trying to put what he thinks is the best team on the field that gives him the best chance of winning each week.
I remember a big conversation about what "it" was and some these bandwagonners just knew that Manning didn't have it, while Brady did. These people are better off watching tennis.Those were just bandwagon Patriot fans. They had and have no idea about football.well then you haven't been here long enough. go look back in the archives...there must've been a dozen multi-page threads years ago on how he couldn't win the big game, how he was a choker, etc. and it would always end up in a Brady vs. Manning slugfest. I thought it was ridiculous and argued as much.Not really, no.Last year they win their playoff game running away if C. Johnson doesn't get an ankle sprain. The same criticism was given of Cowher until he finally won one and then he's a legend. All you can do is put your team in a position to win and I think he does that as well as anyone. In the Titans superbowl vs. the Rams if they get 1 more yard then all the sudden Fisher is a great coach? Nonsense.
Remember when Manning was a choker? Seems funny now doesn't it.![]()
Ever the cynic, I'm suggesting it's all part of Fisher's exit strategy. I don't think he wants his job saved by Young, if it means being forced to start this QB he never wanted to begin with. However, if Vince does succeed it looks pretty bad for Fisher by implication; i.e. that he's stubboirnly refused to embrace the QB his ownership insisted taking, even when he could have in fact helped the team. Either way, I think the ramifications of that draft pick, and the power struggle, is still playing out. Frankly, I don't get it since Vince had a nice run as starter in Tennessee, pulling the team up from non-competitive (i.e. having a #3 pick overall) to playoffs early on....and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
This is pretty much the only reason to play the guy. The Titans need to find out if Young can be a decent backup QB.Vince's play will at least let them know that they need to aquire REAL QB next year.
No way they pay Young the kind of scratch he's pulling down to be a backup. He's either their starter or he's not with the team next year.This is pretty much the only reason to play the guy. The Titans need to find out if Young can be a decent backup QB.Vince's play will at least let them know that they need to aquire REAL QB next year.
Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won. I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?I'm just not seeing the justification for sticking with Collins either on film or on the stat sheet. There's no upside to Collins now, you need an offense that can score and a QB that puts pressure on a defense because your own defense is atrocious and you can't win with a game manager. You have to take a chance on Young knowing he's been that threat before. I think it's more likely that the team quits if he sticks with Collins without giving Young a chance than if he gives Young a shot and Young stinks it up.I think it's pretty basic....I think he thinks that even though Collins is bad that he gives them the best chance to win the game this week. As a coach you are trying to keep it together and get everyone to buy into what you are selling and giving up is not an option so he's trying to put what he thinks is the best team on the field that gives him the best chance of winning each week.
Does he make alot? I forgot. I guess if he does, then maybe they'd want to showcase him for trading purposes. I'm not sure why else he'd start.No way they pay Young the kind of scratch he's pulling down to be a backup. He's either their starter or he's not with the team next year.This is pretty much the only reason to play the guy. The Titans need to find out if Young can be a decent backup QB.Vince's play will at least let them know that they need to aquire REAL QB next year.
Not that I necessarily blame him, but it would drop Fisher down a few pegs, IMO, if he wasn't doing all he could to give the team a chance to win. (He would actually be a perfect fit for Dallas if that were true). I've always thought of Fisher as being a classy guy and a good coach. His teams seem to always play hard. I don't blame him for not wanting Vince, but if that were the case, why wouldn't he have gotten out then?Ever the cynic, I'm suggesting it's all part of Fisher's exit strategy. I don't think he wants his job saved by Young, if it means being forced to start this QB he never wanted to begin with. However, if Vince does succeed it looks pretty bad for Fisher by implication; i.e. that he's stubboirnly refused to embrace the QB his ownership insisted taking, even when he could have in fact helped the team. Either way, I think the ramifications of that draft pick, and the power struggle, is still playing out. Frankly, I don't get it since Vince had a nice run as starter in Tennessee, pulling the team up from non-competitive (i.e. having a #3 pick overall) to playoffs early on....and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
I think he's got a bonus coming up (several million) next year. He's untradable at this point...it's basically a question if they want to pay him the money to keep him or let him walk. He'll walk.Does he make alot? I forgot. I guess if he does, then maybe they'd want to showcase him for trading purposes. I'm not sure why else he'd start.No way they pay Young the kind of scratch he's pulling down to be a backup. He's either their starter or he's not with the team next year.This is pretty much the only reason to play the guy. The Titans need to find out if Young can be a decent backup QB.Vince's play will at least let them know that they need to aquire REAL QB next year.
This whole not playing Vince thing is funny (I'm not responding directly to you Mookie). He did play him..it's not as if they drafted him and he's refused to play him. He played him his rookie year down the stretch and he did well and some things broke right and the hype train exploded. Then he played the following year and was bad and then started last year and had a meltdown. The Titans homers can probably recall it better than me but VY after his 1st year I think talked about quiting, then there was the whole suicide thing that Fisher got involved with, and then he still started the season last year and played horribly and Collins stabilized the team. I'm sure Fisher knows his temperment, his skillset, his intelligence, his grasp of the offense and what the defenses are trying to do 100X more than anyone on this board. Let's all not revise history now and act as if VY hasn't been given a chance.Not that I necessarily blame him, but it would drop Fisher down a few pegs, IMO, if he wasn't doing all he could to give the team a chance to win. (He would actually be a perfect fit for Dallas if that were true). I've always thought of Fisher as being a classy guy and a good coach. His teams seem to always play hard. I don't blame him for not wanting Vince, but if that were the case, why wouldn't he have gotten out then?Ever the cynic, I'm suggesting it's all part of Fisher's exit strategy. I don't think he wants his job saved by Young, if it means being forced to start this QB he never wanted to begin with. However, if Vince does succeed it looks pretty bad for Fisher by implication; i.e. that he's stubboirnly refused to embrace the QB his ownership insisted taking, even when he could have in fact helped the team. Either way, I think the ramifications of that draft pick, and the power struggle, is still playing out. Frankly, I don't get it since Vince had a nice run as starter in Tennessee, pulling the team up from non-competitive (i.e. having a #3 pick overall) to playoffs early on....and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
Exactly.Ever the cynic, I'm suggesting it's all part of Fisher's exit strategy. I don't think he wants his job saved by Young, if it means being forced to start this QB he never wanted to begin with. However, if Vince does succeed it looks pretty bad for Fisher by implication; i.e. that he's stubboirnly refused to embrace the QB his ownership insisted taking, even when he could have in fact helped the team. Either way, I think the ramifications of that draft pick, and the power struggle, is still playing out. Frankly, I don't get it since Vince had a nice run as starter in Tennessee, pulling the team up from non-competitive (i.e. having a #3 pick overall) to playoffs early on....and this time if Young succeeds he probably won't save Fish's job the way he did in 2006, because the boss had to publicly tell him to put VY in.Fisher doesn't want to start Young because he's afraid he will succeed, not that he'll fail. There, I said it.
Last year's record has nothing to do with what's going on with the team now. What could Young be doing that is that bad to keep him out of consideration? Is every pass he throws in practice a pick? Can he not remember any plays? Is he not showing up? I think we'd be hearing about something that drastic if that's the case. Like Scottsman said, Young looked good in preseason - has he regressed since then? I'm having a tough time imagining the scenario for Young that would make it so clear that he might not be able to help the team more than Collins right now. Besides that, there comes a point where winning individual games isn't as important as preparing the team for the long term. The Titans are just about there. One more loss and they're definitely there as I don't think a 9 win team is going to get a wildcard in the AFC.Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won. I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?
I've wondered about that, too, but I haven't heard one way or the other. VY seems like a different guy this year, though. In much better shape. Always clean cut, and speaking very positively, and always in terms of the team rather than "me".Agreed, also, that VY has never won 13 games with the Titans, but he has won 10, and without as good of a defense or Chris Johnson. He also hasn't ever been 0-5 or 0-6.Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won. I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?I'm just not seeing the justification for sticking with Collins either on film or on the stat sheet. There's no upside to Collins now, you need an offense that can score and a QB that puts pressure on a defense because your own defense is atrocious and you can't win with a game manager. You have to take a chance on Young knowing he's been that threat before. I think it's more likely that the team quits if he sticks with Collins without giving Young a chance than if he gives Young a shot and Young stinks it up.I think it's pretty basic....I think he thinks that even though Collins is bad that he gives them the best chance to win the game this week. As a coach you are trying to keep it together and get everyone to buy into what you are selling and giving up is not an option so he's trying to put what he thinks is the best team on the field that gives him the best chance of winning each week.
I find this pretty uncompelling. There's simply no way of knowing how VY would have done last year; certainly it was an all-around talented team with Haynesworth leading the defense and the addition of a breakout offensive player like Chris Johnson. The only good point of comparison for Collins vs. Young is 2006 when Collins started off the season with a 42 QB rating and Young supplanted him, nearly leading a pretty blah team to the playoffs. Shouldn't how the two guys compared on the same team be more relevant? Moreover, shouldn't it matter that Young led the team (pre-C.Johnson) to the playoffs with 10 wins in 2007? It's not as if Collins set the world on fire in 2008, with 2600 yards and 12 TDs over his 15+ weeks of action. That season was about defense and winning with a vastly improved running game.Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won.
It's pure speculation, but I really don't think this has anything to do with how good Young is. With all due respect I think Fisher has always tolerated the selection of Young, and Young flaking out at the beginning of 2008 gave Fisher his perfect justification to do what he wanted. But he doesn't have that justification now, when the team is 0-6, yet he remains obstinate. Frankly, I think this team could be 0-15 and Fisher would refuse to play Young because he will never let him out of the doghouse, ever. I think there is a lot of ego and power struggle involved here which transcends who is good or bad. What I'm sensing here is Titan fans not wanting to acknowledge the elephant in the room... that the selection of Vince Young 4 years ago, over Fisher's objection, probably will cost them their great coach. Not because Vince Young is a bad QB, but because the great coach doesn't have it in him to cook a meal using groceries imposed on him by others.I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?
Maybe Al Davis should look into aquiring him, he would be an upgrade over Russell.I think he's got a bonus coming up (several million) next year. He's untradable at this point...it's basically a question if they want to pay him the money to keep him or let him walk. He'll walk.Does he make alot? I forgot. I guess if he does, then maybe they'd want to showcase him for trading purposes. I'm not sure why else he'd start.No way they pay Young the kind of scratch he's pulling down to be a backup. He's either their starter or he's not with the team next year.This is pretty much the only reason to play the guy. The Titans need to find out if Young can be a decent backup QB.Vince's play will at least let them know that they need to aquire REAL QB next year.
my point with showing the record is that people come back to the old "VY is a winner" argument...well so is Collins. I agree that last year was a different animal and everything broke right for them last year, injury wise, schedule, etc. and this year it's the complete opposite. I'm not opposed to them playing Young, I really could care less. I don't have a horse in this race and I'm not a Titan fan (although I've become a fan of Fisher through the years). I personally never thought VY was a good QB and got a good bit of heat when the hype train was out of control. I think just Fisher already knows that VY is not the man for the job so if that's the case why audition him?Last year's record has nothing to do with what's going on with the team now. What could Young be doing that is that bad to keep him out of consideration? Is every pass he throws in practice a pick? Can he not remember any plays? Is he not showing up? I think we'd be hearing about something that drastic if that's the case. Like Scottsman said, Young looked good in preseason - has he regressed since then? I'm having a tough time imagining the scenario for Young that would make it so clear that he might not be able to help the team more than Collins right now. Besides that, there comes a point where winning individual games isn't as important as preparing the team for the long term. The Titans are just about there. One more loss and they're definitely there as I don't think a 9 win team is going to get a wildcard in the AFC.Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won. I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?
Its not black or white. Fisher is a really good coach. He developed a great game plan against one of the most explosive teams of all time and his team came up 1 yard short of a SB victory. He knows how to build a team and gets the most out of his players.In the case of Vince however, he does seem to be irrationally refusing to give him another shot. I'm not sure what his reasoning is, but it is time to pull the plug on Collins.Steve McNair was a franchise QB. Isn't Philip Rivers, too? Sorry but you can't say Fisher and marty haven't gotten good enough QB play to win big games. Also, I totally agree with BigJim. Fisher is hurt the franchise by not playing Vince, because either they win games or they find out they need to draft another QB with their top 5 pick next year.Cowher, like Marty, and now apparently like Fisher, was always labeled as too conservative a coach, especially in the playoffs. Then he got a franchise QB, and now he's considered an elite coach. Which he always was anyway.When was the last time an owner overruled a head coach involving a personnel decision and it worked?
My only argument is you know what you've got in Collins - and it isn't good, and it isn't going to win you games with this year's team. You're not sure what you've got in Young - sometimes he's a disaster, sometimes he's a dynamic playmaker. If he gives you the latter, it could win some games for you with this year's team. If you could cultivate/harness that it could lead to a viable starting QB going forward. Sticking with Collins makes no sense unless there's something absolutely bananas with Young that is a tightly held secret by Fisher and his staff.my point with showing the record is that people come back to the old "VY is a winner" argument...well so is Collins...I think just Fisher already knows that VY is not the man for the job so if that's the case why audition him?
That's the beauty of it from Fisher's perspective. If Kerry Collins rides out the year, even pulling the team to 4-12, the team will be without the QB Fisher never wanted in 2010. Why? Because they would never pay the $14 million bonus next year unless Young did something spectacular in 2009. But all bets are off if Young plays 10 games. He's shown before he can lead a non-competitive team to the cusp of the playoffs, and what happens if he does that? I'll tell you what happens, Fisher wants nothing to do with the team at that point because his own arrogance won't put up with it. And again, I think Fisher is a great coach, but he'll not allow this situation to play out like it should. He wants Young on the bench, and consequently off the team in 2010.I think he's got a bonus coming up (several million) next year. He's untradable at this point...it's basically a question if they want to pay him the money to keep him or let him walk. He'll walk.
Again, I don't believe in some Fisher-VY conspiracy theory. If he really hated VY he wouldn't played him his rookie year but he did, he then stuck by him all through an awful 2nd year. Even though he played lousy he was still the starter going into last year, then VY basically melted down and quit on the team and then the team went on to have the best record in football. It's not as if you've got this awesome player and a stubborn coach who refuses to play him. He played him, he played bad and he quit and lost his job.Regarding the record quote I agree that it's uncompelling but people used that "VY is a winner" schtick for a year while I among others argued how bad a QB he was.I find this pretty uncompelling. There's simply no way of knowing how VY would have done last year; certainly it was an all-around talented team with Haynesworth leading the defense and the addition of a breakout offensive player like Chris Johnson. The only good point of comparison for Collins vs. Young is 2006 when Collins started off the season with a 42 QB rating and Yound supplanted him, nearly leading a pretty blah team to the playoffs. Shouldn't how the two guys compared on the same team be more relevant? Moreover, shouldn't it matter that Young led the team (pre-C.Johnson) to the playoffs with 10 wins in 2007? It's not as if Collins set the world on fire in 2008, with 2600 yards and 12 TDs over his 15+ weeks of action. That season was about defense and winning with a vastly improved running game.Collins was 13-3 last year which is more games than VY has ever won.It's pure speculation, but I really don't think this has anything to do with how good Young is. With all due respect I think Fisher has always tolerated the selection of Young, and Young flaking out at the beginning of 2008 gave Fisher his perfect juustification to do what he wanted. But he doesn;t have that justification now, when the team is 0-6, and he remains obstinate. Frankly, I think this team could be 0-15 and Fisher would refuse to play Young because he will never let him out of the doghouse, ever. I think there is a lot of ego and power struggle involved here which transcends who is good or bad. What I'm sensing here is Titan fans not wanting to acknowledge the elephant in the room... that the selection of Vince Young 4 years ago, over Fisher's objection, probably will cost them their great coach. Not because Vince Young is a bad QB, but because the great coach doesn't have it in him to cook a meal using groceries imposed on him by others.I agree that Collins has no upside and he's not playing well which tells me how bad VY must be if a good coach like Fisher won't put him in on his own. I don't know if there's any VY ground swell building inside the team (at least I haven't heard anything)...didn't he quit/almost quit on them last year when he was the starter?
I really don't think it's that complicated or Fisher has this grand plan. Maybe it's as simple as the QB is your leader and as a leader he quit and he doesn't want to want to rely on him again and have him fold up again. Like I said, he knows him better than everyone on this board times 10. I'll trust his judgement. All that being said, I think VY will get some starts going down the stretch and be a FA next year.That's the beauty of it from Fisher's perspective. If Kerry Collins rides out the year, even pulling the team to 4-12, the team will be without the QB Fisher never wanted in 2010. Why? Because they would never pay the $14 million bonus next year unless Young did something spectacular in 2009. But all bets are off if Young plays 10 games. He's shown before he can lead a non-competitive team to the cusp of the playoffs, and what happens if he does that? I'll tell you what happens, Fisher wants nothing to do with the team at that point because his own arrogance won't put up with it. And again, I think Fisher is a great coach, but he'll not allow this situation to play out like it should. He wants Young on the bench, and consequently off the team in 2010.I think he's got a bonus coming up (several million) next year. He's untradable at this point...it's basically a question if they want to pay him the money to keep him or let him walk. He'll walk.
Ok, well check back as this thing unfolds. I really don't think Fisher had any other option in 2006 than to play Young, coming off a horrid season and the team going nowhere starting 2006 at 0-3. I also think it's a tad ridiculous to suggest Fisher "stuck by him" the following "awful" year when Young led that team to the playoffs and a 10-6 record. If that's awful, then how the heck do you praise Collins' 2600/12 TD performance in 2008? You're talking out of both sides of your mouth here IMHO. I'll admit I'm speculating a lot in this thread, but the fact is Fisher jumped on his opportunity to get Young on the bench, and is irrationally perpetuating it with an 0-6 team. There aren't too many great explanations for that when Young did lead a bad team to the cusp of the playoffs in 2006, and a mediocre one to the playoffs in 2007. Unless you feel he simply forgot how to lead a team at that point. I'll go with conspiracy theory myself.Again, I don't believe in some Fisher-VY conspiracy theory. If he really hated VY he wouldn't played him his rookie year but he did, he then stuck by him all through an awful 2nd year.
Two Deep, you would be an upgrade over Russell.Maybe Al Davis should look into aquiring him, he would be an upgrade over Russell.
I can't remember who Phil Simms was talking about the other day, but he summed it all up really nicely. He was talking about a qb who had thrown a pick or two and then came back and ended up making the play he needed to to win the game. He said football is a game of adversity. You're going to make mistakes and you have to fight through them. You have to have a short memory and keep fighting back and keep trying to make plays, and just because you get picked off it doesn't mean you quit throwing the ball....and he was more eloquent than that. I'm not always a fan of Simms, but sometimes he says things that are very incisive and show uncommon wisdom, and I think this was one of them.But some coaches never get this. With some players, they are real game-changers, but they can also look awful at times. With these guys you have to have the stomach to take the bad with the good and the patience to get to the point where the good outweighs the bad consistently. It's not always pretty at first, but the end result can be a thing of beauty.My only argument is you know what you've got in Collins - and it isn't good, and it isn't going to win you games with this year's team. You're not sure what you've got in Young - sometimes he's a disaster, sometimes he's a dynamic playmaker. If he gives you the latter, it could win some games for you with this year's team. If you could cultivate/harness that it could lead to a viable starting QB going forward. Sticking with Collins makes no sense unless there's something absolutely bananas with Young that is a tightly held secret by Fisher and his staff.my point with showing the record is that people come back to the old "VY is a winner" argument...well so is Collins...I think just Fisher already knows that VY is not the man for the job so if that's the case why audition him?
He is a good coach. He is not an elite coach...or a great coach...or a terrific coach. He is a good coach.You get consistency, you get low key, you get low controversy. You get more than average in-season wins.You get field goals. Lots of 'em. Lots of exciting games decided by 1 point in the last minute.He is a good coach.Probably best for all involved that they part ways. Yep, he'll be scooped up quickly. Nope, we don't know what we might get. But...15 years of just above average isn't what the fans want. It also doesn't lend itself to a style that FA players flock to.Good luck, Fish. See if you get away with the Senior Smug act in a bigger market.If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
Two Deep, you would be an upgrade over Russell.Maybe Al Davis should look into aquiring him, he would be an upgrade over Russell.
Bill Cowher would disagree.He is a good coach. He is not an elite coach...or a great coach...or a terrific coach. He is a good coach.You get consistency, you get low key, you get low controversy. You get more than average in-season wins.If so, he'll be signed by someone before he leaves the Titans complex. He's a terrific coach.
You get field goals. Lots of 'em. Lots of exciting games decided by 1 point in the last minute.
He is a good coach.
Probably best for all involved that they part ways. Yep, he'll be scooped up quickly. Nope, we don't know what we might get. But...15 years of just above average isn't what the fans want. It also doesn't lend itself to a style that FA players flock to.
Good luck, Fish. See if you get away with the Senior Smug act in a bigger market.
I think it could be said that Marty often gets teams to play above their heads in the regular season, but when faced with an even or superior opponent in the playoffs, they don't measure up, which explains his poor playoff record. Not always the case, but sometimes. For example, in '97, hardly anyone actually thought the Chiefs were a better team than the Broncos, but they snuck past them to win the division at 13-3, while the Broncos were 12-4. but when they faced in the second round, the Broncos won (and eventually went on to win the Super Bowl). Of course, there are cases where his team lost to a team that was definitely inferior (the Jets back in '05).But you do make a good point as to why Marty has such a negative postseason record... his regular season accomplishments were so impressive that it makes his postseason struggles stand out as an even greater failure.
Well, obviously. If a coach gets credit for the wins, they get the knocks for the losses, too. That is how it always works with QBs, too, most of the time. I am just saying, he has had a few games where bad luck or a fluke play or something prevented his team from winning. The same cannot be said for Fisher, who doesn't get to the playoffs enough for that to happen.You ask is it Marty's fault that certain events happened. Do you understand the difference between responsibility and accountability? Marty was not responsible for those events, but he is accountable for them. Just as his teams no doubt won some games because of things for which he was not responsible, yet he gets credit for those wins... because the head coach is accountable for wins and losses on the field.
Yep.Vince Young won plenty of games for Fisher. Seems like he has a personal agenda against Young and its getting in the way of performing his coaching job. There's simply no other explanation when a coach refuses to look to the future even after his team is 0-6. He shouldn't have to be ordered by the owner to do what everyone knows is the right move at this juncture. If Fisher is right about Vince, all he'd do is validate his assessment and improve his draft pick. While I think Fisher's a heck of a coach, he's not good enough to be irrational on a topic like this. He's setting the future of the franchise back (whether it's with or without Vince, pending Vince's performance) for seemingly his own personal agenda.
If you enjoy the NFL...then you owe gratitude to Bud, not ridicule. He was a cornerstone in building this NFL. Not sure I'd label him as clueless. Hey, maybe he wants to win one before he dies and he knows it's not happening with Fisher.Another clueless old fart owner.![]()